Sad News re Coastguard

[Bud Wiser]

https://www.rt.com/news/373206-sikorsky-s92-helicopters-grounded/

[magpie seanie]

Hang on. Why do you think this crash happened? Because it was a Coast Guard helicopter instead of an Air Corps one? Who's to say the Air Corps aircraft wouldn't have met the same fate? Who can tell any of this, other than fate and/or luck? It's not as if they went up in an aircraft that wasn't suitable for the task.. sure they fly these sort of missions all the time.

I'm all for kicking Enda Kenny around, and the stupid cuts made but this strikes me as a bit tenuous, and opportunism if you don't mind me saying so.

I do mind you saying so. I think that's a bit unfair.

As for your following posts about checking the facts - I saw Kenny himself, resplendent in his green tie, comment on that and confirm the situation on RTE News Now earlier. For what that's worth.

[Aerlik]

I often look back to when I was choosing between fixed and rotary wing training.  Still wish I had done the rotary but my decision was made on family grounds. 

Choppers are not death traps as someone alluded to, because if they were, they'd never be used.  Here in Perth we have two search and rescue Hueys and the police have a Dauphin and a Kawasaki.

That there was no mayday call suggests either the pilot suffered from the effects of somatographic illusion where she got confused in the ambient black night conditions but I would suggest that is highly improbable based on her experience;  fuel starvation which I would find extremely unlikely due, again, to her experience; or a catastrophic systems failure (electrical/fuel/mechanical/structural) one of which may have instigated one or more of the others. 

Either way, a sad occasion for us all.

[AZOffaly]

Apologies. I know you're not trying to be opportunistic. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I just think that it's not the right time to be highlighting stuff like this. The implication being that the Coast Guard helicopter shouldn't have been there, and if it wasn't it wouldn't have crashed. That makes it sound like they were doing something they weren't trained or prepared for, and that's not the case as far as I can tell.

IF it turns out that the Coast Guard is not trained, prepared or competent in this sort of support mission, then absolutely it is a national disgrace and a scandal.

If however, this is just a tactical decision about deployment of resources, based on a long standing way of working, then this is simply a tragic accident in the line of duty.

[magpie seanie]

Yes but why would the Air Corps have been the first option (obviously preferable)?

It's probably not the time for the discussion alright.

[armaghniac]

Apologies. I know you're not trying to be opportunistic. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I just think that it's not the right time to be highlighting stuff like this. The implication being that the Coast Guard helicopter shouldn't have been there, and if it wasn't it wouldn't have crashed. That makes it sound like they were doing something they weren't trained or prepared for, and that's not the case as far as I can tell.

The only implication is that if they hadn't gone they wouldn't be there. As a coastguard helicopter with a very experienced pilot this is what they do.

IF it turns out that the Coast Guard is not trained, prepared or competent in this sort of support mission, then absolutely it is a national disgrace and a scandal.

This provides no evidence for such a contention. At the point of the crash all they had to do was fly from Dublin to Blacksod and refuel.

If however, this is just a tactical decision about deployment of resources, based on a long standing way of working, then this is simply a tragic accident in the line of duty.

The fixed wing aircraft may have had some advantages and the helicopter could have remained on the East Coast in the case of another call.

[AZOffaly]

Apologies. I know you're not trying to be opportunistic. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I just think that it's not the right time to be highlighting stuff like this. The implication being that the Coast Guard helicopter shouldn't have been there, and if it wasn't it wouldn't have crashed. That makes it sound like they were doing something they weren't trained or prepared for, and that's not the case as far as I can tell.

The only implication is that if they hadn't gone they wouldn't be there. As a coastguard helicopter with a very experienced pilot this is what they do.

IF it turns out that the Coast Guard is not trained, prepared or competent in this sort of support mission, then absolutely it is a national disgrace and a scandal.

This provides no evidence for such a contention. At the point of the crash all they had to do was fly from Dublin to Blacksod and refuel.

If however, this is just a tactical decision about deployment of resources, based on a long standing way of working, then this is simply a tragic accident in the line of duty.

The fixed wing aircraft may have had some advantages and the helicopter could have remained on the East Coast in the case of another call.

Exactly my point.. They weren't being asked to do anything, as far as I am aware, that they were untrained, unable, or not expecting to have to do.

[AZOffaly]

Yes but why would the Air Corps have been the first option (obviously preferable)?

It's probably not the time for the discussion alright.

Who knows what the operational process is? I certainly don't. But as far as I am concerned, then if the helicopter was not being asked to do anything it wouldn't expect to have to do, then I don't think the issue of budget cuts (which is a very valid issue) is necessarily a contributing factor in this crash.

It may be that a fixed wing is preferable for this type of observation work, while a rotary is better at getting in and out close to the water for extractions etc, and typically the chopper does the wet work while the fixed wing stays high. But if no fixed wing is available, there's nothing that says a helicopter can't do the same job.

[armaghniac]

Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf

they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.

[manfromdelmonte]

Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf

they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.

Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying

[magpie seanie]

Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf

they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.

Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying

It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.

[Tubberman]

Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf

they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.

Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying

It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.

I don't think you can blame the state for this one Seanie. The state didn't create the navigation system or maintain the database of obstacles.

[armaghniac]

Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf

they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.

Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying

It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.

I don't think you can blame the state for this one Seanie. The state didn't create the navigation system or maintain the database of obstacles.

The Coastguard helicopter service is outsourced to intl operators who do this type of work in many places. You would imagine that as this rock is near their refuelling location that they might have a flight path identified to Blacksod that would have avoided the risk. Mire will come out in time.

[highorlow]

The aircraft was on auto pilot. Reports say that in the back seats one of the crew has a night vision camera in front of him and could see something was not right from this.

He told the pilots to veer right direction. Soon after he issued it again. By the sounds of it they only had 13s to act from when he first spotted this. Makes you wonder why this gadget isn't also in the front along with the pilots?

Awful tradegy.

[trileacman]

Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf

they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.

Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying

It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.

Ffs you'll be blaming them for the amount of rain falling in Longford next.