Gumshield / Mouth Guards

Started by Christmas Lights, January 21, 2014, 01:56:26 PM

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Zulu

Gum shields won't add a whole lot to the cost of a kid playing football. They don't need a particularly expensive one until they've stopped developing

johnneycool

Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
So a 10 year old turns up for a big blitz but has lost his gumshield (kids ...you know what theyre like). His mentors let him play...its all about enjoyment right? A mentor from the other team notices he isnt wearing one and draws it to the attention of he officials that he shouldn't be playing and gets the young lad pulled to the sideline.

Which mentor do you side with?

If they turned up for a hurling blitz without a helmet would you let them play? For kids, a club could buy a few cheap ones to give to kids who have forgotten them. Anyway they've been compulsory for kids for a year now and I haven't heard of any issues.

You'd always have a few spare helmets around when coaching youngsters as no doubt one will turn up without one. I'd always a spare helmet with an adult team and it got plenty of use as the morons regularly turned up forgetting it or if someone got one damaged during a game.

Hygiene wise I'm not so sure you could be holding onto a few 'communal' gumshields though.

Use a bit of orange peel instead  ;D

Zulu

Ah no, I don't mean communal ones, though if washed properly afterwards I'm sure there'd be no issue. However, I was thinking of buying 20 cheap ones and if you have a kid without one their parents would have to buy it for £2 (for example). This way the club isn't out much, if anything, but a kid can still play. I don't think it's a major issue though as kids love to have the club gear and if you got club gum shields they'd sell like hot cakes.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
Ah no, I don't mean communal ones, though if washed properly afterwards I'm sure there'd be no issue. However, I was thinking of buying 20 cheap ones and if you have a kid without one their parents would have to buy it for £2 (for example). This way the club isn't out much, if anything, but a kid can still play. I don't think it's a major issue though as kids love to have the club gear and if you got club gum shields they'd sell like hot cakes.

They'll have them in the club colours and as long as everyone wears them then there should be no problem, it will at the very least cut down on the verbal abuse to the referees, will auditable abuse lol
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

theskull1

#49
Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
So a 10 year old turns up for a big blitz but has lost his gumshield (kids ...you know what theyre like). His mentors let him play...its all about enjoyment right? A mentor from the other team notices he isnt wearing one and draws it to the attention of he officials that he shouldn't be playing and gets the young lad pulled to the sideline.

Which mentor do you side with?

If they turned up for a hurling blitz without a helmet would you let them play? For kids, a club could buy a few cheap ones to give to kids who have forgotten them. Anyway they've been compulsory for kids for a year now and I haven't heard of any issues.

If I was at the blitz and couldn't find a helmet for him, I would ask around for a lend of one or possibly see if his team mates might share theirs with him (when they're on the line). He wouldn't play without one. Would you not agree though comparing a hurling helmet with a gumshield is not a like for like comparison. 

Personally believe this rule if it is to be imposed, should be encouraged for all ages but only made mandatory for U16s and up when the physicality moves up a fair notch.

More need of a hurling helmet for a youngster learning the game. Never seen teeth being spat out at a juvenile football match yet, so don't see where the necessity is to drive this so hard across ALL agegroups.

The whole notion that an under 10 coach is going to arrive at a venue with additional gumshields with him and a kettle and bowl to fit them is stretching it. BTW a lot of pitches don't have a power source within easy access. Should he bring a flask?

You didn't answer my question BTW. Is it fair to assume you'd side with the mentor who gets the attention of the officials to get an U10 off the pitch?

It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

Tony Baloney

Quote from: johnneycool on January 22, 2014, 11:31:47 AM
Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
So a 10 year old turns up for a big blitz but has lost his gumshield (kids ...you know what theyre like). His mentors let him play...its all about enjoyment right? A mentor from the other team notices he isnt wearing one and draws it to the attention of he officials that he shouldn't be playing and gets the young lad pulled to the sideline.

Which mentor do you side with?

If they turned up for a hurling blitz without a helmet would you let them play? For kids, a club could buy a few cheap ones to give to kids who have forgotten them. Anyway they've been compulsory for kids for a year now and I haven't heard of any issues.

You'd always have a few spare helmets around when coaching youngsters as no doubt one will turn up without one. I'd always a spare helmet with an adult team and it got plenty of use as the morons regularly turned up forgetting it or if someone got one damaged during a game.

Hygiene wise I'm not so sure you could be holding onto a few 'communal' gumshields though.

Use a bit of orange peel instead  ;D
Or a well chewed piece of Hubba Bubba does the trick.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
So a 10 year old turns up for a big blitz but has lost his gumshield (kids ...you know what theyre like). His mentors let him play...its all about enjoyment right? A mentor from the other team notices he isnt wearing one and draws it to the attention of he officials that he shouldn't be playing and gets the young lad pulled to the sideline.

Which mentor do you side with?

If they turned up for a hurling blitz without a helmet would you let them play? For kids, a club could buy a few cheap ones to give to kids who have forgotten them. Anyway they've been compulsory for kids for a year now and I haven't heard of any issues.

If I was at the blitz and couldn't find a helmet for him, I would ask around for a lend of one or possibly see if his team mates might share theirs with him (when they're on the line). He wouldn't play without one. Would you not agree though comparing a hurling helmet with a gumshield is not a like for like comparison. 

Personally believe this rule if it is to be imposed, should be encouraged for all ages but only made mandatory for U16s and up when the physicality moves up a fair notch.

More need of a hurling helmet for a youngster learning the game. Never seen teeth being spat out at a juvenile football match yet, so don't see where the necessity is to drive this so hard across ALL agegroups.

The whole notion that an under 10 coach is going to arrive at a venue with additional gumshields with him and a kettle and bowl to fit them is stretching it. BTW a lot of pitches don't have a power source within easy access. Should he bring a flask?

You didn't answer my question BTW. Is it fair to assume you'd side with the mentor who gets the attention of the officials to get an U10 off the pitch?

Which hat will I put on? As a referee I have to been seen to enforce the rules, As a mentor (if managed under12's for years) I'd say it's tough but he'll not play as in the unlikely event that this happens to be the time that the lad does loose a tooth or worse ends up running into a post and breaks a jaw who do I answer too? The parents for allowing the child to play? The county board for allowing him to play and then the club for allowing him to play? If I get back into taking kids teams again I won't be allowing any players to play without a gumshield in, tournament or not, my own girls play hockey every week, they have to and wear them without any fuss. I really fail to see the problem.

As for your question, if it's brought to my attention as a referee then I have to act on that, I would be failing in my duty of care  to the player in question by not requesting him to get a gumshield in, is this Health and Safety gone mad? probably. You can bet your bottom dollar that if I let one player off with not wearing one they all will and there will be a text from someone at Casement that they heard about it. The question was brought up the other night at the referee course, that's what we have to adhere to.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Zulu

Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
So a 10 year old turns up for a big blitz but has lost his gumshield (kids ...you know what theyre like). His mentors let him play...its all about enjoyment right? A mentor from the other team notices he isnt wearing one and draws it to the attention of he officials that he shouldn't be playing and gets the young lad pulled to the sideline.

Which mentor do you side with?

If they turned up for a hurling blitz without a helmet would you let them play? For kids, a club could buy a few cheap ones to give to kids who have forgotten them. Anyway they've been compulsory for kids for a year now and I haven't heard of any issues.

If I was at the blitz and couldn't find a helmet for him, I would ask around for a lend of one or possibly see if his team mates might share theirs with him (when they're on the line). He wouldn't play without one. Would you not agree though comparing a hurling helmet with a gumshield is not a like for like comparison. 

Personally believe this rule if it is to be imposed, should be encouraged for all ages but only made mandatory for U16s and up when the physicality moves up a fair notch.

More need of a hurling helmet for a youngster learning the game. Never seen teeth being spat out at a juvenile football match yet, so don't see where the necessity is to drive this so hard across ALL agegroups.

The whole notion that an under 10 coach is going to arrive at a venue with additional gumshields with him and a kettle and bowl to fit them is stretching it. BTW a lot of pitches don't have a power source within easy access. Should he bring a flask?

You didn't answer my question BTW. Is it fair to assume you'd side with the mentor who gets the attention of the officials to get an U10 off the pitch?

I'm pretty certain you can get gum shields that you simply wear, they're not great and probably quite uncomfortable but you don't need hot water or anything you just put them in your mouth and away you go.

I think it is worth enforcing it at all age groups as it will be the norm for everybody in a short time this way. If you only start to enforce it at U16 then you'll have issues at 16 that could have been sorted when the person was 6.

I agree that helmets and gum shields are at opposite ends of the safety spectrum but they are still part of the same issue - player safety and I really don't see why it is a major problem to have everyone wear them.

On your question, I would turn like to see a bit of common sense applied and let the lad play but if any of my kids repeatedly failed to bring a gum shield then I wouldn't play him/her myself. I've told our kids it is compulsory to wear them at training so it becomes habit and they get used to wearing them. If they arrive without one they can still train but I'll remind them that they need to bring it in future.

blewuporstuffed

It just seems to me to be an unnecessary rule brought in to solve a problem we didn't really have.
It could quite easily have been left as it was, if you were worried about getting a dental injury, you wore a gum shield.
If you didn't think it was that big of a risk and preferred not to wear one, (most players probably fell into this category) you could not wear one-  personal choice.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Zulu

But if you had every tooth in your head knocked out playing football you'd expect the GAA insurance scheme to cover it would you not? If there is something that could help the GAA reduce it's insurance premium by players wearing gum shields then I'm all for it

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 02:30:04 PM
But if you had every tooth in your head knocked out playing football you'd expect the GAA insurance scheme to cover it would you not? If there is something that could help the GAA reduce it's insurance premium by players wearing gum shields then I'm all for it
So thats the issue then, insurance?
Why not get anyone who doesnt want to wear a gumsheild to sign an exemption form that any dental injuries they incur while not wearing a gumsheild aren't covered? (which is what they are saying at the minute now anyway)
Anyway, as i said, of all the injuries i've had and seen players get in gaelic football, dental ones aren't very high on the list.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

theskull1

Rules are rules so you have to apply them seems to be the order of the day.......very sheepish attitude lads

Leave that to the suits will youse  :-\

As others are saying, parents/players should be informed of the options out there to make our games safer for their wee johnny and help provide them with access to purchase the right gear if that's what they would like for their lad. For every 1000 lads wearing a gumshield, one or two *might save a tooth over their career. Let people decide themselves would be my view

With this type of subservience to health and safety mad officials,  we're not too far away from shin guards and padded gloves in hurling. Rubber headed hurls for seniors even.  :-\

*might .... does anyone really know if the cheap and nasty shop bought gumshields are fit for purpose? Ive also seen one person wearing a dentist fitted gumshield lose their front 2. They were easy found though .   
It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

Milltown Row2

Quote from: theskull1 on January 22, 2014, 02:39:52 PM
Rules are rules so you have to apply them seems to be the order of the day.......very sheepish attitude lads

Leave that to the suits will youse  :-\

As others are saying, parents/players should be informed of the options out there to make our games safer for their wee johnny and help provide them with access to purchase the right gear if that's what they would like for their lad. For every 1000 lads wearing a gumshield, one or two *might save a tooth over their career. Let people decide themselves would be my view

With this type of subservience to health and safety mad officials,  we're not too far away from shin guards and padded gloves in hurling. Rubber headed hurls for seniors even.  :-\

*might .... does anyone really know if the cheap and nasty shop bought gumshields are fit for purpose? Ive also seen one person wearing a dentist fitted gumshield lose their front 2. They were easy found though .


None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Zulu

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 22, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 02:30:04 PM
But if you had every tooth in your head knocked out playing football you'd expect the GAA insurance scheme to cover it would you not? If there is something that could help the GAA reduce it's insurance premium by players wearing gum shields then I'm all for it
So thats the issue then, insurance?
Why not get anyone who doesnt want to wear a gumsheild to sign an exemption form that any dental injuries they incur while not wearing a gumsheild aren't covered? (which is what they are saying at the minute now anyway)
Anyway, as i said, of all the injuries i've had and seen players get in gaelic football, dental ones aren't very high on the list.

I'm speculating on the reasons but reducing insurance premiums is no bad thing would you not agree? As MR2 said, his girls have to wear them playing hockey and while they might be more necessary in that sport I really fail to see what the issue is here unless you're just very keen on freedom of choice!

Rossfan

Quote from: Zulu on January 22, 2014, 02:52:25 PM
I really fail to see what the issue is here unless you're just very keen on freedom of choice!
Ahhh ..... it's the usual crowd who think HQ shouldn't make any rules or if they do they shouldn't apply them or expect "us" to apply them. :-[
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM