Paddy Jackson apology

[seafoid]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

[magpie seanie]

Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you're likely to find. It's telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.

likely rapist?

Remember, she did accuse him of rape first, before changing her story.

Stop showing yourself up Hound.

How can you have not the good sense to see your own pattern of victim blaming in this thread?

Do you disagree with the fact she accused Olding of vaginal rape and then changed her story?

I would be happy to be corrected if I said something false or mistaken. But I made an accurate statement and didn't blame anyone.  If you want to correct something I said, please do. I you want to make personal statements about me, please refrain. I'm not interested, and neither is anybody else.

Yaaaaaa. Blame the girl. It's all her fault. 

[haranguerer]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

She'll get castigated for it, but she is along the right lines.

The lack of a distinction between different types of rape causes massive issues, and is the key reason why there is such a low conviction rate. The image of rape and rapists are knives and dark alleyways, and the promotion of the clear untruth that all rapes are the same, means juries are unwilling to convict someone when it doesn't fit the most extreme bill. There should be a complete rethink of the rape laws to categorise, as they aren't fit for purpose currently, as evidenced regularly in our courts.

[brokencrossbar1]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

She'll get castigated for it, but she is along the right lines.

The lack of a distinction between different types of rape causes massive issues, and is the key reason why there is such a low conviction rate. The image of rape and rapists are knives and dark alleyways, and the promotion of the clear untruth that all rapes are the same, means juries are unwilling to convict someone when it doesn't fit the most extreme bill. There should be a complete rethink of the rape laws to categorise, as they aren't fit for purpose currently, as evidenced regularly in our courts.

Or the alternative is to charge with sexual assault or aggravated sexual assault which doesn't have as high a tariff in punishement but should be easier to prove. The problem with rape is that it's all duck or no dinner.

[Hound]

Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you're likely to find. It's telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.

likely rapist?

Remember, she did accuse him of rape first, before changing her story.

Stop showing yourself up Hound.

How can you have not the good sense to see your own pattern of victim blaming in this thread?

Do you disagree with the fact she accused Olding of vaginal rape and then changed her story?

I would be happy to be corrected if I said something false or mistaken. But I made an accurate statement and didn't blame anyone.  If you want to correct something I said, please do. I you want to make personal statements about me, please refrain. I'm not interested, and neither is anybody else.

Yaaaaaa. Blame the girl. It's all her fault. 

That's a pretty childish response Seanie!
If someone has an alternative viewpoint, start saying "blame the victim".

You probably won't answer this, but here's a question for you:

Is it ok for people on this board to call someone a "likely rapist" on the basis that a woman accused a man of rape, but then changed their mind and then accused them of a lesser offence? And bearing in mind the man was acquitted of the lesser charge by every single juror who has sat through the whole case.

[magpie seanie]

Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you're likely to find. It's telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.

likely rapist?

Remember, she did accuse him of rape first, before changing her story.

Stop showing yourself up Hound.

How can you have not the good sense to see your own pattern of victim blaming in this thread?

Do you disagree with the fact she accused Olding of vaginal rape and then changed her story?

I would be happy to be corrected if I said something false or mistaken. But I made an accurate statement and didn't blame anyone.  If you want to correct something I said, please do. I you want to make personal statements about me, please refrain. I'm not interested, and neither is anybody else.

Yaaaaaa. Blame the girl. It's all her fault. 

That's a pretty childish response Seanie!
If someone has an alternative viewpoint, start saying "blame the victim".

You probably won't answer this, but here's a question for you:

Is it ok for people on this board to call someone a "likely rapist" on the basis that a woman accused a man of rape, but then changed their mind and then accused them of a lesser offence? And bearing in mind the man was acquitted of the lesser charge by every single juror who has sat through the whole case.

Firstly - the way you have presented your argument is skewed greatly against the alleged victim. She didn't "change her mind". She corrected the detail of her version of events when giving her police statement. Loads of evidence out there and possibly even given in court to explain why people who have undergone traumatic events (clearly she was traumatised per independent evidence) can make errors like this (and remember it was a conversation with a doctor......not a statement). To suggest she "changed her mind" is implying she made the story up. So it's "victim blaming in my book and I'd say that's an interpretation a lot of people would make. I wouldn't have expected it from you to be fair.

Secondly - from reading your posts I do not think you are factually correct and/or do not understand exactly what rape means. Olding was charged with rape. I do not think he was charged with a lesser charge as you allege. Her version of events was that he raped her.

Finally - I wouldn't personally use the term "likely rapist" and wouldn't have seen it only for people quoting the person who wrote it. Even though I personally suspect on the balance of probabilities this was a rape I accept there wasn't enough evidence to convict and accept the accused in this case were found not guilty. But that's merely an opinion which counts for little.

[AZOffaly]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

She's a feminist saying that? I know she's "controversial" but what is she thinking?

[Milltown Row2]

Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you're likely to find. It's telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.

likely rapist?

Remember, she did accuse him of rape first, before changing her story.

Stop showing yourself up Hound.

How can you have not the good sense to see your own pattern of victim blaming in this thread?

Do you disagree with the fact she accused Olding of vaginal rape and then changed her story?

I would be happy to be corrected if I said something false or mistaken. But I made an accurate statement and didn't blame anyone.  If you want to correct something I said, please do. I you want to make personal statements about me, please refrain. I'm not interested, and neither is anybody else.

Yaaaaaa. Blame the girl. It's all her fault. 

That's a pretty childish response Seanie!
If someone has an alternative viewpoint, start saying "blame the victim".

You probably won't answer this, but here's a question for you:

Is it ok for people on this board to call someone a "likely rapist" on the basis that a woman accused a man of rape, but then changed their mind and then accused them of a lesser offence? And bearing in mind the man was acquitted of the lesser charge by every single juror who has sat through the whole case.

Firstly - the way you have presented your argument is skewed greatly against the alleged victim. She didn't "change her mind". She corrected the detail of her version of events when giving her police statement. Loads of evidence out there and possibly even given in court to explain why people who have undergone traumatic events (clearly she was traumatised per independent evidence) can make errors like this (and remember it was a conversation with a doctor......not a statement). To suggest she "changed her mind" is implying she made the story up. So it's "victim blaming in my book and I'd say that's an interpretation a lot of people would make. I wouldn't have expected it from you to be fair.

Secondly - from reading your posts I do not think you are factually correct and/or do not understand exactly what rape means. Olding was charged with rape. I do not think he was charged with a lesser charge as you allege. Her version of events was that he raped her.

Finally - I wouldn't personally use the term "likely rapist" and wouldn't have seen it only for people quoting the person who wrote it. Even though I personally suspect on the balance of probabilities this was a rape I accept there wasn't enough evidence to convict and accept the accused in this case were found not guilty. But that's merely an opinion which counts for little.

But you accept the courts/jury's decision that in all likelyhood, based on all the evidence heard in court, it is more than likely he didnt rape her, and moved on?

[seafoid]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

She's a feminist saying that? I know she's "controversial" but what is she thinking?

She is a feminist. Her angle is that the system doesn't work. After the PJ case I would agree. If the sanction was lower a lot of mess could have been avoided. How do you prove consent? And look what the lads lost.

[magpie seanie]

Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you're likely to find. It's telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.

likely rapist?

Remember, she did accuse him of rape first, before changing her story.

Stop showing yourself up Hound.

How can you have not the good sense to see your own pattern of victim blaming in this thread?

Do you disagree with the fact she accused Olding of vaginal rape and then changed her story?

I would be happy to be corrected if I said something false or mistaken. But I made an accurate statement and didn't blame anyone.  If you want to correct something I said, please do. I you want to make personal statements about me, please refrain. I'm not interested, and neither is anybody else.

Yaaaaaa. Blame the girl. It's all her fault. 

That's a pretty childish response Seanie!
If someone has an alternative viewpoint, start saying "blame the victim".

You probably won't answer this, but here's a question for you:

Is it ok for people on this board to call someone a "likely rapist" on the basis that a woman accused a man of rape, but then changed their mind and then accused them of a lesser offence? And bearing in mind the man was acquitted of the lesser charge by every single juror who has sat through the whole case.

Firstly - the way you have presented your argument is skewed greatly against the alleged victim. She didn't "change her mind". She corrected the detail of her version of events when giving her police statement. Loads of evidence out there and possibly even given in court to explain why people who have undergone traumatic events (clearly she was traumatised per independent evidence) can make errors like this (and remember it was a conversation with a doctor......not a statement). To suggest she "changed her mind" is implying she made the story up. So it's "victim blaming in my book and I'd say that's an interpretation a lot of people would make. I wouldn't have expected it from you to be fair.

Secondly - from reading your posts I do not think you are factually correct and/or do not understand exactly what rape means. Olding was charged with rape. I do not think he was charged with a lesser charge as you allege. Her version of events was that he raped her.

Finally - I wouldn't personally use the term "likely rapist" and wouldn't have seen it only for people quoting the person who wrote it. Even though I personally suspect on the balance of probabilities this was a rape I accept there wasn't enough evidence to convict and accept the accused in this case were found not guilty. But that's merely an opinion which counts for little.

But you accept the courts/jury's decision that in all likelyhood, based on all the evidence heard in court, it is more than likely he didnt rape her, and moved on?

Seriously? Have you any comprehension of what actually happened in that court case, or any criminal case for that matter?

[AZOffaly]

I know that seafoid. Rape, barring obvious physical evidence of a struggle, or witnesses, is largely one person's word versus another. But surely the threat of the court case and punishment are some sort of deterrent? I can't see who lowering the punishment for it would help in any way. Rape is one of the most traumatic crimes a woman can endure, and is about the power and domination over that woman. To not view it as "spectacularly violent crime" is abhorrent to me.

[magpie seanie]

I know that seafoid. Rape, barring obvious physical evidence of a struggle, or witnesses, is largely one person's word versus another. But surely the threat of the court case and punishment are some sort of deterrent? I can't see who lowering the punishment for it would help in any way. Rape is one of the most traumatic crimes a woman can endure, and is about the power and domination over that woman. To not view it as "spectacularly violent crime" is abhorrent to me.

Ya, agree entirely. Her comments make no sense but that's not unusual. She can be a bit extreme at times which does her cause no favours as we see time and time again on this board on different issues (with the same posters).

[brokencrossbar1]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

She's a feminist saying that? I know she's "controversial" but what is she thinking?

She is a feminist. Her angle is that the system doesn't work. After the PJ case I would agree. If the sanction was lower a lot of mess could have been avoided. How do you prove consent? And look what the lads lost.

The thing is that Jackson was charged with a lesser offence with a lesser sanction and was found not guilty. This is something that has been completely ignored by the people with their agendas. Jackson was acquitted unanimously of sexual assault. The mechanics of the 'sexual assault' were not disputed. The area of consent was and the jury found in favour of Jackson as they believed that she consented to the interaction. Germaine Greer's point is lost in the fact that it is not the level
Of the severity of the crime or punishment that is wrong here but in my opinion the fault lies absolutely with inadequate police investigation and an open system of trial whereby victim and accused can be named legally and outside of the law by other means. Anonymity till conviction is not ideal but may be the best solution of a bad set of options. 

[Milltown Row2]

Good to see Olding get a club, talented player.  Wonder who Jackson will sign for?

Might be the first time Olding has been called talented. As bang average a club player as you're likely to find. It's telling he only got a job in the French second tier and that was because his Ulster buddy was taking over the club and was ok with brushing his actions off the field under the carpet.

A versatile back, who played at out-half, centre, and full-back, Stuart Olding represented Ireland at both Under 18 and Under 20 level

He made his debut for Ulster as a substitute against Leinster in December 2011, but just over a year later he established himself as a member of the senior squad. He scored his first try for Ulster, against Glasgow, in February 2013 and Olding scored four further tries in quick succession.

Man-of-the-match awards against the Dragons and Connacht soon followed and Olding was regarded as one of the most exciting young players in Irish Rugby

Average? #Syferusknowsfuckall

You did a good job of showing your incredible level of fanboyism for a likely rapist and at best a very lucky and scummy individual.

He still is an absolutely average and replaceable club level player. The big clubs had no interest in his supposedly predigious talents for some odd reason. Jackson is a limited player too but at least he was at a more valuable position.

likely rapist?

Remember, she did accuse him of rape first, before changing her story.

Stop showing yourself up Hound.

How can you have not the good sense to see your own pattern of victim blaming in this thread?

Do you disagree with the fact she accused Olding of vaginal rape and then changed her story?

I would be happy to be corrected if I said something false or mistaken. But I made an accurate statement and didn't blame anyone.  If you want to correct something I said, please do. I you want to make personal statements about me, please refrain. I'm not interested, and neither is anybody else.

Yaaaaaa. Blame the girl. It's all her fault. 

That's a pretty childish response Seanie!
If someone has an alternative viewpoint, start saying "blame the victim".

You probably won't answer this, but here's a question for you:

Is it ok for people on this board to call someone a "likely rapist" on the basis that a woman accused a man of rape, but then changed their mind and then accused them of a lesser offence? And bearing in mind the man was acquitted of the lesser charge by every single juror who has sat through the whole case.

Firstly - the way you have presented your argument is skewed greatly against the alleged victim. She didn't "change her mind". She corrected the detail of her version of events when giving her police statement. Loads of evidence out there and possibly even given in court to explain why people who have undergone traumatic events (clearly she was traumatised per independent evidence) can make errors like this (and remember it was a conversation with a doctor......not a statement). To suggest she "changed her mind" is implying she made the story up. So it's "victim blaming in my book and I'd say that's an interpretation a lot of people would make. I wouldn't have expected it from you to be fair.

Secondly - from reading your posts I do not think you are factually correct and/or do not understand exactly what rape means. Olding was charged with rape. I do not think he was charged with a lesser charge as you allege. Her version of events was that he raped her.

Finally - I wouldn't personally use the term "likely rapist" and wouldn't have seen it only for people quoting the person who wrote it. Even though I personally suspect on the balance of probabilities this was a rape I accept there wasn't enough evidence to convict and accept the accused in this case were found not guilty. But that's merely an opinion which counts for little.

But you accept the courts/jury's decision that in all likelyhood, based on all the evidence heard in court, it is more than likely he didnt rape her, and moved on?

Seriously? Have you any comprehension of what actually happened in that court case, or any criminal case for that matter?

Do you? were you sitting in on the case daily? Did you hear all the evidence or just what was reported? In a criminal case the defense and prosecution present their evidence and the jury go with the evidence presented and decide, I'd assume.. unless that has changed and trial by media decides the outcome..

You or I dont know what happened that night, nor would I jump to conclusions either, the jury are best placed to decide on this and with the direction of the judge came to a verdict, it never claimed they were innocent it just that there wasnt enough evidence to suggest they did, in fact rape her, more so she was a willing partner.

That won't stop people thinking they did or didn't and thats fine, mud sticks and all that.. but let it go

[haranguerer]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

Germaine Greer has called for the lowering of punishment for rape and said society should not see it as a "spectacularly violent crime" but instead view it more as "lazy, careless and insensitive".

She suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence might be 200 hours' community service and perhaps an "r" tattoo on the rapist's hand, arm or cheek.

Speaking at the Hay literary festival, the feminist academic argued that rape is rampant in society and the legal system cannot cope with it because it always comes down to the issue of consent, with the victims becoming little more than "bits of evidence".

She's a feminist saying that? I know she's "controversial" but what is she thinking?

Whats your definition of a feminist?