Quinn Insurance in Administration

[seafoid]

There is no point in blaming the government. The country is run by the Troika and SQ couldn't convince them. WTF was he doing laying a bet that brought down the whole house anyway ? 

The Sliabh Russell operation  lost 45m last year. The insurer was lossmaking. How much money has the concrete and glass been making in the depression ?     

[sammymaguire]

There is no point in blaming the government. The country is run by the Troika and SQ couldn't convince them. WTF was he doing laying a bet that brought down the whole house anyway ? 

The Sliabh Russell operation  lost 45m last year. The insurer was lossmaking. How much money has the concrete and glass been making in the depression ?   

€20m per month PROFIT in 2008. Liberty Mutual not going to make any money from it then?

I am surprised that anything is left at all considering the buthcery into the businesses that he built up.

[Lone Shark]

It was a different world in 2008.

And that's if you trust the accounts from back then - which very few people do.

[supersarsfields]

There is no point in blaming the government. The country is run by the Troika and SQ couldn't convince them. WTF was he doing laying a bet that brought down the whole house anyway ? 

The Sliabh Russell operation  lost 45m last year. The insurer was lossmaking. How much money has the concrete and glass been making in the depression ?   

People need to realise what they read in the paper is what Anglo/ the State want you to hear. The Slieve Russell lost 45M because of write down of Anglo loans. It made an operating profit of over one million last year. But that fact wouldn't fit in with the "Bad businessman" view that Anglo are trying so desperately to paint of Sean Quinn.

You also seem to forget that Sean Quinn made a bet based on fraudlent figures provided by Anglo. Another fact that Anglo/ The state like to leave in the background!!

To add another idea of just what is going on up in the group now. Allegedly they paid the 15 year Head of IT of last week to add to the other senior managers that they have paid huge money to make room for more jobs for the boys!!

[ludermor]

There is no point in blaming the government. The country is run by the Troika and SQ couldn't convince them. WTF was he doing laying a bet that brought down the whole house anyway ? 

The Sliabh Russell operation  lost 45m last year. The insurer was lossmaking. How much money has the concrete and glass been making in the depression ?   

€20m per month PROFIT in 2008. Liberty Mutual not going to make any money from it then?

I am surprised that anything is left at all considering the buthcery into the businesses that he fucked built up.

[seafoid]

There is no point in blaming the government. The country is run by the Troika and SQ couldn't convince them. WTF was he doing laying a bet that brought down the whole house anyway ? 

The Sliabh Russell operation  lost 45m last year. The insurer was lossmaking. How much money has the concrete and glass been making in the depression ?   

€20m per month PROFIT in 2008. Liberty Mutual not going to make any money from it then?

I am surprised that anything is left at all considering the buthcery into the businesses that he built up.

Sammy

You have numbers from 2008 The UK claims ratio went through the roof in 2009. Quinn didn't understand insurance. He thought sell em cheap pile em high was a goer. The model collapsed once recession hit dear old Blighty.

http://www.tca.ie/images/uploaded/documents/2011%20Conference%20-%20Colm%20McCarthy%20slides.pdf

slides 3-5 explain what happened

[sammymaguire]

Has Quinn Insurance closed down? not to my knowledge, so he must have been doing something right  so your nice little slideshow is pretty irrelevant it is not? all these academics know better than those who are actually at the coal face. 

[seafoid]

Has Quinn Insurance closed down? not to my knowledge, so he must have been doing something right  so your nice little slideshow is pretty irrelevant it is not? all these academics know better than those who are actually at the coal face. 

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0913/insurance-business.html

A bill published today proposes a new levy of up to 2% on non-life insurance policies.

Court order on Quinn Insurance deal details
Finance Minister Michael Noonan has published a bill which proposes a new levy of up to 2% on non-life insurance policies.

This is to help fund the Insurance Compensation Fund (ICF), which exists to protect insurance policyholders in the event that an insurer cannot meet its liabilities. Health insurance is not covered by the levy.

The administrators of Quinn Insurance Ltd will need to call upon the fund due to losses in the business. It is estimated that they will need €320m in the final quarter of this year, but there is only €40m in the fund at the moment. Funding will also be needed for the coming years.


Sammy, a stor.  Everyone in the country is paying €600 to SQ via Anglo and everyone with a non life insurance policy is paying 2% of premiums.
In 2009 Quinn Insurance recorded losses of €905m, while last year its estimated losses were €160m. So that 's a nice tidy 4 billion give or take he lost. 

TBH I didn't realise how bad it was

[Cde]

There is no point in blaming the government. The country is run by the Troika and SQ couldn't convince them. WTF was he doing laying a bet that brought down the whole house anyway ? 

The Sliabh Russell operation  lost 45m last year. The insurer was lossmaking. How much money has the concrete and glass been making in the depression ?   

People need to realise what they read in the paper is what Anglo/ the State want you to hear. The Slieve Russell lost 45M because of write down of Anglo loans. It made an operating profit of over one million last year. But that fact wouldn't fit in with the "Bad businessman" view that Anglo are trying so desperately to paint of Sean Quinn.

You also seem to forget that Sean Quinn made a bet based on fraudlent figures provided by Anglo. Another fact that Anglo/ The state like to leave in the background!!

To add another idea of just what is going on up in the group now. Allegedly they paid the 15 year Head of IT of last week to add to the other senior managers that they have paid huge money to make room for more jobs for the boys!!

according to the Irish Times   http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1112/1224307462172.html  accounts filed for the Slieve Russell hotel, which he founded, show it incurred a loss of €45.4 million in 2009, after the company took an impairment charge of €43.3 million on fixed assets.

This is still a loss of over 2m  not a profit of 1m

[supersarsfields]

Last year. 2010

[sammymaguire]

Should we burn him at the stake? and his wife too for being married to him? Is he ten times worse than the many Property Developers who owe the banks millions through NAMA but have all their millions in their wives names?

I am still of the opinion, that yes, he completely fucked up, massively, but if given the time to address it, the Quinn Group would have got themselves out of the mess they got themselves in to.

That opportunity was taken away from them much too quickly for the liking of hundreds of people in the border region of Fermanagh / Cavan / Leitrim etc...

Not much point going on about the what ifs and buts etc, whats done is done now and the quicker they get Q2 up and running the better imo

[muppet]

When Sean Quinn entered the Contract for Difference I thought Anglo didn't know about it. My understanding is that he would use a CFD house, normally in London or New York, for the transaction and one of the advantages of CFS is that no one knew who was behind it. i.e. the shares were held by the CFD house and Quinn's name wouldn't appear.

Are you saying he actually used Anglo advisors while creating the transaction?

My gathering is that the CFD's were built up using his own money, then with the drop in share price he made it known to Anglo that he wasn't in a position to meet them. At this point Anglo then lent SQ money under which the guarantees were attached. But Anglo provided no legal advise on these loans and/or guarantees, which is part of the case the Quinns are disputing.

Again this is from my limited grasp of the cases the Quinns are making so could be wrong as it's the CFD's area where it starts to get confusing.

Just wondering if anyone else can answer something for me. Is there any other benefit for the State to want to Bankrupt SQ in the South other than preventing him to go into business again for 12 years? Is there any financial reasons why they would be down money if it happens in the North?

Typically the CFD would be a bet whereby, for example, 10% is paid up front. If the bet goes the wrong way you have to either get out or keep shoveling in money so the CFD house always has the other 90% of the original transaction (the value of 90% of  the shares + what ever you have had to shovel into them).

If what you say is true, that Anglo lent him money to buy out the CFD then that would be completely illegal. A bank cannot lend for the purposes of purchasing shares in itself. This is the same as the Maple 10 issue.

I doubt any advisors would ever admit to giving such advice.

[supersarsfields]

As far as I gather that's it Muppet. The basis of the Quinns claim is that Anglo lent the money to support it's own share price. Hence them now claiming the loans to be illegal.

[deiseach]

In what possible way could they have worked with him? Given him a thousand years to pay it off? The gap between what he borrowed and what he could have repaid is astronomical.

was he not a billionaire, worth an astronomical amount of money before things went so badly wrong on him?  did that take a thousand years?? Stupid thing to say.

He was a billionaire on paper. So was Bernie Madoff.

[Lone Shark]

Should we burn him at the stake? and his wife too for being married to him? Is he ten times worse than the many Property Developers who owe the banks millions through NAMA but have all their millions in their wives names?

I am still of the opinion, that yes, he completely fucked up, massively, but if given the time to address it, the Quinn Group would have got themselves out of the mess they got themselves in to.

That opportunity was taken away from them much too quickly for the liking of hundreds of people in the border region of Fermanagh / Cavan / Leitrim etc...

Not much point going on about the what ifs and buts etc, whats done is done now and the quicker they get Q2 up and running the better imo

Is he any worse than Johnny Ronan and the boys? No. Is he any better? No.


The man made a killing in construction related businesses during the biggest property boom the world has ever seen, and lost his shirt and half the wardrobe of the nation when he dabbled in financials. I'm sorry but there is no way I'd be investing in a man like that to make a second fortune.

And while his loyalty to the border counties has of course ensured loyalty from locals in return, you'll excuse the rest of us for not being overly enamoured with the prospect of paying fortunes in extra taxes just to fill in holes that are all the bigger because of the absence of whole companies that were swapped in exchange for a laptop.