Fermanagh v Armagh Brewster Pk Sat 19th May 7:00pm

[Maroon Manc]

In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice.  The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are.  Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left. 

Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist.  Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.

Majority of those Armagh people witnessed an era where they won 7 out of 10 Ulsters Championships so naturally there's a bit of expectancy in the County. I don't think anyone thinks they should be challenging for AI's but you'd think they'd have managed to win at least one game in the province in the last 4 years. Its not good enough for a manager in his 4th year.

[BennyCake]

Would i be right in saying yesterday was the first in a long time that no Crossmaglen men lined out for Armagh...Not sure about dates as i know there was something in the paper about this a few weeks back, think it was mid 90's

First time in 22 years apparently

[BennyCake]

Firstly, congrats to Fermanagh on their win and the deserved it thoroughly...Armagh were pathetic and got what they deserved.
Secondly, the ticket prices were a joke. I paid £24 to sit on the most uncomfortable D Rail timber fence ever...fecking joke.

I paid £30 in o'neills the morning of the game 

Brewster seats are the most uncomfortable I've ever sat on.

Next to that is Tralee. No backs on the seats. Them tight Kerry hoors

[twohands!!!]

What happened to Orchard's Spartan approach?

It is 22 years since Armagh selected a Championship panel that did not include a single Crossmaglen Rangers man. That came about because of an injury to corner-back Paul Hughes, but still you imagine that the county team could have been doing with the likes of Rian and Oisín O'Neill, James Morgan, and even the New York domiciled Jamie Clarke.

Fifteen to twenty years ago, what made Armagh great under Kieran McGeeney's captaincy was their Spartan approach. They went to a pre-Championship training camp but stayed in local digs, some sleeping on camp beds. They went to the salubrious Brown's Complex in Vilamoura at the end of April to prepare for this game, while Fermanagh stayed at the local Lough Erne Golf Resort, and trained in Brewster Park, examining the dimensions of the pitch and fine-tuning their gameplan. You have to ask yourself, which county made the most of their resources? One final line, added value and all that; Fermanagh had five sets of brothers in their panel.

Declan Bogue

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/talking-points-tipperary-supporters-have-to-make-do-with-the-sound-of-silence-from-top-table-470917.html

[armaghniac]

In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice.  The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are.  Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left. 

Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist.  Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.

Even if you accept that Armagh should be bracketed with Fermanagh, a county one third our size, then they should give them a proper game.

[LCohen]

In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice.  The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are.  Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left. 

Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist.  Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.

Majority of those Armagh people witnessed an era where they won 7 out of 10 Ulsters Championships so naturally there's a bit of expectancy in the County. I don't think anyone thinks they should be challenging for AI's but you'd think they'd have managed to win at least one game in the province in the last 4 years. Its not good enough for a manager in his 4th year.

Expectation can be out of sync. There is a bit of that in Armagh as there is everywhere else. But you can not get away from the fact that Armagh currently fall short of reasonable expectation. We don't have the players to win an AI semi final or an Ulster title. We are quite a bit short of those levels on player potential alone. We have been to 2 AI q/fs recently. Rode our luck getting there last year but got there all the same. We (when the playing talent produced by the county is available) have the players to get there again. Some years we will deliver on that and some years we won't. That's sport. That's life.

But current performance levels fall short of this by some considerable degree and those performances contained issues that can't be explained by a shrug of the shoulders and " shur we don't have the players". Look at our tactics time and time again. How can anybody argue that the team that takes the field are properly prepared (i.e. That what they are practicing in training is preparing them for what happens in games) or that our set up and methods makes our best players and especially forwards want to stick at it?

[Ethan Tremblay]

Yes they did win 7 out of 10 but the last time Armagh won Ulster title was ten years ago, a decade, more than enough time for the hype to subside and for realism to bed in.  The days of Armagh having to compete with Tyrone only in Ulster matches are long over. 

League football aside, Armagh are in the bottom tier of Ulster Knockout football, they have been for years. 

Simple question, ask yourself what teams Armagh should be beating in Ulster? I can name 3 that I feel Armagh could beat at the moment, and 1 of them beat us yesterday.   

[trailer]

Armagh can talk tactics, Jamie Clarke, Crossmaglen and this 'we don't have the players' all they like, but the fact remains that if you can't pass the ball to a teammate (a skill coached from at u10 level) then you're going to find Senior championship football very tricky. Time and again Armagh (and to a lesser extent Fermanagh) gave the ball away. Compare this with Monaghan & Tyrone. Both sides gave possession the respect it deserves and rarely (if at all) kicked the ball away. Each turnover was hard won.

Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.

[naka]

Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.
[/quote]
I watched Monaghan give a master class in piercing a massed defence, for two years Armagh have been clearly aware of the tactics which the opposition would have going into the game but made no tactical variations to deal with this.
we can talk about basic skills etc but
we played two defenders and a mid fielder in the half forward line. we brought on two subs in the second half who have barely played 20 minutes county football in 2 years.
I am all for coaching basics but we are chopping and changing players every match.
out of last years panel,
Heffron, Morgan, Clarke, Campbell,ONeill,Hughes, McVerry  off the top of my head
that's some turnover for whatever reason.
I watched Fermanagh and they have a consistency in players as do Monaghan as do Tyrone.
we don`t and until we do keep players on board we aren't going anywhere  , players need to know their position and what their role is in the system.
for me the buck starts and end with the manager and we can`t say he has been dealt a horrendous hand given that in three years we played, Cavan, Down and Fermanagh losing all three handily enough.

[trailer]

Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.

I watched Monaghan give a master class in piercing a massed defence, for two years Armagh have been clearly aware of the tactics which the opposition would have going into the game but made no tactical variations to deal with this.
we can talk about basic skills etc but
we played two defenders and a mid fielder in the half forward line. we brought on two subs in the second half who have barely played 20 minutes county football in 2 years.
I am all for coaching basics but we are chopping and changing players every match.
out of last years panel,
Heffron, Morgan, Clarke, Campbell,ONeill,Hughes, McVerry  off the top of my head
that's some turnover for whatever reason.
I watched Fermanagh and they have a consistency in players as do Monaghan as do Tyrone.
we don`t and until we do keep players on board we aren't going anywhere  , players need to know their position and what their role is in the system.
for me the buck starts and end with the manager and we can`t say he has been dealt a horrendous hand given that in three years we played, Cavan, Down and Fermanagh losing all three handily enough.
[/quote]

That's a fair point and makes things difficult but they still need to be able to pass to one another.

[naka]

Trailer, if guys are used to playing with each other in a clearly defined systempassing is easy, you know the runs, you can anticipate movement etc,when teams chop and change a player can look ponderous as he can't work out when the runner is making the dash, players aren't where they should be etc.

When Armagh were successful the team barely changed and the diagonal ball was the key before the defensive system got into place, it looked easy but it took years to perfect as the two Brian's started it in the late 90s.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Wonder how much it cost to take everyone away to a "training camp" in Portugal?

Money well spent? Or would that have been better spent on buying a rake of size 4 footballs for primary schools and clubs?

You gotta wonder just where the thought trains are taking people these days.


Its the same sh!te in at least 3 counties in Ulster at the moment; the worst 3 counties at that.

[yellowcard]

Overtrained and mentally drained. That is how I would summarise Armagh after Saturdays performance. Paralysis by analysis and players pre programmed to think too much about the match. McGeeney has to take responsibility as he picks and prepares the team. It was a huge let down and I think the players although a dedicated bunch are just not good enough at the minute. Depending on the draw they might win a game or two in the qualifiers but it iwill be only masking over the problems. The time is now right for change after 4 years and given the money that has been spent preparing this team. 

[Insane Bolt]

Just got a chance to watch game......Armagh were extremely poor and whilst management have to accept the responsibility for the system they choose to play, I feel that when you are county standard you should be able to adapt to a changing game....Armagh clearly didn't. I think they over complicate things....football isn't rocket science....get the ball in to danger areas as quickly as possible. Armagh 5 points down with 5 mins left and they have two forwards in Fermanagh half....you have to ask why?
Well done Fermanagh......think they kept the game simple and deserved the win. If the shackles come off Armagh may do well in qualifiers.

[Armamike]

Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.

I watched Monaghan give a master class in piercing a massed defence, for two years Armagh have been clearly aware of the tactics which the opposition would have going into the game but made no tactical variations to deal with this.
we can talk about basic skills etc but
we played two defenders and a mid fielder in the half forward line. we brought on two subs in the second half who have barely played 20 minutes county football in 2 years.
I am all for coaching basics but we are chopping and changing players every match.
out of last years panel,
Heffron, Morgan, Clarke, Campbell,ONeill,Hughes, McVerry  off the top of my head
that's some turnover for whatever reason.
I watched Fermanagh and they have a consistency in players as do Monaghan as do Tyrone.
we don`t and until we do keep players on board we aren't going anywhere  , players need to know their position and what their role is in the system.
for me the buck starts and end with the manager and we can`t say he has been dealt a horrendous hand given that in three years we played, Cavan, Down and Fermanagh losing all three handily enough.
[/quote]

Would agree with this. For too many years now there's been no sense of a team being built. We should be seeing a nucleus of players, with a couple of new additions every year. This used to be the way.  Players played in a settled position/role within the team year after year.  How can there be consistency and improvement when there's a constant change in personnel and positions that players take up? 

We're not blessed with quality forwards but that can't justify the lack of intensity, poor tackling, lack of indiscipline etc.  Fundamentals that should be drilled into a team regardless of the personnel. 

Unfortunately Kieran has had time and resources and it hasn't worked out.  Regardless of what we may do in the qualifiers, the barometer is the Ulster championship and no wins in 4 years is a damning statistic and there can be no excuses.  In my lifetime of following Armagh i can't think of a scenario where we didn't win a championship game for so long under the same manager. Kieran can't be blamed for all the ills of Armagh football - there are bigger issues around lack of success and player development at underage - but how can he get the players to buy into him any longer. It hasn't worked and the players will know that.