Incoming President favours a tiered championship structure

Started by Jinxy, March 14, 2018, 11:39:07 AM

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AZOffaly

Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 14, 2018, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Three tiers equally promoted and with the junior and intermediate champions getting back into the senior All-Ireland semi finals is my favoured approach. This is progress though. I'm very hopeful for this President.
Senior Semi Finals Seanie? You want the Junior Champions to be parachuted into an All Ireland semi final against Dublin and Mayo say?

This is based on a plan a friend of mine drew up and I misquoted it. Junior champions play intermediate runners up for a spot in the AI semi final. 10/12/12 Senior/Inter/Junior basis (including London, NY and KK or British Champions). At least the team coming through would have won a few championship games and theoretically every county can still win Sam Maguire. 

Nothing to fear for the senior teams and counteracts practically all of the arguments against counties having to play at lower tiers.

I get you.

I still love the provincials, but if we wanted to have some sort of tiered approach, how about The 16 division 3 and division 4 teams play in a knockout game, with the 8 winners going to play the 8 division 2 teams, and then the 8 winners of that joining the division 1 teams in the last 16.

I just don't like the thoughts of tiers because of what it will do to their exposure and coverage. The players don't want it, and I think a lot of fans don't want it either. I accept a lot of fans do want something, but I think the tiered championship is largely a media construct because they don't want to waste time covering or talking about Carlow, Wicklow or Waterford.


trailer

Yes 3 tiers equally promoted. Open up Croke Park for 3682 people who turn up watch the Antrim v Waterford in Pat Spillane Cup. Not going to happen. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
It will need to be voted on by congress. You've more chance of the USA passing meaningful gun legislation than you have of the congress voting for a tiered competition.

The best thing that can happen is that Division 1 teams continuously hammer these weaker counties until the players no longer want to play for them. Unrelenting, unmerciful beatings is all these teams deserve and it must be served up to them in heaps. They're not good enough and should be reminded of that at every single juncture.


magpie seanie

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 14, 2018, 04:37:06 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 14, 2018, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Three tiers equally promoted and with the junior and intermediate champions getting back into the senior All-Ireland semi finals is my favoured approach. This is progress though. I'm very hopeful for this President.
Senior Semi Finals Seanie? You want the Junior Champions to be parachuted into an All Ireland semi final against Dublin and Mayo say?

This is based on a plan a friend of mine drew up and I misquoted it. Junior champions play intermediate runners up for a spot in the AI semi final. 10/12/12 Senior/Inter/Junior basis (including London, NY and KK or British Champions). At least the team coming through would have won a few championship games and theoretically every county can still win Sam Maguire. 

Nothing to fear for the senior teams and counteracts practically all of the arguments against counties having to play at lower tiers.

I get you.

I still love the provincials, but if we wanted to have some sort of tiered approach, how about The 16 division 3 and division 4 teams play in a knockout game, with the 8 winners going to play the 8 division 2 teams, and then the 8 winners of that joining the division 1 teams in the last 16.

I just don't like the thoughts of tiers because of what it will do to their exposure and coverage. The players don't want it, and I think a lot of fans don't want it either. I accept a lot of fans do want something, but I think the tiered championship is largely a media construct because they don't want to waste time covering or talking about Carlow, Wicklow or Waterford.

I was against it for a long time but reality needs to be faced. Why is the All-Ireland football championship the only non-tiered competition in the GAA? It's crazy.

We need to condense the county season and a tiered championship makes sense - especially if there's a backdoor route that can be accessed by all. I've no objection to playing provincial championships as well if time allows but as separate competitions with no bearing on the All-Ireland.

The players don't want what they saw before - a kiss me arse effort like the Tommy Murphy Cup. If a tiered championship in tandem with a properly structured calendar that supports club and county seasons is on the table I'll bet they'll got for it. County players are club players too.

Jinxy

Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 14, 2018, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Three tiers equally promoted and with the junior and intermediate champions getting back into the senior All-Ireland semi finals is my favoured approach. This is progress though. I'm very hopeful for this President.
Senior Semi Finals Seanie? You want the Junior Champions to be parachuted into an All Ireland semi final against Dublin and Mayo say?

This is based on a plan a friend of mine drew up and I misquoted it. Junior champions play intermediate runners up for a spot in the AI semi final. 10/12/12 Senior/Inter/Junior basis (including London, NY and KK or British Champions). At least the team coming through would have won a few championship games and theoretically every county can still win Sam Maguire. 

Nothing to fear for the senior teams and counteracts practically all of the arguments against counties having to play at lower tiers.

Not a bad idea but maybe bring them in sooner, perhaps at the quarter-final stage.
And maybe keep two spots open instead of one, i.e. top two in Inter and Junior play off (1st v 2nd).
That way, you still have a serious shot at getting a day out in the sun, with the realistic chance of taking a big scalp (vs. being landed into a semi-final against Dublin, Mayo or Kerry).
If you were any use you'd be playing.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Jinxy on March 14, 2018, 04:45:22 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 14, 2018, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Three tiers equally promoted and with the junior and intermediate champions getting back into the senior All-Ireland semi finals is my favoured approach. This is progress though. I'm very hopeful for this President.
Senior Semi Finals Seanie? You want the Junior Champions to be parachuted into an All Ireland semi final against Dublin and Mayo say?

This is based on a plan a friend of mine drew up and I misquoted it. Junior champions play intermediate runners up for a spot in the AI semi final. 10/12/12 Senior/Inter/Junior basis (including London, NY and KK or British Champions). At least the team coming through would have won a few championship games and theoretically every county can still win Sam Maguire. 

Nothing to fear for the senior teams and counteracts practically all of the arguments against counties having to play at lower tiers.

Not a bad idea but maybe bring them in sooner, perhaps at the quarter-final stage.
And maybe keep two spots open instead of one, i.e. top two in Inter and Junior play off (1st v 2nd).
That way, you still have a serious shot at getting a day out in the sun, with the realistic chance of taking a big scalp (vs. being landed into a semi-final against Dublin, Mayo or Kerry).

Just think if too many senior teams get through it completely devalues the senior championship in itself so I'd not be in favour of QF's after the individual tier championships.

Orchard park

so bring them in at semi final stage to have the living shite hammered out of them instead ???

magpie seanie

You never know.....it mightn't be that bad. Whoever it is will have won a fair few championship games and should be able to give a decent account of themselves. Weaker teams regularly get the shite hammered out of the them by big teams anyway - this actually will minimise that as they won't meet under this system bar the semi finals (which should be teams on the border of senior anyway).

And players want to play against the best - that is for definite.

Esmarelda

Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:56:47 PM
You never know.....it mightn't be that bad. Whoever it is will have won a fair few championship games and should be able to give a decent account of themselves. Weaker teams regularly get the shite hammered out of the them by big teams anyway - this actually will minimise that as they won't meet under this system bar the semi finals (which should be teams on the border of senior anyway).

And players want to play against the best - that is for definite.
Not having a go Seanie but it sort of sounds like the current system isn't too bad, which I agree with. Would the "lesser teams" prefer to win the second/third division championship or have a run through the current qualifers?

Farrandeelin

If your proposals were carried through at congress in the morning seanie, how would you go about structuring the top tier?
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 14, 2018, 05:53:13 PM
If your proposals were carried through at congress in the morning seanie, how would you go about structuring the top tier?

Two groups of 5....4 games each. Something like that. Top two in each group go into senior semi finals. Bottom two into relegation playoff semis with eventual loser going down to intermediate.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 05:03:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:56:47 PM
You never know.....it mightn't be that bad. Whoever it is will have won a fair few championship games and should be able to give a decent account of themselves. Weaker teams regularly get the shite hammered out of the them by big teams anyway - this actually will minimise that as they won't meet under this system bar the semi finals (which should be teams on the border of senior anyway).

And players want to play against the best - that is for definite.
Not having a go Seanie but it sort of sounds like the current system isn't too bad, which I agree with. Would the "lesser teams" prefer to win the second/third division championship or have a run through the current qualifers?

Not sure I understand you but I think winning a lower competition in a live televised Croke Park final and then having a crack at a higher ranked team is better than a run in the qualifiers.

Rossfan

How often does a bottom 10 say have a "run in the Qualifiers "
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Jinxy

Quote from: Esmarelda on March 14, 2018, 05:03:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:56:47 PM
You never know.....it mightn't be that bad. Whoever it is will have won a fair few championship games and should be able to give a decent account of themselves. Weaker teams regularly get the shite hammered out of the them by big teams anyway - this actually will minimise that as they won't meet under this system bar the semi finals (which should be teams on the border of senior anyway).

And players want to play against the best - that is for definite.
Not having a go Seanie but it sort of sounds like the current system isn't too bad, which I agree with. Would the "lesser teams" prefer to win the second/third division championship or have a run through the current qualifers?

I was actually thinking the same thing after I posted about having 6 senior teams and two inter/junior teams in the quarter finals, which is probably more or less how it pans out at the moment.
Maybe it's more about the journey than the destination!
We'll still end up with the same teams at the business end of the championship, but we needn't be bored to tears in the process.
I still think the tiered system gives 'weaker' teams something tangible to play for, and that's hugely important.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

thewobbler

Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2018, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Three tiers equally promoted and with the junior and intermediate champions getting back into the senior All-Ireland semi finals is my favoured approach. This is progress though. I'm very hopeful for this President.
Three tiers equally promoted?

You must have spent a few hours in make believe land.

Whether you like it or not, a tiered system in any sport by its very nature creates a tiered profile. You cannot and should not try to pretend that the completions are equal.

There are steps the GAA can take to minimise that. Guaranteed live TV coverage for one.

What's your solution?

The media doe not create the product though.

The media's ability to market/promote/hype a product is directly related to its ability to catch public interest. If the interest is there, it can snowball. If not, it melts.

The GAA might be able to force RTE to show tier 3 games, for a tenure anyway. But when all this does is televise poorly attended events that sponsors have no interest in, which mainstream media bury their match reports for, and nobody anywhere is talking about it, then the GAA might be forced to acknowledge that equality is unsustainable.


magpie seanie

Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2018, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 14, 2018, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 14, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Three tiers equally promoted and with the junior and intermediate champions getting back into the senior All-Ireland semi finals is my favoured approach. This is progress though. I'm very hopeful for this President.
Three tiers equally promoted?

You must have spent a few hours in make believe land.

Whether you like it or not, a tiered system in any sport by its very nature creates a tiered profile. You cannot and should not try to pretend that the completions are equal.

There are steps the GAA can take to minimise that. Guaranteed live TV coverage for one.

What's your solution?

The media doe not create the product though.

The media's ability to market/promote/hype a product is directly related to its ability to catch public interest. If the interest is there, it can snowball. If not, it melts.

The GAA might be able to force RTE to show tier 3 games, for a tenure anyway. But when all this does is televise poorly attended events that sponsors have no interest in, which mainstream media bury their match reports for, and nobody anywhere is talking about it, then the GAA might be forced to acknowledge that equality is unsustainable.

Or they might not. It could work out and lads in Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Wicklow, Leitrim etc might want to play football for their county and get that elusive big day in Croke Park for themselves and their supporters.

If attendances are the worry the games can be packaged with other ties to "justify" opening Croke Park. The only limitations are our imaginations. At present we've a championship that's a farce until the quarter finals and maybe even a few of them are poor. With the exception of the semi finals teams of fairly even ability should be meeting and even the semi finals will contain one team that's senior the following year.