Gaelic Football RIP

Started by High Fielder, July 21, 2018, 06:37:09 PM

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APM

Quote from: Stall the Bailer on August 15, 2018, 10:32:58 AM
There is no doubt there is a feel good factor within a county when the their county team is going well (Monaghan would be a good example currently). Especially during the early years of the success (I'm guessing there is not same buzz in Dublin as a few years ago) The same is true when your local club is going well. I'd say it would have even a larger impact locally at inspiring our youth.
There is a lot of people who just like to complain, I have met a few Tyrone supporters locally who's first reaction to the last two games was to give out, instead of enjoying our victories and being in the final. Saying Gaelic football is dead, makes little sense to me. It still a great game to play and watch.

Quote from: Stall the Bailer on August 15, 2018, 09:11:10 AM
I know the title of the thread is Gaelic Football RIP and a lot of posters are commenting about losing their love of the game.
Reading through a lot of the posts it is all about the inter county game and it is all from the spectators viewpoint.

There is no doubt attendances are dropping at inter county level due to many reasons. I know for me it is the cost of attending games, along with other commitments is the reason that I can't attend as many games as I would like.
I don't see less attending club games. Is everyone talking about county level, because if you are the thread title is misleading and confusing the issue.


Ticket prices are an issue, but they have been high before - never before have they offered such poor value for money. 

You're a Tyrone man - your team is in the final - You are going to have a different perspective.  Try to look at it from the perspective of a neutral. Look at it from the perspective of how much you enjoy Tyrone matches now, compared to 10 years ago when football was less cautious. 

Jinxy

In addition to the 45m kick-out rule, everyone except the 4 'midfielders' (a midfielder can be anyone) must be inside the 45m lines.
So, the goalkeeper + 6 forwards + 6 backs all have to stay goal-side of the 45m line UNTIL the ball is kicked.
Easy to implement, easy to enforce.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

APM

Quote from: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:02:45 AM
In addition to the 45m kick-out rule, everyone except the 4 'midfielders' (a midfielder can be anyone) must be inside the 45m lines.
So, the goalkeeper + 6 forwards + 6 backs all have to stay goal-side of the 45m line UNTIL the ball is kicked.
Easy to implement, easy to enforce.

I think that would work. Any downsides? If not Jinxy, get it written up and submitted to congress before Mickey Harte gets his hands on it,

Rossfan

Quote from: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 10:48:46 AM
Inter County football as a concept is flawed. People won't commit to a race they can't win. The All Ireland Championship is great for those who take turns to win it, but for everyone else it has lost its appeal. Larger counties have far too many advantages and it takes a golden crop every 20 or 30 years for anyone else to get a sniff. In some cases that never happens at all. If it's not competitive, there's a reason for that, but the GAA don't want to own what is blatantly obvious. It's far better to sit idly by and pray the first few months of the Championship fade to memory so we can get to the proper stuff, the Super 8's.
36 years since a small County won or reached an AI Final.
That was the remarkable County of Offaly who in a 26 year period won 3 football and 4 Hurling AIs .
6 football Counties have never reached an AI Final.
Of the small Counties who did reach Finals it's 38 years for Ros, 66 for Cavan, 82 I think for Laois and was it 88 Monaghan.

So what do we do if we accept the County model is flawed?
And it obviously is due to population differences which are going to be exacerbated in the next 20 years.
You'll have 1.5m in Dublin while Kildare,  Meath, Wicklow at least 800k.
Meanwhile 11 small BMW Counties  will have about 650k.
Will anyone want to move away from the County model as it's fairly ingrained at this stage?
However shorter term we need to fix our "product" to at least make the game attractive to neutrals again.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Jinxy

#289
Quote from: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:11:43 AM
I really don't see why midfield needs to be so important. Why so much emphasis on channeling the game towards them?
What if we've a shite midfield but the best half forward line in the country? Tough?
I can't see how it makes the game any better as a spectacle either.
Let teams play to their own strengths instead of dictating what they must do.

How's that working out for us?
Anyway, it's not so much about prioritising midfield as it is about reintroducing the concept of people having to fight for the ball.
If you like seeing the ball kicked to the corner back for him to jog up to the HB line and give a short handpass to a wing back to jog up to the etc. etc., I think you'd be in the minority.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

trailer

The time it would take to reset into 6-2-6 for every kickout would waste a lot of time. You're a point down heading into injury time. The opposition has the kickout, the half forward who tracked his man back now takes an age to walk up to his position. This is another idea that will not work.

westbound

Quote from: APM on August 15, 2018, 11:08:57 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:02:45 AM
In addition to the 45m kick-out rule, everyone except the 4 'midfielders' (a midfielder can be anyone) must be inside the 45m lines.
So, the goalkeeper + 6 forwards + 6 backs all have to stay goal-side of the 45m line UNTIL the ball is kicked.
Easy to implement, easy to enforce.

I think that would work. Any downsides? If not Jinxy, get it written up and submitted to congress before Mickey Harte gets his hands on it,

What happens if the goalkeeper wants to take a quick kick out and all his team are correctly lined up but the opposition are not (either deliberately or accidentally).

Jinxy

God forbid we would lose the quick kick-out.
The clock wouldn't restart until the ball was kicked, so you wouldn't lose any time.
Look, all I want is to see people having to WIN the ball from a kick-out.
That requires skill & effort.
Compare this with a keeper dinking the ball to his corner-back.
Give people something to cheer ffs.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Rossfan

Abolish hand throwing,  solo running?. Allow the man to be tackled?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Jinxy

Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Jinxy

Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2018, 11:19:07 AM
The time it would take to reset into 6-2-6 for every kickout would waste a lot of time. You're a point down heading into injury time. The opposition has the kickout, the half forward who tracked his man back now takes an age to walk up to his position. This is another idea that will not work.

His wing-back can drop in for him.
People would get the gist of it pretty quickly, it's not rocket science.
You have 6 people standing on the 20m line, i.e. FB & FF line and you have 6 people standing on the 45m line, i.e. HB & HF line.
Once the ball is kicked they are all free to charge into the midfield area if they want.
You can still go wherever you like on the field for the restart as long as the numbers add up.
So if you had a Donaghy figure playing FF, you can put him midfield for the kick-outs and move a midfielder somewhere else.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

High Fielder

Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: High Fielder on August 15, 2018, 10:48:46 AM
Inter County football as a concept is flawed. People won't commit to a race they can't win. The All Ireland Championship is great for those who take turns to win it, but for everyone else it has lost its appeal. Larger counties have far too many advantages and it takes a golden crop every 20 or 30 years for anyone else to get a sniff. In some cases that never happens at all. If it's not competitive, there's a reason for that, but the GAA don't want to own what is blatantly obvious. It's far better to sit idly by and pray the first few months of the Championship fade to memory so we can get to the proper stuff, the Super 8's.
36 years since a small County won or reached an AI Final.
That was the remarkable County of Offaly who in a 26 year period won 3 football and 4 Hurling AIs .
6 football Counties have never reached an AI Final.
Of the small Counties who did reach Finals it's 38 years for Ros, 66 for Cavan, 82 I think for Laois and was it 88 Monaghan.

So what do we do if we accept the County model is flawed?
And it obviously is due to population differences which are going to be exacerbated in the next 20 years.
You'll have 1.5m in Dublin while Kildare,  Meath, Wicklow at least 800k.
Meanwhile 11 small BMW Counties  will have about 650k.
Will anyone want to move away from the County model as it's fairly ingrained at this stage?
However shorter term we need to fix our "product" to at least make the game attractive to neutrals again.

For the reasons you outlined, and many more, most notably semi professionalism, it is easy to see why competitiveness is suffering. I am of the opinion that some matches have no business being played, such is the chasm between the teams. They are not even of novelty value. Bookmakers give more of a chance to a League 2 side beating Manchester City than Carlow/Offaly/Laois/Longofrd/Wicklow etc beating Dublin. A pointless exercise slavishly following county boundaries which probably only have land mass in common. It won't change because it can't, not unless there is a professional intervention and some other model is adopted. Let's be honest here, Dublin are a professional outfit in all but name. And good luck to them. They are taking the opportunity to make themselves better in a time and place that lends itself to that. They are giving themselves every opportunity to be competitive year after year without having to wait for a golden crop. Success by numbers. How do small counties even begin to compete with that?

Jinxy

Quote from: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:31:09 AM
Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
The mark is enough emphasis on that one skill thanks.
Teams should be allowed to try something different if they are getting cleaned out.
Ridiculous that they should be made to play to the other team's strengths.

Who are 'the other' team in this scenario.
If this rule was brought in for next season, what teams would dominate and what teams would suffer as a result?
All I see nowadays is a load of 6'1" and 6'2" lads playing midfield.
There are very few giants anymore.
Again, this isn't just about fielding, it's about making gameplay more dynamic and entertaining.
The concept of fairness to one team or another based on their lack of fielding ability is a bit of a first world problem.
People don't want to watch the games anymore.
That's the primary issue we're trying to address here.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:43:07 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 15, 2018, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 15, 2018, 11:31:09 AM
Nope.
Remember, once the ball is kicked all bets are off.
So unless you have an utterly dominant fielder, the breaking ball is up for grabs.
Anyway, what's wrong with trying to emphasise a skill that gets people up out of their seats in appreciation?
Why was the mark introduced?
The mark is enough emphasis on that one skill thanks.
Teams should be allowed to try something different if they are getting cleaned out.
Ridiculous that they should be made to play to the other team's strengths.

Who are 'the other' team in this scenario.
If this rule was brought in for next season, what teams would dominate and what teams would suffer as a result?
All I see nowadays is a load of 6'1" and 6'2" lads playing midfield.
There are very few giants anymore.
Again, this isn't just about fielding, it's about making gameplay more dynamic and entertaining.
The concept of fairness to one team or another based on their lack of fielding ability is a bit of a first world problem.
People don't want to watch the games anymore.
That's the primary issue we're trying to address here.
I think the game is slowly evolving away from the ultra short kickout to the corner back now anyway.
I dont think we need a rule change to sort that out.
Alot more kickouts are being ping out to half backs or midfielders on the run, or as we are now starting to see, kicked over the press altogether to the half forward line.
In the Tyrone v Monaghan game there we had maybe 4/5 examples of really good clean fielding from kickouts, did we ever really have many more than that anyway?
In the past [people used to lament that when the ball was kicked out and fielded , the player that caught it was swamped as soon as he hit the ground alot of the time.
That is no longer the case due to kickouts usually being hit into space and the mark.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

APM

This is just putting a rule in place to bring us back to slower restarts and kickouts to midfield. 

Refereeing it should be doable. The lines men and referee could ensure between them that the kickout isn't taken until just 4 players were between the 45, but tbf, the half backs and half forwards would be bursting to come into the midfield area before the kickout is taken. So the officials need to watch for players breaking the line with some sort of penalty for doing so.  That's probably the difficult part.

The half forwards and half backs would be pushed up tight on the 45, so you would still have them coming into compete for breaking ball.
Restarts would be more like a 50-50, so you would have no incentive to flood your own defence as you may find that you win possession without support up front.  For teams with a weaker midfield, kicking off the tee presents the option of kicking long into the space on the wings for a wing back or wing forward to run on to.  In fairness, Beggan has been dropping kickouts inside the oppositions 45. Both of these factors would encourage more man to man marking.