Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football

Started by APM, October 02, 2018, 04:43:21 PM

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Itchy

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:15:13 AM
Not every manager is shouting against trying the new rules..

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/294047

Limerick football manager Billy Lee believes the proposed rule changes "deserve a chance".

While most other managers seem to be slamming the latest collection of experimental rules, Lee offered some support following his side's McGrath Cup semi-final defeat to Cork:

"I think they are worth looking at. I know a lot of people are anti these experimental rules, but it depends on the style of football your team play. If you play a running game, you are going to be against them," he told The Irish Examiner.

"Against Cork, we didn't see any black cards. The kick-out is only being taken seven metres further out and how many sideline kicks would you normally have in a game? The three-handpass rule, I've no problem with that.

"These rules deserve a chance. At least we are trying to improve the quality of the product. Every manager is going to worry about his own county and that's absolutely right. I haven't heard the referees giving out about anything and yet I see a lot of people talking about referees. Let's see how the rules unfold over a period of time."

Managers opinions shouldn't be considered*


*except those that agree with the new rules

No thats not the point, the point is that maybe not all managers are against them. I still don't think it should be their decision as they have a vested interest.

Itchy

Why is it in other sports there isnt anywhere near this much resistance to rule change. I remember when soccer changed the offside rule (not interfering with play), one which was a huge change in the game there was no where near this amount of complaining. What is it with GAA that means every change is resisted and constant negatives thrown out instead of just getting on with it?

Rossfan

Quote from: JoG2 on January 09, 2019, 11:39:57 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2019, 11:31:27 AM
Maybe kicking the ball is the problem so and needs to be fully eradicated 😀.
Anyway none of the trial rules do anything to restore the contests for possession that makes hurling such an exciting spectacle.
Maybe if "marks" had to be an overhead catch instead of a kick to a lads chest?

could you crouch, kneel, or even lay down on your back (head tilted up like your 15% into a sit up) with hands up over your head ?
???
When I was younger I could jump and catch a high ball over me headeen.
Mind you I couldn't do much with it after that ;D
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

trailer

Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:25:56 PM
Why is it in other sports there isnt anywhere near this much resistance to rule change. I remember when soccer changed the offside rule (not interfering with play), one which was a huge change in the game there was no where near this amount of complaining. What is it with GAA that means every change is resisted and constant negatives thrown out instead of just getting on with it?

Because they take a sensible approach. They know what they're doing. In the GAA they are bowing to media pressure, media types who only goal is to enhance their profile and do not have any interest in the betterment of the game. The hand pass rule being a good example of this ill thought out attempt at attempting to placate the media mob. 

thewobbler

I'm thinking it might worth the GAA's while creating an endowment scheme with one of our leading football universities.

In return for say €100k per annum, the university would host 6-8 evenings during the winter, where players would be briefed and drilled in potential rule changes, then play full games with one or more potential rule changes implemented, then players and coaches and assessors would complete research pieces about their feelings afterwards.

Each rule trial would enjoy its own short paper which ultimately outlines if the rule change would be considered a) unwelcome and unsuccessful, b) unwelcome but successful, c) welcome but unsuccessful, d) welcome and successful.

Anything in category a) is then ruled out for at least 3 years. Anything in category b) would need to improve to either c) or a d) within 2 further trials, or face a similar fate.


And no longer our county game the guinea pig.

Itchy

Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 01:13:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:25:56 PM
Why is it in other sports there isnt anywhere near this much resistance to rule change. I remember when soccer changed the offside rule (not interfering with play), one which was a huge change in the game there was no where near this amount of complaining. What is it with GAA that means every change is resisted and constant negatives thrown out instead of just getting on with it?

Because they take a sensible approach. They know what they're doing. In the GAA they are bowing to media pressure, media types who only goal is to enhance their profile and do not have any interest in the betterment of the game. The hand pass rule being a good example of this ill thought out attempt at attempting to placate the media mob.

And you know that do you?

Have you ever said a positive thing in your life trailer, I dont recall reading one on here.

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:15:13 AM
Not every manager is shouting against trying the new rules..

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/294047

Limerick football manager Billy Lee believes the proposed rule changes "deserve a chance".

While most other managers seem to be slamming the latest collection of experimental rules, Lee offered some support following his side's McGrath Cup semi-final defeat to Cork:

"I think they are worth looking at. I know a lot of people are anti these experimental rules, but it depends on the style of football your team play. If you play a running game, you are going to be against them," he told The Irish Examiner.

"Against Cork, we didn't see any black cards. The kick-out is only being taken seven metres further out and how many sideline kicks would you normally have in a game? The three-handpass rule, I've no problem with that.

"These rules deserve a chance. At least we are trying to improve the quality of the product. Every manager is going to worry about his own county and that's absolutely right. I haven't heard the referees giving out about anything and yet I see a lot of people talking about referees. Let's see how the rules unfold over a period of time."

Managers opinions shouldn't be considered*


*except those that agree with the new rules

No thats not the point, the point is that maybe not all managers are against them. I still don't think it should be their decision as they have a vested interest.

Surely we all have a vested interest in our sport?

To just discount managers opinions is completely ridiculous.
Certainly they have to be balanced alongside players / supporters etc, but they have a valuable input to give.
They will be the ones devising game plans to fully exploit or nullify the effects of any rule change so their views are key in getting something workable
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Itchy

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:15:13 AM
Not every manager is shouting against trying the new rules..

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/294047

Limerick football manager Billy Lee believes the proposed rule changes "deserve a chance".

While most other managers seem to be slamming the latest collection of experimental rules, Lee offered some support following his side's McGrath Cup semi-final defeat to Cork:

"I think they are worth looking at. I know a lot of people are anti these experimental rules, but it depends on the style of football your team play. If you play a running game, you are going to be against them," he told The Irish Examiner.

"Against Cork, we didn't see any black cards. The kick-out is only being taken seven metres further out and how many sideline kicks would you normally have in a game? The three-handpass rule, I've no problem with that.

"These rules deserve a chance. At least we are trying to improve the quality of the product. Every manager is going to worry about his own county and that's absolutely right. I haven't heard the referees giving out about anything and yet I see a lot of people talking about referees. Let's see how the rules unfold over a period of time."

Managers opinions shouldn't be considered*


*except those that agree with the new rules

No thats not the point, the point is that maybe not all managers are against them. I still don't think it should be their decision as they have a vested interest.

Surely we all have a vested interest in our sport?

To just discount managers opinions is completely ridiculous.
Certainly they have to be balanced alongside players / supporters etc, but they have a valuable input to give.
They will be the ones devising game plans to fully exploit or nullify the effects of any rule change so their views are key in getting something workable

I am not getting paid for results in the GAA while managers are. The majority of them are concerned that the new rules will put their game plans back and are not overly concerned with the state of the game for the supporter. Thats what I think and god help me Martin Brehony agrees with me...

Beware of the propaganda war
We are being openly bombarded by claims that limiting the handpass to three as part of the experimental rules is reducing goal chances.

Tales of flowing moves taking players into goal-scoring areas, only to be thwarted by not being allowed a fourth or fifth handpass are being peddled so loudly that those of a suspicious disposition might get the whiff of collusion.

After all, if the new rules can be portrayed as evil goal-killers, it will greatly strengthen the case for those who want them scrapped before the start of the Allianz League.

Hopefully, the transparent stunt will be seen for what it really is: an attempt to spark a panic reaction based on a small number of games with below-strength teams.

If the handpass experiment is to be meaningful, it must be retained for the 116-match league programme, after which a fully informed  analysis of its impact can be made. This is no time to bow to managers and their vested interests.

JoG2

Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:15:13 AM
Not every manager is shouting against trying the new rules..

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/294047

Limerick football manager Billy Lee believes the proposed rule changes "deserve a chance".

While most other managers seem to be slamming the latest collection of experimental rules, Lee offered some support following his side's McGrath Cup semi-final defeat to Cork:

"I think they are worth looking at. I know a lot of people are anti these experimental rules, but it depends on the style of football your team play. If you play a running game, you are going to be against them," he told The Irish Examiner.

"Against Cork, we didn't see any black cards. The kick-out is only being taken seven metres further out and how many sideline kicks would you normally have in a game? The three-handpass rule, I've no problem with that.

"These rules deserve a chance. At least we are trying to improve the quality of the product. Every manager is going to worry about his own county and that's absolutely right. I haven't heard the referees giving out about anything and yet I see a lot of people talking about referees. Let's see how the rules unfold over a period of time."

Managers opinions shouldn't be considered*


*except those that agree with the new rules

No thats not the point, the point is that maybe not all managers are against them. I still don't think it should be their decision as they have a vested interest.

Surely we all have a vested interest in our sport?

To just discount managers opinions is completely ridiculous.
Certainly they have to be balanced alongside players / supporters etc, but they have a valuable input to give.
They will be the ones devising game plans to fully exploit or nullify the effects of any rule change so their views are key in getting something workable

I am not getting paid for results in the GAA while managers are. The majority of them are concerned that the new rules will put their game plans back and are not overly concerned with the state of the game for the supporter. Thats what I think and god help me Martin Brehony agrees with me...

Beware of the propaganda war
We are being openly bombarded by claims that limiting the handpass to three as part of the experimental rules is reducing goal chances.

Tales of flowing moves taking players into goal-scoring areas, only to be thwarted by not being allowed a fourth or fifth handpass are being peddled so loudly that those of a suspicious disposition might get the whiff of collusion.

After all, if the new rules can be portrayed as evil goal-killers, it will greatly strengthen the case for those who want them scrapped before the start of the Allianz League.

Hopefully, the transparent stunt will be seen for what it really is: an attempt to spark a panic reaction based on a small number of games with below-strength teams.

If the handpass experiment is to be meaningful, it must be retained for the 116-match league programme, after which a fully informed  analysis of its impact can be made. This is no time to bow to managers and their vested interests.

Eh?! The media, propaganda, inter county managers ! The bit in bold, it's the ordinary everyday supporter on here making up his or her mind on what they have seen to date, you know thinking for themselves. The 3 handpass rule is a complete an utter hames. There is not a hope in hell of it being retained for the league.

trailer

Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 01:51:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 09, 2019, 01:13:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:25:56 PM
Why is it in other sports there isnt anywhere near this much resistance to rule change. I remember when soccer changed the offside rule (not interfering with play), one which was a huge change in the game there was no where near this amount of complaining. What is it with GAA that means every change is resisted and constant negatives thrown out instead of just getting on with it?

Because they take a sensible approach. They know what they're doing. In the GAA they are bowing to media pressure, media types who only goal is to enhance their profile and do not have any interest in the betterment of the game. The hand pass rule being a good example of this ill thought out attempt at attempting to placate the media mob.

And you know that do you?

Have you ever said a positive thing in your life trailer, I dont recall reading one on here.

I'm positive that anyone who thinks these rules are a good idea is the f**king anti christ.

themac_23

Quote from: JoG2 on January 09, 2019, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 09, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 09, 2019, 08:15:13 AM
Not every manager is shouting against trying the new rules..

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/294047

Limerick football manager Billy Lee believes the proposed rule changes "deserve a chance".

While most other managers seem to be slamming the latest collection of experimental rules, Lee offered some support following his side's McGrath Cup semi-final defeat to Cork:

"I think they are worth looking at. I know a lot of people are anti these experimental rules, but it depends on the style of football your team play. If you play a running game, you are going to be against them," he told The Irish Examiner.

"Against Cork, we didn't see any black cards. The kick-out is only being taken seven metres further out and how many sideline kicks would you normally have in a game? The three-handpass rule, I've no problem with that.

"These rules deserve a chance. At least we are trying to improve the quality of the product. Every manager is going to worry about his own county and that's absolutely right. I haven't heard the referees giving out about anything and yet I see a lot of people talking about referees. Let's see how the rules unfold over a period of time."

Managers opinions shouldn't be considered*


*except those that agree with the new rules

No thats not the point, the point is that maybe not all managers are against them. I still don't think it should be their decision as they have a vested interest.

Surely we all have a vested interest in our sport?

To just discount managers opinions is completely ridiculous.
Certainly they have to be balanced alongside players / supporters etc, but they have a valuable input to give.
They will be the ones devising game plans to fully exploit or nullify the effects of any rule change so their views are key in getting something workable

I am not getting paid for results in the GAA while managers are. The majority of them are concerned that the new rules will put their game plans back and are not overly concerned with the state of the game for the supporter. Thats what I think and god help me Martin Brehony agrees with me...

Beware of the propaganda war
We are being openly bombarded by claims that limiting the handpass to three as part of the experimental rules is reducing goal chances.

Tales of flowing moves taking players into goal-scoring areas, only to be thwarted by not being allowed a fourth or fifth handpass are being peddled so loudly that those of a suspicious disposition might get the whiff of collusion.

After all, if the new rules can be portrayed as evil goal-killers, it will greatly strengthen the case for those who want them scrapped before the start of the Allianz League.

Hopefully, the transparent stunt will be seen for what it really is: an attempt to spark a panic reaction based on a small number of games with below-strength teams.

If the handpass experiment is to be meaningful, it must be retained for the 116-match league programme, after which a fully informed  analysis of its impact can be made. This is no time to bow to managers and their vested interests.

Eh?! The media, propaganda, inter county managers ! The bit in bold, it's the ordinary everyday supporter on here making up his or her mind on what they have seen to date, you know thinking for themselves. The 3 handpass rule is a complete an utter hames. There is not a hope in hell of it being retained for the league.

we hope thats the case, the way things are going i wouldnt be surprised

criostlinn

I find find it gas that managers like Rory Gallagher, Paddy Tally and Stephen Poacher are the ones so vocal about this,  and what is there complaint, wait for it. It is cutting out goal chances. Ya couldn't make this shit up. Managers who spend all preseason devising systems which results in all players behind the ball with the basic instruction to try and stop the other team scoring are complaining because a new rule stops the opposition team scoring.  Something don't add up. What is it they say. Doth protest too much

Throw ball

Had my first look at the new rules in a properly competitive match tonight in Armagh. The kick out and sideline didn't seem much different and I don't think there was an offensive mark. The sin bin may be easier on the player black carded but the team does suffer a bigger punishment. Sadly I am going to have to go with majority and say if the 3 hand pass rule makes it into a championship match in future referees lives are going to get even tougher. Cassidy missed a couple of 4 hand passes and on one of these Armagh scored a point - and they only won by a point. Imagine the controversy if that happened in a big championship game.

Blowitupref

Quote from: criostlinn on January 09, 2019, 09:36:44 PM
I find find it gas that managers like Rory Gallagher, Paddy Tally and Stephen Poacher are the ones so vocal about this,  and what is there complaint, wait for it. It is cutting out goal chances. Ya couldn't make this shit up. Managers who spend all preseason devising systems which results in all players behind the ball with the basic instruction to try and stop the other team scoring are complaining because a new rule stops the opposition team scoring.  Something don't add up. What is it they say. Doth protest too much

James Horan has been vocal also. Has called the new rules 'crazy'
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Itchy

Quote from: Throw ball on January 09, 2019, 11:33:33 PM
Had my first look at the new rules in a properly competitive match tonight in Armagh. The kick out and sideline didn't seem much different and I don't think there was an offensive mark. The sin bin may be easier on the player black carded but the team does suffer a bigger punishment. Sadly I am going to have to go with majority and say if the 3 hand pass rule makes it into a championship match in future referees lives are going to get even tougher. Cassidy missed a couple of 4 hand passes and on one of these Armagh scored a point - and they only won by a point. Imagine the controversy if that happened in a big championship game.

Like I said earlier, I would support the dropping of counting handpasses in the opposition half which would stop a lot of the controversy on scores.