China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

720 cases in the 26 today and I think 722 in the 6.
WHO saying Europe needs to do a lot more to keep Covid down.
Curfews in France and Spain and Belgium in trouble.
But the GAAboard virologists want life to go back to February 2020.

More utter hysteria.

Which poster has asked life to return to February 2020, quote a post and back it up. Or shut the f**k up with your disingenuous vomit.

[sid waddell]

Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.

If people are committing domestic violence then they shoud be prosecuted, other people should not be expected to sacrifice their life or health to facilitate these abusers.

13 deaths reported in NI today, there are only a few days in the troubles when so many died and we can probably remember these.

367 deaths in the UK today

Those claims that Covid was behaving differently from the spring are looking more and more tenuous

[Milltown Row2]

Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

[Angelo]

Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

You seem to be conflating domestic violence going on all the time to it seeing a huge rise in cases during lockdown, f**k those people though? Is that what you are saying? Tough shit that we have to have more domestic violence cases? That's the Covid tunnel vision I refer to, open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

Why are you so dismissive to the vulnerable people who are badly impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions? Why do you completely dismiss their plights with absolutely no compassion?

[Angelo]

Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.

If people are committing domestic violence then they shoud be prosecuted, other people should not be expected to sacrifice their life or health to facilitate these abusers.

13 deaths reported in NI today, there are only a few days in the troubles when so many died and we can probably remember these.

367 deaths in the UK today

Those claims that Covid was behaving differently from the spring are looking more and more tenuous

That's roughly a quarter of peak deaths in the spring wave when cases have been about 4 times higher for a sustained period of time now.

So your point seems to be contradicted by the facts.

Throw up a few tweets by a self-titled anarchist there to further undermine your argument.

[Ed Ricketts]

What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

[Angelo]

What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

Yes they're not the same.

It's absolutely undeniable that social care cannot be provided to the proper levels in times of lockdown and excessive restrictions.

So this is the debate, why are we getting consumed by Covid and neglecting all those vulnerable people in those categories? It's actually worth looking at this rather than dismissing it.

[Milltown Row2]

Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

You seem to be conflating domestic violence going on all the time to it seeing a huge uprise in cases during lockdown, f**k those people though? Is that what you are saying? Tough shit that we have to have more domestic violence cases? That's the Covid tunnel vision I refer to, open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

Why are you so dismissive to the vulnerable people who are badly impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions? Why do you completely dismiss their plights with absolutely no compassion?

I didn't and said it's horrendous and they need to be locked up, I think you have tunnel vision or blinkered vision..

At what point was I dismissive?

You need to calm down before you have a mental breakdown. We have not got excessive lockdown here at all

Seems herd immunity is not going to happen and we'll all get it multiple times, hopefully we'll only get a lesser strain of it, if that's possible.

Stay safe Angelo

[sid waddell]

Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

[Ed Ricketts]

What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

Yes they're not the same.

It's absolutely undeniable that social care cannot be provided to the proper levels in times of lockdown and excessive restrictions.

So this is the debate, why are we getting consumed by Covid and neglecting all those vulnerable people in those categories? It's actually worth looking at this rather than dismissing it.

To bring it full circle - it's clearly because of the unsustainable pressure on the health service.

Social services have problems with people in longer term risk, but health services have problems with people in immediate risk.

It's an oversimplification, but the bottom line is that the health service has to take precedent at this time.

It's a shit position to be in, but we're in it.

[Angelo]

Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

You seem to be conflating domestic violence going on all the time to it seeing a huge uprise in cases during lockdown, f**k those people though? Is that what you are saying? Tough shit that we have to have more domestic violence cases? That's the Covid tunnel vision I refer to, open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

Why are you so dismissive to the vulnerable people who are badly impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions? Why do you completely dismiss their plights with absolutely no compassion?

I didn't and said it's horrendous and they need to be locked up, I think you have tunnel vision or blinkered vision..

At what point was I dismissive?

You need to calm down before you have a mental breakdown. We have not got excessive lockdown here at all

Seems herd immunity is not going to happen and we'll all get it multiple times, hopefully we'll only get a lesser strain of it, if that's possible.

Stay safe Angelo

Locking them up is the same argument is an equivalent argument to saying we should have more ICU beds. Lockdown is the issue at present when it comes to domestic violence incidents surging. When lockdown and restrictive measures come into place they have severe negative consequences on vulnerable groupings in society.

This needs to be addressed and discussed, the reality of this needs to be be brought into the spotlight but there seems to be a concerted effort to downplay and dismiss the plight of these vulnerable people and I have to ask why?

We don't know about herd immunity, knowing science we will have a contrary study out next week telling us that antibodies last up to 1 year on avg. Science is chasing its tail on this, if you learned anything so far that should be it. Still so many unknowns out there.

[GetOverTheBar]

Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160

[sid waddell]

Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160

And you can get a bought and paid for, media savvy medic to tell you anything these days, such as that 10% infection in a population achieves herd immunity, as that guy has claimed

[Angelo]

What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

Yes they're not the same.

It's absolutely undeniable that social care cannot be provided to the proper levels in times of lockdown and excessive restrictions.

So this is the debate, why are we getting consumed by Covid and neglecting all those vulnerable people in those categories? It's actually worth looking at this rather than dismissing it.

To bring it full circle - it's clearly because of the unsustainable pressure on the health service.

Social services have problems with people in longer term risk, but health services have problems with people in immediate risk.

It's an oversimplification, but the bottom line is that the health service has to take precedent at this time.

It's a shit position to be in, but we're in it.

Why does the health service have to take precedent?

Why didn't it take precedent in the decades before when it was run down in terms of resources?

The societal and economic issues lockdowns and restrictions will cause will far outweigh whatever consequences Covid is at present now, in my opinion.

The thing with Covid is the inaccurate classifying of Covid deaths, the vast majority of people who have died from it have underlying health issues, are extremely elderly with low life expectancy and this might sound glib but this is important. Is it really Covid that is killing them or is it an underlying issue, their age, their failing health. I don't think any sensible person can argue this, look at any data that is returned on the no of deaths who had underlying health issues, the age range of deaths etc.

It's not a virus that is any widespread threat to young, fit and healthy people.

So when do we look at that data and contrast it with the vulnerable in society who are being impacted by lockdown and excessive restrictions.
The people whose jobs and livelihoods are at threat.
The impact this has on children and young people and their social development.

The consequences of lockdown and restriction go and above beyond what Covid can even dream about and we're not allowed discuss this without hysterics and misinformation.

[Angelo]

Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160

And you can get a bought and paid for, media savvy medic to tell you anything these days, such as that 10% infection in a population achieves herd immunity, as that guy has claimed

You mean it doesn't fit with your narrative. Misinformation from you once again.