Hopefully the two weeks off will suit the Mayo team and there will be a backlash. Should win this game seeing as Cavan will be playing their 3rd game in 3 weeks.
Win the game guarantee safety and run the panel in the last two league games safe in the knowledge of no repercussions, really see who is up to it and who isn't. It could be an excellent opportunity to do something we haven't been able to do for a number of years.
Cavan only scoring on average 10 points a game Mayo should win this game comfortably. A NFL final is still up for grabs I would expect Rochford and his players to aim for that.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2017, 06:21:14 PM
Cavan only scoring on average 10 points a game Mayo should win this game comfortably. A NFL final is still up for grabs I would expect Rochford and his players to aim for that.
We'd need to win our last 3 games by 10/12+ points wouldn't we to get to the final?
Whatever about finals,2 points with a substantial improvement in performance fro the Dublin game has to be the very least we need to get out of Sunday. Cavan may be regarded in some quarters as a certain 2 points but I can see them causing us problems given how we tend to struggle against massed defences. The worry is that other than Clarke's shot stopping, defence, midfield or attack have not really clicked over the full 70 at all this year.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2017, 06:21:14 PM
Cavan only scoring on average 10 points a game Mayo should win this game comfortably. A NFL final is still up for grabs I would expect Rochford and his players to aim for that.
You would?
I would expect them to have a go at beating Cavan. If we do that, I'd expect us to be worried about nothing else but putting in good performances against Donegal and Tyrone. The distraction of a League final (that I could never see us winning) is the last thing we need. Anyway we have spent enough money going to Croke Park already this year.
Tyrone and Monaghan have played Dublin in a recent league final and semi final and got within one point of them. The more Croke park games the better for any team IMO and one trimming shouldn't frighten you away from that venue.
At the moment Tyrone are favorites to play Dublin in the NFL final however they have a tougher run in than Mayo with Donegal in Ballybofey who are hard to beat there and Kerry away who could be close to full strength by round 7.
Cavan on the way to division 2 and Donegal in transition are two games Mayo should be winning in MacHale park. The decider for a place in the final could well be the Tyrone v Mayo game in Omagh and I don't see Rochford throwing in a pile of inexperienced or untested players into that game.
Cavan will win this handy enough and launch a glorious escape from relegation. It will be like 48 all over again.
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2017, 07:48:47 PM
Cavan will win this handy enough and launch a glorious escape from relegation. It will be like 48 all over again.
Entirely possible if we play like we did against Dublin.
Any team with ambitions of winning either national competition besides Dublin are only fooling themselves and wasting their members' hard earned cash chasing shadows.
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2017, 07:48:47 PM
Cavan will win this handy enough and launch a glorious escape from relegation. It will be like 48 all over again.
The
short final! Cavan led by 3-02 to 0-00 at half time!
Quote from: Syferus on March 13, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
Any team with ambitions of winning either national competition besides Dublin are only fooling themselves and wasting their members' hard earned cash chasing shadows.
So 31 Counties should just stop fielding teams at all??
Quote from: Rossfan on March 13, 2017, 11:44:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on March 13, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
Any team with ambitions of winning either national competition besides Dublin are only fooling themselves and wasting their members' hard earned cash chasing shadows.
So 31 Counties should just stop fielding teams at all??
The ones in three of the provinces can at least aim for the most pertigious titles actually up for grabs. Rest of Leinster is lost territory, sadly.
The sad reality is this year (and next, and next..) Carlow have nearly as much chance of winning Sam as supposed pure bloods like Kerry. Maybe Cork and Meath are ahead of everyone in losing interest in this sport.
Quote from: bucko on March 13, 2017, 06:49:45 PM
Whatever about finals,2 points with a substantial improvement in performance fro the Dublin game has to be the very least we need to get out of Sunday. Cavan may be regarded in some quarters as a certain 2 points but I can see them causing us problems given how we tend to struggle against massed defences. The worry is that other than Clarke's shot stopping, defence, midfield or attack have not really clicked over the full 70 at all this year.
The massed defence thing because Joe Brolly said it five years ago. We've no defensive plan and a blunt attack so Mayo should win pulling up.
Quote from: Syferus on March 14, 2017, 01:36:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 13, 2017, 11:44:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on March 13, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
Any team with ambitions of winning either national competition besides Dublin are only fooling themselves and wasting their members' hard earned cash chasing shadows.
So 31 Counties should just stop fielding teams at all??
The ones in three of the provinces can at least aim for the most pertigious titles actually up for grabs. Rest of Leinster is lost territory, sadly.
The sad reality is this year (and next, and next..) Carlow have nearly as much chance of winning Sam as supposed pure bloods like Kerry. Maybe Cork and Meath are ahead of everyone in losing interest in this sport.
Will someone just bar this g&*#!@$e
Mayo Really need to win this to wash the Dublin game out of the system.
A loss here would leave them with serious doubts about their abilities.
I see the O Sés are still out it would be nice to have a pretty full panel to pick from
who else is still out
CAFF
Barrett
Hall
I presume cunniffe is not being considered any more by his Statements
freeman???
any more U21's due to come in Regan, azram? Breaffy/Breaghwy need to give any else a run?
Barrett close to being fit and available for Sunday, according to Rochford in the Mayo news. The two O'Sheas and Caff not back training yet, Rochford's statement on Caff was "He'll be ready when he's ready". No mention of Hall and I'd guess Cunnife is unlikely to feature in a Mayo jersey again as things stand. As regards U21 players I'd say whoever's in the squad right now that's going to be it. Boland is the only player with regular game time, O'Donaghue and Loftus have come off the bench, very little seen of the rest. Given our FF issues I would have thought Irwin might have seen a bit more game time, at least to have a decent look at him.
Quote from: rosnarun on March 14, 2017, 12:16:57 PM
Mayo Really need to win this to wash the Dublin game out of the system.
A loss here would leave them with serious doubts about their abilities.
I see the O Sés are still out it would be nice to have a pretty full panel to pick from
who else is still out
CAFF
Barrett
Hall
I presume cunniffe is not being considered any more by his Statements
freeman???
any more U21's due to come in Regan, azram? Breaffy/Breaghwy need to give any else a run?
Keep calling him Azram and he won't be long switching to his home county.
sorry I was using the Irish version of Akram
thanks for that Bucko
I wonder is aidans injury a bit more serious than they are letting on . it was only supposed to be a minor twist originally and wasn't Caff supposed to be back training a few months back
of course I forgot Gillion and Barry moran , Probaly not starters at this stage but great men to have around esp if there a run of injuries
Quote from: rosnarun on March 15, 2017, 12:56:54 PM
sorry I was using the Irish version of Akram
thanks for that Bucko
I wonder is aidans injury a bit more serious than they are letting on . it was only supposed to be a minor twist originally and wasn't Caff supposed to be back training a few months back
of course I forgot Gillion and Barry moran , Probaly not starters at this stage but great men to have around esp if there a run of injuries
I have to correct myself, just read the piece again and it said the O'Sheas "part trained" last Sunday and might be in contention for the Tyrone game.
Cavan (NFL Division One v Mayo 19/3/2017): Raymond Galligan (Lacken); Killian Brady (Mullahoran), Rory Dunne (Redhills), Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels); Ciaran Brady (Arvagh), Killian Clarke (Shercock), Conor Moynagh (Drumgoon); Gearoid McKiernan (Swanlinbar), Tomas Corr (Denn); Martin Reilly (Killygarry), Dara McVeety (Crosserlough), Niall Clerkin (Shercock); Paul O'Connor (Cavan Gaels), Conor Madden (Gowna), Sean Johnston (Cavan Gaels). Subs: James Farrelly (Kingscourt), Fergal Reilly (Castlerahan), Niall McKiernan (Lacken), Michael Argue (Bailieborough), Cian Mackey (Castlerahan), Niall Murray (Cavan Gaels), John McCutcheon (Cootehill Celtic), Gerard Smith (Lavey), Shane O'Rourke (Laragh United), Stephen Murray (Cavan Gaels), Niall McDermott (Ballinagh), Joe Dillon (Kingscourt), Colm Smith (Cootehill Celtic), Liam Buchanan (Ballymachugh), Joshua Hayes (Cootehill Celtic).
1. David Clarke (Ballina Stephenites)
2. Brendan Harrison (Aghamore)
3. Keith Higgins (Ballyhaunis)
4. Paddy Durcan (Castlebar Mitchels)
5. Colm Boyle (Davitts)
6. Lee Keegan (Westport)
7. Donal Vaughan (Ballinrobe)
8. Tom Parsons (Charlestown)
9. Danny Kirby (Castlebar Mitchels)
10. Fergal Boland (Aghamore)
11. Cillian O'Connor (Ballintubber, Capt)
12. Conor O'Shea (Breaffy)
13. Kevin McLoughlin (Knockmore)
14. Andy Moran (Ballaghaderreen)
15. Conor Loftus (Crossmolina)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 17, 2017, 10:10:02 PM
1. David Clarke (Ballina Stephenites)
2. Brendan Harrison (Aghamore)
3. Keith Higgins (Ballyhaunis)
4. Paddy Durcan (Castlebar Mitchels)
5. Colm Boyle (Davitts)
6. Lee Keegan (Westport)
7. Donal Vaughan (Ballinrobe)
8. Tom Parsons (Charlestown)
9. Danny Kirby (Castlebar Mitchels)
10. Fergal Boland (Aghamore)
11. Cillian O'Connor (Ballintubber, Capt)
12. Conor O'Shea (Breaffy)
13. Kevin McLoughlin (Knockmore)
14. Andy Moran (Ballaghaderreen)
15. Conor Loftus (Crossmolina)
Thanks Farr.
Cavan lad told me they haven't won a D1 game since 04,don't know if it's true but...
There's no better time to play Mayo.Its Machale park.Get Yere face into Mayo from the start,works for Tyrone Monaghan Dublin yearly.Id say our Croke record is better than "Home",Breffni win today keeps us in the mess,and for 3yrs others results than our own endeavour have seen to our survival.
Cruising until a minute ago...
Very well worked goal, big Gearoid is some player.
Cavan motoring well now, one up.
Enjoying this game.
Agreed. Good match and quite open.
Would like to see the Ulster team prevail but from a Tyrone point of view I'd rather face a Mayo team safe in Division 1 rather than a team in a relegation fight.
Danny Kirby having the game of his life here.
Ref screwed Cavan there, definite free not given and Mayo go straight up and equalise.
In a real fight here now. Kirby doing very well, is it 4 points he has?
Keegan with another.
Some lovely points being kicked off the outside of the boot today.
Dara McVeety a great wee player. Can Cavan hold on?
Inter-county footballers are well able to kick points from range when they don't have a little voice in their head saying, "Don't shoot, play the percentages".
Some good footballers on that cavan side. Unsure they will hold on though. Mckernan very comfortable on both feet.
Is enda varley on mayo panel?
It's all very well the Cavan line shouting "Keep ball", but don't do it in your FB line.
Super result for Cavan
brilliant game there. some great point kicking from both sides. cavan were excellent, committed alot of men forward when they got the ball and fully deserve their 2 points. well done.
Disappointed but not shocked.
Once again our lack of scoring forwards came back to haunt us, don't even think we created one goal chance in the game. That about says it all. We were so one dimensional in our forward line. Kevin Mac seems afraid to shoot, he worked his backside off, but forwards are supposed to score.
I am afraid we could be bound for Div 2, unless we beat Donegal, cannot see us beating tyrone away with current squad.
When the penny drops with Rochford & Co. that the missing link is the complete absence of pace in the forward line, Mayo will be some team.
It's not about having lads that can kick a point.
There are plenty of lads who can kick a point in that forward line.
It is incredibly hard to do so however when you can't put any distance between yourself and the fella marking you.
Cavan football gets a much needed shot in the arm and for the new managerial project, a big boost. Very solid step forward and by my reckoning, our first win over an out and out top tier side since...well actually I can't remember the last comparable scalp. Great stuff. Hope they fight like demons now to stay up.
Quote from: joemamas on March 19, 2017, 03:46:00 PM
Disappointed but not shocked.
Once again our lack of scoring forwards came back to haunt us, don't even think we created one goal chance in the game. That about says it all. We were so one dimensional in our forward line. Kevin Mac seems afraid to shoot, he worked his backside off, but forwards are supposed to score.
I am afraid we could be bound for Div 2, unless we beat Donegal, cannot see us beating tyrone away with current squad.
Terrible home record continues. Sucked into a battle now. We'll see if the players are good enough to get us out of it.
Perfectly good goal disallowed. Plus Clerkin fouled not given and Mayo went up and got point. Should have being more comfortable.
Up there with the worse ever Mayo league result however i don't want to take away from Cavan who were brilliant on the day on and off the field.
Well done cavan. Poor enough from mayo, tough enough to stay up now
Cavan goal before half-time was massive - Cavan hadn't really played well up until then but they looked a different side in the second half.
The worrying thing for Mayo is that Cavan had 4 goal chances - th
If Cavan beat Kerry, Kerry could well be needing something from their last game against Tyrone to stay up.
One plus for Cavan is that while their score difference isn't great, they have a head-to-head win over Mayo and have the possibility of getting one against Kerry, which boosts their chances of survival a fair bit, especially as those are the two teams they are likeliest to end up level on points with. The way the table is means that it's far likelier that head-to-head will determine the 2nd relegated team rather than score difference (which only comes into play if 3 teams or more end up on level points)
Well done Cavan. Had a plan! Kept their discipline and deserved their victory. Mayo started well and looked like they could pull away in the first half. The lack of tactical awareness in dealing with the situation was worrying. This game was a carbon copy of the Monaghan game and only a fool would have not expected such a game. We chased the game game when we were leading by 5 points! Very naive! We should have sat back and played them at their own game. Mayo player looked very tired near the end.
We're not dead yet boys. More commentary after pints
Well done the Ulster boys :)
I've never seen so many balls "over the top" as cavan played. Looking at the dublin goal in particular they maybe targeted this as a weakness?
Still i imagine only 2 or 3 of that starting forward line will start for mayo come summer.
When Gearoid is on song lads he's top quality, he stroked over that 50+ metre free like it was nothing. Cavan were composed and stayed in the game even when it looked like Mayo couldn't miss. Martin Reilly's pass to Mossy who caught it one handed and popped over was a sweet piece of play. McVeety was industrious. And Joe Dillon, don't think he's played all year? Came on and sealed it. Did the same thing in an U21 Championship game against Monaghan in 2013, an excellent cameo.
We may still get relegated but we've put in a performance to get a win with our backs to the wall and given ourselves a chance of surviving. If we go down we'll have gone down with a fight. Fair play to the lads and to McGleenan.
Anyone else think the ref rode Cavan a bit? Clerkin was definitely fouled by Vaughan and I'd like another look at the 'foul' by McVeety before the goal....
Quote from: Westside on March 19, 2017, 06:06:24 PM
Anyone else think the ref rode Cavan a bit?
No, its not like either side had a bucket full of kickable frees.
Quote from: blast05 on March 19, 2017, 06:30:11 PM
Quote from: Westside on March 19, 2017, 06:06:24 PM
Anyone else think the ref rode Cavan a bit?
No, its not like either side had a bucket full of kickable frees.
He did us for 1-1, the free out for the goal was a joke however he was very good ref in general.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 19, 2017, 04:27:59 PM
Well done Cavan. Had a plan! Kept their discipline and deserved their victory. Mayo started well and looked like they could pull away in the first half. The lack of tactical awareness in dealing with the situation was worrying. This game was a carbon copy of the Monaghan game and only a fool would have not expected such a game. We chased the game game when we were leading by 5 points! Very naive! We should have sat back and played them at their own game. Mayo player looked very tired near the end.
Good post. When are we going to learn? The exact same thing also happened in the championship against Galway last year. We need to get a lot a smarter and realise when to sit back and when to push forward. Today, we were consistently hit with morale sapping counter attacks as we pushed forward at the wrong times. We went a point up with 15 minutes to go, had a home crowd behind us and still didn't have sufficient game management to see the game out. Worrying.
Our lack of goals is also a major concern. In the first half, the Cavan keeper botched a short kick out. The type of thing that has killed us over the last few years, yet we go straight for the point when presented with the opportunity. Well done Cavan, they took their chances when they came.
They may as well rename D2 the Connacht League.
Good game by Cavan especially in the last 1/4.
Afaics the disallowed goal looked legit, but I didn't get a 2nd viewing.
Mayo players just seemed to give up in the added time, just didn't want to make the effort.
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 19, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.
Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.
Quote from: Syferus on March 19, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 19, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.
Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.
Maybe Cavan did their homework, had a plan and showed discipline in sticking to it?
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 19, 2017, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on March 19, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 19, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.
Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.
Maybe Cavan did their homework, had a plan and showed discipline in sticking to it?
Cavan are and always have been a worse side than us, if that helps you put what happened to ye into perspective.
Quote from: Syferus on March 19, 2017, 06:38:22 PM
They may as well rename D2 the Connacht League.
We might survive yet . dumb fook
Quote from: Syferus on March 19, 2017, 07:38:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 19, 2017, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on March 19, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 19, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Maybe Mayo did a lot of heavy training during the week.
Maybe they did a bit of training on Friday afternoon after the parade.
Maybe Cavan did their homework, had a plan and showed discipline in sticking to it?
Cavan are and always have been a worse side than us, if that helps you put what happened to ye into perspective.
Always have been? Count up the titles moron. We'd have to go down a division to find a team Roscommon are better than now.
Two poor performances back to back now. We looked inept, with effort and urgency lacking in a lot of areas. Looked incapable of breaking down Cavan's massed defence and couldn't cope with their counter attacks either, pushing up too many players and leaving wide open spaces for Cavan to attack into. Struggled to get any decent foothold in midfield. Boyle, Vaughan, and Parsons have played a lot better, McLoughlin was anonymous while I'd say that was easily Cillian O'Connor's worst performance in a Mayo jersey. Durcan, Keegan in the second half, Kirby, O'Shea worked hard to keep us in it. Quantum leap in performance needed for next two Sundays, otherwise we'll be going down to D2 with two serious beatings. Fair play to Cavan, they had a plan, stuck to it and worked hard, deserved the win.
On the one hand we should be delighted in Mayo with 14 scores from play against a massed defense that was very disciplined.
However .... no goal chances, no real drive & energy when the game was there in the melting pot ... didn't even see Colm Boyles tigerish traits. I think it was that deep down the players didn't think they would need to push themselves to the absolute limit to win this and then couldn't switch it on when needed. Its as if it didn't register with the players that Cavan were going to be playing for their lives.
A few things stood out to me though from a Mayo perspective.
Cillian ... am i allowed to actually even think this but when Mayo play against a massed disciplined defense, is he actually worth his place give his lack of pace? Add to this that his free-taking has gone off the boil (temporarily) and he actually looked like a passenger today.
The lack of the half back-line bursting through in support ... off the shoulder running. This has been a key and essential part of our game for 5 or 6 years. I didn't see it today even once from Boyler, not once from Vaughan while Leeroy only seemed to switch into this mode in last quarter. It was desperately needed today to burst through the massed defense.
Keith Higgins ..... definitely not a full back but the manner in which he has been standing off his opponent in the last few games is inexplicable. He has always stood a metre or 2 off his opponent but so far this season it was more like 3 or 4 metres. Is he still in pre-season mode or is it the start of a decline? (feels as blasphemous a thought as my comments on Cillian)
Danny Kirby .... a dream performance or ?? Scored 4 brilliant pts from play ... every one of them a peach of a score. However, does he really have the engine and athleticism to make a difference in the engine room during the summer. It felt in the second half when Cavan turned us over when we attacked that neither himself or Parsons were in a position to in any way stop or affect the Cavan counter attack. For sure he deserves to start the next day but himself and Parsons need to figure out and understand that we don't need the 2 of them in constant attack mode. Today was a day - in the second half in particular - that demanded that one of them was sort of sweeping in front of the number 6 position
Strength and conditioning .... while we have no reason (obviously) to question this given our summer performances, the one thing that stands out for me is the lack of pace in at least half a dozen players .... a lack of pace to the point where i would call some players slow ... Cillian, Donnie, Kirby, etc. And there are plenty of others that, while not slow, could do with an extra half yard. Now i'm no expert and i know its not as simple as lean forward slightly, front of foot only touching ground, high knees, don't put your arms across your body .... and simple stuff like that. But, surely the science behind the strength and conditioning is able to identify the muscle sets (for a specific player) that need to improve to increase that players explosiveness. I know there is only so much that can be done but it does seem like we have more than our fair share of medium paced players.
Anyway, i fully expect a high energy, blood and guts performance v Tyrone (we've only played a single half of football like that so far in the league ... 2nd half v Kerry). Tyrone of course will be wounded after Donegal game and will feel they have unfinished business after championship last year. So, should be a cracker if nothing else.... tough one to call
Pat Holmes came in for a fair amount of stick for his comments after a Tyrone league game s few years back.
Rochford deserves the same after his newstalk interview. My reading of it is that they had a choice to try and beat Cavan at their own game or engage our own game and see how it would pan out. We chose the latter. The question I would ask the management is where was plan B? We should have gone to the 1-14 Ulster formation as soon as we went 5 ahead.
The good thing is that 2 or 3 of our stalwarts are found out now rather than next summer. I still trust Rochford but it's time for bravery now and to start dropping some lads or change their positions.
What's the news on AOS?
Thought Parsons was good. One of the few that could run direct and not turn back. Kirby and O Shea kicked nice points but we need more pace and penetration from midfielders and half forwards. MD Macauley cant kick a ball but he scatters men and opens things up. Last night pace and power from Paul Flynn, Darren O Sullivan and Kevin McManamen shook things up for each team. Donegal have real go- forward pace now too. We seem to be going the other way.
Without an in-form Diarmuid O Connor we are struggling in this aspect. I would like to see Kevin McLoughlin concentrated on this type of role as well. I dunno what he was supposed to be doing today tbh. I don t think he did either. I know we have injury issues but todays selection did not make a lot of sense. The Dublin game showed us up to be slow. Yet today we put out a slower team.
Quote from: highorlow on March 19, 2017, 10:39:48 PM
Pat Holmes came in for a fair amount of stick for his comments after a Tyrone league game s few years back.
Rochford deserves the same after his newstalk interview. My reading of it is that they had a choice to try and beat Cavan at their own game or engage our own game and see how it would pan out. We chose the latter. The question I would ask the management is where was plan B? We should have gone to the 1-14 Ulster formation as soon as we went 5 ahead.
The good thing is that 2 or 3 of our stalwarts are found out now rather than next summer. I still trust Rochford but it's time for bravery now and to start dropping some lads or change their positions.
What's the news on AOS?
Rochford comes off a bit daft in interviews but it's not like he's the only manager who relies on nonsense when talking to the media. McStay was talking about moral victories after taking a tanking today. And Gavin and Horan seem to think a smug smile is some sort of revolutionary deflection technique..
No need for mass dropping of players (yet). But there has to be a bit of courage shown from the line. The blanket defense is here to stay. We played Tyrone at their own game last August. But for what ever reason we see ourselves as above doing the same against Galway, Monaghan and (now) Cavan!
I do understand that Mayo training is scattered at this time of the year. With a lot of the players living outside the county. Preparing for games can be difficult. We have been sh*te in the League year in year out since 2010, Just surviving relegation on many occasions, it's just the way it has been for us.
One bonus from today's result is that any talk of a League final have been put to bed. The Championship is all that matters and wasting energy on trying to win the league is not an option.
Quote from: blast05 on March 19, 2017, 10:37:47 PM
On the one hand we should be delighted in Mayo with 14 scores from play against a massed defense that was very disciplined.
However .... no goal chances, no real drive & energy when the game was there in the melting pot ... didn't even see Colm Boyles tigerish traits. I think it was that deep down the players didn't think they would need to push themselves to the absolute limit to win this and then couldn't switch it on when needed. Its as if it didn't register with the players that Cavan were going to be playing for their lives.
A few things stood out to me though from a Mayo perspective.
Cillian ... am i allowed to actually even think this but when Mayo play against a massed disciplined defense, is he actually worth his place give his lack of pace? Add to this that his free-taking has gone off the boil (temporarily) and he actually looked like a passenger today.
The lack of the half back-line bursting through in support ... off the shoulder running. This has been a key and essential part of our game for 5 or 6 years. I didn't see it today even once from Boyler, not once from Vaughan while Leeroy only seemed to switch into this mode in last quarter. It was desperately needed today to burst through the massed defense.
Keith Higgins ..... definitely not a full back but the manner in which he has been standing off his opponent in the last few games is inexplicable. He has always stood a metre or 2 off his opponent but so far this season it was more like 3 or 4 metres. Is he still in pre-season mode or is it the start of a decline? (feels as blasphemous a thought as my comments on Cillian)
Danny Kirby .... a dream performance or ?? Scored 4 brilliant pts from play ... every one of them a peach of a score. However, does he really have the engine and athleticism to make a difference in the engine room during the summer. It felt in the second half when Cavan turned us over when we attacked that neither himself or Parsons were in a position to in any way stop or affect the Cavan counter attack. For sure he deserves to start the next day but himself and Parsons need to figure out and understand that we don't need the 2 of them in constant attack mode. Today was a day - in the second half in particular - that demanded that one of them was sort of sweeping in front of the number 6 position
Strength and conditioning .... while we have no reason (obviously) to question this given our summer performances, the one thing that stands out for me is the lack of pace in at least half a dozen players .... a lack of pace to the point where i would call some players slow ... Cillian, Donnie, Kirby, etc. And there are plenty of others that, while not slow, could do with an extra half yard. Now i'm no expert and i know its not as simple as lean forward slightly, front of foot only touching ground, high knees, don't put your arms across your body .... and simple stuff like that. But, surely the science behind the strength and conditioning is able to identify the muscle sets (for a specific player) that need to improve to increase that players explosiveness. I know there is only so much that can be done but it does seem like we have more than our fair share of medium paced players.
Anyway, i fully expect a high energy, blood and guts performance v Tyrone (we've only played a single half of football like that so far in the league ... 2nd half v Kerry). Tyrone of course will be wounded after Donegal game and will feel they have unfinished business after championship last year. So, should be a cracker if nothing else.... tough one to call
That's good blast. The only thing I would disagree with is I can't see much hope for us v Tyrone or Donegal either. We are hopeless against teams that play with numbers back and today showed that if you defend narrow against us we are particularly hopeless.
Maybe Harrison is a better bet for the 3 role now because Higgins plays so far off his man it's ridiculous. That Cavan goal was a sucker punch waiting to happen all first half.
Correct about frees as well.
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 19, 2017, 11:11:34 PM
No need for mass dropping of players (yet). But there has to be a bit of courage shown from the line. The blanket defense is here to stay. We played Tyrone at their own game last August. But for what ever reason we see ourselves as above doing the same against Galway, Monaghan and (now) Cavan!
I do understand that Mayo training is scattered at this time of the year. With a lot of the players living outside the county. Preparing for games can be difficult. We have been sh*te in the League year in year out since 2010, Just surviving relegation on many occasions, it's just the way it has been for us.
One bonus from today's result is that any talk of a League final have been put to bed. The Championship is all that matters and wasting energy on trying to win the league is not an option.
Yeah. Trying to win the league wasn't something anybody was interested in, was it. Relegation is a worry though. Now, with the run in we have it's a possibility - a probability even. If we cant deal with Cavan/Monaghan blanket, it's hard to imagine how we can get the better of two teams that do that kind of thing even better. Our personnel will be similar and I actually believe the players are giving it their best shot. But we keep getting rope-a-doped. The players looked deflated and disillusioned in last couple of minutes today. 3 mins. injury time. I don't think we would have got another score if it was 10. It was a 2 point trouncing really.
Quote from: Itchy on March 19, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.
Nail on head. Mayo would have done better if they had less primary possession, sat back and counter attacked. We just ran into a brick wall and got done on the counter.
The other thing was that we did not get enough shots off from distance when we had the wind in first half.
Quote from: Itchy on March 19, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.
In fairness Mayo played more open than Cavan! There was never going to be a one on one high ball played into the Cavan goalmouth. The way to beat Cavan today was to mimic Cavan. When Mayo were 5 points up they should have shut up shop and let Cavan do the running. Instead they played like a team who were behind.
Mayo have been sh*te in the league now for almost 7 years. To top it off McHale road is no fortress for us. The themes we are debating today have been the same themes in other league campaigns. We have had a lot of luck staying up over that period. Our luck could run out this year. (And it might not be the end of the world!)
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 19, 2017, 11:48:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 19, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
Do mayo fans realise that when cavan attached with no speed on occasion, Mayo got the exact same amount of players behind the ball. Every team is doing it, there was nothing extraordinary about how cavan set up today. Mayo just seemed very low on pace and urgency to me.
In fairness Mayo played more open than Cavan! There was never going to be a one on one high ball played into the Cavan goalmouth. The way to beat Cavan today was to mimic Cavan. When Mayo were 5 points up they should have shut up shop and let Cavan do the running. Instead they played like a team who were behind.
Mayo have been sh*te in the league now for almost 7 years. To top it off McHale road is no fortress for us. The themes we are debating today have been the same themes in other league campaigns. We have had a lot of luck staying up over that period. Our luck could run out this year. (And it might not be the end of the world!)
We are a gift for any team to play against that want's a bit of a boost.
Cavan today, for example, would be expecting that they would be able to get a forward inside isolated 1 on 1. When that defender is Keith Higgins he is going to give away several yards off his man as well as a few inches and size. Snap!
Defend narrow. That swamps down a lot of Mayo's best runners from deep and right now we don't have wing forwards that can beat players down the line. A sweeper or 2 and ball into ff line is a waste of time as well.
Doesn't help either tho when our build up play is slow and lateral and gives time for the opposition time to get their numbers back and set up. When we played Tyrone in the quarter final we used Dillon as the out option to get the ball back up the pitch as quickly as possible after we turned possession back from Tyrone. It put Tyrone under pressure and yielded frees from rash tackling by Tyrone defenders rushing back. Today we worked the ball through the hands out of defence for the most part, played right into Cavan's hands. In relation to McLoughlins role, has the tactic of him as a sweeper been abandoned altogether? I just would of thought that as he seemed to have settled into the role by the end of the championship that the league would've been used to further bed it down and develop it. Right now other than man to man and just getting numbers back we aren't playing any obvious kind of defensive set up in this league.
Quote from: bucko on March 20, 2017, 12:40:07 AM
Doesn't help either tho when our build up play is slow and lateral and gives time for the opposition time to get their numbers back and set up. When we played Tyrone in the quarter final we used Dillon as the out option to get the ball back up the pitch as quickly as possible after we turned possession back from Tyrone. It put Tyrone under pressure and yielded frees from rash tackling by Tyrone defenders rushing back. Today we worked the ball through the hands out of defence for the most part, played right into Cavan's hands. In relation to McLoughlins role, has the tactic of him as a sweeper been abandoned altogether? I just would of thought that as he seemed to have settled into the role by the end of the championship that the league would've been used to further bed it down and develop it. Right now other than man to man and just getting numbers back we aren't playing any obvious kind of defensive set up in this league.
The McLoughlin sweeper thing will kick in again later I expect. Or somebody else doing that role. My biggest concern is 10 and 12. With DOC off colour we are not stretching teams and they can defend narrow. McLoughlin as a pure wing forward has to be considered now. Hopefully DOC will get back fresh later. Boland is doing very well but more of a play maker and finisher than a player that can tear by players and break down massed defence.
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?
For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.
I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2017, 04:10:19 PM
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?
For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.
I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.
Do you think Mayo were at their peak last August in their less than impressive performances against Tyrone and Tipperary?
Mayo stayed up last year on scoring difference that league form was brought into the championship to allow Galway topple them in June. A repeat this summer and Galway will beat Mayo
again.
Well done to Cavan yesterday. What makes the NFL great is shock results like that
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 20, 2017, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2017, 04:10:19 PM
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?
For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.
I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.
Do you think Mayo were at their peak last August in their less than impressive performances against Tyrone and Tipperary?
Mayo stayed up last year on scoring difference that league form was brought into the championship to allow Galway topple them in June. A repeat this summer and Galway will beat Mayo
again.
Well done to Cavan yesterday. What makes the NFL great is shock results like that
I agree last years performances in August weren't great but still they did enough to win both those games.This group have only lost in August once since 2011 so they've been extremely consistent in the championship. As a team they've been on a downward curve since 14 but yet they've could easily have beaten the Dubs in 15 & 16.
Quote from: blast05 on March 19, 2017, 10:37:47 PM
On the one hand we should be delighted in Mayo with 14 scores from play against a massed defense that was very disciplined.
However .... no goal chances, no real drive & energy when the game was there in the melting pot ... didn't even see Colm Boyles tigerish traits. I think it was that deep down the players didn't think they would need to push themselves to the absolute limit to win this and then couldn't switch it on when needed. Its as if it didn't register with the players that Cavan were going to be playing for their lives.
A few things stood out to me though from a Mayo perspective.
Cillian ... am i allowed to actually even think this but when Mayo play against a massed disciplined defense, is he actually worth his place give his lack of pace? Add to this that his free-taking has gone off the boil (temporarily) and he actually looked like a passenger today.
The lack of the half back-line bursting through in support ... off the shoulder running. This has been a key and essential part of our game for 5 or 6 years. I didn't see it today even once from Boyler, not once from Vaughan while Leeroy only seemed to switch into this mode in last quarter. It was desperately needed today to burst through the massed defense.
Keith Higgins ..... definitely not a full back but the manner in which he has been standing off his opponent in the last few games is inexplicable. He has always stood a metre or 2 off his opponent but so far this season it was more like 3 or 4 metres. Is he still in pre-season mode or is it the start of a decline? (feels as blasphemous a thought as my comments on Cillian)
Danny Kirby .... a dream performance or ?? Scored 4 brilliant pts from play ... every one of them a peach of a score. However, does he really have the engine and athleticism to make a difference in the engine room during the summer. It felt in the second half when Cavan turned us over when we attacked that neither himself or Parsons were in a position to in any way stop or affect the Cavan counter attack. For sure he deserves to start the next day but himself and Parsons need to figure out and understand that we don't need the 2 of them in constant attack mode. Today was a day - in the second half in particular - that demanded that one of them was sort of sweeping in front of the number 6 position
Strength and conditioning .... while we have no reason (obviously) to question this given our summer performances, the one thing that stands out for me is the lack of pace in at least half a dozen players .... a lack of pace to the point where i would call some players slow ... Cillian, Donnie, Kirby, etc. And there are plenty of others that, while not slow, could do with an extra half yard. Now i'm no expert and i know its not as simple as lean forward slightly, front of foot only touching ground, high knees, don't put your arms across your body .... and simple stuff like that. But, surely the science behind the strength and conditioning is able to identify the muscle sets (for a specific player) that need to improve to increase that players explosiveness. I know there is only so much that can be done but it does seem like we have more than our fair share of medium paced players.
Anyway, i fully expect a high energy, blood and guts performance v Tyrone (we've only played a single half of football like that so far in the league ... 2nd half v Kerry). Tyrone of course will be wounded after Donegal game and will feel they have unfinished business after championship last year. So, should be a cracker if nothing else.... tough one to call
Hard to disagree with most of that.
I think a lot of our problems at the back could be solved by putting Keith Higgins in as the sweeper. He's lost the yard of pace needed for the fb line and he's been caught out a few times but would still have enough awareness and running to play that link role.
Less pressing but Durcan also needs to move out of the FB line
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2017, 04:10:19 PM
Whats the story with Cafferkey, must be about 12 months since he last played?
For all the stick Doherty gets he certainly adds pace to that Mayo front 6 which was a noticeable miss yesterday. The younger forwards who've come into the panel in recent years appear to lack pace too, haven't seen enough of Loftus but he didn't look like he was that quick yesterday.
I certainly wouldn't be writing Mayo off just yet, they've a habit of peaking at the right time of the season but I'd much rather be playing Mayo in mid June rather than the middle of August.
Cafferkey was coming along nicely but had a 'set-back' before FBD where he was expected to play a bit. The latest is that he is still 4 weeks rehab from resuming full training with panel. So it is still a long term thing with him. As Rochford said ' he'll be ready when he's ready'. Hopefully he gets back.
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 20, 2017, 11:03:38 PM
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.
Strikes me as the archetypal winter footballer who would not thrive when the Summer sets in and the ground hardens. Mayo actually have a few of that type already. Big lads who can kick a score but maybe lacking a bit in pace and mobility. Loftus is of that ilk as well I think. Physicality is the one thing they're not missing anyway.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on March 20, 2017, 11:44:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 20, 2017, 11:03:38 PM
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.
Strikes me as the archetypal winter footballer who would not thrive when the Summer sets in and the ground hardens. Mayo actually have a few of that type already. Big lads who can kick a score but maybe lacking a bit in pace and mobility. Loftus is of that ilk as well I think. Physicality is the one thing they're not missing anyway.
Yeah. I don't think some realise how claustrophobic it is for inside forwards against blanket defences. Size, pace and skill inside are almost ineffective now. It's more like rugby now with line breaks and support runners running lines in the middle third that make openings and opportunities to get shots off. Pace is damn all good if there is no space. The best defenders have pace as well and teams have more defenders back than forwards means there is no space.
Pace is king.
Look at the impact Cormac Costello had in the final last year when the game was in the melting point.
He was able to make that yard of space for himself to get the shot off.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 20, 2017, 11:03:38 PM
Give Kirby a go at FF as well, see how he gets on.
He'd offer a physical presence and he's well able to kick a score.
I'd say put him in the half-forward line if anywhere (and that's only if you had pace in both the other 2 half-forward line spots)
I think he's not that great defensively.
I don't see Kirby as a full forward at this level, looks like he is accurate from distance and not afraid to take a shot on.
He's a player that would need pace around him to get the right balance into the team and looking at that Mayo midfield and forward line it certainly isn't blessed with much pace. I just don't see how you can get SOS, AOS, Parsons, Moran, COC and Kirby into the same 8-15.
There is not much to come into that Mayo team attacking wise. They will probably improve as they usally do, but a few of their players look deflated. Only so many big defeats they can take.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2017, 10:42:17 AM
Pace is king.
Look at the impact Cormac Costello had in the final last year when the game was in the melting point.
He was able to make that yard of space for himself to get the shot off.
The game was stretched, big fast pitch, tired defenders who were slow to readjust to subs coming on. So there was that space there for him without him having to do a pile. Fellas that started didn't get the same joy. Contrast Kevin McMenamon's impact when he comes on in games to when he starts.
Quote from: moysider on March 21, 2017, 10:26:45 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2017, 10:42:17 AM
Pace is king.
Look at the impact Cormac Costello had in the final last year when the game was in the melting point.
He was able to make that yard of space for himself to get the shot off.
The game was stretched, big fast pitch, tired defenders who were slow to readjust to subs coming on. So there was that space there for him without him having to do a pile. Fellas that started didn't get the same joy. Contrast Kevin McMenamon's impact when he comes on in games to when he starts.
He was an All-Star lock until the two finals last year so that's not a great example to use.
Quote from: Syferus on March 23, 2017, 12:53:53 AM
Quote from: moysider on March 21, 2017, 10:26:45 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2017, 10:42:17 AM
Pace is king.
Look at the impact Cormac Costello had in the final last year when the game was in the melting point.
He was able to make that yard of space for himself to get the shot off.
The game was stretched, big fast pitch, tired defenders who were slow to readjust to subs coming on. So there was that space there for him without him having to do a pile. Fellas that started didn't get the same joy. Contrast Kevin McMenamon's impact when he comes on in games to when he starts.
He was an All-Star lock until the two finals last year so that's not a great example to use.
Who?
Exactly.