Will you vote for Fianna Fail?

[Maguire01]

I think we can safely say that a majority don't want their kids to be paying off the debts incurred by a neo-liberal elite. I think we can safely say that a majority don't feel they are responsible for housing and feeding thousands of people because of wars initiated by others.

Hmmm. You say on the other thread that SF has your vote... and they've been very vocal on accommodating refugees, looking for Ireland to take more:

Speaking today Mary Lou McDonald TD said,

"The images that we have seen over the past week resonate with the Irish people. We believed that the coffins ships had been relegated to the pages of our history books, yet we see them return on the nightly news.

"Government have been painfully slow to respond, and have failed to match the generosity of our people.

"I would call on people to support the vigils to tell the Governments that from Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal, refugees are welcome in Ireland."


So if that's really your position, you're clearly intending to vote for the wrong party.

[Kursk]

I think we can safely say that a majority don't want their kids to be paying off the debts incurred by a neo-liberal elite. I think we can safely say that a majority don't feel they are responsible for housing and feeding thousands of people because of wars initiated by others.

Hmmm. You say on the other thread that SF has your vote... and they've been very vocal on accommodating refugees, looking for Ireland to take more:

Speaking today Mary Lou McDonald TD said,

"The images that we have seen over the past week resonate with the Irish people. We believed that the coffins ships had been relegated to the pages of our history books, yet we see them return on the nightly news.

"Government have been painfully slow to respond, and have failed to match the generosity of our people.

"I would call on people to support the vigils to tell the Governments that from Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal, refugees are welcome in Ireland."


So if that's really your position, you're clearly intending to vote for the wrong party.

I'm a pragmatist. My ultimate aim is to get Ireland out of Europe. How do I accomplish this ? Its quite simple. Look for weakness and muddled thinking. Sinn Fein positions itself as euro sceptical whilst at the same time pandering to its left wing , liberal base by calling for Ireland to take more refugees.  They want to be all things to all men which is exactly the kind of thing that plays well in European "democracy" . This position is not sustainable. Something has to give.

In the short term , you have to admit they  are very clever. I doubt they will achieve power but they could create some very interesting dynamics in Irish politics. They will piss off the right wing with the refugees and at the same time appeal to them with the Euro scepticism. Meanwhile the left wing base will be kept happy with whatever emoting shite you feed them..for example emphasize their role in the yes campaign. Lots of panti-at-Dublin castle videos featuring Sinn Fein politicians .....that kind of shite.

I don't think they really want to leave Europe though, however they will not be able to control the Euro scepticism genie once it gets out of the bottle ..and that is what I, and others,  are banking on. 

[Rossfan]

What are we supposed to do if we leave "Europe"?
50,000 multi national jobs gone overnight as the Intel's, Googles etc etc move to a EU location, a new currency which will drop like a stone multiplying our State debts by 8 or 10, a market of 400,000,000 people becoming inaccessible to us.
But sure Sinn Pain have a cunning plan so we'll be grand.

[Kursk]

What are we supposed to do if we leave "Europe"?
50,000 multi national jobs gone overnight as the Intel's, Googles etc etc move to a EU location, a new currency which will drop like a stone multiplying our State debts by 8 or 10, a market of 400,000,000 people becoming inaccessible to us.
But sure Sinn Pain have a cunning plan so we'll be grand.

I think we have to make a choice. Are the 50,000 jobs worth the naked exploitation of Irelands "business friendly" tax policies ? How much good could we do for Irish people if we could reclaim the taxes these companies don't pay ?

There are, of course, more extreme approaches that can be taken.

lets take an example. We have about about 3000-4500 people in Leixlip that are expert in designing and producing world class processor chips. What would happen if we simply nationalized that plant ?

Now, I was deliberately vague on the exact number of employees at that plant. The truth is I don't know how many employees are indigenous. There are are probably a thousand (?) highly skilled foreign workers employed there. These people are basically a "globalized" workforce that can be moved around on a whim. This labour force is subsidised by the Irish government to keep the multinational in the country to keep the other 2000-3000 "natives" in lower scale employment. These elite employees are actually the ones that design/produce  the product and take these skills with them when the leave. meanwhile the natives are kept on lower wages and the illusion of a "knowledge" based economy is maintained.

I am not saying that dumping this model will be without pain. However, we need to have an honest discussion about what is good for the country. We should stop kow-towing to the corporations.

[LaurelEye]

Some mess in Longford last night when a female candidate with no track record in politics imposed. If they thought the Fianna Fáil vote in Longford collapsed in the last election,it will disappear now . The local independent will make hay with this .Bad enough that the Fine Gael candidate is known as Bonkers Bannon we now are expected to vote for a candidate that the local Fianna Fáil party don't want and most didn't know about till this morning. Equality my arse . The best person should always get selected irrespective of colour ,creed or sex with no pandering to gender quotas

Maybe someone without a "track record in politics" is exactly who we need??

Achieving better gender balance is a good idea but quotas is a fairly blunt way of doing it. Some effort should be made to increase the diversity of experience of those entering politics, something like 25% of TDs are or were teachers 

What you're getting in this instance is someone who has zero profile within the county but whom the sitting FF TD doesn't view as a threat to their seat. The other two prospective candidates might well have been able to take out Bonkers, but they could equally have taken out Troy (Donie Cassidy's gofer for many years).

Although, with FG probably not running a candidate in north Westmeath and Willie Penrose continuing to do a will-he-won't-he act on standing again, Troy probably has one of the two safest seats in the constituency. It's a prime example of quota-squatting.

[Kursk]

Some mess in Longford last night when a female candidate with no track record in politics imposed. If they thought the Fianna Fáil vote in Longford collapsed in the last election,it will disappear now . The local independent will make hay with this .Bad enough that the Fine Gael candidate is known as Bonkers Bannon we now are expected to vote for a candidate that the local Fianna Fáil party don't want and most didn't know about till this morning. Equality my arse . The best person should always get selected irrespective of colour ,creed or sex with no pandering to gender quotas

why the feck do you lads keep voting for the status quo so ? This political correctness has driven the country mad.

[Maguire01]

What are we supposed to do if we leave "Europe"?
50,000 multi national jobs gone overnight as the Intel's, Googles etc etc move to a EU location, a new currency which will drop like a stone multiplying our State debts by 8 or 10, a market of 400,000,000 people becoming inaccessible to us.
But sure Sinn Pain have a cunning plan so we'll be grand.

I think we have to make a choice. Are the 50,000 jobs worth the naked exploitation of Irelands "business friendly" tax policies ? How much good could we do for Irish people if we could reclaim the taxes these companies don't pay ?

If we don't have the jobs, we don't have ANY taxes. You can't lose the jobs and then try and reclaim taxes.

[Maguire01]

There are, of course, more extreme approaches that can be taken.

lets take an example. We have about about 3000-4500 people in Leixlip that are expert in designing and producing world class processor chips. What would happen if we simply nationalized that plant ?

This is some of the greatest nonsense posted on this board. And that's some feat.

How do we nationalise the plant? How exactly does that work? The government won't own any of the intellectual property. It's not a case of kick out the bosses and continue production. The private companies own the products. And then other companies see these attempts to "nationalise" and run a mile.

Now, I was deliberately vague on the exact number of employees at that plant. The truth is I don't know how many employees are indigenous. There are are probably a thousand (?) highly skilled foreign workers employed there. These people are basically a "globalized" workforce that can be moved around on a whim. This labour force is subsidised by the Irish government to keep the multinational in the country to keep the other 2000-3000 "natives" in lower scale employment. These elite employees are actually the ones that design/produce  the product and take these skills with them when the leave. meanwhile the natives are kept on lower wages and the illusion of a "knowledge" based economy is maintained.

I am not saying that dumping this model will be without pain. However, we need to have an honest discussion about what is good for the country. We should stop kow-towing to the corporations.

And now you're suggesting that the highly skilled workers are the foreign ones. In the totally unlikely scenario that the company was nationalised, this workforce would be "moved around on a whim". So now we have no one with the skills to make the product (even if we could).

Not only is this suggestion nonsense, it also manages to totally contradict itself in the space of a few sentences.

[Rossfan]

I think Kursk is a graduate of the Pol Pot school of economics.
Or maybe he's only a 12 or 13 year old.

[foxcommander]

I think Kursk is a graduate of the Pol Pot school of economics.
Or maybe he's only a 12 or 13 year old.

Still a lot more mature than you

You can only agree with everything your bigger friends say and pretend it's your own thoughts.

[Kursk]

There are, of course, more extreme approaches that can be taken.

lets take an example. We have about about 3000-4500 people in Leixlip that are expert in designing and producing world class processor chips. What would happen if we simply nationalized that plant ?

This is some of the greatest nonsense posted on this board. And that's some feat.

How do we nationalise the plant? How exactly does that work? The government won't own any of the intellectual property. It's not a case of kick out the bosses and continue production. The private companies own the products. And then other companies see these attempts to "nationalise" and run a mile.

Now, I was deliberately vague on the exact number of employees at that plant. The truth is I don't know how many employees are indigenous. There are are probably a thousand (?) highly skilled foreign workers employed there. These people are basically a "globalized" workforce that can be moved around on a whim. This labour force is subsidised by the Irish government to keep the multinational in the country to keep the other 2000-3000 "natives" in lower scale employment. These elite employees are actually the ones that design/produce  the product and take these skills with them when the leave. meanwhile the natives are kept on lower wages and the illusion of a "knowledge" based economy is maintained.

I am not saying that dumping this model will be without pain. However, we need to have an honest discussion about what is good for the country. We should stop kow-towing to the corporations.

And now you're suggesting that the highly skilled workers are the foreign ones. In the totally unlikely scenario that the company was nationalised, this workforce would be "moved around on a whim". So now we have no one with the skills to make the product (even if we could).

Not only is this suggestion nonsense, it also manages to totally contradict itself in the space of a few sentences.

Renationalization would not be without its problems , for sure, and it is much easier to do with things like raliways (e.g. corbyns ideas) and oil (see Venezuela and Iran). I picked the lexlip plant because we don't have an oil industry to speak of and people know about the lexlip plant. It's not the best example but maybe that's why it is interesting to consider it.

As for the workforce. I believe that there has been enough expertise built up over the years to sustain production. It would mean lads would have to step up of course but you have to back your own people eventually right ?

as for intellectual property .. China has risen stealing circuit designs and fabrication processes for years  and now account for 20% of of worldwide fabless IC industry. Anything is possible if you just stop playing by US hegemonic rules. There is a vicious cycle whereby all the best talent in the world ends up working for US companies who then reap all the ideas of the best minds of India, asia, Europe etc. It is intellectual inequality writ large.

and can we stop the childish insults and confrontational reaction. Is it really such a controversial thing to imagine a future without US domination ? 

[From the Bunker]

Micheál Martin gave his leaders speech at the Ard Fheis. I must say I found it entertaining. In fairness to the man, he is doing a brilliant job at standing to the side and making it look like FF had little or nothing to do with our present troubles. There is no doubt that FF will gain seats in the next election. There are just to many people/families with ties to the party for it not to. And with a few new faces running without baggage they will be easier to vote for.

[Canalman]

Think the fact that FF were not the sole reason for the economy collapse is slowly dawning.  Alot of the FF support will drift back imo and they should get a TD elected in every constituency by and large.

This is never an election they were going to win but keep an eye out for them in the future.

GE results all depend on how much seats Labour win.

All looking towards another GE in October.

[From the Bunker]

Think the fact that FF were not the sole reason for the economy collapse is slowly dawning.  Alot of the FF support will drift back imo and they should get a TD elected in every constituency by and large.

This is never an election they were going to win but keep an eye out for them in the future.

GE results all depend on how much seats Labour win.

All looking towards another GE in October.

Ah, they are all the same, bar one or two! It's great for FF that in nearly 5 years all is forgotten. The culture they embraced from the times of Charlie right up to the end of the Tiger all forgotten. They were always the Major party so they were always going to walk with a bit of a swagger. I hope we are left with no other option other than a FG/FF coalition for the next Dail. 

[Maguire01]

All looking towards another GE in October.

I recall several predictions, many on here, that the current government wouldn't last a year. Not necessarily saying it will be the same next time.