irelands greatest leader since partition

[lawnseed]

John Hume.

Mary Robinson abandoned her post and "her people" as soon as an opportunity arose.

FFS lads wat are ye on about linking football titles to the Troubles. Down's win in '61 as a harbinger of the Troubles? That's ridiculous, the troubles started in response to a campaign of violence and intimidation initiated by the ruling protestant classes after the civil rights demonstrations. To say that Down's AI victory was a compelling factor in the dawn of the troubles displays a shocking disrespect to the people who suffered for years under the yoke of British oppression. I can recall several stories that involve my grandparents and also my parents, stories of segregation, discrimination and sectarianism, and I know they would be insulted to think that people today consider Down winning an AI championship a notable event in the dawning of the Troubles.

26....?

[lawnseed]

this isnt going so well lads. not many leaders names are there? thats what happens when the two parties in power are the same thing. remember when our glorious president sold croke park to bertie in exchange for a handy td job. then in typical bertie fashion they didnt select him then what did he do? he joined fine gael! thats how little there is between them.

dev? the "leader" who left america with a million dollars to help the irish people? and kept it for himself! sounds abit like fraud/treachery/theft/ betrayal.. take your pick

just picking up on something mayogod.. has mentioned, there are many irishmen who have lead and fought for great causes in recent history indeed have given up their lives for great causes. unfortunately they did their best in other countries not here

[Rossfan]

I presume Lawnseed and the other "ubers" are now totally opposed to a United Ireland as such noble beings couldn't possibly bear to be united with such an undeserving crowd as the people of the 26 Counties.

I always thought that 70% of the GAA's delegates at Congress voted in favour of allowing Croke Park to be used for soccer/rubby Internationals while Lansdowne Road was closed for redevelopment.
I never knew that Sean Kelly sold it to Bertie Ahern

There's some spoofers around her alright 

[lawnseed]

I presume Lawnseed and the other "ubers" are now totally opposed to a United Ireland as such noble beings couldn't possibly bear to be united with such an undeserving crowd as the people of the 26 Counties.

I always thought that 70% of the GAA's delegates at Congress voted in favour of allowing Croke Park to be used for soccer/rubby Internationals while Lansdowne Road was closed for redevelopment.
I never knew that Sean Kelly sold it to Bertie Ahern

There's some spoofers around her alright 

without wanting to open that can.. i merely used that example of how easy it is for an aspiring politician to switch allegiance between 'fianna gael'

any leaders out there you'd follow into battle? perhaps leo varadkar? he has volunteered the services of Irish soldiers in the ' euro rapid force' maybe you'd like to die for him?

[J70]

No mention of DeValera?

Love him or loath him, its hard to think of many who were more influential in the short history of the Republic. We're thankfully moving on from his vision of Irish life, but that does not negate his massive influence over the progress of Irish society.

The thread is about greatest not most influential. Dev hung more republicans than the British did during his time, so I certainly wouldn't call him great. Far far from it.

So what's "greatest"?

What are the parameters here?

[lawnseed]

you could start with a name and then one or two reasons why you thought that person was worth praise or respect in relation to being a leader ie someone you'd follow. the way the list is going we have sean lemass and jedward. lemass who cowtowed to the catholic church for fear of being unpopular and jedward who lead our kids to believe that they should jump around shouting oh my god with an american accent. 

[trileacman]

you could start with a name and then one or two reasons why you thought that person was worth praise or respect in relation to being a leader ie someone you'd follow. the way the list is going we have sean lemass and jedward. lemass who cowtowed to the catholic church for fear of being unpopular and jedward who lead our kids to believe that they should jump around shouting oh my god with an american accent.

Get the ball rolling yourself, shakespeare. And why the line in the sand at partition? You could have said celtic tiger, great famine, end of the 19th century, foundation of the state? Why partition?

[J70]

you could start with a name and then one or two reasons why you thought that person was worth praise or respect in relation to being a leader ie someone you'd follow. the way the list is going we have sean lemass and jedward. lemass who cowtowed to the catholic church for fear of being unpopular and jedward who lead our kids to believe that they should jump around shouting oh my god with an american accent.

Evidently an awful lot of people DID follow DeValera. He was an elected prime minister who did more to shape the first 50 years of post-partition history than anyone else, not some third world thug with an army keeping him in power.

[boojangles]

T.K Whitaker. Not a leader but a visionary. His work behind the scenes brought Ireland into the modern era.

[muppet]

any leaders out there you'd follow into battle?

Which battle do you have in mind?

I am curious to know how we were supposed to have leaders 'you'd follow into battle' in a country with a constitution of declared neutrality.

But then again I'm guessing Lawnseed didn't start this thread in good faith. It is supposed to be rhetorical.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

any leaders out there you'd follow into battle?

Which battle do you have in mind?

I am curious to know how we were supposed to have leaders 'you'd follow into battle' in a country with a constitution of declared neutrality.

But then again I'm guessing Lawnseed didn't start this thread in good faith. It is supposed to be rhetorical.

One minute he is PMSing about Ireland going into battle, the next he wants a leader for us to follow into battle.

[magpie seanie]

It's a good question and sadly a hard one to come up with many to make a strong case for. I'd probably side with John Hume, can't think of anyone better at the present. His central role in the peace process, something which has made a massive difference to all people on the island, has been well documented but I think in general he tried to do what he thought was right even if it wasn't popular.

26 counties only seanie

Sorry - that was far from clear and I've read back on the thread to make sure I didn't miss something.

Taking it as 26 counties only then yes - your point about one party government since partition is absolutely correct. I am exactly on the same page as you there. I'd even include Labour, bar throwing the odd shape and not backing it up, in that cosy cartel.

There were some good leaders who advanced the Republic but great is too big a word for any in my eyes. Party politics has ruined and continues to ruin the ROI. Policies, ideas and ideals are non-existant and to me they are largely what political leadership should be about.

[thejuice]

Politicians you'd follow into battle? Look around all of Europe and you probably wouldn't find one anywhere. Of course if it came to fighting you know full well there won't be any politicians in the trenches.

Besides this isn't medieval Europe its the 21stC, reality of today is much different. politicians are now economic managers more than leaders. The  idea of inspiring politicians with great retoric seems to really only work in america but its all hollow.

[thebigfella]

Sean Quinn - great man for creating jobs

[Canalman]

Rightly or wrongly it is obviously deValera. Cosgrave the elder deserves a mention as does Lemass. The rest............... fuggedaboutit.