Well as the Board continues to get quieter every year we need a discussion on the match coming up, I know it's not one of the so called high profile games but to us fans of Fermanagh and Armagh it means everything.
Who's going to win and why? Armagh because we're better than Fermanagh (Just my opinion)
John McEntee had an interesting article in todays Irish News where he says home advantage doesn't matter that much these days and that Armagh will have as many fans in Brewster Pk as Fermanagh will...
Haven't seen the article, but home advantage is about more than the fans. Fermanagh have a great record in Brewster, and always have more confidence there.
I reckon its a 50/50 game, but contrary to McEntees assertions (or at least your relaying of them ;D), that Brewster will give us the slight edge needed. Looking forward to it.
Two poor teams. No advantage in winning as both will get hammered by either Monaghan or Tyrone. I'd say half the players have clubs lined up in America.
Fancy Fermanagh win and then at least put up some sort of effort in SF.
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2018, 10:35:51 AM
Two poor teams. No advantage in winning as both will get hammered by either Monaghan or Tyrone. I'd say half the players have clubs lined up in America.
Fancy Fermanagh win and then at least put up some sort of effort in SF.
Well maybe they shouldn't turn up then ::) Tyrone and Monaghan are good sides but they are very beatable and Armagh or Fermanagh will not fear them, well i hope not ;)
Well exactly, why bother discussing the vast majority of matches in the championship ::)
Fermanagh have beaten nobody of note in the ulster championship in Brewster in years.
Yes we have beaten Antrim but then Antrim have also beaten us at Brewster in the last 5 years.
We have also been beaten by Cavan and Down as well under Canavan before McGrath.
I think you have to go back to Malachy O'Rourke before we last beat a team at home other than Antrim. McEntee is right in that regard and he is also correct that there will be a bigger Armagh support there than Fermanagh in the terraces but not in the main stand.
Build up from Fermanagh has been very low key. No stories leaking out and injury wise all the main players have been playing for their clubs mostly.
I think it's an even enough game and Fermanagh will be well capable of beating Armagh.
Armagh have discipline issues and it's an issue Fermanagh have to try and exploit.
Fermanagh would have won the league final if they would have had a left footed free taker. Hopefully Tomas Corrigan is back to himself after an injury hit league campaign and can take over from Seamie on this side.
Defensively we have to tighten up. Our full back line has to win their own personal duels . At midfielder Eoin has to deal with the fact that Vernon will be trying to spoil him the whole game( which he has done very well every time I have seen him playing on Donnelly). Himself and Ryan have to get on top and we need to push up on the Armagh kickouts.
It's a game we should be winning if I am being honest. There is nothing to fear from Armagh and both teams know each other very well at this stage. Big test for the players.
It's a really tough game to call and could be a draw...I thought Armagh had Fermanagh well beaten last time out...dunno if the penny finally dropped with Fermanagh or if Armagh took the foot of the gas and let them back into it.
For me Armagh are about a 2-3pt team better than Fermanagh...but that's nothing. I agree with you that if Armagh rattle up the fouls then Fermanagh will punish us
I would probably agree with you if that had happened once.
Armagh should also have beaten Fermanagh comfortably in the league when we had men sent off.
They didn't and couldn't pull away from us. Somehow we managed to get a draw.
Same thing happened in the league final as well.
I think it will be very tight
Close enough game. Armagh maybe very slight favourites?? A point or two in it either way but my gut tells me Fermanagh might sneak it.
This is a game Armagh should be winning. We eased up in the league final and the result was closer than reality. However, if we keep giving away needless frees fermanagh coukd we'll punish us. Can't wait for it. Tickets ordered and all
Armagh are still a bit fragile. Fermanagh could pull it off.
The general level in Ulster has come back a bit if Tyrone are deemed the best. It could be interesting this year. There is no outstanding team really.
It would be amazing if Fermanagh could win the Anglo Celt.
Quote from: FermGael on May 10, 2018, 11:06:44 AM
Armagh have discipline issues and it's an issue Fermanagh have to try and exploit.
And yet it has been Fermanagh who have had key players sent off in recent games.
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Armagh are still a bit fragile. Fermanagh could pull it off.
The general level in Ulster has come back a bit if Tyrone are deemed the best. It could be interesting this year. There is no outstanding team really.
It would be amazing if Fermanagh could win the Anglo Celt.
Tyrone were head and shoulders above everyone else in Ulster last year. Monaghan took down Dublin. There's 2 teams way ahead of the pack.
Quote from: tyroneman on May 10, 2018, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Armagh are still a bit fragile. Fermanagh could pull it off.
The general level in Ulster has come back a bit if Tyrone are deemed the best. It could be interesting this year. There is no outstanding team really.
It would be amazing if Fermanagh could win the Anglo Celt.
Tyrone were head and shoulders above everyone else in Ulster last year. Monaghan took down Dublin. There's 2 teams way ahead of the pack.
They weren't head and shoulders above everyone in Ulster. They beat 3 teams well, but they didn't play the other 5 ;)
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 10, 2018, 08:37:46 PM
Quote from: FermGael on May 10, 2018, 11:06:44 AM
Armagh have discipline issues and it's an issue Fermanagh have to try and exploit.
And yet it has been Fermanagh who have had key players sent off in recent games.
Indeed it has. But it has been Armagh who have conceded most Frees .
Any major injuries for the teams? Everything has been very low key
One sure thing - it'll be hard watched.
Draw.
Whatever about the Ulster championship it will be interesting to see how the Dubs would do if the "Super 8s" land them in Clones to meet Armagh Tyrone or Donegal
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 12, 2018, 11:49:24 PM
Whatever about the Ulster championship it will be interesting to see how the Dubs would do if the "Super 8s" land them in Clones to meet Armagh Tyrone or Donegal
Why would they be playing any of those three in Clones? :o
I thought it was already announced that if Dublin make the super 8's all of their games will be in Croke Park?
Quote from: David McKeown on May 13, 2018, 07:18:51 AM
I thought it was already announced that if Dublin make the super 8's all of their games will be in Croke Park?
2 of them.
Every team is to play one home game, one away game and one game in croke park. Therefore Dublin get two games in croke park, despite Dublin supporters arguing over the years that Parnell park was their home ground.
A better and fairer option I would have thought would be, one home match, one away match and one neutral venue each.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 12, 2018, 06:22:14 PM
One sure thing - it'll be hard watched.
Draw.
Regrettably that is probably the safest bet of all.
Recent encounters have been dull.
The deficiencies in both sides are obvious. Armagh at least try to play football. But they need to be braver against packed defences. Too often we abandon our own game plan and just mimic the opposition or just become too consevative. Our game plan of ball into the full firwards won't work if the transition of the ball into midfield is in the hand it through the hands. It must move quickly.
We surely must have done serious work on tackling and discipline. The horrible fear is that if we haven't done that then all the work done on everything else and all the sacrifices made by the lads will come to nothing.
Fermanagh are a different story. They have a more than decent midfield and half back line and the FF line could click if given the right ball. They are not a bad team but going by the league they are probably the worst team in Ireland to watch. Their game plan is hideously negative. Their off the ball stuff is too obvious for a referee to pretend he ands his officials didn't see any of it. Expect plenty of yellow cards for both sides.
A lot will come down to whether Armagh have the belief in their game plan. Fermanagh's gameplay is limited to the point of being 3 bullet points on a white board. But the players believe in it, even when trailing. Armagh's plan is a bit more expansive. That makes it easier on the eye. But it only gets you anywhere if you believe in it when the chips are down
Planning on heading down early on Saturday to catch the Scottish Cup final. Can anyone recommend a pub where we could watch it and get some food?
Willie Ramblers is the local CSC Bar, I am almost certain they do food. If not there are any number of fast food outlets along the whole street!
It is a 5 minute walk to Brewster Park from there.
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 14, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Planning on heading down early on Saturday to catch the Scottish Cup final. Can anyone recommend a pub where we could watch it and get some food?
Fivemiletown Celtic supporters club?
Planning on bringing the young fella to the game, he's 7 so would prefer a stand ticket for him. When I look at booking online, choose the East Stand, 1 adult / 1 juvenile, it gives me two tickets in different rows, V26 & W5. I don't know the stand layout but would have thought they'd keep a parent and child together.
Quote from: balladmaker on May 15, 2018, 12:03:27 AM
Planning on bringing the young fella to the game, he's 7 so would prefer a stand ticket for him. When I look at booking online, choose the East Stand, 1 adult / 1 juvenile, it gives me two tickets in different rows, V26 & W5. I don't know the stand layout but would have thought they'd keep a parent and child together.
Prob send you opposite opposite ends of the ground.
This is the quietest I've heard from an Armagh camp in a long time, no one's tipping them for anything. There's been no word of injuries or shenanigans, it's like they aren't playing...
I have a bad feeling for Armagh in this fixture. The Brewster park factor could be key for Fermanagh and the ref will need to be strong for what will likely be a bruising encounter.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2018, 03:17:08 PM
I have a bad feeling for Armagh in this fixture. The Brewster park factor could be key for Fermanagh and the ref will need to be strong for what will likely be a bruising encounter.
Fermanagh wont want to meet Tyrone for a hammering. Armagh will give Tyrone a good game and might even beat them. Heck, I'd even go as far to say that this year will see Armagh's first Ulster Final appearance since.... the last one.
Armagh against tyrone last tear was a mismatch. I would be very surprised if armagh have come on that much.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2018, 03:17:08 PM
I have a bad feeling for Armagh in this fixture. The Brewster park factor could be key for Fermanagh and the ref will need to be strong for what will likely be a bruising encounter.
What's the Brewster Park factor? What's their record like there?
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 15, 2018, 09:03:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2018, 03:17:08 PM
I have a bad feeling for Armagh in this fixture. The Brewster park factor could be key for Fermanagh and the ref will need to be strong for what will likely be a bruising encounter.
What's the Brewster Park factor? What's their record like there?
It's a dirty, narrow pitch, kinda like Healy Park which is it's more windswept cousin. They've a mixed record there but tend to keep games tight at home especially in bad conditions. Couple of good wins there under McGrath most notably a 4 or 5 point turnaround in the dying minutes against Roscommon a few years back, think they got to the QFS that year.
That's not a slur on Fermanagh or Brewster either. It's just a tight pitch that defences can crowd easier. Fermanagh use that to their advantage as they should.
Quote from: trileacman on May 15, 2018, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 15, 2018, 09:03:12 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2018, 03:17:08 PM
I have a bad feeling for Armagh in this fixture. The Brewster park factor could be key for Fermanagh and the ref will need to be strong for what will likely be a bruising encounter.
What's the Brewster Park factor? What's their record like there?
It's a dirty, narrow pitch, kinda like Healy Park which is it's more windswept cousin. They've a mixed record there but tend to keep games tight at home especially in bad conditions. Couple of good wins there under McGrath most notably a 4 or 5 point turnaround in the dying minutes against Roscommon a few years back, think they got to the QFS that year.
Lost to Dublin.
Armagh 8/15 in Brewster Pk.
Skinny odds considering the venue.
Was there not a falling out among yourselves on your tip to Portugal (which the GAA have conveniently ignored considering it was in April)
Quote from: Taylor on May 16, 2018, 09:31:31 AM
Was there not a falling out among yourselves on your tip to Portugal (which the GAA have conveniently ignored considering it was in April)
Not aware of any falling out on the trip?? The GAA haven't ignored the obvious breaking of the April rule with the rumoured punishment being a loss of our first home league match next year.
As illdecide has said I don't think there has ever been a quieter build up to a first round championship match in my memory. McGeeney's treatment of the clubs is leaving quite a few supporters cold and the thoughts of playing a ultra negative Fermanagh in Brewster doesn't really get the juices going.
Having suffered through the league meeting there I'll be travelling with a sense of dread. Armagh's use of the ball has to be much better with much more running off the shoulder to break the defensive line. This team have been dreadfully poor against blanket defences over the years with too much aimless hand passing back and forward across the midfield area. I also hope that we have worked on our discipline as we have been giving away too many needless fouls. The other area of concern is Neilan is the referee. I'm not sure he's capable of refereeing this type of game.
Armagh's chances hinge of the availability and performance of Grugan and Rafferty up front. Rafferty, in particular, has a great talent for long range point taking which will be vital on Saturday evening. Rory Grugan's form has been patchy throughout the league but we need him to be at his best as he has outstanding vision and passing ability which again will be vital against a very tight defence. Both have had their injury concerns recently and I am unaware of their availability. If they are not able to play then we will be completely reliant on Andy Murnin and Fermanagh will wrap him up completely with very little else to distract the blanket defence.
It'll be tight and there's no way Armagh are a 8/15 shot for this match.
Grugan, Rafferty, Sheilds, McCabe and Sheridan all to miss Saturday.. Hard to see a win tbh.
Also, "McGeeney's treatment of the clubs is leaving quite a few supporters cold" Please elaborate....
I would have thought McGeeney's treatment of the clubs is obvious. He was one of the few inter-county managers to openly ignore the club only rule in April. The clubs do not get access to their county players in a similar way that other counties do or, indeed, the way that Paul Grimley allowed. It is widely known that the reason he left Kildare was that the senior clubs had enough of rarely having access to their county players so he has had a record of poor/no communication with clubs throughout his managerial career.
Quote from: our_fella on May 16, 2018, 10:49:09 AM
Grugan, Rafferty, Sheilds, McCabe and Sheridan all to miss Saturday.. Hard to see a win tbh.
Also, "McGeeney's treatment of the clubs is leaving quite a few supporters cold" Please elaborate....
Ahh FFS, why didn't you post that an hour ago before i went and purchased 2 tickets...lol
I agree with Mackers in terms of the treatment of clubs and it's not just in terms of player availability. I was speaking to a committee member of a small enough club in terms of numbers. They were organising fundraising events through April and had tickets etc to sell. They had a plan of action and this was essentially hijacked as the county board demanded that they sell tickets for the county team. How are clubs meant to survive I that environment?
How do you access the iplayer through freeview?
Is it via red button or what's the story or do you need laptop?
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 16, 2018, 01:34:53 PM
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
I would agree with you in terms of the development squads and I put a long post up on that particular subject on the Armagh forum.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 16, 2018, 01:34:53 PM
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
Who?
I know of Armagh players playing club matches last weekend and their still a part of the panel as far as I'm aware so not sure how is treating them bad??
Quote from: haranguerer on May 16, 2018, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 16, 2018, 01:34:53 PM
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
grugan and rafferty for a start,
for what its worth I think the club draw was a good idea because after you sold an agreed number you kept the majority of the money yourself , my own club put it as part of an enhanced dd scheme and it worked.
mc geeney gets bad press and I have my issues over his management but the players were pushing for the camp also and it was a carrot to get them buying into the promotion chase, sometimes its just easier to blame him.
]
Quote from: Throw ball on May 16, 2018, 01:34:53 PM
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
I don't think that McGeeney deserves credit for "allowing" the players to play three games for their clubs in April when Croke Park has made the rule that they should have played all four! Hence our potential punishment of having our first league game reversed for his obvious flouting of GAA rules. This is something that may come back to bite him next year especially if we only have three home games (reduced to two) depending on the draw. Yes there were players who got injured playing for their clubs but more players have been injured in county training in the recent past that have been injured playing for their clubs.
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2018, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 16, 2018, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 16, 2018, 01:34:53 PM
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
grugan and rafferty for a start,
for what its worth I think the club draw was a good idea because after you sold an agreed number you kept the majority of the money yourself , my own club put it as part of an enhanced dd scheme and it worked.
mc geeney gets bad press and I have my issues over his management but the players were pushing for the camp also and it was a carrot to get them buying into the promotion chase, sometimes its just easier to blame him.
This Grugan and Rafferty?
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/04/27/news/armagh-forwards-ethan-rafferty-and-rory-grugan-expected-to-be-fit-for-ulster-championship-showdown-against-fermanagh-1315242/
Quote from: mackers on May 16, 2018, 04:23:59 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 16, 2018, 01:34:53 PM
Mackers/BCB. I feel it is harsh to lay all the blame at McGeeney's door even though he does bear some responsibility. Knowing ones involved with other counties McGeeney is actually more flexible than some inter county managers. Players also did play 3 of 4 club games in April and a few picked up injuries which will keep them out of the Fermanagh game.
The club draw for me was a bit of a farce as some clubs took it seriously and others just done enough to meet a quota. The draw was to build a training centre for the county teams. It will be quite a while before we know if building such a thing in Portadown is a good idea.
The biggest thing for me seems to be the amount of money wasted on development squads. This is probably a countrywide problem. I would prefer money spent on improving coaching in schools and clubs.
I don't think that McGeeney deserves credit for "allowing" the players to play three games for their clubs in April when Croke Park has made the rule that they should have played all four! Hence our potential punishment of having our first league game reversed for his obvious flouting of GAA rules. This is something that may come back to bite him next year especially if we only have three home games (reduced to two) depending on the draw. Yes there were players who got injured playing for their clubs but more players have been injured in county training in the recent past that have been injured playing for their clubs.
It's not a rule. It was a guide or recommendation - which shows you how serious Croke Park were about it, i.e. it was a PR exercise. Armagh's county player access for clubs this April was about average in national terms and about the same as every other April.
Losing the home game is not for players missing club games in April, it's for the training camp
I just don't want us to turn into Derry where the club v county thing is prevalent. I may have misread the situation regarding where we broke the rules to lead to the overturning of our first home league game but I'm aware of a bit more ambivalence to the county team than before. Some of Geezer's attitude towards the clubs is concerning. He is on record as saying that if you are picked for the county you should not have to play club football (like rugby). While we're on the subject, I was also annoyed at an article in the Irish News where Davy Wilson was firing shots at clubs for overstretching the county minor lads because some of them were still playing u16 football. We have a lad in our club who was on the county panel and we specifically told him that we didn't want to see him at training or challenge matches. We felt we were looking after the lad as he had a very serious injury two years ago and he's doing exams this year. The county management had him running to Armagh to them FOUR days a week. I couldn't believe my eyes when one of our county minor managers starting criticising clubs for playing lads at both u16 and minor levels!!
The county management at all levels and the clubs need to work together for the betterment of all our players, not work against each other.
Fermanagh team named
1. P Cadden
2. K Connor
3. C Cullen
4. M Jones
5. B.Mulrone
6. J McMahon
7. L Cullen
8. E Donnelly
9. R Jones
10.P McCusker
11.D McCusker
12.A Breen
13.S Quigley
14.C Jones
15.S Quigley
Fermanagh going for a very mobile team 1-12.
Plenty of pace and a very big full forward line.
The Armagh defence can expect a few high balls.
It's not to often Fermanagh have had a sub of Tomas Corrigan's class sitting on the bench.
Add to that his brother Ruairi as well as Danny Teague .
We are certainly alot stronger from the bench than we have been for a while.
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
Quote from: redzone on May 17, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
You have seen the draw, right? This match is a contest to see who gets pulverised by either Tyrone or Monaghan. I don't think Fermanagh will get over Saturday never mind make an Ulster final.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 17, 2018, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: redzone on May 17, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
You have seen the draw, right? This match is a contest to see who gets pulverised by either Tyrone or Monaghan. I don't think Fermanagh will get over Saturday never mind make an Ulster final.
Same was said last year before the Down v Armagh match and Down after their win v Armagh knocked Monaghan out of the Ulster championship.
Quote from: redzone on May 17, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
I'll be shocked if Corrigan doesn't start.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2018, 11:59:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 17, 2018, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: redzone on May 17, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
You have seen the draw, right? This match is a contest to see who gets pulverised by either Tyrone or Monaghan. I don't think Fermanagh will get over Saturday never mind make an Ulster final.
Same was said last year before the Down v Armagh match and Down after their win v Armagh knocked Monaghan out of the Ulster championship.
Dont think Fermanagh would beat Tyrone but could cause a shock against Monaghan!!
Firstly though get over Armangh which I think they will!!
Watched the team being named last night on Gaelic Weekly facebook live, was a good job and great idea!!
Quote from: GaaFanatic123 on May 18, 2018, 09:10:13 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2018, 11:59:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 17, 2018, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: redzone on May 17, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
You have seen the draw, right? This match is a contest to see who gets pulverised by either Tyrone or Monaghan. I don't think Fermanagh will get over Saturday never mind make an Ulster final.
Same was said last year before the Down v Armagh match and Down after their win v Armagh knocked Monaghan out of the Ulster championship.
Dont think Fermanagh would beat Tyrone but could cause a shock against Monaghan!!
Firstly though get over Armangh which I think they will!!
Watched the team being named last night on Gaelic Weekly facebook live, was a good job and great idea!!
Home advantage should swing it for Fermanagh on Saturday, then it would be donegal in omagh. Who else but Gallagher to take donegal down. They would be massive underdogs in the final but that would suit them right. That's what makes them dangerous. Clones would be a sea of green and white, and having left the last final behind them this bunch can go down in history.
EDIT: They will probably shit the togs like they usually do
Quote from: redzone on May 18, 2018, 10:23:42 AM
Quote from: GaaFanatic123 on May 18, 2018, 09:10:13 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2018, 11:59:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 17, 2018, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: redzone on May 17, 2018, 10:14:07 PM
Can see Corrigan starting in the full forward line. Il tell u that's a damn strong team. Wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh make it to an ulster final, then anything could happen
You have seen the draw, right? This match is a contest to see who gets pulverised by either Tyrone or Monaghan. I don't think Fermanagh will get over Saturday never mind make an Ulster final.
Same was said last year before the Down v Armagh match and Down after their win v Armagh knocked Monaghan out of the Ulster championship.
Dont think Fermanagh would beat Tyrone but could cause a shock against Monaghan!!
Firstly though get over Armangh which I think they will!!
Watched the team being named last night on Gaelic Weekly facebook live, was a good job and great idea!!
Home advantage should swing it for Fermanagh on Saturday, then it would be donegal in omagh. Who else but Gallagher to take donegal down. They would be massive underdogs in the final but that would suit them right. That's what makes them dangerous. Clones would be a sea of green and white, and having left the last final behind them this bunch can go down in history.
EDIT: They will probably shit the togs like they usually do
I like you optimism...you do know the winners play either Tyrone or Monaghan and then more than likely Donegal in the final. Stay positive pal.
Is the game televised?
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 14, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Planning on heading down early on Saturday to catch the Scottish Cup final. Can anyone recommend a pub where we could watch it and get some food?
Pats Bar or Crowes Nest in the centre of the town would be your best bet. A lot better grub and beer than Willie Ramblers. 10-15 minute walk from Brewster.
Quote from: Nanderson on May 18, 2018, 03:17:41 PM
Is the game televised?
Live on the BBC player for Northern Ireland viewers only i believe
Quote from: Emmett on May 18, 2018, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 14, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Planning on heading down early on Saturday to catch the Scottish Cup final. Can anyone recommend a pub where we could watch it and get some food?
Pats Bar or Crowes Nest in the centre of the town would be your best bet. A lot better grub and beer than Willie Ramblers. 10-15 minute walk from Brewster.
Charlie's.
Best pints in the town .
No food though
Just seen this tweet from Declan Bogue....Here's one for ya. If Seamus Quigley starts on Saturday, it will be the first time he has ever started an Ulster Championship match for @FermanaghGAA.
That's madness. I would never that thought that.
Quote from: FermGael on May 18, 2018, 04:19:45 PM
Quote from: Emmett on May 18, 2018, 03:35:45 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 14, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Planning on heading down early on Saturday to catch the Scottish Cup final. Can anyone recommend a pub where we could watch it and get some food?
Pats Bar or Crowes Nest in the centre of the town would be your best bet. A lot better grub and beer than Willie Ramblers. 10-15 minute walk from Brewster.
Charlie's.
Best pints in the town .
No food though
True.
Armagh team has some surprises
Hughes
Mc kay burns Mackin
Shields Donaghy Mc cabe
Crealey Vernon
Forker Watters grugan
Mc Parland murnin grimley
No Rafferty, Hughes , Sheridan nor rowland.
Struggling to see scores
But here's hoping.
That's not the team I'm only after seeing on Facebook- it's worse.
1 Blaine Hughes Carraig an Chrupáin
2 Patrick Burns Foirceall
3 Connaire Mackin Sheain Ui Neill
4 Aaron McKay Dromainn Tí
5 Charlie Vernon Cláirsigh Ard Mhacha
6 Gregory McCabe Seán Ó Néill
7 Aidan Forker An Machaire
8 Brendan Donaghy Cluain Mhor
9 Niall Grimley Na Madáin
10 Colm Watters Baile Mhic Cholla
11 Mark Shields An Chrois Bhán
12 Ben Crealey An Machaire
13 Gavin McParland Baile Mhic an Aba
14 Andrew Murnin Naomh Pól
15 Rory Grugan ( C ) Baile Mhic an Aba
12 of that team started the league final I think. Will need another big game from Andrew Murnin and Niall Grimley will have to be at his best on frees.
Anyone know where to start looking for the match on BBC iPlayer?
Can it be shown in the South on BBC iPlayer?
BBC NI sport website if your telly isn't iplayer equipped.
Can just be shown in the North, I presume.
Will it be accessible via the red button or how do you get it on an ordinary tv will built in freeview HD?
Quote from: giveherlong on May 19, 2018, 12:01:16 AM
Will it be accessible via the red button or how do you get it on an ordinary tv will built in freeview HD?
Think you need a telly with built-in iplayer. Not sure if it'll be available through red button.
Have to say Brewster Park is in some shape.
Pitch is like a carpet.
I'd like to personally wish Fermanagh all the best today.
Any streams???
IPlayer doesn't work in South
rte showing royal wedding. gaelic match on bbc i player not available in south? wtf?
Quote from: southtyronegael on May 19, 2018, 07:23:05 PM
rte showing royal wedding. gaelic match on bbc i player not available in south? wtf?
Sure the Brits took the wrong part of Ireland ;)
This is brutal
What do the quigleys actually contribute to this team?
HT Fermanagh 0-6 Armagh 0-4 close and tense encounter. 8421 in attendance.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 19, 2018, 07:37:52 PM
What do the quigleys actually contribute to this team?
A big packet of buns.
Dire stuff.
Fermanagh have the breeze and Tomas Corrigan to come off the bench to
Shocking stuff, especially from Armagh, awful. Armagh seemed to have fielded a team without a natural forward.
Fermanagh the better team and should be more in front but why did the red disallow a point the umpires gave? Also, that was a poor dive by Quigley at the end and the ref bought it. Armagh need a massive improvement
Point was def wide on tv
Is Kieran McGeeney the biggest fraud in football?
Reading the comments it's easy to see why RTÉ/Sky are concentrating on the hurley stuff!!
Radio said that was a wide Totton and that 1 umpire put up a flag while the other lad waved it wide.
Can someone post up the match stream link.
brutal game. Armagh are error strewn but what exactly was the game plan supposed to be. 2 point deficit. All is not lost. Yet.
Quote from: redzone on May 19, 2018, 07:48:27 PM
Point was def wide on tv
Cheers. I'm at the opposite end of pitch and couldn't see it. Only went on why the umpires gave
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 19, 2018, 07:49:59 PM
Can someone post up the match stream link.
You don't want it up. Brutal
Could it be argued the Fermanagh man should have got a black card there. He had no need to be there in the first place?
Armagh 6 points down and 1 man down.
Cannot see any way back.
Armagh tackling is so indisciplined. Costing them big time. Too many cheap frees when Fermanagh are under pressure.
Fermanagh could well throw it away right enough. Not sure they have the composure to see it out.
Could hope and desperation qualify as a tactic
Armagh comeback on the cards according to the radio.
Fermanagh could still bottle this
Armagh averaging a score every 10 minutes against Fermanagh.
It's an absolutely shocking indictment of whatever it is they do in training.
If those lads had played club football only the past 3 months and were literally gathered up this morning, they would perform better than this.
Fermanagh are the ebola of Gaelic Football
Quote from: thewobbler on May 19, 2018, 08:20:35 PM
Armagh averaging a score every 10 minutes against Fermanagh.
It's an absolutely shocking indictment of whatever it is they do in training.
If those lads had played club football only the past 3 months and were literally gathered up this morning, they would perform better than this.
That's the problem.....they're not getting club football.
Hard to tell who's worse in this game. Awful awful stuff on show.
Quote from: Orior on May 19, 2018, 08:12:49 PM
Armagh 6 points down and 1 man down.
Cannot see any way back.
Look on the bright side Orior. Some new golf courses on the qualifier circuit
RTE
62 mins Fermanagh 0-11 Armagh 0-06
Seamus Quigley fists over a point when a goal was possibly on but that was the right option. Fermanagh have a five-point lead to protect against 14 men with eight minutes to go.
Quote from: tyroneman on May 19, 2018, 08:26:18 PM
Hard to tell who's worse in this game. Awful awful stuff on show.
Not having that. Fermanagh are playing very efficiently.
Armagh absolutely horrendous.
13 wides for Armagh. As bad as Mayo last week.
I was right to have a bad feeling for Armagh in that game. Goose was as well as cooked when found themselves 2 behind at half time and only 0-4 was scored with the wind.
Absolutely pathetic from Armagh, Fermanagh worthy winners.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on May 19, 2018, 08:44:29 PM
Absolutely pathetic from Armagh, Fermanagh worthy winners.
Too many pathetic performances. There is no experience in that team apart from Vernon who is not consistent. Then you have Donaghy who was quiet enough and Grimley being an absolute idiot. Shields was also a bit and cold player.
What's happened to the likes of Morgan, Campbell, Findon, Dyas etc? This was a vomit inducing display by Armagh but Fermanagh are the better team although I thought they dived quite a lot but can't complain they took their chances and Armagh couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 19, 2018, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 19, 2018, 08:26:18 PM
Hard to tell who's worse in this game. Awful awful stuff on show.
Not having that. Fermanagh are playing very efficiently.
Armagh absolutely horrendous.
Efficient in defence maybe. Very wasteful going forward.
McGeeney looked a bit beaten at the end.
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2018, 08:53:54 PM
McGeeney looked a bit beaten at the end.
Zero wins in 4 Ulster championship campaigns so far. Not the greatest stat to have.
Fair play Fermanagh nice to see yous get a rare win
Hard Luck Armagh just beaten by a better side on the day, good luck in the qualifiers
Should have been a refund given no wonder people are not going.Rory was the most excited man in the ground and provided the best entertainment.
Shocking in one sense that Armagh haven't won a game in Ulster since they bate Cavan in 2014 and none since McGeeney rode in.
Surely the writing is on the wall for him.....
That said congrats to Fermanagh....a nice bunch of supporters whom I enjoyed mingling with in our recent League game, despite the late late disappointment. I cannot see them so the business against tomorrow's winners but, shur, give it a lash.
Pathetic shite. Fermanagh much superior with a well coached game plan (that did include a lot of diving & gamesmanship tbf). I wouldn't know where to start with Armagh. Once again we don't play our own game and tailor our game plan to try and match or out wit the opposition, anytime we do this we fail spectacularly. I don't think Grimley staying on would have made a huge difference either.
I've often thought we got a raw deal from refs but jaysus our tackling is shocking. Rory Gallagher took McGeeney to school.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 19, 2018, 08:55:32 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2018, 08:53:54 PM
McGeeney looked a bit beaten at the end.
Zero wins in 4 Ulster championship campaigns so far. Not the greatest stat to have.
Armagh are just one of the bigger teams who are lost.
Quote from: naka on May 18, 2018, 10:23:56 PM
Struggling to see scores
You were right about Armaghs toothless looking attack. Fairly comfortably win for Fermanagh in the end and in a game they only scored 0-12 themselves.
16 wides for Armagh
No Armagh score from play from 16th minute
4 years of McGeeney in charge and 4 years not winning a first round championship game
Another year of some of the best players in the county not wanting to play under the current regime
Fermanagh with 21 clubs, Armagh with 47 clubs
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 19, 2018, 08:55:32 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2018, 08:53:54 PM
McGeeney looked a bit beaten at the end.
Zero wins in 4 Ulster championship campaigns so far. Not the greatest stat to have.
I think he is doing a great job to be honest, long may it continue
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 19, 2018, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 19, 2018, 08:55:32 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2018, 08:53:54 PM
McGeeney looked a bit beaten at the end.
Zero wins in 4 Ulster championship campaigns so far. Not the greatest stat to have.
I think he is doing a great job to be honest, long may it continue
I think he should be given another 5 year contract. (if he leaves I'd be afraid he'd be all over the media as a pundit)
Quote from: Solo_run on May 19, 2018, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on May 19, 2018, 08:44:29 PM
Absolutely pathetic from Armagh, Fermanagh worthy winners.
Too many pathetic performances. There is no experience in that team apart from Vernon who is not consistent. Then you have Donaghy who was quiet enough and Grimley being an absolute idiot. Shields was also a bit and cold player.
What's happened to the likes of Morgan, Campbell, Findon, Dyas etc? This was a vomit inducing display by Armagh but Fermanagh are the better team although I thought they dived quite a lot but can't complain they took their chances and Armagh couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
Shields must've committed ten fouls at least. I saw the ref ticking him after his 8th foul.
Watching Armagh regularly since our great first round victory over Cavan in May 1977. Some great days since, but of course some abject performances as well. The capitulation at home to Derry in 1995 and the car crash against Wexford in Croke Park in 2008 are two that come to mind. That is right up there with them.
An absolutely poverty stricken performance of brainless tactics, terrible shooting, terrible passing, taking the wrong options, running into cul de sacs, indiscipline in the tackle etc etc. Absolutely awful. Our age old failing of struggling against a defensive system was there for all to see.
Our kickouts were brilliant in Croke Park in the League Final - I think Fermanagh learned a lot from that day and that, together with a much tighter pitch, meant we were always under pressure from our own kickout and did not get much around the middle.
Agree with what a lot of others said - Fermanagh much the better team - well drilled, disciplined and have a game plan that makes the most of their resources. The influence of Ricey is also very evident in some of Fermanagh's 'play' and I can see why Rory gets into so many scrapes on the sideline.
Let's face it - Armagh simply do not have the players to make much of a dent in the Championship, but I would expect more from what was there, particularly when there are trips abroad where some meaningful preparation can take place. It also brings into sharp focus the absence of so many players who would be starting.
A depressing evening.
Edited to add - there is actually good news - we do not have to meet the winners of Monaghan and Tyrone.
That was a lot easier than expected .
Very mature performance from Fermanagh against a very disappointing Armagh team.
Armaghs discipline is shocking..
Once Fermanagh got in front after half time Armagh just ran out of ideas.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 19, 2018, 09:17:41 PM
Watching Armagh regularly since our great first round victory over Cavan in May 1977. Some great days since, but of course some abject performances as well. The capitulation at home to Derry in 1995 and the car crash against Wexford in Croke Park in 2008 are two that come to mind. That is right up there with them.
An absolutely poverty stricken performance of brainless tactics, terrible shooting, terrible passing, taking the wrong optins, running into cul de sacs, indiscipline in the tackle etc etc. Absolutely awful. Our age old failing of struggling against a defensive system was there for all to see.
Our kickouts were brilliant in Croke Park in the League Final - I think Fermanagh learned a lot from that day and that, together with a much tighter pitch, meant we were always under pressure from our own kickout and did not get much around the middle.
Agree with what a lot of others said - Fermanagh much the better team - well drilled, disciplined and have a game plan that makes the most of their resources. The influence of Ricey is also very evident in some of Fermanagh's 'play' and I can see why Rory gets into so many scrapes on the sideline.
Let's face it - Armagh simply do not have the payers to make much of a dent in the Championship, but I would expect more from what was there, particularly when there are trips abroad where some meaningful preparation can take place. It also brings into sharp focus the absence of so many players who would be starting.
A depressing evening.
+1
Poor from Fermanagh feigning head injurys to run down the clock, glad Marty Clarke called them out on it. Obviously orchestrated
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 19, 2018, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 19, 2018, 09:17:41 PM
Watching Armagh regularly since our great first round victory over Cavan in May 1977. Some great days since, but of course some abject performances as well. The capitulation at home to Derry in 1995 and the car crash against Wexford in Croke Park in 2008 are two that come to mind. That is right up there with them.
An absolutely poverty stricken performance of brainless tactics, terrible shooting, terrible passing, taking the wrong optins, running into cul de sacs, indiscipline in the tackle etc etc. Absolutely awful. Our age old failing of struggling against a defensive system was there for all to see.
Our kickouts were brilliant in Croke Park in the League Final - I think Fermanagh learned a lot from that day and that, together with a much tighter pitch, meant we were always under pressure from our own kickout and did not get much around the middle.
Agree with what a lot of others said - Fermanagh much the better team - well drilled, disciplined and have a game plan that makes the most of their resources. The influence of Ricey is also very evident in some of Fermanagh's 'play' and I can see why Rory gets into so many scrapes on the sideline.
Let's face it - Armagh simply do not have the payers to make much of a dent in the Championship, but I would expect more from what was there, particularly when there are trips abroad where some meaningful preparation can take place. It also brings into sharp focus the absence of so many players who would be starting.
A depressing evening.
+1
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 19, 2018, 09:17:41 PM
Watching Armagh regularly since our great first round victory over Cavan in May 1977. Some great days since, but of course some abject performances as well. The capitulation at home to Derry in 1995 and the car crash against Wexford in Croke Park in 2008 are two that come to mind. That is right up there with them.
An absolutely poverty stricken performance of brainless tactics, terrible shooting, terrible passing, taking the wrong optins, running into cul de sacs, indiscipline in the tackle etc etc. Absolutely awful. Our age old failing of struggling against a defensive system was there for all to see.
Our kickouts were brilliant in Croke Park in the League Final - I think Fermanagh learned a lot from that day and that, together with a much tighter pitch, meant we were always under pressure from our own kickout and did not get much around the middle.
Agree with what a lot of others said - Fermanagh much the better team - well drilled, disciplined and have a game plan that makes the most of their resources. The influence of Ricey is also very evident in some of Fermanagh's 'play' and I can see why Rory gets into so many scrapes on the sideline.
Let's face it - Armagh simply do not have the payers to make much of a dent in the Championship, but I would expect more from what was there, particularly when there are trips abroad where some meaningful preparation can take place. It also brings into sharp focus the absence of so many players who would be starting.
A depressing evening.
No harm Rufus but I have to disagree. Armagh were terrible but the crap that Fermanagh get up to is what is driving people away from football. They are not the only ones. How many bothered going to match today ! The sad thing is that Armagh do not need to improve their discipline to win matches. They need to learn a crap game plan and take a degree in the dark arts. Aidan Forker has went from a nark to a saint. He deserves credit for not losing the head considering the amount of off the ball abuse he got. Abuse that went through a myriad of players and management. Fermanagh people may say it is sour grapes but I live Gaelic football and the game is being destroyed. Just look at Mayo v Galway last week.
Anyone who was expecting a great game has to remember that Armagh are poor & Fermanagh are managed by Rory Gallagher who, in my opinion, represents everything that is bad in modern day football.
Not all is doom & gloom though, Donegal V Cavan last Sunday was a great 70 mins of open football with some great long range scoring, no diving or histrionics on the sideline.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 19, 2018, 09:29:32 PM
No harm Rufus but I have to disagree. Armagh were terrible but the crap that Fermanagh get up to is what is driving people away from football. They are not the only ones. How many bothered going to match today ! The sad thing is that Armagh do not need to improve their discipline to win matches. They need to learn a crap game plan and take a degree in the dark arts. Aidan Forker has went from a nark to a saint. He deserves credit for not losing the head considering the amount of off the ball abuse he got. Abuse that went through a myriad of players and management. Fermanagh people may say it is sour grapes but I live Gaelic football and the game is being destroyed. Just look at Mayo v Galway last week.
No harm taken at all - you are a regular poster whose views here and on our own site I would respect.
However I will disagree with you on this one. I wasn't at the game, but the TV images/ sounds clearly enabled the viewer to see and indeed hear what was going on. That cannot explain our wrong options, misplaced passes, awful shooting, carrying the ball into contact, terrible indiscipline in the tackle - as was the case in the League Final - to name but a few.
Congratulations to Fermanagh, they were the better side and thoroughly deserved their victory. They were the team that really learned the most from the two league encounters and in Rory Gallagher they have a manager who can get them going and get the most out of them. Well done.
As for Armagh, where do even begin with this car crash? It was like watching the Down performance from last year all over again. We came into this game off a good league campaign and despite having some injuries, all seemed set up for a strong performance and a really good chance of winning. But yet again, we just did not show up in the Ulster Championship and couldn't unlock a packed defence. We hit wide after wide, committed more fouls than I could count and turned the ball over constantly. When we watch Tyrone or Monaghan play them in a few weeks I'm certain we'll see them tear them apart (like they would have done to us if we'd won). They have the tactical nous and players to be able combat it. We don't. We had a great run through the Qualifiers last season, which made up for the dire performance against Down. But it certainly hasn't repaired it.
Last season we had our strongest panel in years available to us, which allowed us to get a good run in the Championship. This year we didn't, but league form suggested that we had unearthed some players who mightn't replace those not there, but would certainly bring some quality to the team. Tonight showed the vast difference between League and Championship. In the league, when teams are experimenting with players and systems and results don't ultimately matter to some teams, we looked great. Like last year against Down and years before, when we come up against defensive teams in the heat of Championship, we just don't have it. Would having Stefan Campbell, Oisin O'Neill, James Morgan and Jamie Clarke available in this game made a difference tonight? Probably, but not necessarily enough to help us win. I'm not mentioning those players to make excuses, but more to highlight the fact that we knew these players who could make a difference wouldn't be available and still couldn't work out a way from preseason to now and in training camps in Portugal to counteract and unlock what we knew would be a defensive Fermanagh set up. Absolutely shocking.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 19, 2018, 09:43:01 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 19, 2018, 09:29:32 PM
No harm Rufus but I have to disagree. Armagh were terrible but the crap that Fermanagh get up to is what is driving people away from football. They are not the only ones. How many bothered going to match today ! The sad thing is that Armagh do not need to improve their discipline to win matches. They need to learn a crap game plan and take a degree in the dark arts. Aidan Forker has went from a nark to a saint. He deserves credit for not losing the head considering the amount of off the ball abuse he got. Abuse that went through a myriad of players and management. Fermanagh people may say it is sour grapes but I live Gaelic football and the game is being destroyed. Just look at Mayo v Galway last week.
No harm taken at all - you are a regular poster whose views here and on our own site I would respect.
However I will disagree with you on this one. I wasn't at the game, but the TV images/ sounds clearly enabled the viewer to see and indeed hear what was going on. That cannot explain our wrong options, misplaced passes, awful shooting, carrying the ball into contact, terrible indiscipline in the tackle - as was the case in the League Final - to name but a few.
I cannot really disagree with your analysis of Armagh. I just don't think Fermanagh were a better football team. They were just better at destroying the game and winning at any cost. It is these tactics now endemic in the game that are driving people away. I would even guess it was one reason you didn't go!
Fermanagh were worthy winners. They were better from 1-15 and on the sideline. I'd be disappointed with the antics of some of your players good my down as if they had been shot fairly regularly.
What did Grimley do? I missed it myself
Stuck his forearm into a Fermanagh man's face. Had to walk.
The reality is that McGeeney & Co yet again decided to go for a stupid psychological prep, name players out of position, changing the starting team at the last minute, building tactics around the opposition, all instead of playing to their own plan and making the opposition change its plan.
How about having a simple plan to name your team, go out and play the game to your own strengths.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 19, 2018, 09:53:06 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 19, 2018, 09:43:01 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 19, 2018, 09:29:32 PM
No harm Rufus but I have to disagree. Armagh were terrible but the crap that Fermanagh get up to is what is driving people away from football. They are not the only ones. How many bothered going to match today ! The sad thing is that Armagh do not need to improve their discipline to win matches. They need to learn a crap game plan and take a degree in the dark arts. Aidan Forker has went from a nark to a saint. He deserves credit for not losing the head considering the amount of off the ball abuse he got. Abuse that went through a myriad of players and management. Fermanagh people may say it is sour grapes but I live Gaelic football and the game is being destroyed. Just look at Mayo v Galway last week.
No harm taken at all - you are a regular poster whose views here and on our own site I would respect.
However I will disagree with you on this one. I wasn't at the game, but the TV images/ sounds clearly enabled the viewer to see and indeed hear what was going on. That cannot explain our wrong options, misplaced passes, awful shooting, carrying the ball into contact, terrible indiscipline in the tackle - as was the case in the League Final - to name but a few.
I cannot really disagree with your analysis of Armagh. I just don't think Fermanagh were a better football team. They were just better at destroying the game and winning at any cost. It is these tactics now endemic in the game that are driving people away. I would even guess it was one reason you didn't go!
It was the reason I didn't go (mostly). The game 95% of the time is diabolical. I've better things to spend my money on. It's bad enough watching it at home (when I can even be bothered to do that).
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 19, 2018, 10:34:35 PM
The reality is that McGeeney & Co yet again decided to go for a stupid psychological prep, name players out of position, changing the starting team at the last minute, building tactics around the opposition, all instead of playing to their own plan and making the opposition change its plan.
How about having a simple plan to name your team, go out and play the game to your own strengths.
Thats exactly the problem. They are building a system and trying to get players to fit into system instead of looking at players and seeing what game plan would get the most out the players you have. They are also implementing this system through all the development and underage teams and it is not working there either. Serious review of Armagh set up is needed.
Also do not buy the line that there is no players in Armagh of a good county standard.
Best of luck to Fermanagh in next round. Deserved winners tonight.
Football is simple and it is complicated by people who believe in systems over skills. I have always. Even if the opinion that the basics are the key and it you can do them better than the man beside you in the opposite jersey then this increases the changes of winning. The fundamentals are the basic building blocks and I get the feeling that armagh don't know what they are. It won't change and that's the reality. Too many people in key positions are happy with the status hip remaining
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 19, 2018, 10:59:03 PM
Football is simple and it is complicated by people who believe in systems over skills. I have always. Even if the opinion that the basics are the key and it you can do them better than the man beside you in the opposite jersey then this increases the changes of winning. The fundamentals are the basic building blocks and I get the feeling that armagh don't know what they are. It won't change and that's the reality. Too many people in key positions are happy with the status hip remaining
I'd agree 100%.
It's truly odd just how many people are determined that complex systems, and focusing on the oppositon instead on your own team, will make average players into good players.
As for the naming of incorrect teams and bizarre positional switches. Down players from 1991 and 94 played in a remarkably simple time; when you put your best 15 on the field in the best arrangement to make the most of their abilities. And it produced success. Yet a succession of those players have convinced themselves that their role as managers is to focus on the "extra 2%", instead of the initial 100%.
Armagh's class of 2003 also enjoyed remarkably uncomplicated tactics and a straightforward duel in the sun approach to team formations and announcements. Yet as managers, those players just don't seem to believe in that approach.
Bad evening for Ard Mocha.
Armagh supporters thought success would be instant when Geezer took over but they need to wake up and smell the coffee. They mistakenly thought the players would be full of beans once they reached the ground in Enniskillen today, and there could now be trouble brewing after the team's roasting.
There was never going to be a latte comeback this evening without their Americano.
It was a flat (orange and) white performance - one could even say it was crappuccino - they were made mugs of, and there will be no cups heading to the Orchard county this year. But hopefully supporters of other counties will refrain from indulging in some Orange Mocha-ing.
For Fermanagh supporters however, if they could finally win the Ulster title this year it would be very much a case of Au Lait, Au Lait, Au Lait.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 19, 2018, 10:59:03 PM
Football is simple and it is complicated by people who believe in systems over skills. I have always. Even if the opinion that the basics are the key and it you can do them better than the man beside you in the opposite jersey then this increases the changes of winning. The fundamentals are the basic building blocks and I get the feeling that armagh don't know what they are. It won't change and that's the reality. Too many people in key positions are happy with the status hip remaining
Systems dominate when managers/coaches don't have the belief that their players can win a game with the ability, skills and desire they have or can develop with good coaching and concentration on the simplicity of the game; tackling/defending, kicking accurately and scoring. When the basic skills are second nature and players are free to concentrate on playing the game better decision-making develops, players are free to play and enjoy the game. Systems clog the mind, stultify the game and discourage/prevent genius from the best and good decisions from the others.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 19, 2018, 11:23:29 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 19, 2018, 10:59:03 PM
Football is simple and it is complicated by people who believe in systems over skills. I have always. Even if the opinion that the basics are the key and it you can do them better than the man beside you in the opposite jersey then this increases the changes of winning. The fundamentals are the basic building blocks and I get the feeling that armagh don't know what they are. It won't change and that's the reality. Too many people in key positions are happy with the status hip remaining
Systems dominate when managers/coaches don't have the belief that their players can win a game with the ability, skills and desire they have or can develop with good coaching and concentration on the simplicity of the game; tackling/defending, kicking accurately and scoring. When the basic skills are second nature and players are free to concentrate on playing the game better decision-making develops, players are free to play and enjoy the game. Systems clog the mind, stultify the game and discourage/prevent genius from the best and good decisions from the others.
Systems dominate where managers don't have belief in their own ability or courage in their convictions.
I don't think I can recall seeing as bad a performance by an Armagh team. What's left of the 2014 team that beat us? They weren't world beaters then but today's performance they looked like a division 4 team.
Just weak all over, even some of their kick outs were going to isolated Armagh players amongst 3 or 4 Fermanagh players which ended up coming back down the field as scores seconds later.
Definitely would be surprised if what we saw today was the best talent in that county.
That said fair play to Fermanagh they were vastly superior all over the field.
I said it for a long time, mcgeeney is a a spoofer. Surely his more ardent supporters can see this now.
Quote from: Itchy on May 19, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
I said it for a long time, mcgeeney is a a spoofer. Surely his more ardent supporters can see this now.
Only a similar run like last year will save him now.
Fair play to Fermanagh but Armagh seem a right shambles.
Quote from: thejuice on May 19, 2018, 11:28:39 PM
I don't think I can recall seeing as bad a performance by an Armagh team. What's left of the 2014 team that beat us? They weren't world beaters then but today's performance they looked like a division 4 team.
Just weak all over, even some of their kick outs were going to isolated Armagh players amongst 3 or 4 Fermanagh players which ended up coming back down the field as scores seconds later.
Definitely would be surprised if what we saw today was the best talent in that county.
That said fair play to Fermanagh they were vastly superior all over the field.
Of the top of my head starters today that played against Meath then are Donaghy Vernon Shields and Forker.
Never mind tactics the biggest question I have about Armagh at the minute is why so many players are getting injured. Shields Vernon Rafferty Sheridan Hughes Grugan McShane McElroy among others all missed a number of weeks training in lead up to game due to injury. All but Grugan I think were muscle injuries.
Quote from: Itchy on May 19, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
I said it for a long time, mcgeeney is a a spoofer. Surely his more ardent supporters can see this now.
100%, that man has long been an embarrassment to himself
Congratulations to fermanagh. Well deserved.
On Armagh. Oh my god. I have long been a mcgeeney fan but enough is enough. Utter confusion runs through this set up. Everything is over thought, over coached, over analysed and over prepared. The players are effectively being sent out with hand cuffs on. Mcgeeney has surrounded himself with crap personnel (I wouldn't include mccorry in this as I have some respect for him). His (relative) success with Kildare came when he had a decent back room team around him.
I felt sorry for Hughes, donaghy, Murnin tonight. Many of the others playing tonight are simply not good enough. Even if the management and coaching were ok,
Armagh is not a strong enough county to be able to compete without so many good footballers. We are missing players such as:
- heffron, Morgan, ohanlon
- o.oneill
- r.oneill, Campbell, Clarke, c.rafferty
I'm presuming crossmaglen will have someone at the head of the management set up next year. The question is who. I presume Tony mcentee will be favourite as his journey with mayo looks like coming to an end this year
Quote from: stephenite on May 20, 2018, 12:32:10 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 19, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
I said it for a long time, mcgeeney is a a spoofer. Surely his more ardent supporters can see this now.
100%, that man has long been an embarrassment to himself
And mayo would know all about how to embarrass themselves. David Brady. Aidan O'Shea. John omahony. Donal Vaughan, Caolan O'Connor.
regal are you a a bit of a Spoofer youself?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 19, 2018, 10:59:03 PM
Football is simple and it is complicated by people who believe in systems over skills. I have always. Even if the opinion that the basics are the key and it you can do them better than the man beside you in the opposite jersey then this increases the changes of winning. The fundamentals are the basic building blocks and I get the feeling that armagh don't know what they are. It won't change and that's the reality. Too many people in key positions are happy with the status hip remaining
I am not expert in football, there are several hundred in Cross' alone who know more than me. But things like the sloppy tackling by Armagh were obvious 4 years ago and the same failings are obvious today. We failed to point several scorable frees and 45s. I'm not saying the talent is there to win Sam, but we have 3 times the pick of Fermanagh and that should be obvious on the field of play.
A surreal evening in Enniskillen where we won pulling up, and the result wasn't really in doubt when we registered the 1st score of the second half. I can only go back to wins against Antrim in the early 90's where we have been as comfortable. That said, the performance was quite patchy with decent defensive performances from Cullen, McMahon and Mulrone as well as total dominance in the middle from Jones and Donnelly. The fact that Armagh conceded midfield from the off gave our two lads the freedom to drive forward with Jones particularly impressive in the first half with 2 great scores.
However from midfield forward we were poor. Half forward line works hard, but don't do enough to bring our inside scoring threat into the game, and the lack of movement from Seamus/Sean/Conall was worrying. I think we need a bit of pace to play slightly deeper, and wouldn't be surprised to see Tomas start in place of Sean the next day.
Tyrone/Monaghan on reviewing tonight's game would see nothing to concern them, so a lot of work for Rory and co in the next 2 weeks. We'll enjoy tonight though as victories over Armagh are a rare commodity.
The context of the game can't ignore that Armagh were a shambles - tactically devoid, in my view surprisingly poorly conditioned with a lot of limited footballers on show. Their poor shot selection and general panic that was evident all through the 2nd half made this more comfortable for Fermanagh than it should have been.
Final word on the ref. If this is how championship 2018 is being officiated I'm looking forward to the 10 v 10 games we will see in the super 8's. Neilan blew for all physical contact where legal or not, and some of the frees awarded to both sides were mind boggling. Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2018, 09:56:12 AM
I'd like to personally wish Fermanagh all the best today.
Honeslty I believe this was the crucial element in tonight's win
Quote from: Erne Man on May 20, 2018, 02:09:24 AM
A surreal evening in Enniskillen where we won pulling up, and the result wasn't really in doubt when we registered the 1st score of the second half. I can only go back to wins against Antrim in the early 90's where we have been as comfortable. That said, the performance was quite patchy with decent defensive performances from Cullen, McMahon and Mulrone as well as total dominance in the middle from Jones and Donnelly. The fact that Armagh conceded midfield from the off gave our two lads the freedom to drive forward with Jones particularly impressive in the first half with 2 great scores.
However from midfield forward we were poor. Half forward line works hard, but don't do enough to bring our inside scoring threat into the game, and the lack of movement from Seamus/Sean/Conall was worrying. I think we need a bit of pace to play slightly deeper, and wouldn't be surprised to see Tomas start in place of Sean the next day.
Tyrone/Monaghan on reviewing tonight's game would see nothing to concern them, so a lot of work for Rory and co in the next 2 weeks. We'll enjoy tonight though as victories over Armagh are a rare commodity.
The context of the game can't ignore that Armagh were a shambles - tactically devoid, in my view surprisingly poorly conditioned with a lot of limited footballers on show. Their poor shot selection and general panic that was evident all through the 2nd half made this more comfortable for Fermanagh than it should have been.
Final word on the ref. If this is how championship 2018 is being officiated I'm looking forward to the 10 v 10 games we will see in the super 8's. Neilan blew for all physical contact where legal or not, and some of the frees awarded to both sides were mind boggling. Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
Watched sending off on iPlayer. At first glance it looked harsh but replays would suggest it was the correct decision. Niall laid the ball of and Quigley was running towards him. I assume Niall thought he was going to check his run and he put his arm up to stop him and caught him with his forearm in the face.
Random point, early on the morning after.
Futility of the competition is now even more obvious for Armagh supporters. All we hear is that a good run in the qualifiers is the best we can hope for. What's the point?
Armagh had a good run when they played teams of similar or worse ability in Division 3 and played on a regular basis. Qualifiers might suit them if they were to meet similar teams but that may not happen this year.
Armagh under current management cannot handle a longish period of preparation before a championship game as shown in the last four years.
The qualifiers will not be as handy for Armagh this year as has happened in the past years. The a/b arrangement is gone. An open draw in round one could see an end to the season if they pull a much better team from Division 1 or 2 and that might not be a bad thing.
If Armagh by some stroke of luck made it to the Super 8s they were be hammered over three games.
At least yesterday's defeat prevented further embarrassment against Tyrone or Monaghan.
The pig headed or head in the sand or whatever you want to call it approach by not just the county board but the club delegates who have approved their decisions to continue with McGeeney for the last four years will probably continue for another year.
Time for a B championship to give hope for half the teams in the country.
The best that Armagh can consider for the foreseeable future is to try and win 3/4 games in a row to win a championship. If they fail to do so then qualifiers is a waste of resources for the county board and for the supporters travelling around the country to be tortured.
8000+ supporters at yesterday's game was an indictment of how far football has fallen as something worth going to see live. Systems have destroyed the game for the supporters' enjoyment.
Shambles of a performance from Armagh and genuinely I have no appetite to follow them in the back door .
On seeing the team sheet on Friday I couldn't see where the scores were coming from and was proved right, we were ponderous and the shot selection was mind boggling.
Fermanagh had a game plan and stuck to it winning easily in the end.for me 4 years in under mc geeney and the defeats in the championship are getting harsher.
He has nowhere to go.
Interesting point though I think the game is falling away as a spectacle, was surprised how empty the groubd was but at £24 a ticket to watch what is an amateur game I think the gaa are losing the run of themselves.
A few good points Owen, some of which I would have sympathy with, although others that I would take issue with.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
Futility of the competition is now even more obvious for Armagh supporters. All we hear is that a good run in the qualifiers is the best we can hope for. What's the point?
Time for a B championship to give hope for half the teams in the country.
The best that Armagh can consider for the foreseeable future is to try and win 3/4 games in a row to win a championship. If they fail to do so then qualifiers is a waste of resources for the county board and for the supporters travelling around the country to be tortured.
I've lumped these together, because I feel they are related.
I can't help but feel these points are made from a dark place, with one of our worst performances ever still fresh in your mind. For the majority of the years of our existence, you could argue 'what's the point', as we only have 14 provincial championships out of the 120+ that were available. For many years, before the back door, we went into the Ulster Championship as no hopers and had a quick exit and then back to Club football. I still think that that is the reality of where we are today with regards Ulster. There are three teams who are playing at a level away beyond ours, and we would have to beat two of them to win an Ulster. That is not going to happen.
Oisin McConville talked about this last night on the TV - he said that after the Fermanagh defeat, our quest for silverware was effectively over, as we will not come within a hound's goul of an All Ireland. The reality though for me was that we had no real chance of winning an Ulster either. The reality is though that we now have qualifiers, and a run in those, without actually collecting a Cup, will be seen by us - as it is with many counties - to be success. With the commitment though being made by counties with regard to money, resources, time, I do think there is a very persuasive argument for at least two tiers in the Championship, as the sense I get is that the gap between the elite and the rest is growing, with the gap becoming unbridgeable. That will impact on crowds, revenue etc.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
Armagh had a good run when they played teams of similar or worse ability in Division 3 and played on a regular basis. Qualifiers might suit them if they were to meet similar teams but that may not happen this year.
The qualifiers will not be as handy for Armagh this year as has happened in the past years. The a/b arrangement is gone. An open draw in round one could see an end to the season if they pull a much better team from Division 1 or 2 and that might not be a bad thing.
I don't think there is much of a difference here between last year and this year. There will be some big fish in the draw - Mayo and the losers of Monaghan and Tyrone - but there will be many others who could offer hope for progress.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
At least yesterday's defeat prevented further embarrassment against Tyrone or Monaghan. If Armagh by some stroke of luck made it to the Super 8s they were be hammered over three games.
Agreed and agreed. Progress to the Super 8s would still represent a very good season though.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 07:52:46 AM
Armagh under current management cannot handle a longish period of preparation before a championship game as shown in the last four years.
The pig headed or head in the sand or whatever you want to call it approach by not just the county board but the club delegates who have approved their decisions to continue with McGeeney for the last four years will probably continue for another year.
Management will come under scrutiny here - undoubtedly. However there are thin lines between what is considered success and failure. That was no more evident than in 2017. We were robbed by Tipp of promotion with virtually the last kick of the last game of the 2017 league. If we had avoided that goal, got promoted, then that, together with our qualifier run to the All Ireland quarter-finals, would have represented nearly the best (realistically) possible scenario any Armagh fan could have hoped for.
However there is a flip side to that coin. Failing to get promoted, we really should have been dumped out of the qualifiers by Westmeath in Mullingar last year, but they spurned a number of gilt edged chances when they had us on the ropes. We broke up the pitch and got the winning goal. From there we reached an All Ireland quarter-final. Failure to get promoted, and being dumped out by Westmeath would have represented a terrible season and I'm not sure McGeeney would have survived. Thin lines...
By County Board above, I assume you mean County Executive, as the club delegates are the County Board. I feel McGeeney earned himself another year after 2017, and given promotion to Division 2, there will be an argument for keeping him on again for 2019. It will be interesting to see how we go over the next number of weeks, as that could be a factor.
I realize last night was a shocker, and the players we had should be doing better, particularly in light of the preparation for this game, but bear in mind that we are no world beaters, even if we could put out our strongest side, and last night - for a variety of reasons - was well below what would be considered our best 15. That could also be a factor to be considered if the future of management is discussed.
£24 per adult and £5 for under 16s is too dear.
It was a very poor crowd considering the weather.
Same last week in Ballybofey.
Yep far too expensive, there'll be even less in Newry on Saturday evening, I'd expect 7k approx!
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
[/quote]
Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.
Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.
[/quote]
You aren't allowed to make 15 substitutions and there were quite a few worse than him. If Armagh are to progress they need to find more players like him. One rash moment and people would lynch a fella. If Dublin had taken that route in 2003 when Cluxton kicked McDonnell they may not have as many All Ireland's.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 09:48:40 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.
You aren't allowed to make 15 substitutions and there were quite a few worse than him. If Armagh are to progress they need to find more players like him. One rash moment and people would lynch a fella. If Dublin had taken that route in 2003 when Cluxton kicked McDonnell they may not have as many All Ireland's.
[/quote]
Agree with this. Grimley was far from the worst up until his red.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2018, 11:22:54 PM
Bad evening for Ard Mocha.
Armagh supporters thought success would be instant when Geezer took over but they need to wake up and smell the coffee. They mistakenly thought the players would be full of beans once they reached the ground in Enniskillen today, and there could now be trouble brewing after the team's roasting.
There was never going to be a latte comeback this evening without their Americano.
It was a flat (orange and) white performance - one could even say it was crappuccino - they were made mugs of, and there will be no cups heading to the Orchard county this year. But hopefully supporters of other counties will refrain from indulging in some Orange Mocha-ing.
For Fermanagh supporters however, if they could finally win the Ulster title this year it would be very much a case of Au Lait, Au Lait, Au Lait.
Clever Sid. More entertaining than the game.
For the first time in my life I actually felt sorry for Armagh as, like ourselves, they are a proud and passionate county who are pretty poor at present. To keep some balance they have gone up to Division 2 while we are heading in the other direction.
However, it make me smile to read Armagh posters complaining about cynicism and gamesmanship. That's the problem with bringing negative innovations into what should be a fair and honest amateur sporting contest where the best 15 players win. Some other crowd get so pissed off with being caught out that they take on your tactics, get better at it and it becomes a race to the bottom.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on May 20, 2018, 09:55:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 19, 2018, 11:22:54 PM
Bad evening for Ard Mocha.
Armagh supporters thought success would be instant when Geezer took over but they need to wake up and smell the coffee. They mistakenly thought the players would be full of beans once they reached the ground in Enniskillen today, and there could now be trouble brewing after the team's roasting.
There was never going to be a latte comeback this evening without their Americano.
It was a flat (orange and) white performance - one could even say it was crappuccino - they were made mugs of, and there will be no cups heading to the Orchard county this year. But hopefully supporters of other counties will refrain from indulging in some Orange Mocha-ing.
For Fermanagh supporters however, if they could finally win the Ulster title this year it would be very much a case of Au Lait, Au Lait, Au Lait.
Clever Sid. More entertaining than the game.
For the first time in my life I actually felt sorry for Armagh as, like ourselves, they are a proud and passionate county who are pretty poor at present. To keep some balance they have gone up to Division 2 while we are heading in the other direction.
However, it make me smile to read Armagh posters complaining about cynicism and gamesmanship. That's the problem with bringing negative innovations into what should be a fair and honest amateur sporting contest where the best 15 players win. Some other crowd get so pissed off with being caught out that they take on your tactics, get better at it and it becomes a race to the bottom.
While I will undoubtedly disagree with your assessment no matter were this started something has to be done about it. The super 8 was introduced for money IMHO and these tactics are driving supporters away in their droves. Something needs to be done.
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 20, 2018, 09:51:05 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 09:48:40 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.
You aren't allowed to make 15 substitutions and there were quite a few worse than him. If Armagh are to progress they need to find more players like him. One rash moment and people would lynch a fella. If Dublin had taken that route in 2003 when Cluxton kicked McDonnell they may not have as many All Ireland's.
Agree with this. Grimley was far from the worst up until his red.
[/quote]
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to lynch the fella. My perception from watching the match was that Niall was having a poor game and that a few Fermanagh scores came directly from him and was not generally involved in the game at all. Sometimes this happens to players on any given day. Could be wrong but would need to watch it again. Agree that you could have subbed any amount of boys but some of the substitutions were baffling to say the least.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on May 20, 2018, 09:55:56 AM
For the first time in my life I actually felt sorry for Armagh as, like ourselves, they are a proud and passionate county who are pretty poor at present. To keep some balance they have gone up to Division 2 while we are heading in the other direction.
However, it make me smile to read Armagh posters complaining about cynicism and gamesmanship. That's the problem with bringing negative innovations into what should be a fair and honest amateur sporting contest where the best 15 players win. Some other crowd get so pissed off with being caught out that they take on your tactics, get better at it and it becomes a race to the bottom.
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
To be fair, probably the biggest insult you delivered - and I'm sure it was not your intention to do so - was to say as a Down man that you feel sorry for us!! Some may feel that that really represents the nadir. :)
If Armagh had converted half of their wide tally then they could have won. We could've achieved that easily with Oisin O'Neill or Jamie Clarke on the pitch, picking off balls laid off by Murnin.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on May 20, 2018, 09:55:56 AM
For the first time in my life I actually felt sorry for Armagh as, like ourselves, they are a proud and passionate county who are pretty poor at present. To keep some balance they have gone up to Division 2 while we are heading in the other direction.
However, it make me smile to read Armagh posters complaining about cynicism and gamesmanship. That's the problem with bringing negative innovations into what should be a fair and honest amateur sporting contest where the best 15 players win. Some other crowd get so pissed off with being caught out that they take on your tactics, get better at it and it becomes a race to the bottom.
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
To be fair, probably the biggest insult you delivered - and I'm sure it was not your intention to do so - was to say as a Down man that you feel sorry for us!! Some may feel that that really represents the nadir. :)
Fermanagh easily the better side. Could've won by more. Sending off correct too.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on May 20, 2018, 10:49:10 AM
Fermanagh easily the better side. Could've won by more. Sending off correct too.
Agree with all of that.
Armagh have been playing division 3 football for two years. You're expecting too much. If the talent was there, that wouldn't have happened. Armagh have played 14 division 3 games in 2 years and won 9 of them.
That 2014 side which knocked Tyrone out was the last decent outfit. You had two Kernans, Clarke and Mallon.
It's just a dip in the talent pool, systems or none.
And it's fcukin glorious.
Quote from: ONeill on May 20, 2018, 10:56:55 AM
And it's fcukin glorious.
;D
Just words Shane - I honestly believe your heart isn't in it to the same extent as yesteryear.
Armagh might have been playing Div 3, but so have Fermanagh. So that is no defence for yesterday's performance.
Quote from: ONeill on May 20, 2018, 10:56:55 AM
Armagh have been playing division 3 football for two years. You're expecting too much. If the talent was there, that wouldn't have happened. Armagh have played 14 division 3 games in 2 years and won 9 of them.
That 2014 side which knocked Tyrone out was the last decent outfit. You had two Kernans, Clarke and Mallon.
It's just a dip in the talent pool, systems or none.
And it's fcukin glorious.
Schadenfreude is lovely but it doesn't win all Irelands. Neither does groupthink.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/no-one-knows-where-tyrone-are-at-sean-cavanagh-hoping-to-see-impact-of-stephen-oneill-in-red-hand-attack-36915715.html
"Mickey's certainly the boss," Cavanagh responds when asked whether players have an input in team meetings. "No, no, you don't stand up, no. Mickey's very single-minded in his approach and I think anyone who knows him (feels the same)."
Cavanagh details "quite an autocratic style" of leadership during Harte's lengthy reign and doubts whether Tyrone will adopt a more attacking approach against Monaghan following their harrowing All-Ireland SFC semi-final loss to Dublin last August.
Would he have sacrificed an Ulster title to play more expansive football?
"It's easy to say it now but at the time, genuinely, and this is the big thing, when you're an inter-county footballer, and Mickey is a very convincing manager as well, whenever you're in that zone, you think nothing else but what Mickey is telling you.
"It's only on reflection afterwards that you realise that you would have liked maybe to try something different. At the time I was 100pc convinced that we'd win an All-Ireland last year.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
Owen you need to take the orange glasses off.
The 'treatment' that both Quigley brothers got yesterday was very noticeable.
I watched it and they didn't react.
Daniel Teague came off the bench and was immediately subject to the same 'treatment'.
Sean received a forearm in the face. That's a red card.
The Armagh tackling was shocking. Made it easy for the referee.
Armagh went out to be physical and try and bully Fermanagh.
Armagh didn't score from play after the 16th minute.
Armagh were completely cleaned around midfield as well.
That's why Armagh got beat.
Quote from: FermGael on May 20, 2018, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
Owen you need to take the orange glasses off.
The 'treatment' that both Quigley brothers got yesterday was very noticeable.
I watched it and they didn't react.
Daniel Teague came off the bench and was immediately subject to the same 'treatment'.
Sean received a forearm in the face. That's a red card.
The Armagh tackling was shocking. Made it easy for the referee.
Armagh went out to be physical and try and bully Fermanagh.
Armagh didn't score from play after the 16th minute.
Armagh were completely cleaned around midfield as well.
That's why Armagh got beat.
Armagh are always the victims.
Quote from: Orior on May 20, 2018, 10:34:00 AM
If Armagh had converted half of their wide tally then they could have won. We could've achieved that easily with Oisin O'Neill or Jamie Clarke on the pitch, picking off balls laid off by Murnin.
Armagh were never winning that game.
Fermanagh did a number all over the pitch so deserved to win and maybe could have pushed on further.
Have to say no11 for fer managh a tasty player if he could shoot, he was excellent as a link player all evening.
No22 got himself involved in a lot of nasty stuff in last couple of minutes and actually found myself hoping someone would chin him ,he didn't need to do it as game was over.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
Very unfair on Fermanagh to place all the praise for Armaghs defeat at the feet of a Tyrone Legend. Armagh state of ineptitude is solely the responsibility of money bags management. 4 Years first round exit not even Mickey Harte would survive that.
Its ironic to hear the crying about puke football from the province that invented it, yes other teams in other provinces now use it especially any team who have ulster input in their backroom team, Galway/Mayo in my own province being our local example, Dublin adapted it after their Donegal demise in 2014 but to their credit play football for the most part and their level of use is acceptable maybe. Mayo in fairness have played some tremendous football over the last number of years but their is an ugly edge of outright cheating to their play. Galway formally known as the aristocrats of football are now well and truly the aristoshits of puke football. Their are many other examples in other provinces.
Lets hope those teams playing the 13-1 system get well and truly stuffed this championship and we can return to some sort of a level of entertaining football.
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2018, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 20, 2018, 10:56:55 AM
Armagh have been playing division 3 football for two years. You're expecting too much. If the talent was there, that wouldn't have happened. Armagh have played 14 division 3 games in 2 years and won 9 of them.
That 2014 side which knocked Tyrone out was the last decent outfit. You had two Kernans, Clarke and Mallon.
It's just a dip in the talent pool, systems or none.
And it's fcukin glorious.
Schadenfreude is lovely but it doesn't win all Irelands. Neither does groupthink.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/no-one-knows-where-tyrone-are-at-sean-cavanagh-hoping-to-see-impact-of-stephen-oneill-in-red-hand-attack-36915715.html
"Mickey's certainly the boss," Cavanagh responds when asked whether players have an input in team meetings. "No, no, you don't stand up, no. Mickey's very single-minded in his approach and I think anyone who knows him (feels the same)."
Cavanagh details "quite an autocratic style" of leadership during Harte's lengthy reign and doubts whether Tyrone will adopt a more attacking approach against Monaghan following their harrowing All-Ireland SFC semi-final loss to Dublin last August.
Would he have sacrificed an Ulster title to play more expansive football?
"It's easy to say it now but at the time, genuinely, and this is the big thing, when you're an inter-county footballer, and Mickey is a very convincing manager as well, whenever you're in that zone, you think nothing else but what Mickey is telling you.
"It's only on reflection afterwards that you realise that you would have liked maybe to try something different. At the time I was 100pc convinced that we'd win an All-Ireland last year.
Sounds like he escaped a cult.
Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 10:26:56 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 20, 2018, 09:51:05 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 09:48:40 AM
Quote from: keeperlit on May 20, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
[quote author=Erne Man link=topic=28631.msg1808827#msg1808827 date=15 Didn't see what happened re the sending off, but I thought McGeeney was going to clock young Grimley when he came off - so I can only assume what he did was daft.
Should not have been in the field to get sent off as management should have had grimly subbed after about 20 mins into first half. Was having a stinker.
You aren't allowed to make 15 substitutions and there were quite a few worse than him. If Armagh are to progress they need to find more players like him. One rash moment and people would lynch a fella. If Dublin had taken that route in 2003 when Cluxton kicked McDonnell they may not have as many All Ireland's.
Agree with this. Grimley was far from the worst up until his red.
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to lynch the fella. My perception from watching the match was that Niall was having a poor game and that a few Fermanagh scores came directly from him and was not generally involved in the game at all. Sometimes this happens to players on any given day. Could be wrong but would need to watch it again. Agree that you could have subbed any amount of boys but some of the substitutions were baffling to say the least.
[/quote]
I get ye mate. I'm not saying he was having a good game, just that there were players who were having worse games. Crealy being one. He could have been subbed long before he was
Quote from: FermGael on May 20, 2018, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
Owen you need to take the orange glasses off.
The 'treatment' that both Quigley brothers got yesterday was very noticeable.
I watched it and they didn't react.
Daniel Teague came off the bench and was immediately subject to the same 'treatment'.
Sean received a forearm in the face. That's a red card.
The Armagh tackling was shocking. Made it easy for the referee.
Armagh went out to be physical and try and bully Fermanagh.
Armagh didn't score from play after the 16th minute.
Armagh were completely cleaned around midfield as well.
That's why Armagh got beat.
Armagh were crap. We know that. Our tackling was, and has been for a long time,poor.
However, the antics of your players in regards to going down as if shot was bad and I wouldn't be happy with it. The off the ball nonsense and blocking off runs I can take as we all do it. The sledging, while not pleasant, happens all the time too but I just don't like the feigning of injury.
Armagh should win their home game in Super 8's, the Athletic Grounds would be rocking. After that anything can happen.
McGeeney is highly-rated nationally and hasnt shied away from big challenges in the past. He will ensure Armagh bounce back.
The Quigley brothers looks a lot slimmer these days are they training more and eating less pizzas theses days?
I also see Ryan McMenamin is going for a Jesus look nowadays
(https://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF1030/1503608.jpg)
Quote from: FermGael on May 20, 2018, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
Owen you need to take the orange glasses off.
The 'treatment' that both Quigley brothers got yesterday was very noticeable.
I watched it and they didn't react.
Daniel Teague came off the bench and was immediately subject to the same 'treatment'.
Sean received a forearm in the face. That's a red card.
The Armagh tackling was shocking. Made it easy for the referee.
Armagh went out to be physical and try and bully Fermanagh.
Armagh didn't score from play after the 16th minute.
Armagh were completely cleaned around midfield as well.
That's why Armagh got beat.
I think I read earlier a Fermanagh contributor complaining that the referee wouldn't let any physical contact. Interesting how views differ
Just noticed Clare number 11 in hurling getting a yellow card for a similar tackle to the one Grimley got sent off for.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
Just noticed Clare number 11 in hurling getting a yellow card for a similar tackle to the one Grimley got sent off for.
That's because his opponent didn't roll around in feigned agony, clutching his face and took it in a manly fashion without trying to get his man sent off.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 04:39:21 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
Just noticed Clare number 11 in hurling getting a yellow card for a similar tackle to the one Grimley got sent off for.
That's because his opponent didn't roll around in feigned agony, clutching his face and took it in a manly fashion without trying to get his man sent off.
To be honest I reckon it's more to do with media punditry.
In hurling, the analysts describe anything short of a night in hospital as men being men. So the masses buy into this, and what referee really wants to go against the masses?
Whereas in football, there's a queue of absolute shithead analysts waiting to denounce anything and everything as GBH, especially when one of their own county's team is tackled. So everything goes under the spotlight, the public go up in arms, and referees have no choice but to do what is demanded off them.
The levels of diving and injury feigning in our game is directly related to this too.
And I thought they looked good in their League Final and was expecting a good year from Armagh
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
Just noticed Clare number 11 in hurling getting a yellow card for a similar tackle to the one Grimley got sent off for.
One was in play one was off the ball. May have had something to do with it
Quote from: gortnaleck on May 20, 2018, 04:57:52 PM
And I thought they looked good in their League Final and was expecting a good year from Armagh
It was D3 in fairness.
Quote from: Itchy on May 19, 2018, 11:32:58 PM
I said it for a long time, mcgeeney is a a spoofer. Surely his more ardent supporters can see this now.
The qualifiers could rescue him again. It's pointless to say he needs to reach the super 8 or last 12 to save his job (ahem) as we could Mayo or Tyrone early doors and is likely to be a wipe out. As an absolute minimum we need to beat someone in Division 1 or 2 or if imagine the mans own self respect will demand that he passes on the baton to someone with fresh ideas and methods.
The mental side of the game manifests itself in decision making, resilience, discipline and confidence in your own ability and game plan. We are deeply fragile in all these respects. Either Geezer is s fraud on the psychological and man management sides of things are our entire playing squad are freakishly weak.
Tactically we are a joke. We have a poor plan A and no plan B. Before today's game Harte said you need to fully prepared for what you expect and also have an ability to react to what you don't expect. We score 0/10 in both respects.
Looking at the so called tactics and set up we started the game with yesterday you begin to get an idea why most of our most talented forwards opt out.
2 points down at HT Fermanagh were late on the field for the restart. We were lined out in the throw in formation. Looking at a half forward line of McShane, Forker and Shields you begin to realise we ain't going to work the scores. The red card then sealed it but saw nothing that indicated that with 15 on the pitch that we would have done it
Can honestly say I never thought I would see an Armagh team play like that.
Completely spineless and clueless all over the field.
What tactics did ye play during the league? Have to assume ye have never played against a blanket defence before and didnt plan for it.
Seemed your plan was to give it to 11 and 23 (I think) and let them run as far as they could with it before hitting the blanket defence & handpassing to someone (irrespective of the position the receiver was in).
Someone of the Fermanagh behaviour was less than desirable but at the end of the day its all about winning at this level.
Fermanagh are no great outfit but they have a belief and hunger that will get them past most average teams. Not Monaghan though who will win pulling up.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2018, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 04:39:21 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
Just noticed Clare number 11 in hurling getting a yellow card for a similar tackle to the one Grimley got sent off for.
That's because his opponent didn't roll around in feigned agony, clutching his face and took it in a manly fashion without trying to get his man sent off.
To be honest I reckon it's more to do with media punditry.
In hurling, the analysts describe anything short of a night in hospital as men being men. So the masses buy into this, and what referee really wants to go against the masses?
Whereas in football, there's a queue of absolute shithead analysts waiting to denounce anything and everything as GBH, especially when one of their own county's team is tackled. So everything goes under the spotlight, the public go up in arms, and referees have no choice but to do what is demanded off them.
The levels of diving and injury feigning in our game is directly related to this too.
Agree with you here wobbler
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 20, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
From my own point of view, my intention to referencing the cynicism of Fermanagh was simply to present it as an observation on my part - not a complaint. Armagh last night have too many concerns of our own to worry about what others do.
Our great team of the noughties had a reputation for cynicism, but my feeling would be it was not for trash talking or feigning injury, or indeed disrupting the opposition kick-outs by pinging a second football onto the pitch. Maybe others will disagree and point to some specific incident from 2007 that totally undermines what I said. Ho hum.
The behaviour yesterday from Fermanagh was no surprise given that McMenamin is in the management team. it would have been poor enough with Gallagher in charge but McMenamin bring things to another level, to that previously was the preserve of his Tyrone teams.
In general the squad from 1999 to 2008 played a hard game and while blocking off the running player was a tactic and not against any rule, the players with the possible exception of Marty O'Rourke didn't bother with the trash talk that was so evident yesterday from the Fermanagh team. They have taken the feigning of injury to a level that Tyrone have set since 2003. While Grimley was stupid in swinging his arm, Quigley, who has serious form for cheating, fell to the ground instantly holding his face.
He got clocked in the face ffs ;D
Armagh tackling was that indisciplined they were regularly making contact with the face. Yer man crealey was like a windmill, it was brutal. The reference on commentary re players going down referred to both teams - there'd been a good shot of murnin going down holding his face shortly before when no contact with it.
Like the DOC elbow last week it was stupid and dangerous and he deserved the red.
Quigley fell to the ground holding his face - where would you suggest he holds ;D
Lets hope the referees are consistent in this for the remainder of the championship
Where will the Fermanagh v Monaghan game be played?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 21, 2018, 10:16:41 AM
Where will the Fermanagh v Monaghan game be played?
Omagh in 2 weeks
There has been a growing frustration within the county (as I alluded to in my pre-match post) that the best players in the county are starting to turn their back on inter-county football in Armagh. Obviously people will say that this is a countrywide issue and it is. I do feel it is magnified in Armagh by the fact that we have a small enough playing population and it also being driven by our manager also. If I see him being quoted again in the Irish News saying that he has a panel of players that "want to play for the jersey/Armagh" I'll scream. When I read that I translate it to a panel of players that are willing to sacrifice their commitment to their clubs. Not all of our players that are county standard want to do that and some element of flexibility must come into play to address the situation (see Paul Grimley's reign as Armagh manager as a precedent). It feels like he is running a cult and if you don't adhere to the rules you're on the outside. This must be addressed by the stakeholders within the county set-up.
From last October we knew that we were going to play a Rory Gallagher led Fermanagh who were going to be uber-defensive. In fairness it is up to the Fermanagh management to set up whatever way they like. It is, however, up to our management to come up with a plan to dismantle it. I don't know what they were doing in Portugal but it obviously wasn't conjuring up a plan to break down a mass defence. Yet again this Armagh team failed miserably against a blanket defence. TSG analysis last night showed how Monaghan used angles of running and speed off the shoulder to break down Tyrone's defence. It's not rocket science!!
We have players who have the speed to punch holes in a blanket if the game plan is there to utilise it. I felt that Mark Shields tried very hard to use his speed to great effect. I felt Mini McShane did too and was harshly taken off.
Our manager's attitude to club football means that he is rarely (never!) at club matches to see who's going well. I would actually use Mini McShane is an example of what I'm talking about. I have watched Mini over a few years now ripping holes in club defences within the county and always felt that he should be tried at inter county level and in fairness he was. He is however an exception rather than the rule. There are several more McShane's in the county and they need to be brought into the county setup. There has to be a sea change in the attitude of our management to see this happen.
Desperate stuff on Sat evening. Poor from Armagh and Fermanagh under Gallagher and McMenamin are becoming the poster boys for anti-football, diving and play acting.
Firstly, congrats to Fermanagh on their win and the deserved it thoroughly...Armagh were pathetic and got what they deserved.
Secondly, the ticket prices were a joke. I paid £24 to sit on the most uncomfortable D Rail timber fence ever...fecking joke.
On the match...KmcG's boat has sailed, I'm never one for lambasting players or management as I played the game and I know how hard it is and the fools on the side lines shouting the biggest load of tripe don't help but Kieran has had his time and has not made any head way at all. Armagh were clueless all over the field, even their go-to men (Vernon, Donaghy, Forker etc) were shockingly bad. Ethan Raferty was clearly not fit to play and how he was kept on so long was embarrassing, Crealey' tackling was so bad and didn't know where to run or where not to run was unreal. There was not one Armagh man I could have said afterwards done himself proud and the Irish News today gave almost everyone a 6 outta 10...WTF, was i watching a different match to the Irish News guy?
On another note...Are we getting carried away or are we realistic with our talent pool, we're a small County with limited resources and are we always expecting to be better than the players available to us (silk purse outts sow's ear). Don't be jumping all over me for this as i know Fermanagh have a smaller County than us and apparently on the Sunday Game last night Monaghan only have 3 Counties in Ireland with a smaller population...I'm just asking are our targets for our County set too high or should we be doing much better with the players we do have?
Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
On another note...Are we getting carried away or are we realistic with our talent pool, we're a small County with limited resources and are we always expecting to be better than the players available to us (silk purse outts sow's ear). Don't be jumping all over me for this as i know Fermanagh have a smaller County than us and apparently on the Sunday Game last night Monaghan only have 3 Counties in Ireland with a smaller population...I'm just asking are our targets for our County set too high or should we be doing much better with the players we do have?
I get what you're saying. We won't/can't win Ulster at the minute (AIs aren't even in the conversation) but we have players that can/will see us compete at mid/top of Division 2 standard. All we want our management to be able to do is have us playing at or towards our best. Nobody can say that that's what happened on Saturday evening. The one thing I will say is that McGeeney has us playing attractive football when we're allowed to (e.g Kildare match last year) but when we come up against a blanket defence which is still prevalent in today's football we are lost. We need to get all our best players back in the fold for the League campaign otherwise we will find ourselves dropping back into Division 3 AGAIN! Whether this management can address this situation is subject to debate.
Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
Firstly, congrats to Fermanagh on their win and the deserved it thoroughly...Armagh were pathetic and got what they deserved.
Secondly, the ticket prices were a joke. I paid £24 to sit on the most uncomfortable D Rail timber fence ever...fecking joke.
I paid £30 in o'neills the morning of the game :'(
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2018, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 20, 2018, 04:39:21 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 20, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
Just noticed Clare number 11 in hurling getting a yellow card for a similar tackle to the one Grimley got sent off for.
That's because his opponent didn't roll around in feigned agony, clutching his face and took it in a manly fashion without trying to get his man sent off.
To be honest I reckon it's more to do with media punditry.
In hurling, the analysts describe anything short of a night in hospital as men being men. So the masses buy into this, and what referee really wants to go against the masses?
Whereas in football, there's a queue of absolute shithead analysts waiting to denounce anything and everything as GBH, especially when one of their own county's team is tackled. So everything goes under the spotlight, the public go up in arms, and referees have no choice but to do what is demanded off them.
The levels of diving and injury feigning in our game is directly related to this too.
I think the pundits are marginal, Wobbler. The main problem is the definition of the tackle and the consistency with which refs interpret it. I also think the game has evolved beyond the point where one ref can be in total control.
That's one of the worst performances i have ever seen from Armagh. You could have called that the match was only going to go one way from about 15/20 mins in. Armagh looked lacklustre and clueless from the get-go. Simple things easily fell apart.
I agree that KMCG has had his day and it is time to try a different approach.
Would i be right in saying yesterday was the first in a long time that no Crossmaglen men lined out for Armagh...Not sure about dates as i know there was something in the paper about this a few weeks back, think it was mid 90's
In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice. The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are. Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left.
Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist. Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on May 21, 2018, 02:51:50 PM
In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice. The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are. Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left.
Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist. Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.
Majority of those Armagh people witnessed an era where they won 7 out of 10 Ulsters Championships so naturally there's a bit of expectancy in the County. I don't think anyone thinks they should be challenging for AI's but you'd think they'd have managed to win at least one game in the province in the last 4 years. Its not good enough for a manager in his 4th year.
Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
Would i be right in saying yesterday was the first in a long time that no Crossmaglen men lined out for Armagh...Not sure about dates as i know there was something in the paper about this a few weeks back, think it was mid 90's
First time in 22 years apparently
Quote from: haranguerer on May 21, 2018, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
Firstly, congrats to Fermanagh on their win and the deserved it thoroughly...Armagh were pathetic and got what they deserved.
Secondly, the ticket prices were a joke. I paid £24 to sit on the most uncomfortable D Rail timber fence ever...fecking joke.
I paid £30 in o'neills the morning of the game :'(
Brewster seats are the most uncomfortable I've ever sat on.
Next to that is Tralee. No backs on the seats. Them tight Kerry hoors :D
QuoteWhat happened to Orchard's Spartan approach?
It is 22 years since Armagh selected a Championship panel that did not include a single Crossmaglen Rangers man. That came about because of an injury to corner-back Paul Hughes, but still you imagine that the county team could have been doing with the likes of Rian and Oisín O'Neill, James Morgan, and even the New York domiciled Jamie Clarke.
Fifteen to twenty years ago, what made Armagh great under Kieran McGeeney's captaincy was their Spartan approach. They went to a pre-Championship training camp but stayed in local digs, some sleeping on camp beds. They went to the salubrious Brown's Complex in Vilamoura at the end of April to prepare for this game, while Fermanagh stayed at the local Lough Erne Golf Resort, and trained in Brewster Park, examining the dimensions of the pitch and fine-tuning their gameplan. You have to ask yourself, which county made the most of their resources? One final line, added value and all that; Fermanagh had five sets of brothers in their panel.
Declan Bogue
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/talking-points-tipperary-supporters-have-to-make-do-with-the-sound-of-silence-from-top-table-470917.html
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on May 21, 2018, 02:51:50 PM
In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice. The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are. Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left.
Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist. Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.
Even if you accept that Armagh should be bracketed with Fermanagh, a county one third our size, then they should give them a proper game.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2018, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on May 21, 2018, 02:51:50 PM
In my opinion the Armagh job is a poisoned chalice. The fans are deluded into thinking they are better than what they are. Arguably the best players don't want to play and the talent to compete isn't there from what is left.
Has Mc Geeney has his day in the sun, possibly, but it doesn't matter who is taking that team, the core problems are still going to exist. Armagh are in the lower bracket of ulster teams at the moment with potentially Antrim, Down and Fermanagh, so losing to one of these teams shouldn't come as a big shock anymore.
Majority of those Armagh people witnessed an era where they won 7 out of 10 Ulsters Championships so naturally there's a bit of expectancy in the County. I don't think anyone thinks they should be challenging for AI's but you'd think they'd have managed to win at least one game in the province in the last 4 years. Its not good enough for a manager in his 4th year.
Expectation can be out of sync. There is a bit of that in Armagh as there is everywhere else. But you can not get away from the fact that Armagh currently fall short of reasonable expectation. We don't have the players to win an AI semi final or an Ulster title. We are quite a bit short of those levels on player potential alone. We have been to 2 AI q/fs recently. Rode our luck getting there last year but got there all the same. We (when the playing talent produced by the county is available) have the players to get there again. Some years we will deliver on that and some years we won't. That's sport. That's life.
But current performance levels fall short of this by some considerable degree and those performances contained issues that can't be explained by a shrug of the shoulders and " shur we don't have the players". Look at our tactics time and time again. How can anybody argue that the team that takes the field are properly prepared (i.e. That what they are practicing in training is preparing them for what happens in games) or that our set up and methods makes our best players and especially forwards want to stick at it?
Yes they did win 7 out of 10 but the last time Armagh won Ulster title was ten years ago, a decade, more than enough time for the hype to subside and for realism to bed in. The days of Armagh having to compete with Tyrone only in Ulster matches are long over.
League football aside, Armagh are in the bottom tier of Ulster Knockout football, they have been for years.
Simple question, ask yourself what teams Armagh should be beating in Ulster? I can name 3 that I feel Armagh could beat at the moment, and 1 of them beat us yesterday.
Armagh can talk tactics, Jamie Clarke, Crossmaglen and this 'we don't have the players' all they like, but the fact remains that if you can't pass the ball to a teammate (a skill coached from at u10 level) then you're going to find Senior championship football very tricky. Time and again Armagh (and to a lesser extent Fermanagh) gave the ball away. Compare this with Monaghan & Tyrone. Both sides gave possession the respect it deserves and rarely (if at all) kicked the ball away. Each turnover was hard won.
Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.
Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.
[/quote]
I watched Monaghan give a master class in piercing a massed defence, for two years Armagh have been clearly aware of the tactics which the opposition would have going into the game but made no tactical variations to deal with this.
we can talk about basic skills etc but
we played two defenders and a mid fielder in the half forward line. we brought on two subs in the second half who have barely played 20 minutes county football in 2 years.
I am all for coaching basics but we are chopping and changing players every match.
out of last years panel,
Heffron, Morgan, Clarke, Campbell,ONeill,Hughes, McVerry off the top of my head
that's some turnover for whatever reason.
I watched Fermanagh and they have a consistency in players as do Monaghan as do Tyrone.
we don`t and until we do keep players on board we aren't going anywhere , players need to know their position and what their role is in the system.
for me the buck starts and end with the manager and we can`t say he has been dealt a horrendous hand given that in three years we played, Cavan, Down and Fermanagh losing all three handily enough.
Quote from: naka on May 21, 2018, 04:55:37 PM
Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.
I watched Monaghan give a master class in piercing a massed defence, for two years Armagh have been clearly aware of the tactics which the opposition would have going into the game but made no tactical variations to deal with this.
we can talk about basic skills etc but
we played two defenders and a mid fielder in the half forward line. we brought on two subs in the second half who have barely played 20 minutes county football in 2 years.
I am all for coaching basics but we are chopping and changing players every match.
out of last years panel,
Heffron, Morgan, Clarke, Campbell,ONeill,Hughes, McVerry off the top of my head
that's some turnover for whatever reason.
I watched Fermanagh and they have a consistency in players as do Monaghan as do Tyrone.
we don`t and until we do keep players on board we aren't going anywhere , players need to know their position and what their role is in the system.
for me the buck starts and end with the manager and we can`t say he has been dealt a horrendous hand given that in three years we played, Cavan, Down and Fermanagh losing all three handily enough.
[/quote]
That's a fair point and makes things difficult but they still need to be able to pass to one another.
Trailer, if guys are used to playing with each other in a clearly defined systempassing is easy, you know the runs, you can anticipate movement etc,when teams chop and change a player can look ponderous as he can't work out when the runner is making the dash, players aren't where they should be etc.
When Armagh were successful the team barely changed and the diagonal ball was the key before the defensive system got into place, it looked easy but it took years to perfect as the two Brian's started it in the late 90s.
Wonder how much it cost to take everyone away to a "training camp" in Portugal?
Money well spent? Or would that have been better spent on buying a rake of size 4 footballs for primary schools and clubs?
You gotta wonder just where the thought trains are taking people these days.
Its the same sh!te in at least 3 counties in Ulster at the moment; the worst 3 counties at that.
Overtrained and mentally drained. That is how I would summarise Armagh after Saturdays performance. Paralysis by analysis and players pre programmed to think too much about the match. McGeeney has to take responsibility as he picks and prepares the team. It was a huge let down and I think the players although a dedicated bunch are just not good enough at the minute. Depending on the draw they might win a game or two in the qualifiers but it iwill be only masking over the problems. The time is now right for change after 4 years and given the money that has been spent preparing this team.
Just got a chance to watch game......Armagh were extremely poor and whilst management have to accept the responsibility for the system they choose to play, I feel that when you are county standard you should be able to adapt to a changing game....Armagh clearly didn't. I think they over complicate things....football isn't rocket science....get the ball in to danger areas as quickly as possible. Armagh 5 points down with 5 mins left and they have two forwards in Fermanagh half....you have to ask why?
Well done Fermanagh......think they kept the game simple and deserved the win. If the shackles come off Armagh may do well in qualifiers.
Quote from: naka on May 21, 2018, 04:55:37 PM
Basic skill execution let Armagh down. Passing and shooting. Address this and they might put some sort of respectable look on their years championship run.
I watched Monaghan give a master class in piercing a massed defence, for two years Armagh have been clearly aware of the tactics which the opposition would have going into the game but made no tactical variations to deal with this.
we can talk about basic skills etc but
we played two defenders and a mid fielder in the half forward line. we brought on two subs in the second half who have barely played 20 minutes county football in 2 years.
I am all for coaching basics but we are chopping and changing players every match.
out of last years panel,
Heffron, Morgan, Clarke, Campbell,ONeill,Hughes, McVerry off the top of my head
that's some turnover for whatever reason.
I watched Fermanagh and they have a consistency in players as do Monaghan as do Tyrone.
we don`t and until we do keep players on board we aren't going anywhere , players need to know their position and what their role is in the system.
for me the buck starts and end with the manager and we can`t say he has been dealt a horrendous hand given that in three years we played, Cavan, Down and Fermanagh losing all three handily enough.
[/quote]
Would agree with this. For too many years now there's been no sense of a team being built. We should be seeing a nucleus of players, with a couple of new additions every year. This used to be the way. Players played in a settled position/role within the team year after year. How can there be consistency and improvement when there's a constant change in personnel and positions that players take up?
We're not blessed with quality forwards but that can't justify the lack of intensity, poor tackling, lack of indiscipline etc. Fundamentals that should be drilled into a team regardless of the personnel.
Unfortunately Kieran has had time and resources and it hasn't worked out. Regardless of what we may do in the qualifiers, the barometer is the Ulster championship and no wins in 4 years is a damning statistic and there can be no excuses. In my lifetime of following Armagh i can't think of a scenario where we didn't win a championship game for so long under the same manager. Kieran can't be blamed for all the ills of Armagh football - there are bigger issues around lack of success and player development at underage - but how can he get the players to buy into him any longer. It hasn't worked and the players will know that.
People are naming players that are missing off the panel from previous years and are just assuming that the players themselves have omitted themselves from the panel, things aren't always as they seem. KMcG needs to take a look at himself...
Quote from: illdecide on May 22, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
People are naming players that are missing off the panel from previous years and are just assuming that the players themselves have omitted themselves from the panel, things aren't always as they seem. KMcG needs to take a look at himself...
A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch. Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 22, 2018, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 22, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
People are naming players that are missing off the panel from previous years and are just assuming that the players themselves have omitted themselves from the panel, things aren't always as they seem. KMcG needs to take a look at himself...
A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch. Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
Whatever about an alternative 15 the following players would be on the team in my opinion. Some are out through injury and I'm not including Jamie. James Morgan, paul Hughes, Rian and Oisín O Neill, Decky McKenna, Mickey Murray Cullyhanna and Stefan Campbell. That's half a team and if those 7 were playing the team would be significantly better.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 22, 2018, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on May 22, 2018, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 22, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
People are naming players that are missing off the panel from previous years and are just assuming that the players themselves have omitted themselves from the panel, things aren't always as they seem. KMcG needs to take a look at himself...
A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch. Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
Whatever about an alternative 15 the following players would be on the team in my opinion. Some are out through injury and I'm not including Jamie. James Morgan, paul Hughes, Rian and Oisín O Neill, Decky McKenna, Mickey Murray Cullyhanna and Stefan Campbell. That's half a team and if those 7 were playing the team would be significantly better.
Very hard to disagree with this. You could add O'Hanlon in there too
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 22, 2018, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: Feckitt on May 22, 2018, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 22, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
People are naming players that are missing off the panel from previous years and are just assuming that the players themselves have omitted themselves from the panel, things aren't always as they seem. KMcG needs to take a look at himself...
A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch. Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
Whatever about an alternative 15 the following players would be on the team in my opinion. Some are out through injury and I’m not including Jamie. James Morgan, paul Hughes, Rian and Oisín O Neill, Decky McKenna, Mickey Murray Cullyhanna and Stefan Campbell. That’s half a team and if those 7 were playing the team would be significantly better.
Many of them expected to be back for the next game?
Quote from: Feckitt on May 22, 2018, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 22, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
People are naming players that are missing off the panel from previous years and are just assuming that the players themselves have omitted themselves from the panel, things aren't always as they seem. KMcG needs to take a look at himself...
A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch. Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
Just from players who have actually played senior inter county for Armagh
Morrison
Morgan Lappin Murray
Hughes McKenna Heffron
Oneill Lavery
O'Hanlon White Rafferty
Clarke Campbell Forker
That is only players I can remember of the top of my head. I would say only Lavery Caolan Rafferty Clarke and Stefan Forker are unlikely be asked / available next year.
Draw on Monday morning, TBH i hope we get Tyrone or Mayo. A big game that'll finish off the season or it'll kick them up the hole...I just don't want a couple of handy draws so as the fans think everything is not so bad after all.
I know as fans no-one is forced to go but when you're forking out a lot of your hard earned to watch the shite we witnessed last week and then the Co Board to skin you alive for more of your hard earned for the up keep of the Co team and the Athletic Grounds and then to rob you some more with the Club fee's...Fecking Co Board should be jailed FFS...lol
A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch. Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
[/quote]
Just from players who have actually played senior inter county for Armagh
Morrison
Morgan Lappin Murray
Hughes McKenna Heffron
Oneill Lavery
O'Hanlon White Rafferty
Clarke Campbell Forker
That is only players I can remember of the top of my head. I would say only Lavery Caolan Rafferty Clarke and Stefan Forker are unlikely be asked / available next year.
[/quote]
When you look at that list of players and add in long term injured players like Kevin Dyas and players not on the panel for whatever reason like Eugene McVerry and Stephen Harrold, there is a massive drop off in talent in many positions. Of that 15 named above I think you could easily pick eight of them that could have started in Sunday's game and made us better in theory. After last year's relatively successful Championship campaign, I think most of us were excited going into this season, but then we had a number of key players drop off the panel for whatever reason and all of a sudden we are looking at the same situation we've found ourselves in for the last few years. McGeeney has been trying to build a strong panel but it's nay on impossible to do when each year you get some players back and then lose other key ones. However, the players that played in the league did very well and we fans thought that the loses could be managed to some extent.
On Sunday I think we saw a mix of things that keep hurting us and over the last number of years. The drop off in players quality really hit us and it's only really in the Championship that you notice it compared to the League, where teams are trying things out and getting fit. We glided through the league and a number of players did very well, but were poor beyond belief on Sunday.
The team looked like they'd been over coached, with players playing out of position and things just being over complicated by McGeeney. The opposition had better tactics than we did and were able to follow their game plan. There have to be major question marks over him at this stage. The turnover in players doesn't help him, as I don't think that at any point he's had his best squad of players to chose from - but that can be said for a lot of counties so that can't be an excuse, especially against Fermanagh and their player resources. This is the fourth year in a row where we've been so bad in the opening round and lost, that it's difficult to make excuses for him anymore. I don't a lot of the players played anywhere near to their ability against Fermanagh and this is another theme that keeps popping up. The basics of the football are forgotten in big games in Ulster.
I do believe that some progress has been made and that some good players have been discovered that wouldn't have gotten near the team had everyone been fit and available. The qualifiers will be seriously tough and should we draw someone like Mayo or Tyrone our season could be over like that and I don't know where we go from there.