Congress

[manfromdelmonte]

tried that for a few years, got nowhere.
club has been hit with a bill for the back money, as directed from Croke Park.

[Give and Go]

If there were a "corporate GAA" then it would mean that people are pocketing money as a result of any extra revenue that comes in. This is a bit of a serious allegation, it's completely unfounded, and it always comes from people who haven't a clue how the GAA works. After the bills are paid, every penny is reinvested in the association. The association is completely open about where the money is spent and publishes its accounts every year in its annual report which is available on the website.

Should criticism be allowed? Of course. But if it's completely off base and full of errors then it's okay for those errors to be pointed out. If you want to criticize the organization, get your facts straight if you don't want your arguments pulled apart.

I think other posters have answered
It was never suggested people were 'pocketing money'.
'Pocketing money' wouldn't describe  'Corporate'; it would describe theft.
There is no suggestion or innuendo in my post to that effect.

Corporate GAA refers to the direction the GAA is being taken in where it is chasing revenues at the expense of the grass roots. It's becoming more about 'income streams' and 'partners' than it is about what is core to the GAA, the local Club and Club players and competitions.

No need to twist my words.

How is it "at the expense of the grass roots" when so much of the income gets reinvested in the grass roots?

I think other posters have answered your question, I won't go back over it.
In relation to the benefits of coach education being rolled out to support clubs / schools, let me just that it doesn't work very well in many counties.
You see this is part of the numbers game too; it's an exercise in head counting to obtain Government funding - no of schools coached, in, no of participants in Cul camps etc.
The reality in many counties is that the county coaching structure is a disaster.
Often the coaches are current/ former players. Many of them are skilled enough to maximise the benefit of employing them, many of them see it as a handy number. There is no real accountability. I hear some horror stories of how schools coaching programmes are run...

[Line Ball]

100% G & G.  My wee lad used to have a now former County player in Down come in on a Monday for an hours 'coaching.' More often than not, he never appeared and when he did the standard of what he was doing was extremely basic and poor.  If there was a game on a Sunday, he wouldn't turn up on a Monday!!!! 

These coaching positions shouldn't be about jobs for the boys but getting the best people in positions to help the kids.

[manfromdelmonte]

I know of one county where the wife of the county secretary is doing schools coaching.

I kid you not.

[Eamonnca1]

I know of one county where the wife of the county secretary is doing schools coaching.

I kid you not.

Why would you be kidding? If she's a qualified coach then why wouldn't she be coaching?

[Line Ball]

Biggest issue from Congress is the motion for county minors not being available to their clubs until intercounty season is complete!
What about the small rural club who would rely heavily on their county minor for league results!
I'm in favour of not burning minors out and obv they shouldn't be playing every sen league game while still involved with intercounty but this blanket ban is ridiculous!!
Another decision voted on in favour of the county over club!
Voted for by the fat cats of cooperate gaa!!
Impact on small clubs, when emigration is hard anyway, could be significant!
Suppose why complain?
Why would that matter to the prawn sandwich eating brigade at congress!!!

I am amazed about this motion getting through.   Smaller clubs depend on younger players coming through, after all it is them who have developed them and not the county and then they can't play for their club.  For some clubs they may not have these players available to them until after the All Ireland Final in September.  That is nearly the whole season without players who fall into this category, that can't be fair for either player or club.  Its like saying senior intercounty players can't play for their clubs until the county is out of the Championship, not much difference.

[NP 76]

Line ball does this rule come into effect from now this year

[Line Ball]

No, from 2016 I believe.

[manfromdelmonte]

I know of one county where the wife of the county secretary is doing schools coaching.

I kid you not.

Why would you be kidding? If she's a qualified coach then why wouldn't she be coaching?

Cause she's crap at it.
Plus, others have applied for the same position and were unsuccessful

[Lone Shark]

Minor footballers and hurlers already play far too many games and clubs need to realise that for a variety of reasons, playing minors at adult level is not only not ideal, it's counter productive.

I'm well aware that there are a lot of clubs where a seventeen or eighteen year old might be one of their best fifteen players, indeed last year I was involved with a senior club where arguably an eighteen year old was Player of the Season at adult level. However it's a zero sum game - the same amount of games will be won and lost as always, and for every game you win thanks to you promising youngster one year, you'll lose to an equivalent player on another year.

Yes I know that there are some smaller clubs who are cut to the bone with numbers, but experience has taught me this - for every club that genuinely, honestly has mobilised every healthy young man aged between 19 and 38, there are ten clubs who will cry about "the numbers aren't there" but in truth there will be ten lads sitting on bar stools in the town while the match is on. When they say "the numbers aren't there" what they mean is that "the numbers of talented lads who require no work on our part aren't there".

Now maybe your club is the one in ten that literally has got every healthy young man down to the field and still can't make up fifteen, and if that's the case, then you need to amalgamate. That's nothing to do with minors, that's just simple maths, because it means that you're always one holiday, one family wedding, one illness or one injury away from giving a walkover - that's no way to be.

Like it or not, these lads are the ones for whom burnout is the biggest issue, and I don't doubt for a minute that there are other games that they should be cutting out as well. However in many cases these lads are playing football and hurling, playing championship with schools, county minor, and then playing minor club as well. If you're asking me should county minors be barred from playing club minor league and championship, then that's a completely different story - I don't agree with that at all. However in terms of the heirarchy of importance for a seventeen year old footballer or hurler, adult club league games are the lowest of the lot, and that's as it should be. Of course they should be cut out.

[manfromdelmonte]

Minor footballers and hurlers already play far too many games and clubs need to realise that for a variety of reasons, playing minors at adult level is not only not ideal, it's counter productive.

I'm well aware that there are a lot of clubs where a seventeen or eighteen year old might be one of their best fifteen players, indeed last year I was involved with a senior club where arguably an eighteen year old was Player of the Season at adult level. However it's a zero sum game - the same amount of games will be won and lost as always, and for every game you win thanks to you promising youngster one year, you'll lose to an equivalent player on another year.

Yes I know that there are some smaller clubs who are cut to the bone with numbers, but experience has taught me this - for every club that genuinely, honestly has mobilised every healthy young man aged between 19 and 38, there are ten clubs who will cry about "the numbers aren't there" but in truth there will be ten lads sitting on bar stools in the town while the match is on. When they say "the numbers aren't there" what they mean is that "the numbers of talented lads who require no work on our part aren't there".

Now maybe your club is the one in ten that literally has got every healthy young man down to the field and still can't make up fifteen, and if that's the case, then you need to amalgamate. That's nothing to do with minors, that's just simple maths, because it means that you're always one holiday, one family wedding, one illness or one injury away from giving a walkover - that's no way to be.

Like it or not, these lads are the ones for whom burnout is the biggest issue, and I don't doubt for a minute that there are other games that they should be cutting out as well. However in many cases these lads are playing football and hurling, playing championship with schools, county minor, and then playing minor club as well. If you're asking me should county minors be barred from playing club minor league and championship, then that's a completely different story - I don't agree with that at all. However in terms of the heirarchy of importance for a seventeen year old footballer or hurler, adult club league games are the lowest of the lot, and that's as it should be. Of course they should be cut out.

Might be the case with some clubs, but our minors are not on county panels and also none of them going to third level.
They get very few games at minor or U21.
I think 7 minor games last year, between league and championship.
A lot of them play soccer and rugby - regular games every weekend for 7/8 months, something the GAA doesn't give them.

[Benchwarmer]

Agree way last poster with regards to our minors up in Derry getting v few actual minor games so playing seniors gives them a decent number of football matches for the season!
In fact lone shark I think u have got this totally wrong!!!
Clubs produce these talented county minors then get punished cause they can't use them!!!
And as for this burnout nonsense
We have soccer players in our club who okay 30 games plus a year then their football matches on top of that
So a talented minor playing club senior is not the problem!
The issue is the county taking our talented minors, flogging them to death in pursuit of an all Ireland minor title! The average county minor will start in jan /feb with county and continue till they are put out of c'ship
This will take approx 6 months!!
How many games these lads get???
How many flogging sessions will they undertake?
Let the lads PLAY football!!!
Congress and "corporate gaa" don't give a flying f**k about the club scene!!
All about the county!
This is wrong!
The gaa was built round the parish, the club!
Pity the prawn sandwich brigade of our association have forgotten this as they continue to feather the nest of the county scene!!!!

[Lone Shark]

Might be the case with some clubs, but our minors are not on county panels and also none of them going to third level.
They get very few games at minor or U21.
I think 7 minor games last year, between league and championship.
A lot of them play soccer and rugby - regular games every weekend for 7/8 months, something the GAA doesn't give them.

If your minor league and championship gave them seven games, then that's the problem - it doesn't require more adult games to fix that. The guidance from Croke Park is that in dual counties, players should be guaranteed a minimum of 12 games in each code. In counties where one code is deemed stronger than the other, it's 16 in the stronger code and 8 in the other. Add in under-21 championship and school games and it's a rare player who would end the year with less than 20 matches, not including challenges. The average should be closer to thirty.

Put the blame where it lies - the county board that fails to provide these games, not the rules that preclude adult games from making up the gap (which by definition, would only be for the better young lads anyway since an eighteen year old struggling to make the minor team is not going to get a game at adult level)

[manfromdelmonte]

Might be the case with some clubs, but our minors are not on county panels and also none of them going to third level.
They get very few games at minor or U21.
I think 7 minor games last year, between league and championship.
A lot of them play soccer and rugby - regular games every weekend for 7/8 months, something the GAA doesn't give them.

If your minor league and championship gave them seven games, then that's the problem - it doesn't require more adult games to fix that. The guidance from Croke Park is that in dual counties, players should be guaranteed a minimum of 12 games in each code. In counties where one code is deemed stronger than the other, it's 16 in the stronger code and 8 in the other. Add in under-21 championship and school games and it's a rare player who would end the year with less than 20 matches, not including challenges. The average should be closer to thirty.

Put the blame where it lies - the county board that fails to provide these games, not the rules that preclude adult games from making up the gap (which by definition, would only be for the better young lads anyway since an eighteen year old struggling to make the minor team is not going to get a game at adult level)

Our minors received two walkovers as well last year, so they got 5 games AFAIK.
County boards don't give a flying mickey about small clubs

[Lone Shark]

Our minors received two walkovers as well last year, so they got 5 games AFAIK.
County boards don't give a flying mickey about small clubs

That's a disgrace, but that's not all county boards at all. Par for the course in Offaly would be 10 league and championship games in each code at minor level, not including knockout games. That's still a bit less than ideal, but it also proves that the problem is not necessarily county boards as much as it's your county board. Which is, by the way?

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the Congress motion is nothing to do with this issue. If your county board is failing minor players, then providing a handful of the better lads with games at adult level solves nothing, and creates different problems.