Can anyone explain to me why the Kurds do everything right and still end up on the wrong end of a decent outcome.
Quote from: omochain on March 31, 2018, 04:52:17 AM
Can anyone explain to me why the Kurds do everything right and still end up on the wrong end of a decent outcome.
Turkey was always going to be the problem, should be out of NATO except all others are afraid of them and who they will ally with given the West has armed them to the teeth with best of everything. The Ottoman Empire is on the rise again.
Kurds are the liberal media poster boy of the Middle East, they're not whiter than white as the guardian would tell you. It's a complex situation where the west should seek to mediate in but it's much more favourable for the powers that be to aggravate relations. It saps Arab resources, sows discord amongst the region hence strengthing the Israeli hand and diverting eyes from their atrocities.
The west have taken a keen interest in arming Syrian rebels and Kurds and in the process given rise to extremist elements like Isis. A dirty dirty affair.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 31, 2018, 09:10:23 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 31, 2018, 04:52:17 AM
Can anyone explain to me why the Kurds do everything right and still end up on the wrong end of a decent outcome.
Turkey was always going to be the problem, should be out of NATO except all others are afraid of them and who they will ally with given the West has armed them to the teeth with best of everything. The Ottoman Empire is on the rise again.
Erdogan is a maniac the worst thing to happen was that coup to fail. He is a shit stirrer and has been encouraging trouble among the Turkish migrant populations in Europe. Dodgy links to ISIS too. Let's not forget it wasn't that long ago they stole half of Cyprus. EU and US just ignore their antics sure ffs they shoot down a Russian jet and even the Russians just ignore it after a while. Honestly I just don't get it.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 31, 2018, 12:24:34 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 31, 2018, 09:10:23 AM
Quote from: omochain on March 31, 2018, 04:52:17 AM
Can anyone explain to me why the Kurds do everything right and still end up on the wrong end of a decent outcome.
Turkey was always going to be the problem, should be out of NATO except all others are afraid of them and who they will ally with given the West has armed them to the teeth with best of everything. The Ottoman Empire is on the rise again.
Erdogan is a maniac the worst thing to happen was that coup to fail. He is a shit stirrer and has been encouraging trouble among the Turkish migrant populations in Europe. Dodgy links to ISIS too. Let's not forget it wasn't that long ago they stole half of Cyprus. EU and US just ignore their antics sure ffs they shoot down a Russian jet and even the Russians just ignore it after a while. Honestly I just don't get it.
Before Trump, the West would not take on Turkey because they fear the consequences with Erdogan in charge. Trump is an Erdogan wannabe.
Quote from: omochain on March 31, 2018, 04:52:17 AM
Can anyone explain to me why the Kurds do everything right and still end up on the wrong end of a decent outcome.
Historical and contemporary cultural links to Iran probably doesn't help their causes. We should all know what horse has the West's backing in the Saudi-Iranian proxy wars.
Quote from: omochain on March 31, 2018, 04:52:17 AM
Can anyone explain to me why the Kurds do everything right and still end up on the wrong end of a decent outcome.
The Lausanne conference in 1920 or so divided up the Ottoman empire. The Kurds weren't even invited. Neither were the Armenians who had been the subject of genocide.
Turkey is still an empire where Sunni Turks lord it over Kurds and Shia Alevis
Some very interesting takes on the dilemma. Anyway when you are close to the heart of an Empire and are not fully committed to the program you will be screwed. Remind you of anyone/any country you know.
Quote from: trileacman on March 31, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
Kurds are the liberal media poster boy of the Middle East, they're not whiter than white as the guardian would tell you. It's a complex situation where the west should seek to mediate in but it's much more favourable for the powers that be to aggravate relations. It saps Arab resources, sows discord amongst the region hence strengthing the Israeli hand and diverting eyes from their atrocities.
The west have taken a keen interest in arming Syrian rebels and Kurds and in the process given rise to extremist elements like Isis. A dirty dirty affair.
Enlighten us as to what the Kurds have done wrong relative to what they've endured so.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 03, 2018, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 31, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
Kurds are the liberal media poster boy of the Middle East, they're not whiter than white as the guardian would tell you. It's a complex situation where the west should seek to mediate in but it's much more favourable for the powers that be to aggravate relations. It saps Arab resources, sows discord amongst the region hence strengthing the Israeli hand and diverting eyes from their atrocities.
The west have taken a keen interest in arming Syrian rebels and Kurds and in the process given rise to extremist elements like Isis. A dirty dirty affair.
Enlighten us as to what the Kurds have done wrong relative to what they've endured so.
They gleefully acted as the executioners during the Armenian death marches during the genocide. Look it up it's all there. They were the bloodied right hand of the Ottoman empire.
Of course their role in the genocide is conveniently forgot by the editors of the Western media.
edit: here's a link to some of the atrocities carried out by them in Syria as reported by Amnesty International, fair play to the guardian for running the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians)
Quote from: trileacman on April 03, 2018, 07:56:48 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 03, 2018, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 31, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
Kurds are the liberal media poster boy of the Middle East, they're not whiter than white as the guardian would tell you. It's a complex situation where the west should seek to mediate in but it's much more favourable for the powers that be to aggravate relations. It saps Arab resources, sows discord amongst the region hence strengthing the Israeli hand and diverting eyes from their atrocities.
The west have taken a keen interest in arming Syrian rebels and Kurds and in the process given rise to extremist elements like Isis. A dirty dirty affair.
Enlighten us as to what the Kurds have done wrong relative to what they've endured so.
They gleefully acted as the executioners during the Armenian death marches during the genocide. Look it up it's all there. They were the bloodied right hand of the Ottoman empire.
Of course their role in the genocide is conveniently forgot by the editors of the Western media.
edit: here's a link to some of the atrocities carried out by them in Syria as reported by Amnesty International, fair play to the guardian for running the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians)
I didn't know that... interesting
Quote from: trileacman on April 03, 2018, 07:56:48 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 03, 2018, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 31, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
Kurds are the liberal media poster boy of the Middle East, they're not whiter than white as the guardian would tell you. It's a complex situation where the west should seek to mediate in but it's much more favourable for the powers that be to aggravate relations. It saps Arab resources, sows discord amongst the region hence strengthing the Israeli hand and diverting eyes from their atrocities.
The west have taken a keen interest in arming Syrian rebels and Kurds and in the process given rise to extremist elements like Isis. A dirty dirty affair.
Enlighten us as to what the Kurds have done wrong relative to what they've endured so.
They gleefully acted as the executioners during the Armenian death marches during the genocide. Look it up it's all there. They were the bloodied right hand of the Ottoman empire.
Of course their role in the genocide is conveniently forgot by the editors of the Western media.
edit: here's a link to some of the atrocities carried out by them in Syria as reported by Amnesty International, fair play to the guardian for running the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians)
I did not know that either.
But on the balance of things I still think in this current debacle that they are being screwed.
Quote from: trileacman on April 03, 2018, 07:56:48 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 03, 2018, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 31, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
Kurds are the liberal media poster boy of the Middle East, they're not whiter than white as the guardian would tell you. It's a complex situation where the west should seek to mediate in but it's much more favourable for the powers that be to aggravate relations. It saps Arab resources, sows discord amongst the region hence strengthing the Israeli hand and diverting eyes from their atrocities.
The west have taken a keen interest in arming Syrian rebels and Kurds and in the process given rise to extremist elements like Isis. A dirty dirty affair.
Enlighten us as to what the Kurds have done wrong relative to what they've endured so.
They gleefully acted as the executioners during the Armenian death marches during the genocide. Look it up it's all there. They were the bloodied right hand of the Ottoman empire.
Of course their role in the genocide is conveniently forgot by the editors of the Western media.
edit: here's a link to some of the atrocities carried out by them in Syria as reported by Amnesty International, fair play to the guardian for running the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians)
As with the other posters I say thanks for providing that information. I expected there was plenty I didn't know and realised the Kurds were no altar boys. It did seem to me they were always getting fcuked over though quite clearly it's not all one way.
Even if some Kurds in the past did terrible things there is no excuse for the Turks denying them a state today.
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Even if some Kurds in the past did terrible things there is no excuse for the Turks denying them a state today.
I never said they did. I'm just pointing out the myopic view that the Kurds are and always have been the victims is "fake news". The media perpuate fallacies like this because either they or the society to which they cater can't accept a world that hasn't been painted in black and white.
Quote from: trileacman on April 04, 2018, 09:47:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Even if some Kurds in the past did terrible things there is no excuse for the Turks denying them a state today.
I never said they did. I'm just pointing out the myopic view that the Kurds are and always have been the victims is "fake news". The media perpuate fallacies like this because either they or the society to which they cater can't accept a world that hasn't been painted in black and white.
Good point. Media narratives tend to be very simplistic
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 04, 2018, 09:47:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Even if some Kurds in the past did terrible things there is no excuse for the Turks denying them a state today.
I never said they did. I'm just pointing out the myopic view that the Kurds are and always have been the victims is "fake news". The media perpuate fallacies like this because either they or the society to which they cater can't accept a world that hasn't been painted in black and white.
Good point. Media narratives tend to be very simplistic
Agree and this discussion is an example of what can be achieved by actually doing that - discussing. A two way conversation. Be willing to hear as well as give your own opinion.