Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[ziggy90]

Great speech by Clinton.

To use the modern parlance he absolutely nailed it.  The man is a master.

Just watched that on YouTube. Wonderful, heartfelt too I'd say.

[Owen Brannigan]

A very good article by Ed Moloney that is apart from those of many writers this week and backed by his detail from years of research.

A long read but worth every word as it shows how the media need to simplify and compartmentalise has produced their conclusions to their analysis of the life of Martin McGuinness.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ed-moloney-he-was-savagely-cruel-but-only-mcguinness-could-end-the-terror-1-7884440

[vallankumous]

A very good article by Ed Moloney that is apart from those of many writers this week and backed by his detail from years of research.

A long read but worth every word as it shows how the media need to simplify and compartmentalise has produced their conclusions to their analysis of the life of Martin McGuinness.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ed-moloney-he-was-savagely-cruel-but-only-mcguinness-could-end-the-terror-1-7884440

Regardless of your recommendation I will not read Ed Moloney.
If you summarize it and it looks good I will but I'll need to be persuaded.

[grounded]

It is extremely sickening to hear the likes of that horrible aul bitter west brit Ruth Dudley Edwards on Newsnight last night and on Nolan this morning blatantly denying that Catholics were even remotely oppressed or terrorised in the old Stormont or indeed during the troubles ...  She is a unionist and continuously spouts the usual lies that the British & Unionists were whiter than white and it was all the nationalists/Catholics fault...

One of my earliest memories was being a very young child and being woken up by a British Soldier standing there with a rifle in his hand ... I come from a large Catholic family, who were NEVER involved in anything, but because we were a large Catholic family we were fair game to be raided on several occasions .. and we were .. 3 in my memory .. Lets just say it was never a pleasant experience..

And as for Tebit, well he's really not worth thinking about as he will continue to stew in his own bile .. for years to come hopefully..

But youse lads are right, only for having parents that shepherded you away from getting involved there would have been a lot more people involved..  but its very easy to see how many people did..

Reading back through the experiences of so many of the posters on here brings the memories of growing up in the late 70's and 80's all back again. Things at that time that seemed like ' normal ' everyday occurrences would be completely bewildering and terrifying to kids growing up now and thank God for that.
            We lived in a small rural housing estate in South Down. I wouldn't say it was a particularly republican area but definitely nationalist. A very vivid memory of mine is when we as a child of about 5 or 6, my brother and myself took our dog for a walk up to a hilly area above the estate. It was a wee jack russell and it raced away ahead of me up the hill barking away at something which we thought was a rabbit. When we reached the top of the hill we literally walked on top of a group of camouflaged troops with telescopic camera lens etc(they were obviously observing the estate). Our arrival had obviously blown their cover. The wee dog wouldn't stop barking so one particular get laced his boot into it which broke it's neck. The others questioned us for some time about ' who had sent us up the hill to check ' . After that, they pointed their guns at us and told us to run back down the hill and home. By the time we got home we were both hysterical. We were advised to go to the police but da didn't want any trouble so it was left at that.

[randomusername]

A very good article by Ed Moloney that is apart from those of many writers this week and backed by his detail from years of research.

A long read but worth every word as it shows how the media need to simplify and compartmentalise has produced their conclusions to their analysis of the life of Martin McGuinness.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ed-moloney-he-was-savagely-cruel-but-only-mcguinness-could-end-the-terror-1-7884440

Regardless of your recommendation I will not read Ed Moloney.
If you summarize it and it looks good I will but I'll need to be persuaded.

Can understand why republicans dislike Ed Moloney but he probably knows as much about the IRA as anyone outside the organisation.

On The View the other day Dennis Bradley was visibly angry at Gregory Campbell, who had reeled off a list of incidents like the 1990 proxy bombing at Coshquin. Bradley said "the IRA were cell-based" - letting McGuinness off the hook, effectively. Like Moloney, I highly doubt McGuinness didn't have a clue about major IRA operations like that considering he was head of Northern Command and a member of the Army Council for many, many years.

[Owen Brannigan]

Can understand why republicans dislike Ed Moloney but he probably knows as much about the IRA as anyone outside the organisation.

He probably knows more about the organisation's activities than many members did as he has been able to find bring together so many sources who were willing to give him information about what was happening.  It is galling for many not only that Maloney has published so much detail on events but that members were willing to tell all to him and his researchers. He has brought much unpalatable information to public knowledge.

[T Fearon]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

[randomusername]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

This lad I presume

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/landmark-action-as-families-to-sue-loyalist-church-deacon-and-the-state-over-murder-of-their-loved-ones-31464335.html

[Windmill abu]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

This lad I presume

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/landmark-action-as-families-to-sue-loyalist-church-deacon-and-the-state-over-murder-of-their-loved-ones-31464335.html

Christian religions, they abuse and murder the innocent. But as long as they don't do it in the name of Republicanism or Loyalism we should tolerate them.

If all the christian churches f**ked off we might have peace here.

[michaelg]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.  You cannot discount the heinous atrocities highlighted in Ed Moloney's article.

[Windmill abu]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.

Ian Paisley: In quotes
12 September 2014
From the section Northern Ireland
"They breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin" - talking about Catholics at a loyalist rally in 1969.
"Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners" - at a loyalist rally in 1968 following attacks on Catholic homes.
"Save Ulster from sodomy!" - his slogan in a 1970s and 80s campaign against legalising homosexuality.
"I am not going to sit down with bloodthirsty monsters who have been killing and terrifying my people" - opposing demands to sit down and talk with Sinn Féin.
"The scarlet woman of Rome" - his description of Pope John Paul.
"I don't like the president of the Irish Republic because she is dishonest" - his description of the then Irish president Mary McAleese.
"Mr Adams would have to repent from his evil ways. I am here tonight by the grace of God, a sinner saved by grace" - New York, 1994, when asked if he would shake Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams's hand.
"Talk about dancing at Christmas on the graves of Ulster dead, and to be given the facility so to dance by the British prime minister... Here we saw the godfathers of those who planned the bombing of Downing Street, standing outside there and piously pretending they were engaged in a search for peace" - reacting to the Downing Street meeting of Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams and then prime minister Tony Blair in December 1997.
"I denounce you, Anti-Christ! I refuse you as Christ's enemy and Antichrist with all your false doctrine" - addressing Pope John Paul II on a visit to the European Parliament October 1988.
"This Romish man of sin is now in hell! - on the death of Pope John XXIII.
"The IRA's bishop from Crossmaglen" - describing the then head of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Tomas Ó Fiaich.
"No surrender. We will never bend the knee" - a regular cry aimed at those he believed were ready to "betray" Northern Ireland.
"Protect us from the shackles of priest-craft" - late 1970s in an attack on the Roman Catholic church.

While Big Ian may not have murdered anyone, he definately made catholics legitamte targets by his preachings. Quotes supplied by the B.B.C.

Please let me know which of the above kept his hands clean.

[randomusername]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.

Ian Paisley: In quotes
12 September 2014
From the section Northern Ireland
"They breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin" - talking about Catholics at a loyalist rally in 1969.
"Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners" - at a loyalist rally in 1968 following attacks on Catholic homes.
"Save Ulster from sodomy!" - his slogan in a 1970s and 80s campaign against legalising homosexuality.
"I am not going to sit down with bloodthirsty monsters who have been killing and terrifying my people" - opposing demands to sit down and talk with Sinn Féin.
"The scarlet woman of Rome" - his description of Pope John Paul.
"I don't like the president of the Irish Republic because she is dishonest" - his description of the then Irish president Mary McAleese.
"Mr Adams would have to repent from his evil ways. I am here tonight by the grace of God, a sinner saved by grace" - New York, 1994, when asked if he would shake Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams's hand.
"Talk about dancing at Christmas on the graves of Ulster dead, and to be given the facility so to dance by the British prime minister... Here we saw the godfathers of those who planned the bombing of Downing Street, standing outside there and piously pretending they were engaged in a search for peace" - reacting to the Downing Street meeting of Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams and then prime minister Tony Blair in December 1997.
"I denounce you, Anti-Christ! I refuse you as Christ's enemy and Antichrist with all your false doctrine" - addressing Pope John Paul II on a visit to the European Parliament October 1988.
"This Romish man of sin is now in hell! - on the death of Pope John XXIII.
"The IRA's bishop from Crossmaglen" - describing the then head of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Tomas Ó Fiaich.
"No surrender. We will never bend the knee" - a regular cry aimed at those he believed were ready to "betray" Northern Ireland.
"Protect us from the shackles of priest-craft" - late 1970s in an attack on the Roman Catholic church.

While Big Ian may not have murdered anyone, he definately made catholics legitamte targets by his preachings. Quotes supplied by the B.B.C.

Please let me know which of the above kept his hands clean.

The guy was a lunatic. Money mad as well. Saw this tweet earlier, might turn out to be interesting:

"ST [Sunday Times] News: Ian Paisley left estate worth €744,000 to his wife when he died in 2014. Probate has interesting detail on a couple of properties"

[general_lee]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.  You cannot discount the heinous atrocities highlighted in Ed Moloney's article.

Who did McGuinness kill?

[imtommygunn]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.  You cannot discount the heinous atrocities highlighted in Ed Moloney's article.

Paisley incited a lot though and as far as many are concerned has a lot of blood on his hands too. You may not think it is the same but many do - myself included.

[Tony Baloney]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.  You cannot discount the heinous atrocities highlighted in Ed Moloney's article.

Paisley incited a lot though and as far as many are concerned has a lot of blood on his hands too. You may not think it is the same but many do - myself included.

+1