'THE DEFAULT REFERENDUM'

[muppet]

Just for the sake of argument lawnseed, how would you word your proposed referendum? A default isn't like an on-off switch. A lot of complex things happen, with even more complex consequences. So what exactly are you thinking of putting before the people?

at last a relevant response!
iolarcoiscuain I'm not overly sure what way it should be worded but i know we have to stop borrowing money to prop up our failed banks. what should have happened 2 years ago was to let the whole lot fail and create a government bank or nationalise one of the banks probably bank of ireland.
you say we cant just turn off the switch.. zimbabwe ditched their own dollar and adopted the US dollar thus eliminating inflation and stabilising their economy- inflation was 50% PER DAY
Our hands are not tied we may have to crash our economy completely to restart it.. better that than have it rot away before our eyes and be enslaved.
the bondholders don't expect to get paid at this stage alot of them have already traded off our debt and taken the pain.

back to the referendum question- probably something similar to what iceland asked its citizens

Iceland's unemployment quadrupled after their default and Zimbabwe!

Some serious research needs to be done first. Default is disastrous, the question is 'is it less disastrous?'.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Just for the sake of argument lawnseed, how would you word your proposed referendum? A default isn't like an on-off switch. A lot of complex things happen, with even more complex consequences. So what exactly are you thinking of putting before the people?

at last a relevant response!
iolarcoiscuain I'm not overly sure what way it should be worded but i know we have to stop borrowing money to prop up our failed banks. what should have happened 2 years ago was to let the whole lot fail and create a government bank or nationalise one of the banks probably bank of ireland.
you say we cant just turn off the switch.. zimbabwe ditched their own dollar and adopted the US dollar thus eliminating inflation and stabilising their economy- inflation was 50% PER DAY
Our hands are not tied we may have to crash our economy completely to restart it.. better that than have it rot away before our eyes and be enslaved.
the bondholders don't expect to get paid at this stage alot of them have already traded off our debt and taken the pain.

back to the referendum question- probably something similar to what iceland asked its citizens

Iceland's unemployment quadrupled after their default and Zimbabwe!

Some serious research needs to be done first. Default is disastrous, the question is 'is it less disastrous?'.

It's gas to me how people talking about "pain" and "enslavement" and then think defaulting on debt will bring less "pain" and "enslavement." Lads, this is the big rock candy mountain compared to what a default would do.

And if we do default, and we're there queuing three hours for a loaf of rationed bread in the shops, how exactly will be restore the economy then? With whom will we trade? Not Britain or Continental Europe - we just stiffed them for a lot of dough. Don't see the Yanks hanging around. With whom do we trade?

[lawnseed]

Just for the sake of argument lawnseed, how would you word your proposed referendum? A default isn't like an on-off switch. A lot of complex things happen, with even more complex consequences. So what exactly are you thinking of putting before the people?

at last a relevant response!
iolarcoiscuain I'm not overly sure what way it should be worded but i know we have to stop borrowing money to prop up our failed banks. what should have happened 2 years ago was to let the whole lot fail and create a government bank or nationalise one of the banks probably bank of ireland.
you say we cant just turn off the switch.. zimbabwe ditched their own dollar and adopted the US dollar thus eliminating inflation and stabilising their economy- inflation was 50% PER DAY
Our hands are not tied we may have to crash our economy completely to restart it.. better that than have it rot away before our eyes and be enslaved.
the bondholders don't expect to get paid at this stage alot of them have already traded off our debt and taken the pain.

back to the referendum question- probably something similar to what iceland asked its citizens

Iceland's unemployment quadrupled after their default and Zimbabwe!

Some serious research needs to be done first. Default is disastrous, the question is 'is it less disastrous?'.

acumulating this debt and foisting it on the people of ireland was/is the disaster. your right both these countries experience short periods of turmoil and upheaval but this passed quickly and although they are not out of the woods at least they are the masters of their own destiny and not taking orders from somewhere else. our country is not lost we just have to take ownership of the place and treat it with some respect, we need someone to lead who is unfettered and uninfluenced by parochial politics or croneyism and big business and someone who isnt just there to feather their own nest... not easy

[Declan]

Scaremongering re default is just that. Lads the fact of the matter is that there will be a default/restructuring of the debt. It's inevitable. We cannot afford the repayments. As i said earlier in the thread we need to act for the citizens  not the banks of Europe. Tell the ECB/IMF that we will pay off the debt over 100 years or so and if they don't like they'll get nothing. The single Euro currency project is dead in the water as one size does not fit all
I suggested last year that we should approach other countries for loans e.g China,Brazil, etc as I'm sure they would love to get an in into the Eurozone.
The current strategy is slowly killing our country and will devastate the country for the next 20 years or so. There is no chance of us recovering within the confines of the current system. The system is broken. The head of the leading HEdge fund in thew world says it's unfair and they are not exactly bleeding heart socialists. The German and French banks are knackered and the whole edifice is collapsing. Deposits are fleeing the Irish banks , Portugal is next. I was told last year to take whatever savings I had out of Ireland and buy gold/silver or Swiss francs.
I'm relatively lucky in that my personal debt isn't great and mortgage is manageable - assuming I remain working - but when the kids are finished college I'm gone to pasture anew. Ireland Inc is kaput

[lawnseed]

Just for the sake of argument lawnseed, how would you word your proposed referendum? A default isn't like an on-off switch. A lot of complex things happen, with even more complex consequences. So what exactly are you thinking of putting before the people?

at last a relevant response!
iolarcoiscuain I'm not overly sure what way it should be worded but i know we have to stop borrowing money to prop up our failed banks. what should have happened 2 years ago was to let the whole lot fail and create a government bank or nationalise one of the banks probably bank of ireland.
you say we cant just turn off the switch.. zimbabwe ditched their own dollar and adopted the US dollar thus eliminating inflation and stabilising their economy- inflation was 50% PER DAY
Our hands are not tied we may have to crash our economy completely to restart it.. better that than have it rot away before our eyes and be enslaved.
the bondholders don't expect to get paid at this stage alot of them have already traded off our debt and taken the pain.

back to the referendum question- probably something similar to what iceland asked its citizens

Iceland's unemployment quadrupled after their default and Zimbabwe!

Some serious research needs to be done first. Default is disastrous, the question is 'is it less disastrous?'.

It's gas to me how people talking about "pain" and "enslavement" and then think defaulting on debt will bring less "pain" and "enslavement." Lads, this is the big rock candy mountain compared to what a default would do.

And if we do default, and we're there queuing three hours for a loaf of rationed bread in the shops, how exactly will be restore the economy then? With whom will we trade? Not Britain or Continental Europe - we just stiffed them for a lot of dough. Don't see the Yanks hanging around. With whom do we trade?

it takes 3 hours to get a loaf in iceland..?
i think your missing the point theres not an economist in ireland whos not predicting default by the end of 2012 or early 2013 government borrowing is up on this period last year and thats with the cuts and the extra taxes. the country IS BANKRUPT we are living on handouts to pay the interest on debts acumulated by crooks and traitors, our politicians are merely administrators for the ecb. we were'nt happy under the crown what makes you think our new rulers are going to be any better

[muppet]

Just for the sake of argument lawnseed, how would you word your proposed referendum? A default isn't like an on-off switch. A lot of complex things happen, with even more complex consequences. So what exactly are you thinking of putting before the people?

at last a relevant response!
iolarcoiscuain I'm not overly sure what way it should be worded but i know we have to stop borrowing money to prop up our failed banks. what should have happened 2 years ago was to let the whole lot fail and create a government bank or nationalise one of the banks probably bank of ireland.
you say we cant just turn off the switch.. zimbabwe ditched their own dollar and adopted the US dollar thus eliminating inflation and stabilising their economy- inflation was 50% PER DAY
Our hands are not tied we may have to crash our economy completely to restart it.. better that than have it rot away before our eyes and be enslaved.
the bondholders don't expect to get paid at this stage alot of them have already traded off our debt and taken the pain.

back to the referendum question- probably something similar to what iceland asked its citizens

Iceland's unemployment quadrupled after their default and Zimbabwe!

Some serious research needs to be done first. Default is disastrous, the question is 'is it less disastrous?'.

It's gas to me how people talking about "pain" and "enslavement" and then think defaulting on debt will bring less "pain" and "enslavement." Lads, this is the big rock candy mountain compared to what a default would do.

And if we do default, and we're there queuing three hours for a loaf of rationed bread in the shops, how exactly will be restore the economy then? With whom will we trade? Not Britain or Continental Europe - we just stiffed them for a lot of dough. Don't see the Yanks hanging around. With whom do we trade?

it takes 3 hours to get a loaf in iceland..?
i think your missing the point theres not an economist in ireland whos not predicting default by the end of 2012 or early 2013 government borrowing is up on this period last year and thats with the cuts and the extra taxes. the country IS BANKRUPT we are living on handouts to pay the interest on debts acumulated by crooks and traitors, our politicians are merely administrators for the ecb. we were'nt happy under the crown what makes you think our new rulers are going to be any better

There is a massive difference between default and restructuring. We need it to be the latter, if we pulled the plug last week it would have been the former.

[lawnseed]

Scaremongering re default is just that. Lads the fact of the matter is that there will be a default/restructuring of the debt. It's inevitable. We cannot afford the repayments. As i said earlier in the thread we need to act for the citizens  not the banks of Europe. Tell the ECB/IMF that we will pay off the debt over 100 years or so and if they don't like they'll get nothing. The single Euro currency project is dead in the water as one size does not fit all
I suggested last year that we should approach other countries for loans e.g China,Brazil, etc as I'm sure they would love to get an in into the Eurozone.
The current strategy is slowly killing our country and will devastate the country for the next 20 years or so. There is no chance of us recovering within the confines of the current system. The system is broken. The head of the leading HEdge fund in thew world says it's unfair and they are not exactly bleeding heart socialists. The German and French banks are knackered and the whole edifice is collapsing. Deposits are fleeing the Irish banks , Portugal is next. I was told last year to take whatever savings I had out of Ireland and buy gold/silver or Swiss francs.
I'm relatively lucky in that my personal debt isn't great and mortgage is manageable - assuming I remain working - but when the kids are finished college I'm gone to pasture anew. Ireland Inc is kaput

vote for declan you have it. some of the european banks who our wankers got money from were already zombie banks who lent and lent and lent because it was the only business they were doing.. and now they/we are fukd our european "friends" are standing hands out looking for money that these banks never had in the first place

[lawnseed]

Just for the sake of argument lawnseed, how would you word your proposed referendum? A default isn't like an on-off switch. A lot of complex things happen, with even more complex consequences. So what exactly are you thinking of putting before the people?

at last a relevant response!
iolarcoiscuain I'm not overly sure what way it should be worded but i know we have to stop borrowing money to prop up our failed banks. what should have happened 2 years ago was to let the whole lot fail and create a government bank or nationalise one of the banks probably bank of ireland.
you say we cant just turn off the switch.. zimbabwe ditched their own dollar and adopted the US dollar thus eliminating inflation and stabilising their economy- inflation was 50% PER DAY
Our hands are not tied we may have to crash our economy completely to restart it.. better that than have it rot away before our eyes and be enslaved.
the bondholders don't expect to get paid at this stage alot of them have already traded off our debt and taken the pain.

back to the referendum question- probably something similar to what iceland asked its citizens

Iceland's unemployment quadrupled after their default and Zimbabwe!

Some serious research needs to be done first. Default is disastrous, the question is 'is it less disastrous?'.

It's gas to me how people talking about "pain" and "enslavement" and then think defaulting on debt will bring less "pain" and "enslavement." Lads, this is the big rock candy mountain compared to what a default would do.

And if we do default, and we're there queuing three hours for a loaf of rationed bread in the shops, how exactly will be restore the economy then? With whom will we trade? Not Britain or Continental Europe - we just stiffed them for a lot of dough. Don't see the Yanks hanging around. With whom do we trade?

it takes 3 hours to get a loaf in iceland..?
i think your missing the point theres not an economist in ireland whos not predicting default by the end of 2012 or early 2013 government borrowing is up on this period last year and thats with the cuts and the extra taxes. the country IS BANKRUPT we are living on handouts to pay the interest on debts acumulated by crooks and traitors, our politicians are merely administrators for the ecb. we were'nt happy under the crown what makes you think our new rulers are going to be any better

There is a massive difference between default and restructuring. We need it to be the latter, if we pulled the plug last week it would have been the former.

mere terminology.. heres how it works.. sorry lads the value of your investment can go up as well as down better luck next time.. we can offer you 10 cents on the euro.. maybe.. it depends what the people of ireland want they are the boss

[muppet]

mere terminology.. heres how it works.. sorry lads the value of your investment can go up as well as down better luck next time.. we can offer you 10 cents on the euro.. maybe.. it depends what the people of ireland want they are the boss

If we do a disorderly default, we will be calling everyone on earth boss.

[lawnseed]

mere terminology.. heres how it works.. sorry lads the value of your investment can go up as well as down better luck next time.. we can offer you 10 cents on the euro.. maybe.. it depends what the people of ireland want they are the boss

If we do a disorderly default, we will be calling everyone on earth boss.

we've been doing it since the vikings landed we're well used to it boss

[lawnseed]

iceland say no again and give britain and the netherlands the two fingers, it can be done

[muppet]

iceland say no again and give britain and the netherlands the two fingers, it can be done

It can but it is the worst way to do it.

Negotiated default is much better all round.

I think all this talk of the corporate tax rate is a cover for the real problem. Most of Europe sees us (and calls us) the Wild West of banking. They also see us as a tax haven. My guess is that a deal will be struck regarding our pathetic regulation in the financial sector. The headline corporate tax rate will either be fudged or won't change and the Government will get the significant reduction in the rate (not enough imho) or the debt hopefully.

[Maguire01]

iceland say no again and give britain and the netherlands the two fingers, it can be done

Iceland now to be sued by those two countries. The BBC's analysis:

The Icelandic people were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. It looks as if they still couldn't stomach the idea of paying off the debts of privately owned banks - even if the revised deal was considerably more generous.

The consequences of this referendum vote is that Iceland's years in the financial wilderness could be extended much further.

Moody's and other ratings agencies look set to downgrade the country even further, making it prohibitively more expensive to borrow on the open markets.

Iceland's bid to join the EU will be paused or even vetoed by Britain and the Netherlands. And the tiny Atlantic economy is facing legal action in the EFTA court which might force it to pay up sooner than planned and at a punitive interest rate.

Democracy doesn't pay if you're an Icelander.

[Hardy]

It'll be interesting to see what the court makes of the proposition that the population of a state is de facto guarantor for the private debts of corporations registered in that state.

[Maguire01]

It'll be interesting to see what the court makes of the proposition that the population of a state is de facto guarantor for the private debts of corporations registered in that state.
[/quote
Regardless of any court decision though, they're still pretty fooked, both financially and politically.