FBD 2024

[macdanger2]

Lets take a top for ward like Conor McManus and stick him in the Mayo team in an AI final v Dublin. My guess is that the Dubs would put Philly and a friend on him and he would do well to get a point or 2 from play.

Or course in earlier games against a Roscommon or a Galway he would kill them.

The days of Padraig Joyce scoring 10 points in an AI final are gone with modern defensive systems. No point looking at old cures that dont work anymore.

That would free up o Connor to do damage. Also, I hate to say it but not too many teams keep McManus to 2 points whether he is double or treble marked. Best forward in Ireland in my opinion.

COC doesn't do much damage from play with Philly and company focusing on AOS already.

Donegal limited McManus to 2 scores from play in replay 2016 after he shot the lights out in first game. My point is that even the best forwards can be shut down and the later in the year it is the more likely it is to happen. Players like Brogan, McMenamon and Connolly did not go to town in the AI finals either.

It's just this simplistic stuff we get about scoring forwards. In the Donegal/Kerry final, Kerry didn't even bother playing James O Donoghue close to goal - correctly realising he would be swamped. Not a chance he would get the sympathetic 1 on 1 marking he got v Mayo.

Spot on.

We don't need to find this mythical "scoring forward" (although I admit we could improve a little on what we have), we need to improve our overall attacking system - support play, creating space, etc.

[Itchy]

You cannot survive with only one scoring forward but If you have a McManus and he gets that sort of minding then your other forwards ( assuming they are some use) should be freed  up. I don't believe Mayo Have enough individual scoring talent around the field. I think if ye had a McManus ye would have won Sam.

[macdanger2]

You cannot survive with only one scoring forward but If you have a McManus and he gets that sort of minding then your other forwards ( assuming they are some use) should be freed  up. I don't believe Mayo Have enough individual scoring talent around the field. I think if ye had a McManus ye would have won Sam.

Maybe we would have but there aren't too many of his kind knocking about

[Beffs]

Donegal limited McManus to 2 scores from play in replay 2016 after he shot the lights out in first game. My point is that even the best forwards can be shut down and the later in the year it is the more likely it is to happen. Players like Brogan, McMenamon and Connolly did not go to town in the AI finals either.

It's just this simplistic stuff we get about scoring forwards. In the Donegal/Kerry final, Kerry didn't even bother playing James O Donoghue close to goal - correctly realising he would be swamped. Not a chance he would get the sympathetic 1 on 1 marking he got v Mayo.

Brogan beat Mayo on his own in the 2013 AI final. Finished the day with 2-3, even though Ger Gafferky kept pretty decent tabs on him for most of the day. In 2015, he scored one goal and set up another for Philly Mc, in the space of three minutes, even though he was well marshalled that day too. Kev Mc has beaten Kerry twice, on his own, even though he was only on the pitch 10 minutes, both times. In 2015, he scored goals in both Mayo games.

Don't underestimate the importance of a forward being able to score key goals, in the biggest games, when it really matters. They don't have to go to town, not in the traditional sense. They just have to step up when it matters & those 2 forwards in particular, really do.

[Syferus]

Mayo's best forward is Lee Keegan..

[moysider]

Donegal limited McManus to 2 scores from play in replay 2016 after he shot the lights out in first game. My point is that even the best forwards can be shut down and the later in the year it is the more likely it is to happen. Players like Brogan, McMenamon and Connolly did not go to town in the AI finals either.

It's just this simplistic stuff we get about scoring forwards. In the Donegal/Kerry final, Kerry didn't even bother playing James O Donoghue close to goal - correctly realising he would be swamped. Not a chance he would get the sympathetic 1 on 1 marking he got v Mayo.

Brogan beat Mayo on his own in the 2013 AI final. Finished the day with 2-3, even though Ger Gafferky kept pretty decent tabs on him for most of the day. In 2015, he scored one goal and set up another for Philly Mc, in the space of three minutes, even though he was well marshalled that day too. Kev Mc has beaten Kerry twice, on his own, even though he was only on the pitch 10 minutes, both times. In 2015, he scored goals in both Mayo games.

Don't underestimate the importance of a forward being able to score key goals, in the biggest games, when it really matters. They don't have to go to town, not in the traditional sense. They just have to step up when it matters & those 2 forwards in particular, really do.

Brogan and McMenamon didn't step it up this year in AI finals. They didn t play poorly or anything but were well held for the most part. Dublin still won anyway of course.

Mind you, I would love a Mcmanus.

There are lots of fellas in Mayo that can score if they get time and space. Probably more than in most counties. But doing it in Div1/later championship!? - even the top counties at any given time have very few. When will Monaghan have another McManus or Donegal a McBrearty? A county either has these players or they don t.  You cant buy them and as yet you cant clone them.

[moysider]

Mayo's best forward is Lee Keegan..

Facetious on the face of it but really bang on.

Not that Keegan should be played ahead of the ball or anything. Anybody suggesting that Keegan should be played in forwards should be .....

They way the game has gone fellas that can play like McCaffrey, McCarty, Keegan, Higgins, McGlynn are more damaging than scoring forwards that won t be given the space to damage teams.

[Beffs]

Brogan and McMenamon didn't step it up this year in AI finals. They didn t play poorly or anything but were well held for the most part. Dublin still won anyway of course.

Mind you, I would love a Mcmanus.

There are lots of fellas in Mayo that can score if they get time and space. Probably more than in most counties. But doing it in Div1/later championship!? - even the top counties at any given time have very few. When will Monaghan have another McManus or Donegal a McBrearty? A county either has these players or they don t.  You cant buy them and as yet you cant clone them.

Yes, they were quiet in this years final....but what about the other 3 All Ireland titles they have won? What were their contributions then? In a discussion like this, you have to look at the totality of what a team has to offer over time, not just one game(s) against just one team, in just one year.

[seafoid]

Lets take a top for ward like Conor McManus and stick him in the Mayo team in an AI final v Dublin. My guess is that the Dubs would put Philly and a friend on him and he would do well to get a point or 2 from play.

Or course in earlier games against a Roscommon or a Galway he would kill them.

The days of Padraig Joyce scoring 10 points in an AI final are gone with modern defensive systems. No point looking at old cures that dont work anymore.

That would free up o Connor to do damage. Also, I hate to say it but not too many teams keep McManus to 2 points whether he is double or treble marked. Best forward in Ireland in my opinion.

COC doesn't do much damage from play with Philly and company focusing on AOS already.

Donegal limited McManus to 2 scores from play in replay 2016 after he shot the lights out in first game. My point is that even the best forwards can be shut down and the later in the year it is the more likely it is to happen. Players like Brogan, McMenamon and Connolly did not go to town in the AI finals either.

It's just this simplistic stuff we get about scoring forwards. In the Donegal/Kerry final, Kerry didn't even bother playing James O Donoghue close to goal - correctly realising he would be swamped. Not a chance he would get the sympathetic 1 on 1 marking he got v Mayo.

Spot on.

We don't need to find this mythical "scoring forward" (although I admit we could improve a little on what we have), we need to improve our overall attacking system - support play, creating space, etc.

Mayo's backs are probably the best in the country.
And Mayo are very good at generating possession.
But not at finishing it off in the last 10 minutes of the big matches
And that is down to the forwards.

The backs killed themselves in the matches against Dublin but the forwards couldn't close the deal.

[larryin89]

Some good posts but I don't think the root of the problem is realised . its our plan or more of lack of forward plan . why doesn't Jason doc or keV mgloughlin run off the shoulder of Andy or aido when they get primary possession in an attack ? Where are they , the lack of direct play is astounding at times. Only once I can remember Aido catch let it off to Andy and bang over the bar , quick simple plays we just don't get enough of.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I don't think forwards have been the reason Mayo haven't won the AI yet. It's more to do with their brains turning to mush when they are close to the line.

In saying that they do lack quality in the forward line. The likes of Doherty and McLoughlin are workhorses, Diarmuid O'Connor is a fantastic footballer but he looked burned out this year as the season wore on. O'Shea is a battering ram but I'm not sure he has the savvy to be effective as a forward.

Moran and O'Connor are the two main inside men for Mayo. Moran is a very smart player and he's the one forward Mayo have who doesn't just use his weaker foot for standing on. His movement is very good, he's physically strong and a good ball winner but he's getting on now and hard to see him having as good a season as he did last.

Cillian O'Connor is a guy Mayo fans are very defensive of being criticised but he is not a top forward. His free taking is as good as there is in the game but he doesn't contribute enough from play, particularly for a side like Mayo who have so much of the play. His lack of movement is very noticable during matches, he has very little pace and far quite a big lad with a rangy build he doesn't win enough tough ball, he's also extremely one footed.

He's definitely worth carrying for his free taking ability but Mayo really need an awful lot more out of him from play, his stats are massively padded by his frees.

How many of last year's u21 side are now with the senior squad?

[seafoid]

Some good posts but I don't think the root of the problem is realised . its our plan or more of lack of forward plan . why doesn't Jason doc or keV mgloughlin run off the shoulder of Andy or aido when they get primary possession in an attack ? Where are they , the lack of direct play is astounding at times. Only once I can remember Aido catch let it off to Andy and bang over the bar , quick simple plays we just don't get enough of.

The players are knackered after 60 minutes which is why the scores are so hard to.get. Mayo need to be able to throw on 2 scorers for the last 10 minutes.

[PW Nally]

Some good posts but I don't think the root of the problem is realised . its our plan or more of lack of forward plan . why doesn't Jason doc or keV mgloughlin run off the shoulder of Andy or aido when they get primary possession in an attack ? Where are they , the lack of direct play is astounding at times. Only once I can remember Aido catch let it off to Andy and bang over the bar , quick simple plays we just don't get enough of.

The players are knackered after 60 minutes which is why the scores are so hard to.get. Mayo need to be able to throw on 2 scorers for the last 10 minutes.

And what should the Galway hurlers throw on for the second half?

[seafoid]

Some good posts but I don't think the root of the problem is realised . its our plan or more of lack of forward plan . why doesn't Jason doc or keV mgloughlin run off the shoulder of Andy or aido when they get primary possession in an attack ? Where are they , the lack of direct play is astounding at times. Only once I can remember Aido catch let it off to Andy and bang over the bar , quick simple plays we just don't get enough of.

The players are knackered after 60 minutes which is why the scores are so hard to.get. Mayo need to be able to throw on 2 scorers for the last 10 minutes.

And what should the Galway hurlers throw on for the second half?

2  tinkers

I think they'll win it soon enough but I fear for Mayo

[Beffs]

Cillian O'Connor is a guy Mayo fans are very defensive of being criticised but he is not a top forward. His free taking is as good as there is in the game but he doesn't contribute enough from play, particularly for a side like Mayo who have so much of the play. His lack of movement is very noticable during matches, he has very little pace and far quite a big lad with a rangy build he doesn't win enough tough ball, he's also extremely one footed.

They all are. Am surprised that over the past few years, none of the players themsevles, their managers, or the Mayo coaching set up seem to have copped that fact and worked to resolve it. Surely to God, it can't have escaped their notice that the two players who did the most damage in the 2015 & 2016 replays, (Cormac Costello and Paddy Andrews,) are both two footed. They weren't born that way. It was the product of bloody hard work on the training pitch. Is every single Mayo players open to admitting that that is a weakness in their game? Are they willng to put in the hard work to correct it? Not having a go. Genuine question.

Spot on.

Mayo's backs are probably the best in the country.
And Mayo are very good at generating possession.
But not at finishing it off in the last 10 minutes of the big matches
And that is down to the forwards.

The backs killed themselves in the matches against Dublin but the forwards couldn't close the deal.

They may very well be killing themselves, but if Mayo's backs were the best in the country, they wouldn't be conceding as many dodgy/preventable/stupid goals as they do, at the worst possible time, in the biggest games. The lack of fire power up front, where to play Aidan O'Shea & Cillian O'Connor's contributions from open play, may be the things that get questioned most, when Mayo lose big games. However, the backs have to hold their hands up too, for the sheer size of the scoreline that their forwards have to overcome.