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with even Degen impressing!

dont understand your problem with Degen. i must have missed the many games he has played and did not impress. He is a very fast fullback with enough skill and footballing ability to be versatile enough to play in midfield and not look out of place. nice option to have esp with Dirk not having his best spell out wide

Glad to see Dirk get a couple, though his second touch is usually a tackle, his work rate is something else. And the bottom line is, he is a striker, not a winger. Interesting to see his goal return if Rafa sticks with him up front in Freddie's absence

The Shankill Butchers - The Decemberists

superabound  - frank black
love & mathematics - broken social scene
late at night - buffalo tom
trainspotters - the frank & walters
sin city - ac/dc

Where do you start?

I have rarely posted on here of late partly because of the demise of the team and some of the shite that's being said and partly because I have been a Rafa supporter. Right now my instinct tells me, and has been taking hold of me for some time now, that it is time for a change.

Sick listening to the boardroom trouble and the potential for new investment. The Foster Gillette affair has further dragged the reputation of the club through the dirt. The Yanks have done nothing positive for the club that the previous owner couldn't have done. Empty promises on new stadiums, in fighting, approaching other managers, basically just giving the finger to what true followers refer to as the Liverpool Way, something which like it or not can no longer be associate with the club at present.

The fact that the team has continued to prosper (up until this season) and progress meant that Rafa has been held in the highest of regard. Undoubtedly, the improvement of the team and the title challenge last year has proved that Rafa been good for Liverpool and has been successful. But Gerard Houllier was a success also in the early years. He finally got full control of transfers and the departure of Rick Parry but with no money to spend his hands have been tied.

Yes, I accept that Rafa has severe restrictions to deal with, however, he appears to be losing control of things and the players simply are not performing. When things get this bad, a closer scrutiny of the manager is undertaken and the irritating things that have gone on in the past begin to crop up. Irregular team selections, substitutions that leave you scratching your head but you think Rafa knows best, playing players out of position, reluctance to let the team express themselves, preoccupation with systems, percentages and organisation, persistence with players who aren't up to the task, Robbie Keane, spending on youth players who have potential but never shows trust in them it goes on and on.

Rafa has signed some great players for Liverpool. Alonso, Reina, Mascherano, Torres and others which have certainly been a success such as Crouch, Sissoko, Skrtel, Agger, Aurelio, Kuyt, Benayoun, Luis Garcia. Plenty have come in who have not been good enough but to be fair to Rafa good players have had to be sold to but better ones due to lack of funds. If  Liverpool had the money of Chelsea their team would look much better at the minute.

Every game and the performance of the team continues to frustrate. The owners, the bad press, the lack of money for transfers continue to take their toll on the players and fans and indeed the manager. The team is simply not performing. When Reading forced extra time last night the first thing I noticed was that the team had no leadership in the final third. Nobody who could grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Gerrard has been poor this season and you can see in his play just how frustrated he is with the standard of play around him. Torres continues to yap at referees, Insua is a liability. How Aurelio is not getting on I don't know. Negativity in terms of tactics and team selection means poor performances on the pitch. The champions league has always offered fans the evidence that the team was among the best and that Rafa would get there but not this season. Rafa's cold approach really falters when the team isn't playing well. He is too detached and too methodical. I would love to see what Babel could do with the right man management and confidence.

I just don't know anymore. I just hope Rafa can turn it around. If he leaves I wouldn't bank on the owners making the right appointment. At the minute it appears that the players could be on the verge of losing faith. If Liverpool don't show signs of serious improvement of their position in the next month in the absence of Gerrard and Torres then their will be a big decision to make. If that is the case Rafa must go whatever the cost and someone brought in not as an interim appointment but permanently. Who I don't know but they will have 3 months to show the likes of Torres and Gerrard that they can be part of a successful club in the coming seasons.

For now, the players must stand up and be counted. If they do great. If they don't, then a lot of them do not have the quality or menatlity to play for Liverpool. The positivity of last season has just made this season hurt so much more. Can't help but wonder how the team would fare if they were given the freedom to play attacking football with proper wingers and 2 strikers. Harry Redknapp always gets his teams playing good football for him. Liverpool are crying out for someone like that at the minute. Rafa, I fear your time is up.

hello all

that is a super post. I wish Rafa could turn it around also, but I dont know anymore, 5 odd years, a tonne of money spent on mostly drivel.  Maybe the players need a new man to mange them. I'd side with O'Neil but as said previously, I doubt he'd take the job. But for me he's the best around.

tomorrows game is gonna be a nervy affair