China Coronavirus

[Milltown Row2]

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.

Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

[dublin7]

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.
[/quote]


That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid

[Angelo]

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.

Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

A health service is not there to generate money, it is there to look after it's people. You invest money in it to improve the quality of healthcare in it, if the money you invest in it isn't improving the quality of healthcare then you need to look at reforms. But for years governments have continued to cut back resources on healthcare, cut back on healthcare staff, cut back on hospital beds etc.

That is why we are in this mess.

And lockdowns don't deal with these issues, they only create additional ones.

[Angelo]

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid
[/quote]

How have lockdowns worked?

Why are we in Lockdown no 3?

[Milltown Row2]

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.

Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

A health service is not there to generate money, it is there to look after it's people. You invest money in it to improve the quality of healthcare in it, if the money you invest in it isn't improving the quality of healthcare then you need to look at reforms. But for years governments have continued to cut back resources on healthcare, cut back on healthcare staff, cut back on hospital beds etc.

That is why we are in this mess.

And lockdowns don't deal with these issues, they only create additional ones.

So I've looked at my post and I'm wondering where I posted that the health service is there to generate money! f**k almighty

They, the government, haven't invested in the NHS properly, they ain't investing in it to generate money, just to save lives.

You are repeating what I've said.

As for the lockdowns are you looking to do the Sweden method or Aussie/Kiwi ones?

Also, I know about depression and the flu of 17/18 I've posted on these threads before

[johnnycool]

Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?

Of course there's regret and no doubt the next set of Flu vaccinations were changed to include the strain that caused the issues in 17/18 which dare I say you were only aware of yourself in the latter part of 2020 as it suited your agenda.

I'm not the hypocrite on this here though.

You guys didn't bat an eyelid when people were dying in huge numbers of flu three years ago so where did this empathy and compassion jump out of in the past 9 months?

Not going to go back three years to see if you showed such outrage then either as no doubt you and I admittedly was blissfully unaware of increase in flu deaths three years ago.
It currently fits your agenda to go back over it but if the winters of 18/19 and 19/20 had also shown the same very high flu deaths then you'd have sufficient evidence to suggest negligence and mishandling of a virus on a scale that we're seeing right now with coronavirus with over 100K excess deaths and still counting.

I know you're against lockdown, not sure what you're for, so how many deaths are you prepared to live with so that you can restore some form of normality? 50K per annum, roughly 1K per week?

[Angelo]

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.

Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

A health service is not there to generate money, it is there to look after it's people. You invest money in it to improve the quality of healthcare in it, if the money you invest in it isn't improving the quality of healthcare then you need to look at reforms. But for years governments have continued to cut back resources on healthcare, cut back on healthcare staff, cut back on hospital beds etc.

That is why we are in this mess.

And lockdowns don't deal with these issues, they only create additional ones.

So I've looked at my post and I'm wondering where I posted that the health service is there to generate money! f**k almighty

They, the government, haven't invested in the NHS properly, they ain't investing in it to generate money, just to save lives.

You are repeating what I've said.

As for the lockdowns are you looking to do the Sweden method or Aussie/Kiwi ones?

Also, I know about depression and the flu of 17/18 I've posted on these threads before

You talked about it hemorrhaging billions so I was wondering if you were under the illusion it was actually there to make money?

[Angelo]

Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?

Of course there's regret and no doubt the next set of Flu vaccinations were changed to include the strain that caused the issues in 17/18 which dare I say you were only aware of yourself in the latter part of 2020 as it suited your agenda.

I'm not the hypocrite on this here though.

You guys didn't bat an eyelid when people were dying in huge numbers of flu three years ago so where did this empathy and compassion jump out of in the past 9 months?

Not going to go back three years to see if you showed such outrage then either as no doubt you and I admittedly was blissfully unaware of increase in flu deaths three years ago.
It currently fits your agenda to go back over it but if the winters of 18/19 and 19/20 had also shown the same very high flu deaths then you'd have sufficient evidence to suggest negligence and mishandling of a virus on a scale that we're seeing right now with coronavirus with over 100K excess deaths and still counting.

I know you're against lockdown, not sure what you're for, so how many deaths are you prepared to live with so that you can restore some form of normality? 50K per annum, roughly 1K per week?

I've made the point that in 17/18 there were excess deaths of 50k in a 4 month period during the winter flu season and nobody batted an eyelid.

Lockdowns haven't worked, there will be longstanding societal issues as a result. I don't get why we accept deaths from road accidents, alcohol, flu, heart disease every year without doing more to stop them but shut the world down to stop Covid.

[five points]

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid


How have lockdowns worked?

Why are we in Lockdown no 3?

Dunno why you're throwing these questions at me. I agree with you that the last 3 lockdowns have failed.

[dublin7]

What's your alternative to lockdown?

Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid

How have lockdowns worked?

Why are we in Lockdown no 3?

Dunno why you're throwing these questions at me. I agree with you that the last 3 lockdowns have failed.
[/quote]

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

[five points]

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

[Milltown Row2]

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

Was Killarney busy with tourists or locals?

[five points]

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

Was Killarney busy with tourists or locals?

Both. A lot of the people working there in bars etc last summer were locals.

[J70]

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

He clearly states that it is the relaxation of restrictions when the "lockdowns end" that cause the surges in cases, which leads to further lockdowns.

Lockdown -> cases decrease ->restrictions relaxed -> cases increase -> lockdown.

If there were no outbreaks in Killarney despite crowds, they were lucky, presumably down to low community infection levels at the time last summer. Doubt if the same would hold now.

[Smurfy123]

If lockdowns work so much why are we in lockdown 3
If lockdown work so well why was our lowest death and case count during a time when no lockdown
Maybe it's a sessional thing
Numbers are dropping massively
The talk must now change to a reopening
To many on here to comfortable at home getting the 80%
True blue being one of them
What about the people whi can't make mince meat?