The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[Doogie Browser]

I wonder about some of the clowns on here, any of you that think what Benitez said on Friday had any direct impact on yesterdays result or todays need to maybe follow a different sport. Do you think the United players were bouncing off the walls in the changing romms screaming "lets show that fat Spanish ****" ? It just does not work like that, teams at the top level and United in particular are highly self motivated for each game & especially for a game of todays magnitude, regardless of press conferences...........

I bet you they were and I also bet Fergie lead the choir.  You must have no insight into how sportsmen at the highest level work if you really believe that, anything that can be used for extra motivation will always be used by top class coaches regardless of the sport.  If they can find any small thing to squeeze a little more commitment or effort they will use it.  I do not expect Liverpool fans to admit Rafa fucked up as it is your duty to be loyal, but as someone who has no regard for Utd or Liverpool (as close to objective as I can), it was a massive PR own goal. Anyway I am off to Duffy's circus to join the rest of the clowns from here, maybe there might be a few Liverpool clowns there too though as they are bound to have red faces tonight.

[corn02]

Have to say Carragher on sky looked as sick as a parrot.     Wears his heart on his sleeve too much for punditry involving his own teams title challenge.  Fair play to him for turning up tho.

Jamie Redknapp giving him a consoling "I feel your pain" pat on the leg at the end was hilarious.

Agreed, but he is nota pundit so.... What odds are United now UTB?

A lot of games to be played yet, interesting times.

[corn02]

I wonder about some of the clowns on here, any of you that think what Benitez said on Friday had any direct impact on yesterdays result or todays need to maybe follow a different sport. Do you think the United players were bouncing off the walls in the changing romms screaming "lets show that fat Spanish ****" ? It just does not work like that, teams at the top level and United in particular are highly self motivated for each game & especially for a game of todays magnitude, regardless of press conferences...........

I bet you they were and I also bet Fergie lead the choir.  You must have no insight into how sportsmen at the highest level work if you really believe that, anything that can be used for extra motivation will always be used by top class coaches regardless of the sport.  If they can find any small thing to squeeze a little more commitment or effort they will use it.  I do not expect Liverpool fans to admit Rafa fucked up as it is your duty to be loyal, but as someone who has no regard for Utd or Liverpool (as close to objective as I can), it was a massive PR own goal. Anyway I am off to Duffy's circus to join the rest of the clowns from here, maybe there might be a few Liverpool clowns there too though as they are bound to have red faces tonight.

You on the ale?

Did Rafa's 'rant' make Chelsea defend like shit at a conrer etc,etc. By the way the move involving the disallowed goal was class, the Pool done that in a European match a few years back with Baros, ref stopped it too.

[The Real Laoislad]

Dire performance yesterday. Forget about the platitudes towards plucky Stoke and their hard work ethic etc etc. A team sitting at the top of the league with Liverpool's resources and ambitions should be beating the likes of Stoke, end of. The result was nearly a forgone conclusion before the first whistle was blew given Liverpool's line up for the game. That was the same formation and line up more or less as at the drawn game against Hull a couple of weeks back, with the same sort of huff and puff, toothless performance. Plain as day yesterday what way the game was heading, after the first 20 mins.  Very frustrating that the formation and personnel weren't changed at half time.  Just weren't able to get enough bodies into the box.  I wouldn't fancy Liverpool to win games against anyone with Kuyt up front on his own. Well done to Stoke for closing Gerard down. Ever since the Newcastle game i've been expecting teams to put a man marker on him.  It's really amazing that Liverpool have been able to top the table with players like Benayoun and Lucas about the place. How bad was Lucas? The likes of Babel coming on and running down cul de sacs doesn't inspire much either.

Well said I would agree with all of that,though some here think making a subsitution or changing the formation wasn't going to make any difference 

[corn02]

Dire performance yesterday. Forget about the platitudes towards plucky Stoke and their hard work ethic etc etc. A team sitting at the top of the league with Liverpool's resources and ambitions should be beating the likes of Stoke, end of. The result was nearly a forgone conclusion before the first whistle was blew given Liverpool's line up for the game. That was the same formation and line up more or less as at the drawn game against Hull a couple of weeks back, with the same sort of huff and puff, toothless performance. Plain as day yesterday what way the game was heading, after the first 20 mins.  Very frustrating that the formation and personnel weren't changed at half time.  Just weren't able to get enough bodies into the box.  I wouldn't fancy Liverpool to win games against anyone with Kuyt up front on his own. Well done to Stoke for closing Gerard down. Ever since the Newcastle game i've been expecting teams to put a man marker on him.  It's really amazing that Liverpool have been able to top the table with players like Benayoun and Lucas about the place. How bad was Lucas? The likes of Babel coming on and running down cul de sacs doesn't inspire much either.

Laoislad, just interested when you asked how Kuyt stayed on the field? What exaxtly did he do that was so bad, he was living off scraps and done ok with what he got and forced the keeper into a good save. Often he was on his own in the box against three big men when the ball was being lumped to him, we saw it from Torres too - if you dont have the support from Gerrard etc, it is a near impossible job.

As for Lucas, terrible performance, but was Mascherano much better? Alonso was the big loss yesterday.

Well said I would agree with all of that,though some here think making a subsitution or changing the formation wasn't going to make any difference 

[Armamike]

Personally speaking as a Liverpool supporter i cringed on Friday when i read about Benitez's comments on Ferguson.  I just thought he didn't need to do it. In recent years Wenger and Mourinho were quite good at putting him in his place with a one liner put down.  I can remember Dalglish and Ferguson going head to head in the late 80s. Ferguson would have a rant around some shite about visting teams never getting a decision at Anfield - Dalglish would just laugh it off and say that he was rambling or that his youngest kid talked more sense. That just wound Ferguson up more, and was the best way to respond to him IMO, i.e. don't waste any time or energy on the bollix.

[Armamike]

Corn - Kuyt's not quick enough or physically powerful enough to play that role on his own. The only player who can play that role for Liverpool is Torres. Gerard wasn't getting into the game at all, due to the lack of space. With Mascherano and Lucas having stinkers, it was disappointing that Benetiz didn't take the opportunity to switch things around, i.e. with one of those two coming off and Gerard dropping back. 

[corn02]

Corn - Kuyt's not quick enough or physically powerful enough to play that role on his own. The only player who can play that role for Liverpool is Torres. Gerard wasn't getting into the game at all, due to the lack of space. With Mascherano and Lucas having stinkers, it was disappointing that Benetiz didn't take the opportunity to switch things around, i.e. with one of those two coming off and Gerard dropping back. 

Yeah possibly, I am not suggesting Kuyt ahead of Torres by the way, he was proabbly not 100% to start and if you are not 100%, you won't start under Rafa.

Keane would have been lost last night against three men. Kuyt wins plenty of headers against defences and is quite strong but Keane would not have been. The derby is massive now, we blew a big chance yesterday.

[Doogie Browser]

Everton have lost a huge player in Fellaini for the derby, he gives them a massive physical presence, you could see how annoyed Moyes was when he got booked, I think he knew that his best chance to get a result next Monday was to go for the robust approach but he will be very light in the middle now particularly if he has to play Cahill up front again.

[slow corner back]

Is Anichibe not fit to start for everton, he is a bit clumsy but he puts himself about

[corn02]

A post off another forum, sums it up well for me and has a go at Rafa's selection too, we should all enjoy it then....


Answer me this. Is it possible for a team to play appallingly because their manager has told the truth about another manager a day earlier? Is it possible for a manager's words to cause Chelsea not to register a solitary strike on United's goal two days later? These must be some special words. More questions. Can it be described as a rant if he sat in a press conference reading from a piece of paper like a fifteen year old explaining his behaviour to his headmaster and parents? Hardly. It took just five minutes for Rooney to prove his accusations about referee favouritism in the Sunday game. Look at that footage and tell yourself Manchester United fully endorse the Respect campaign.

Let's look at the other side of the Rafa coin. Last season there was talk of the American intervention having a negative bearing on our campaign. I don't recall Bill and Ted coming into the dressing room and deciding that Voronin and Kuyt were the right players to lead the line in September much as I don't remember them ordering to rest the greatest striker in the world after the hardship and toil of three weeks of football.

My feelings towards Rafa tend to fall between worship and treading through oceans of confusion. As we were huddled into the concourse of the Britannia (it makes Woodison look like the Maracana) the team news was greeted with baffled expressions. Torres needs games and Keane needs to get his mind right after Preston so why play Dirk. Our two main strikers have a history of goals while the trying Dutchman has a history of right wing leg work. It transpires that Dirk was actually needed on the right as Yossi, still trapped in his act of being amazing or atrocious – never average, was lost in the first half and needed help. Eventually the game played out. It was everything I expected and less. Big hoofs into the box to disrupt our centre backs while we showed no cutting edge or endeavour. By the time Torres came on we were staring at a point as their tails were up and, as ever, we panicked. A poor selection, yes. A poor performance based on a press conference? Well, how could it be? Gerrard didn't hit the post twice because he was worried about the effect of his manager's words.

If there's a criticism to be levelled about the press conference it lies with its futility. The media's tale was all about who won the war and Fergie supposed laughing into his wine without any comment into the veracity of his claims. Whether they like to see the panto rather than discuss the issues is open to debate, albeit a useless one. Now the mind games are apparently won. 'Fergie says Liverpool are shit' – ooh, he's so subtle. 'Man U bully referrees' – Rafa's lost the plot!

Back to the football. The derbies are going to be huge and we're capable of taken them apart with the right performance and team. We've let United back in this weekend but we've got an opportunity to make it and Us and Them battle when Chelsea come in February. If it was a bad week for us then where does it leave Chelsea? Zero points against the top three teams and probably third by next week, that's where.

Finally: Hasn't the Gerrard story gone quiet over the last few days?

[Hound]

Its funny how Ferguson can say what he likes about any club, but any other manager says anything about United and its analysed in the media to the nth degree.

Rafa's comments were dead right and had zero bearing on either game.

I could somewhat understand Rafa's team selection bearing in mind a similar team/formation did so well against Newcastle. But when it clearly wasnt working how he didnt change it (particularly the midfield two, with Mascho being mediocre and Lucas being appalling) is beyond my comprehension. I hope it wasnt down to stubborness. Rafa's refusal to say it was 2 points dropped is absolutely the wrong mindset. Its filtering down to the players that drawing with Stoke is acceptable. Rafa's post match comments are cringeworthy in my opinion:

"It's not easy to find the space and to create many opportunities, so we have to be pleased we have one more point, we are still at the top of the table and in a great position."

[Goats Do Shave]

To play 2 holding midfielders v Stoke is scandelous, especially as he played no strikers!

Rafa for the chop!

Scousers don't enjoy squeaky bum time!

[Abble]

ANOTHER opportunity missed to go even further ahead. Alonso was a big miss on Saturday for sure. Although good to see Skrtel back and Torres getting some much needed game time also.

I think we are now coming close to the stage where you could say this weekend or that weekend can possibly decide things. Not sure when exactly that is going to be. Utd are catching with 2 games in hand, chelsea 4 behind - for the time being i'd be very happy to stay those 4 pts clear of chelsea...utd in all likelihood will take a 1 pt lead by this time next week, i just hope we can now get stronger and more clinical from here on and give utd a good battle to the end. we've always got stronger in the finishing months of the league in previous seasons so hopefully this trait continues.

[magpie seanie]

Its funny how Ferguson can say what he likes about any club, but any other manager says anything about United and its analysed in the media to the nth degree.

Rafa's comments were dead right and had zero bearing on either game.

I could somewhat understand Rafa's team selection bearing in mind a similar team/formation did so well against Newcastle. But when it clearly wasnt working how he didnt change it (particularly the midfield two, with Mascho being mediocre and Lucas being appalling) is beyond my comprehension. I hope it wasnt down to stubborness. Rafa's refusal to say it was 2 points dropped is absolutely the wrong mindset. Its filtering down to the players that drawing with Stoke is acceptable. Rafa's post match comments are cringeworthy in my opinion:

"It's not easy to find the space and to create many opportunities, so we have to be pleased we have one more point, we are still at the top of the table and in a great position."

Were they? Do you think referees favour Manchester United? Do you think Mr Bennett was wrong to send off Mascherano last season as was implied? I don't remember the handball incident against Wigan but Benitez clearly questioned Bennett's partiality yet he said Ferguson is the only one who can talk about fixtures and referees without being punished! As for the "zonal marking" comment well Sky's camera's showed that up yesterday too. The one about Fergie doing up the fixtures himself was real toys out of the pram stuff. His words were contradictory and just what he was trying to achieve I do not know. I agree that they had minimal if any effect on the outcome of either of the games. This "mind games" stuff is invented by the media to try and portray that they actually have a part in proceeding as opposed the the truth that they are mere observers.