Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Dragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic?  Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.

Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me

Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.

Find many people here disputing that, do you?

no they justed accepted 75 years of it, and trot out moral high ground arguments... conflicts/wars are a failure of the international communities  (generally) and in this case its unwillingness to address israel and Israelis apartheid and murdering regimes. Israel bares all responsible for the reactions of the palestinans to resist and free themselves from their occupiers.

[Itchy]

Dragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic?  Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.

Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me

Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.

Find many people here disputing that, do you?

Yeh there's a lot of "that's terrible" people who think it's wrong for the oppressed to resist. But the "that's terrible" brigade do f**k all and are mostly useless gombeens in my opinion.

[seafoid]

Dragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic?  Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.

Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me

Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.

Find many people here disputing that, do you?

no they justed accepted 75 years of it, and trot out moral high ground arguments... conflicts/wars are a failure of the international communities  (generally) and in this case its unwillingness to address israel and Israelis apartheid and murdering regimes. Israel bares all responsible for the reactions of the palestinans to resist and free themselves from their occupiers.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article/.premium/a-failure-of-all-systems-with-political-shock-waves-like-73/0000018b-0c06-dae3-a1cb-bd0f3be90000
The failure of Israel's intelligence and poor preparedness weren't the only problems – it seems that Israel's operational defensive conception in Gaza has shattered

The closest Irish comparison might be 1798

[gallsman]

You think anyone on the board is 75 years old? Or have you just lost the run of yourself and are ranting in general and are incapable of following the structure of the ongoing debate.

When you argue that "Israel bares (sic) all responsibility", have you considered what exactly you're referring to? The government? The entire state? Individual citizens. Do murdered/kidnapped women and children bear responsibility for it simply by being Israeli? An inability to condemn atrocity, regardless of origin doesn't weaken an argument. It doesn't mean you're comparing one side with the other, or "both sides-ing" things. Hence my Kingsmill example. It was wrong. It shouldn't have happened. There was no justification for it whatsoever.

[gallsman]

Dragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic?  Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.

Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me

Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.

Find many people here disputing that, do you?

Yeh there's a lot of "that's terrible" people who think it's wrong for the oppressed to resist. But the "that's terrible" brigade do f**k all and are mostly useless gombeens in my opinion.

Out leading the intifada yourself, are you?

Sure you don't need to worry about the Palestinians in the long run. Gerry Carroll and a few similar, to use your word, gombeens can fire up a few supportive tweets and fix the whole thing.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

You think anyone on the board is 75 years old? Or have you just lost the run of yourself and are ranting in general and are incapable of following the structure of the ongoing debate.

When you argue that "Israel bares (sic) all responsibility", have you considered what exactly you're referring to? The government? The entire state? Individual citizens. Do murdered/kidnapped women and children bear responsibility for it simply by being Israeli? An inability to condemn atrocity, regardless of origin doesn't weaken an argument. It doesn't mean you're comparing one side with the other, or "both sides-ing" things. Hence my Kingsmill example. It was wrong. It shouldn't have happened. There was no justification for it whatsoever.

you don't have to be 75 years old to condemn 75 years of ethic cleanings you condescending dope.. maybe you need some help with comprehension.

I am not going to get bogged down in what Israeli actually means to me (but its not a throw away comment) its a distraction to avoid dealing with what Israel and its supporters do.

there is an inability to see where atrocities originate from some.

as I said in all conflicts there are unsavory outcomes, awful inhumane outcomes this is the unfortunate reality but I won't condemn an occupied people resisting their occupier ( that does not mean I support all individual actions). no conflict is without these events.

[seafoid]

You think anyone on the board is 75 years old? Or have you just lost the run of yourself and are ranting in general and are incapable of following the structure of the ongoing debate.

When you argue that "Israel bares (sic) all responsibility", have you considered what exactly you're referring to? The government? The entire state? Individual citizens. Do murdered/kidnapped women and children bear responsibility for it simply by being Israeli? An inability to condemn atrocity, regardless of origin doesn't weaken an argument. It doesn't mean you're comparing one side with the other, or "both sides-ing" things. Hence my Kingsmill example. It was wrong. It shouldn't have happened. There was no justification for it whatsoever.

You can't compare something in the EU to the Middle East. Jesus Christ
The Palestinians are treated as Untermenschen by Israel. Israel has weaknesses which were exposed yesterday.
Israel is not going to stop the occupation voluntarily any more than RUC officers with their juicy overtime were going to stop the war in the North.
Hegemony is always challenged. That is the way of the world.

[gallsman]

Think you broke your record for the time it took you to contradict yourself in that post. Congrats.

[seafoid]

Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian
·
1h
Channel 13 news puts the death toll in Israel from the Hamas attack at 600


That never happened in the North, no matter how bad things got .

[gallsman]

And as for your "you can't compare" nonsense, of course you can. Murder of innocents is murder of innocents wherever you are.

The fact you, ironically given your use of "untermenschen", have proved time and time again don't value an Israeli life should tell anyone who is somehow yet to figure it out just what a despicable cretin you are. And a boring bastard to boot. Maybe you can discuss Scarlett Johansson's menstrual activities again?

[red hander]

Was Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?

Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.

Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.

Dunno why you're bringing a notorious royal paedo who got his kicks out of dressing little boys up as little girls and raping them into it. And it's not Red Hand (sic).

[seafoid]

And as for your "you can't compare" nonsense, of course you can. Murder of innocents is murder of innocents wherever you are.

The fact you, ironically given your use of "untermenschen", have proved time and time again don't value an Israeli life should tell anyone who is somehow yet to figure it out just what a despicable cretin you are. And a boring bastard to boot. Maybe you can discuss Scarlett Johansson's menstrual activities again?

You can't compare the scale of the loss of life or the systematic cruelty.
If Israel had been running the North you would have been born in an internment centre and you wouldn't have any hospitals and food would be severely restricted.


You know SFA about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Murder of innocents is abhorrent but Israel bombs the shit out of Gaza every 2 years and murders Palestinian civilians indiscriminately in the process. It's called mowing the lawn in Hebrew.  Is that acceptable?
There is no point in talking to Palestinians about murdering civilians when the the death toll ratio is 20:1 

Hamas want Palestinians to be able to live in dignity. Israel does not want that. That is how apartheid works. It was like that in Ireland for centuries.
Israel will eventually be forced to come to its senses but until it does a lot of people will die pointlessly.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

actually murder of innocence in Palestine by Israel is tolerated and accepted by Israelis and the int community time and time again so the reaction is very different. Its not even referred to as murder, palestinians just magically die, no context.

the outcome of occupying and oppressing people is always going to be a violent outburst, if the int community and Israel wanted a different outcome it had 75 years to correct the injustice of the nakba.

[seafoid]

https://bdsmovement.net/news/on-violence-clashes-between-palestinians-and-apartheid-israel

Most mainstream media outlets are parroting apartheid Israel's propaganda morally equating the violence of the nuclear-powered oppressor with the resistance of the oppressed. In a typically colonial inversion of the truth, they whitewash the violence of apartheid Israel as "violent clashes" between the "two sides."

Here are 3 key points to remember in your reporting or when refuting this myth:

As Brazilian educator and philosopher Paulo Freire says,

"With the establishment of a relationship of oppression, violence has already begun. Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed. How could they be the initiators, if they themselves are the result of violence? ... There would be no oppressed had there been no prior situation of violence to establish their subjugation. Violence is initiated by those who oppress, who exploit, who fail to recognize others as persons—not by those who are oppressed, exploited, and unrecognized."

Since oppression is the root cause of violence, to end all violence -- that of the oppressor and that of the oppressed -- we must act to end oppression. Exposing and ending complicity in Israel's regime of apartheid, settler-colonialism and military occupation are the most ethical and strategic forms of intervention to end oppression and violence.

Those, like the U.S. administration and the EU, who are not just silent in the face of Israeli apartheid oppression, but are deeply implicated in enabling it through trade, military-security cooperation, and shielding it from accountability, have no moral standing to lecture the oppressed Palestinians on our resistance to oppression. They are partners in crime, pure and simple.

[Itchy]

Dragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic?  Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.

Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me

Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.

Find many people here disputing that, do you?

Yeh there's a lot of "that's terrible" people who think it's wrong for the oppressed to resist. But the "that's terrible" brigade do f**k all and are mostly useless gombeens in my opinion.

Out leading the intifada yourself, are you?

Sure you don't need to worry about the Palestinians in the long run. Gerry Carroll and a few similar, to use your word, gombeens can fire up a few supportive tweets and fix the whole thing.

And what do heroes like you do, go around condemning making sure to be even handed in your condemning. Then lecture others on same. Is that it?