The ulster rugby trial

Started by caprea, February 01, 2018, 11:45:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Hound

Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.

 

AQMP

Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.

Is there any evidence that either the alleged victim, Olding or someone else wiped it on her clothing?

Jackson's lie - what was that?

johnneycool

I wonder how the coppers couldn't find Oldings clothing from the night in question!

AQMP

Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
I wonder how the coppers couldn't find Oldings clothing from the night in question!
Because it's the PSNI we're talking about!

AQMP

Court is done for today.  Police interviews (of all parties) tomorrow.

Frank_The_Tank

Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
I wonder how the coppers couldn't find Oldings clothing from the night in question!

perhaps he was getting them dry cleaned.  He may have changed from clothes he was wearing on night out in his parents house as an example.  I dont think finding his clothes from the night in question would be massively telling for either the prosecution or defence
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

johnneycool

Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 21, 2018, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
I wonder how the coppers couldn't find Oldings clothing from the night in question!

perhaps he was getting them dry cleaned.  He may have changed from clothes he was wearing on night out in his parents house as an example.  I don't think finding his clothes from the night in question would be massively telling for either the prosecution or defence

I understand that, but surely the cops asked him where they were and unless they got the "no comment" response, it is strange IMO.




magpie seanie

Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.



Another false equivalence.

She made an incorrect assertion to a doctor and corrected it for her police statement, did she not? Calling it a lie is a bit harsh.....I'm sure she wasn't under caution in the rape crisis centre. She was also pretty traumatised at the time - there is supporting evidence from several parties to confirm this - so I think she can be forgiven in the light of all these matters and her otherwise very believable and consistent evidence.

No such mitigating circumstances exist for Jackson (or Olding). Olding's clothes never recovered either. People might say they panicked when the accusations were in the offing so at best they've stupidly made up some lies which I think is a crime anyway.

Police statements tomorrow including recordings of defendants.

Hound

Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.

Is there any evidence that either the alleged victim, Olding or someone else wiped it on her clothing?

Jackson's lie - what was that?
Jackson said in a police statement that he just used his fingers. Witness said different and said it was 100%.

Not sure what the angle is re where the mess went. What difference does it make?

AQMP

Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 21, 2018, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
I wonder how the coppers couldn't find Oldings clothing from the night in question!

perhaps he was getting them dry cleaned.  He may have changed from clothes he was wearing on night out in his parents house as an example. I dont think finding his clothes from the night in question would be massively telling for either the prosecution or defence

Is that what he said happened??

AQMP

Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:41:29 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.

Is there any evidence that either the alleged victim, Olding or someone else wiped it on her clothing?

Jackson's lie - what was that?
Jackson said in a police statement that he just used his fingers. Witness said different and said it was 100%.

Not sure what the angle is re where the mess went. What difference does it make?

Sorry, are you saying that the fact that Jackson lied about whether he had full penetrative sex or not with an alleged rape victim, is neither here nor there in terms of the case?

Hound

Quote from: magpie seanie on February 21, 2018, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.



Another false equivalence.

She made an incorrect assertion to a doctor and corrected it for her police statement, did she not? Calling it a lie is a bit harsh.....I'm sure she wasn't under caution in the rape crisis centre. She was also pretty traumatised at the time - there is supporting evidence from several parties to confirm this - so I think she can be forgiven in the light of all these matters and her otherwise very believable and consistent evidence.

No such mitigating circumstances exist for Jackson (or Olding). Olding's clothes never recovered either. People might say they panicked when the accusations were in the offing so at best they've stupidly made up some lies which I think is a crime anyway.

Police statements tomorrow including recordings of defendants.
Like I said, I agree that the defendant's lie or incorrect assertion has little relevance to the substance of the case. But unlike you, I think Jackson's lie is similar. He also would have been under severe stress when he made his statement, and perhaps (wrongly) thought that because he hadn't "finished" that embellishing his story with an "incorrect assertion" might help his case.

Police statements will be interesting alright.

WT4E

One thing I've learned.

No wonder the courts are under pressure - they start late, finish early and take long lunches!

Do some work!

magpie seanie

Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 21, 2018, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.



Another false equivalence.

She made an incorrect assertion to a doctor and corrected it for her police statement, did she not? Calling it a lie is a bit harsh.....I'm sure she wasn't under caution in the rape crisis centre. She was also pretty traumatised at the time - there is supporting evidence from several parties to confirm this - so I think she can be forgiven in the light of all these matters and her otherwise very believable and consistent evidence.

No such mitigating circumstances exist for Jackson (or Olding). Olding's clothes never recovered either. People might say they panicked when the accusations were in the offing so at best they've stupidly made up some lies which I think is a crime anyway.

Police statements tomorrow including recordings of defendants.
Like I said, I agree that the defendant's lie or incorrect assertion has little relevance to the substance of the case. But unlike you, I think Jackson's lie is similar. He also would have been under severe stress when he made his statement, and perhaps (wrongly) thought that because he hadn't "finished" that embellishing his story with an "incorrect assertion" might help his case.

Police statements will be interesting alright.

You are joking? Please tell me you're joking?

AQMP

Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:41:29 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 21, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
Olding's semen was found on the alleged victim's underwear, top and jeans, does that contradict Olding's assertion that he ejaculated on his stomach??
Would that be relevant one way or the other?
It could have ended up on the clothes by wiping hands on it or something.

She told the doctor a lie about Olding, but like Jackson's lie, I don't think it matters to the substantive issue of the case.

Is there any evidence that either the alleged victim, Olding or someone else wiped it on her clothing?

Jackson's lie - what was that?
Jackson said in a police statement that he just used his fingers. Witness said different and said it was 100%.

Not sure what the angle is re where the mess went. What difference does it make?

Well, regarding the "mess", Olding might have to explain, if he ejaculated on his stomach and went to the bathroom to clean up (as he has stated), how did the semen get on three items of the victim's clothing.