The ulster rugby trial

[Owen Brannigan]

I thought Best's statement was an absolute disgrace. Even worse than his bad judgement in attending in the first place. If he was so concerned about getting the truth (a) I'm sure he can get full transcripts and (b) he'll only get to offer his character reference if they're found guilty. To me he's clearly bullshitting. It seems clear he didn't mention it to the IRFU and I'd say that he knew they'd stop him if he told them.

On the issue of their attendance - fair enough the girl may not have been able to see them but I'm sure she found out they were there and I'm also sure the jury saw them there. I dare say several members of the jury recognised Best at the very least.

I've lost any respect I had for Best. Whether these lads are guilty or not it was incredibly bad judgement to attend and then the follow up mealy mouthed statement was ten times worse.

The IRFU just come across as incompetent as usual.

From BBC:

Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Well? 

[Owen Brannigan]

I think the bigger issue here is why did the Judge tell the jury anything.  As far as the law is concerned it's a public court room and would be perfectly entitled to attend the trial without comment from the bench.  I wonder did the jury ask specifically about his attendance.

Because the jury will have read all of the hysteria in social media and in the MSM and will have drawn their own conclusions like we have seen in this thread.

[Owen Brannigan]

Frank Greaney
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@FrankGreaney
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Re: Ireland and Ulster captain Rory Best's attendance last week Judge Patricia Smyth tells jury the only reason he was in court was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel

That is going to throw the cat among the pigeons of those clamouring all over this at the weekend. I wonder will there be many retractions from some of the stuff spouted. I doubt it.

I think you need to re-read what that tweet says.

And I think you need to retract all of the nonsense you have posted about Rory Best.

[AQMP]

"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.

OK legal eagles..."directed by senor counsel".  Does this mean "compelled" or "advised".   

Edit: I presume the senior counsel referred to here is the defence.

[magpie seanie]

I thought Best's statement was an absolute disgrace. Even worse than his bad judgement in attending in the first place. If he was so concerned about getting the truth (a) I'm sure he can get full transcripts and (b) he'll only get to offer his character reference if they're found guilty. To me he's clearly bullshitting. It seems clear he didn't mention it to the IRFU and I'd say that he knew they'd stop him if he told them.

On the issue of their attendance - fair enough the girl may not have been able to see them but I'm sure she found out they were there and I'm also sure the jury saw them there. I dare say several members of the jury recognised Best at the very least.

I've lost any respect I had for Best. Whether these lads are guilty or not it was incredibly bad judgement to attend and then the follow up mealy mouthed statement was ten times worse.

The IRFU just come across as incompetent as usual.

From BBC:

Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Well?

If the judge has to direct the jury about his attendance it kind of backs up what I was saying.

I cannot understand why he would have been directed to attend though. That's something I need to be convinced of a legitimate reason for. And if he was so directed - why not inform the IRFU?

[Owen Brannigan]

What a load of rubbish from Rory Best, (it is obvious that the IRFU made him say something as it wasn't going away) if you were going to give a Character Reference, that's exactly what it is A Character Reference of someone whom you know, he did not need to go anywhere near the court to be able to do so.  Whilst anyone can go to the Public Gallery, I personally believe he was stupid to do so, given his position.  Had Ireland been beaten yesterday, Rory would been under pressure to have been stripped of the Captaincy as the Media would have been baying for blood.  This Trial is due to last another 5 weeks and should end just before St Patrick's day so the English Media will no doubt be focusing on his actions again.  Innocent until proven guilly, but even if they did not rape this girl, their actions were disgusting for Glorified Sports Stars :   Not My Captain...Rory..

From BBC:
Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Any chance you might like to retract your second post on the Board?

[magpie seanie]

What a load of rubbish from Rory Best, (it is obvious that the IRFU made him say something as it wasn't going away) if you were going to give a Character Reference, that's exactly what it is A Character Reference of someone whom you know, he did not need to go anywhere near the court to be able to do so.  Whilst anyone can go to the Public Gallery, I personally believe he was stupid to do so, given his position.  Had Ireland been beaten yesterday, Rory would been under pressure to have been stripped of the Captaincy as the Media would have been baying for blood.  This Trial is due to last another 5 weeks and should end just before St Patrick's day so the English Media will no doubt be focusing on his actions again.  Innocent until proven guilly, but even if they did not rape this girl, their actions were disgusting for Glorified Sports Stars :   Not My Captain...Rory..

From BBC:
Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Any chance you might like to retract your second post on the Board?

What's your game? Are you going to go back the whole way through the thread and challenge everyone? I think you're reading this a little funnily if you think it makes everything ok. Armagh girl has nothing to retract....a perfectly reasonable position.

[Owen Brannigan]

I thought Best's statement was an absolute disgrace. Even worse than his bad judgement in attending in the first place. If he was so concerned about getting the truth (a) I'm sure he can get full transcripts and (b) he'll only get to offer his character reference if they're found guilty. To me he's clearly bullshitting. It seems clear he didn't mention it to the IRFU and I'd say that he knew they'd stop him if he told them.

On the issue of their attendance - fair enough the girl may not have been able to see them but I'm sure she found out they were there and I'm also sure the jury saw them there. I dare say several members of the jury recognised Best at the very least.

I've lost any respect I had for Best. Whether these lads are guilty or not it was incredibly bad judgement to attend and then the follow up mealy mouthed statement was ten times worse.

The IRFU just come across as incompetent as usual.

From BBC:

Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Well?

If the judge has to direct the jury about his attendance it kind of backs up what I was saying.

I cannot understand why he would have been directed to attend though. That's something I need to be convinced of a legitimate reason for. And if he was so directed - why not inform the IRFU?

At an absolute minimum, it means that there can be no vindication for the character assassination of Rory Best as witnessed by the hysteria on social media and on this thread.  It was on the day off for the whole Ireland squad.

Keep wriggling.

[Owen Brannigan]

What a load of rubbish from Rory Best, (it is obvious that the IRFU made him say something as it wasn't going away) if you were going to give a Character Reference, that's exactly what it is A Character Reference of someone whom you know, he did not need to go anywhere near the court to be able to do so.  Whilst anyone can go to the Public Gallery, I personally believe he was stupid to do so, given his position.  Had Ireland been beaten yesterday, Rory would been under pressure to have been stripped of the Captaincy as the Media would have been baying for blood.  This Trial is due to last another 5 weeks and should end just before St Patrick's day so the English Media will no doubt be focusing on his actions again.  Innocent until proven guilly, but even if they did not rape this girl, their actions were disgusting for Glorified Sports Stars :   Not My Captain...Rory..

From BBC:
Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Any chance you might like to retract your second post on the Board?

What's your game? Are you going to go back the whole way through the thread and challenge everyone? I think you're reading this a little funnily if you think it makes everything ok. Armagh girl has nothing to retract....a perfectly reasonable position.

Just highlighting a few of the many of those who jumped in feet first to criticise and attack the judgement and character of Rory Best.  It highlights the hysterical reaction that social media engenders, the lack of evidence such hysteria is built on and the damage it can do to individuals.

[David McKeown]

I think the bigger issue here is why did the Judge tell the jury anything.  As far as the law is concerned it's a public court room and would be perfectly entitled to attend the trial without comment from the bench.  I wonder did the jury ask specifically about his attendance.

Because the jury will have read all of the hysteria in social media and in the MSM and will have drawn their own conclusions like we have seen in this thread.

If they did that it would be grounds for discharging the jury I would have thought.  They will have been warned not to watch media coverage or read about this case where possible.  This is why I am surprised.

As for the term "directed by senior counsel" that likely does not mean compelled to attend.  Counsel will issue directions in any case for a wide variety of reasons, if in one of those directions it was stated to have Best attend that would not compel Best to attend. 

Of course it is not clear which senior directed the attendance and again I am surprised that wasn't made clear either 

[yellowcard]

What a load of rubbish from Rory Best, (it is obvious that the IRFU made him say something as it wasn't going away) if you were going to give a Character Reference, that's exactly what it is A Character Reference of someone whom you know, he did not need to go anywhere near the court to be able to do so.  Whilst anyone can go to the Public Gallery, I personally believe he was stupid to do so, given his position.  Had Ireland been beaten yesterday, Rory would been under pressure to have been stripped of the Captaincy as the Media would have been baying for blood.  This Trial is due to last another 5 weeks and should end just before St Patrick's day so the English Media will no doubt be focusing on his actions again.  Innocent until proven guilly, but even if they did not rape this girl, their actions were disgusting for Glorified Sports Stars :   Not My Captain...Rory..

From BBC:
Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Any chance you might like to retract your second post on the Board?

What's your game? Are you going to go back the whole way through the thread and challenge everyone? I think you're reading this a little funnily if you think it makes everything ok. Armagh girl has nothing to retract....a perfectly reasonable position.

Just highlighting a few of the many of those who jumped in feet first to criticise and attack the judgement and character of Rory Best.  It highlights the hysterical reaction that social media engenders, the lack of evidence such hysteria is built on and the damage it can do to individuals.

I'm not sure exactly how this vindicates Best from anything. I think we can presume that he was directed to attend the trial by senior counsel for the defendent. Now I'm no legal expert but I'd be reasonably sure that doesn't mean that he was duty bound to attend. And if he was 'directed' to attend, exatly what was his modus operandi? It looks very much like he (and Henderson) allowed himself to be used as a weapon/tactic for the defence to make a statement that they have friends in high places. Silent intimidation of the girl and a statement to the jury if you like. The optics of the whole appearance were very poor and Best made a crass misjudgement at best (pardon the pun).

[AQMP]

I think the bigger issue here is why did the Judge tell the jury anything.  As far as the law is concerned it's a public court room and would be perfectly entitled to attend the trial without comment from the bench.  I wonder did the jury ask specifically about his attendance.

Because the jury will have read all of the hysteria in social media and in the MSM and will have drawn their own conclusions like we have seen in this thread.

If they did that it would be grounds for discharging the jury I would have thought.  They will have been warned not to watch media coverage or read about this case where possible.  This is why I am surprised.

As for the term "directed by senior counsel" that likely does not mean compelled to attend.  Counsel will issue directions in any case for a wide variety of reasons, if in one of those directions it was stated to have Best attend that would not compel Best to attend. 

Of course it is not clear which senior directed the attendance and again I am surprised that wasn't made clear either

If Best is not obliged to attend, and again presuming it was the defence team who "directed" him, then he chose to go and therefore the questions over his voluntary attendance are legitimate.

[Syferus]

I think the bigger issue here is why did the Judge tell the jury anything.  As far as the law is concerned it's a public court room and would be perfectly entitled to attend the trial without comment from the bench.  I wonder did the jury ask specifically about his attendance.

Because the jury will have read all of the hysteria in social media and in the MSM and will have drawn their own conclusions like we have seen in this thread.

"virtue signaller", "mainstream media"

You guys do realise that you may as well tatoo I-am-totally-biased-against-the-woman on your foreheads when you use alt-right buzz words like that? Anyone who knows the history of the terms knows very well the sort of mindset that is attached to those who use them.

[HiMucker]

I think the bigger issue here is why did the Judge tell the jury anything.  As far as the law is concerned it's a public court room and would be perfectly entitled to attend the trial without comment from the bench.  I wonder did the jury ask specifically about his attendance.

Because the jury will have read all of the hysteria in social media and in the MSM and will have drawn their own conclusions like we have seen in this thread.

"virtue signaller", "mainstream media"

You guys do realise that you may as well tatoo I-am-totally-biased-against-the-woman on your foreheads when you use alt-right buzz words like that? Anyone who knows the history of the terms knows very well the sort of mindset that is attached to those who use them.

You are thick

[magpie seanie]

What a load of rubbish from Rory Best, (it is obvious that the IRFU made him say something as it wasn't going away) if you were going to give a Character Reference, that's exactly what it is A Character Reference of someone whom you know, he did not need to go anywhere near the court to be able to do so.  Whilst anyone can go to the Public Gallery, I personally believe he was stupid to do so, given his position.  Had Ireland been beaten yesterday, Rory would been under pressure to have been stripped of the Captaincy as the Media would have been baying for blood.  This Trial is due to last another 5 weeks and should end just before St Patrick's day so the English Media will no doubt be focusing on his actions again.  Innocent until proven guilly, but even if they did not rape this girl, their actions were disgusting for Glorified Sports Stars :   Not My Captain...Rory..

From BBC:
Judge Patricia Smyth told the jury "the only reason" that Rory Best attended the trial was that "he was directed to be here by senior counsel".
"I want to make it absolutely clear to you - and clear to the public - the only reason why Mr Rory Best was in this court last week was because he was directed to be here by senior counsel," said the judge.
"That's the only reason why he was here. And as a jury, you should know that."

Any chance you might like to retract your second post on the Board?

What's your game? Are you going to go back the whole way through the thread and challenge everyone? I think you're reading this a little funnily if you think it makes everything ok. Armagh girl has nothing to retract....a perfectly reasonable position.

Just highlighting a few of the many of those who jumped in feet first to criticise and attack the judgement and character of Rory Best.  It highlights the hysterical reaction that social media engenders, the lack of evidence such hysteria is built on and the damage it can do to individuals.

I'm not sure exactly how this vindicates Best from anything. I think we can presume that he was directed to attend the trial by senior counsel for the defendent. Now I'm no legal expert but I'd be reasonably sure that doesn't mean that he was duty bound to attend. And if he was 'directed' to attend, exatly what was his modus operandi? It looks very much like he (and Henderson) allowed himself to be used as a weapon/tactic for the defence to make a statement that they have friends in high places. Silent intimidation of the girl and a statement to the jury if you like. The optics of the whole appearance were very poor and Best made a crass misjudgement at best (pardon the pun).

Absolutely right and correct. And there are some unsavoury conclusions that could be reasonably be drawn on top of that. If anything the latest news makes things look worse for me.