All Ireland u21 football championship 2015

[BennyHarp]

Rossfan, it's a daft question to ask if you'd rather lose playing good football or win playing ugly as it's the same thing as asking if you'd rather win or lose? However, Tyrone posters have been defending their defensive football while getting relegated, some lads are defending Roscommon CBS today who lost, Donegal posters defend Donegal who haven't won an All Ireland over the past two years and won't win it this year so supporters seem to be defending ultra negative football while losing. The mass defence stuff has been figured out and I don't think you'll see anyone win anything of note playing that way anymore yet some people seem to defend it even when it no longer gets results so I'm presuming they are fine with losing as long as it's a by a bit less than if they went for it.

This thread is going down the same route of about 10 other threads but anyway, Zulu, if you were in charge of Offaly or Longford going to Croke Park to play the Dubs in the first round of the Leinster Championship. How would you set the team up?

I'm not sure Benny though I might well set up defensively to give my team a better chance but Offaly or Longford are recently promoted division 4 sides. If I was managing Tyrone or Donegal I certainly wouldn't get 14 behind the ball as those teams can do as well by being more adventurous than that.

But the concept is the same whether you are a Tyrone or an Offaly. You set up your team to give you the best chance of a victory. At what point do you cross over to be a team that's too good to set up defensively.

[Syferus]

Yeah that's it alright  But sure lets reduce the game to win at all costs and prioritise the short term satisfaction of a few while not worrying about the game overall. Unlike you, I played and coached the game from the lowest to the highest levels and I'm concerned about the direction the game is going. I completely understand why a coach might employ certain tactics but they are no longer particularly effective so they only serve to produce poor games without the payoff of a result.

OK, Johnno.

[Rossfan]

As a supporter of a particular team I'd always want that team to win no matter a damn what way they did it.
As a neutral armchair viewer I want to see games like last year's three All Ireland Semi finals.
The administrators of the game should always be looking at ways of ensuring the games are better to watch, and rewarding atticking flair etc. But first they need to look at allowing defenders to defend . The man with the ball can do anything - 7 or 8 steps, hand off into the face, jump into a back and God knows what else and no free against him. Not to mention catching the tacklers hand!!!
Once a defender makes any challenge it's nearly always a free and if he doesn't get one all he has to do is hit the deck and it's a nailed on free.
Let defenders defend - even if a new tackle has to come about.

[Zulu]

I wouldn't set up a team as Donegal have for example, i.e. you play 12-14 behind the ball whoever you play. However, I would have it in my bag of tactics so if I felt we were well outgunned we could use it or if the other crowd were ultra defensive that we would keep our half back line in place. However, I would (I hope) always prepare a team that goes out to win any game it can by playing positive kicking football. As long as we had a reasonable chance of beating a team in a traditional game of football thats how we'd play and if I was the manager of Tyrone or Donegal I think I'd be confident of that against most teams.

[Zulu]

Yeah that's it alright  But sure lets reduce the game to win at all costs and prioritise the short term satisfaction of a few while not worrying about the game overall. Unlike you, I played and coached the game from the lowest to the highest levels and I'm concerned about the direction the game is going. I completely understand why a coach might employ certain tactics but they are no longer particularly effective so they only serve to produce poor games without the payoff of a result.

OK, Johnno.

Who's Johnno and what does that mean?

[Zulu]

As a supporter of a particular team I'd always want that team to win no matter a damn what way they did it.
As a neutral armchair viewer I want to see games like last year's three All Ireland Semi finals.
The administrators of the game should always be looking at ways of ensuring the games are better to watch, and rewarding atticking flair etc. But first they need to look at allowing defenders to defend . The man with the ball can do anything - 7 or 8 steps, hand off into the face, jump into a back and God knows what else and no free against him. Not to mention catching the tacklers hand!!!
Once a defender makes any challenge it's nearly always a free and if he doesn't get one all he has to do is hit the deck and it's a nailed on free.
Let defenders defend - even if a new tackle has to come about.

Agree. Today the PCD defender clearly caught the Roscommon corner forwards arm and pulled him down but got the free out which i couldn't believe but that's a different discussion.

[Syferus]

As a supporter of a particular team I'd always want that team to win no matter a damn what way they did it.
As a neutral armchair viewer I want to see games like last year's three All Ireland Semi finals.
The administrators of the game should always be looking at ways of ensuring the games are better to watch, and rewarding atticking flair etc. But first they need to look at allowing defenders to defend . The man with the ball can do anything - 7 or 8 steps, hand off into the face, jump into a back and God knows what else and no free against him. Not to mention catching the tacklers hand!!!
Once a defender makes any challenge it's nearly always a free and if he doesn't get one all he has to do is hit the deck and it's a nailed on free.
Let defenders defend - even if a new tackle has to come about.

Or to boil it down to the immortal words of Ice-T - don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[INDIANA]

Look if people had the choice to either lose playing good football or win playing ugly, I'm sure most would go with the latter.

Problem is many people seem to be happy to see their team lose ugly without ever trying to win playing good football.

Thats the bit I struggle with because most of these teams are just training to lose better

[imtommygunn]

Look if people had the choice to either lose playing good football or win playing ugly, I'm sure most would go with the latter.

Problem is many people seem to be happy to see their team lose ugly without ever trying to win playing good football.

Thats the bit I struggle with because most of these teams are just training to lose better

Lose better or give themselves as good a chance as they possibly can of winning?

[INDIANA]

Look if people had the choice to either lose playing good football or win playing ugly, I'm sure most would go with the latter.

Problem is many people seem to be happy to see their team lose ugly without ever trying to win playing good football.

Thats the bit I struggle with because most of these teams are just training to lose better

Lose better or give themselves as good a chance as they possibly can of winning?

Tommy these teams never win.

Donegal are a very poor example because they had the players to play a far better system and still win. Its a myth to think these counties can recreate what they did and win. Its just a better form of losing. Somewhere along the line you have to be able to play a bit if you want to win.

[Zulu]

Who's to say they are doing that? Making it hard for the other team to score is always likely to keep the score a bit closer but why is necessarily a better way of trying to win the game? If you're a division 1 team I don't think it is, if you're a division 4 team playing a division 1 team then fair enough.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Why are 2015 scoring averages per game in the ascendant, if this anti-football scourge, according to the doomsayers, is growing ever more pervasive? 

[Rossfan]

To get back to the U 21 Championship..,......
I suppose Dublin will bate Tipp  handy enough while us and the Tys  could go either way.
Should be a good crowd in Markypark while Tullamore will be virtually deserted.

[Zulu]

Think Tipp will give Dublin their fill and hope Roscommon beat Tyrone. I reckon a Dublin Roscommon final would be a cracking game.

[INDIANA]

To get back to the U 21 Championship..,......
I suppose Dublin will bate Tipp  handy enough while us and the Tys  could go either way.
Should be a good crowd in Markypark while Tullamore will be virtually deserted.

Let's call a spade a spade all the pressure is on Roscommon to win the u21 this year. You're under exactly the same pressure we were last year and it's not as easy as it looks