Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[sid waddell]

That is some reach Sid and I don't think you even believe it, it's really weak. The Tories have been a pretty standard centre-right parliamentary party, with standard centre-right policies enacted worldwide, until Brexit. I also think you're mixing long held Tory delusions of grandeur about just pretty much everything ever with the specific issue of Europe.

Also, half of the stuff you list, happened (or also happened)under Labour's watch. Cameron was Tory leader for 11 years, was as centrist as they come and a Blairite in all but name.

Believe what?

It's what happened

Not sure how you think Cameron was centrist, his party implemented massive austerity, but maybe he said it with a smile on his face, so that makes him centrist?

This is the sort of politics that drives massive wealth inequality and massive anger - the sort of thing that led to Brexit and Trump - and literally everybody in the Tory party was on board with it

And then Cameron surrendered to the really extreme loons - and there were a lot more of them than was thought, it was in their DNA - they believed in fantasy - but after decades of Murdoch media, well, that should not have been a surprise

20 years ago the Tories had already been been captured by the hard right of their party - the same Eurosceptic, hang 'em high loons who made life hell for Major - that's why William Hague and then Iain Duncan Smith were elected as leaders

40 years ago the Tories were trying to implement monetarism - an extreme hard right economic ideology which desired mass unemployment as a sort of Darwinian economic experiment that paid no heed to the real effects of this

The vicious wolf was never far away in that party, it occasionally dressed up in sheep's clothes

As Labour leader, Blair's number one objective was to get Murdoch media onside

You could argue it was a smart move to win elections but if you believe in politics as a force for diving positive change, not so much, because you're in hock to lunatics

Nevertheless, even the worst Labour government imaginable, and Blair's was pretty much it - is still always better than even the mildest Tory government - had the Tories been in power in the 2000s, the support for the Iraq War would have been even more slavish, and the financial even crash deeper than it was

Murdoch media has been the driver of the lunatics for decades

[sid waddell]

There is a curious phenomena that I've noticed more in recent times. Especially in the US, but not only in the US.
- People on the far right are very quick to paint everyone on the left as being on the far left.
- People on the far left are very quick to paint everyone on the right as being on the far right.

I don't think you see the irony of your post, but it should be obvious

This very much so. It's even apparent on this board too.

There seems to be no middle ground any more. One extreme or the other.

The middle ground between truth and lies, or sense and craziness, is not a good place to be at all

The so called "middle ground" is by itself a vacuous canard - it rejects evaluating things on their merits or demerits in favour of a vacuous and false framing of polar extremes, and then saying that "the truth must be somewhere in the middle"

It rejects critical thought

Like, what's the middle ground between anti-vaxxers and those who believe in science - and is it where you want to be? No, I don't think you want to be there

Anti-vaxxers are extreme, those who believe in science are not

[imtommygunn]

I don't mean with anti vaxxers. Anti vaxxers tend to be just full of it(if this thread is anything to go by).When you're talking about big pharma, money being made, process not being followed etc and you have no idea what you are talking about that is different from middle ground.

Beliefs in lockdown, corona virus itself, american politics views etc etc . Things like SDLP threads. All illustrative.

Maybe wrong thread to put that comment in mind you lol.

[JoG2]

I don't mean with anti vaxxers. Anti vaxxers tend to be just full of it(if this thread is anything to go by).When you're talking about big pharma, money being made, process not being followed etc and you have no idea what you are talking about that is different from middle ground.

Beliefs in lockdown, corona virus itself, american politics views etc etc . Things like SDLP threads. All illustrative.

Maybe wrong thread to put that comment in mind you lol.

Would there not be a fair difference between dyed in the wool anti-vaxers* and covid anti-vaxers?

* will be absolutely against the Covid vaccine too, goes without saying. They'll want the rest of us to protect them as per usual

I personally know 2 old school anti-vaxers, and by christ its one topic you wouldn't dare bring up, just not worth the stress and has been known to ruin an evening 

Covid-only anti-vaxers are a completely different breed, lead not by science but the medical experts in their WhatsApp groups and contacts on social media etc. That BBC link someone put up re the Oxford vaccine and the professors who have developed it is definitely worth a read for those who haven't yet.. Scientists have played an absolute blinder imo.

[imtommygunn]

You could be right but tbh I don't know an awful pile of them lol. The covid thing is just because it's topical - I don't know the views on MMR etc of these people. It's probably best we don't lol. They may or may not correlate.

Anything on social media I see which maybe would point towards covid anti vaxxers and anti vaxxers being different seems to correlate with a "reset" of society though thankfully I haven't seen anything as bad as that here. That is maybe the difference if there is one.

[LeoMc]

Saw a great description of them on Twitter, sheep following a different shepherd.

[sid waddell]

I don't mean with anti vaxxers. Anti vaxxers tend to be just full of it(if this thread is anything to go by).When you're talking about big pharma, money being made, process not being followed etc and you have no idea what you are talking about that is different from middle ground.

Beliefs in lockdown, corona virus itself, american politics views etc etc . Things like SDLP threads. All illustrative.

Maybe wrong thread to put that comment in mind you lol.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say:

"belief in lockdown" - I think literally nobody wants lockdown because they like lockdowns - or even because they think lockdown is the best way, by itself, to deal with the threat of Covid

People who think lockdowns are necessary, as I do, almost universally do so because they're the only remaining tool left in the absence of policy decisions which might have enabled a more sustainable way of coping with Covid

"belief in Coronavirus itself" - well, science tells us it is real and very dangerous - I'm not sure what the half way point is between those who "believe in Coronavirus" and those who "do not believe in Coronavirus", but whatever that half way point is, that "middle ground" is, it's obviously wrong, because this Coronavirus,  this Covid-19, exists, and it is a very serious problem for humanity that it does

"belief in American politics" - well, people can believe what they want to believe about American politics, but five years of candidate/president Trump tells us that anybody who believes Trump or believes in Trump is either a gullible fool or has abhorrent views

There isn't really a middle ground as regards Trump because to occupy a "middle ground" requires accepting racism, bigotry, rejection of science and rejection of truth - well, perhaps only half the time

[sid waddell]

You could be right but tbh I don't know an awful pile of them lol. The covid thing is just because it's topical - I don't know the views on MMR etc of these people. It's probably best we don't lol. They may or may not correlate.

Anything on social media I see which maybe would point towards covid anti vaxxers and anti vaxxers being different seems to correlate with a "reset" of society though thankfully I haven't seen anything as bad as that here. That is maybe the difference if there is one.

There used to be a poster "Seamus" who would post periodically and had some seriously crazy views, like Jim Corr on steroids

Another US based poster "Baile an Tuathaigh" had some hardcore anti-Semitic views if I remember rightly

"Iceman" was fairly out there too

Then there's the usual suspects, the Trumpists in the US politics thread

There's no need to be politically correct about them - they are racists, bigots and fantasists

[Seamus]

You could be right but tbh I don't know an awful pile of them lol. The covid thing is just because it's topical - I don't know the views on MMR etc of these people. It's probably best we don't lol. They may or may not correlate.

Anything on social media I see which maybe would point towards covid anti vaxxers and anti vaxxers being different seems to correlate with a "reset" of society though thankfully I haven't seen anything as bad as that here. That is maybe the difference if there is one.

There used to be a poster "Seamus" who would post periodically and had some seriously crazy views, like Jim Corr on steroids

Another US based poster "Baile an Tuathaigh" had some hardcore anti-Semitic views if I remember rightly

"Iceman" was fairly out there too

Then there's the usual suspects, the Trumpists in the US politics thread

There's no need to be politically correct about them - they are racists, bigots and fantasists

Sid, I notice you are still talking shite after all those years. Seeing that you are such a self proclaimed genius the following should come very easy to you.

A group of people came to John Jay Singleton and offered a $2,000,000 reward in gold for any person or any group that can prove that this COVID-19 was purified and isolated. The criteria is set forth on his website (hint: just because Fauci and Dr. Bill Gates says so does not count). Up since April 4th with no takers.

http://www.aceofcoins.com/corona-virus-gold-bounty/

So knock yourself out, get back to me when you have claimed your 2MM, otherwise STFU.

[armaghniac]

A group of people came to John Jay Singleton and offered a $2,000,000 reward in gold for any person or any group that can prove that this COVID-19 was purified and isolated. The criteria is set forth on his website (hint: just because Fauci and Dr. Bill Gates says so does not count). Up since April 4th with no takers.

http://www.aceofcoins.com/corona-virus-gold-bounty/

So knock yourself out, get back to me when you have claimed your 2MM, otherwise STFU.

This is a steaming load of elephant manure even by the standards of such things.
Perhaps someone would explain why some of the highest rates of Covid19 have been in places like Peru, which do not have 5G?

[sid waddell]

You could be right but tbh I don't know an awful pile of them lol. The covid thing is just because it's topical - I don't know the views on MMR etc of these people. It's probably best we don't lol. They may or may not correlate.

Anything on social media I see which maybe would point towards covid anti vaxxers and anti vaxxers being different seems to correlate with a "reset" of society though thankfully I haven't seen anything as bad as that here. That is maybe the difference if there is one.

There used to be a poster "Seamus" who would post periodically and had some seriously crazy views, like Jim Corr on steroids

Another US based poster "Baile an Tuathaigh" had some hardcore anti-Semitic views if I remember rightly

"Iceman" was fairly out there too

Then there's the usual suspects, the Trumpists in the US politics thread

There's no need to be politically correct about them - they are racists, bigots and fantasists

Sid, I notice you are still talking shite after all those years. Seeing that you are such a self proclaimed genius the following should come very easy to you.

A group of people came to John Jay Singleton and offered a $2,000,000 reward in gold for any person or any group that can prove that this COVID-19 was purified and isolated. The criteria is set forth on his website (hint: just because Fauci and Dr. Bill Gates says so does not count). Up since April 4th with no takers.

http://www.aceofcoins.com/corona-virus-gold-bounty/

So knock yourself out, get back to me when you have claimed your 2MM, otherwise STFU.

Where have I proclaimed myself a genius? I'm far from it! But thanks for your confidence in me

Very aggressive tone by the way, not very nice

[Hereiam]

So the north is being lined up to be the brits guinea pig for the vaccine, you can just hear ole Boris muttering the words "sure test it on the Irish, they are good for nothing else"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55087961

[Seaney]

They have their candidates here, milhouse, sid and frankie up first.

[LCohen]

So the north is being lined up to be the brits guinea pig for the vaccine, you can just hear ole Boris muttering the words "sure test it on the Irish, they are good for nothing else"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55087961

No harm to you but where are you getting the idea that NI is being used as a guinea pig?

I'm no fan of Boris but that Boris quote only exists in your head

[Seaney]

Looking good for the Oxford Vaccine - Milhouse and frankie still queuing with the sleeves rolled up?  Anyone who thinks that a vaccine that normally takes 5 to 10 years to produce safely can be produced in 10 months with all the same safety standards is deluded, but the narrative that they are out to save humanity on a anonymous forum with about 20 active members won't stop them from calling cautious folk cowards and trying to berate them.  I wonder would they all be advocating their elderly parents be first in the queue, because after all the believers here are way at the back of the queue!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/26/scrutiny-grows-over-oxford-universityastrazeneca-vaccine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55086927