Westminster Election 12th December 2019

[gallsman]

What's Peston's own reason? What's Laura K's?

And are you really, honestly trying to suggest that the media in the UK is being directed by the Israeli embassy? Surely now, this isn't a windup?

[gallsman]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

[marty34]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

I agree with Seafoid - anybody who speaks up in support of the people of Palestine is automatically branded as anti-semitic.

[gallsman]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

I agree with Seafoid - anybody who speaks up in support of the people of Palestine is automatically branded as anti-semitic.

According to the IHRA Working Definition?

I assume that as you're commenting on statements related to it, you have read it and are familiar with it?

[seafoid]

What's Peston's own reason? What's Laura K's?

And are you really, honestly trying to suggest that the media in the UK is being directed by the Israeli embassy? Surely now, this isn't a windup?

I'm not. I said it had different drivers.
Peston and Kuenssberg are careerists. Johnson or whoever else gives them stories.

[seafoid]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/as-battle-rages-in-uk-labour-party-moshe-machover-expelled-after-asserting-anti-zionism-does-not-equal-anti-semitism/5613171/amp

"As Machover observed, pro-Israel groups are in trouble in Labour and elsewhere.

"They are losing credibility on the arena of what could be called international opinion, but – more importantly – they are losing the Jewish public outside Israel, especially those under 30. There is a clear generational shift in opinion. These people are becoming very critical of Israel and its colonisation project."

Zionism is in trouble, Gallsman. This is where the IHRA definition began.

[gallsman]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/as-battle-rages-in-uk-labour-party-moshe-machover-expelled-after-asserting-anti-zionism-does-not-equal-anti-semitism/5613171/amp

Your statement was not about whether some people equate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. Once again, you said:

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

I repeat this is a lie. The IHRA Working Definition does not reference Palestinian rights, nor make any assertions about anyone who supports them, either implicitly or explicitly. Not once.

[maddog]

That you gov poll is making some serious leaps. The Birmingham mail today is reporting 7 labour held seats will be lost in the area to the Tories. Some of these seats have decent Labour majorities but were leave voting seats. They are making the assumption that leave voters will jump Labour to Tory. I can't see it when it comes to putting the X down and if you believe as i do that a good number of leavers will have changed their minds then i don't see the massive swing to the tories the yougov poll is predicting. We will see. However if you google democratic dashboard and a constinuency name it will give you the run down in each area. Make up your own mind. I could be way out but i think the Tory lead narrative is being pushed by them primarily.

[seafoid]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/as-battle-rages-in-uk-labour-party-moshe-machover-expelled-after-asserting-anti-zionism-does-not-equal-anti-semitism/5613171/amp

Your statement was not about whether some people equate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. Once again, you said:

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

I repeat this is a lie. The IHRA Working Definition does not reference Palestinian rights, nor make any assertions about anyone who supports them, either implicitly or explicitly. Not once.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/as-battle-rages-in-uk-labour-party-moshe-machover-expelled-after-asserting-anti-zionism-does-not-equal-anti-semitism/5613171

"In fact, the examples of anti-semitism provided by the IHRA include several that are clearly designed to include criticism of Israel:

* Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic.

* Applying double standards by requiring of [the state of Israel] a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

* Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavour."

There you go.
Accusing Israel of running Jim Crow is "antisemitic."

Pick another hobby horse because Israel is really struggling. 

[gallsman]

There I go absolutely f**king nothing Absolutely zero of what you've postedhas anything to do with labelling anyone who supports Palestinian rights as anti-Semitic. I don't know if you're deliberately obtuse or just so filled with bigotry that you actually can't see the difference

The examples you've pulled from it are fascinating though, particularly the one about not applying standards to Israel that would not be expected or demanded of any other nation. You have some sort of problem with this, or deem it in some way unreasonable?

[seafoid]

Anyone who supports Palestinian rights is an anti Semite by the IHRA definition.
Corbyn supports Palestinian rights. So do a lot of Brits. They are all anti Semites under the IHRA definition.

This is a lie. A scandalous, boldfaced lie.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/as-battle-rages-in-uk-labour-party-moshe-machover-expelled-after-asserting-anti-zionism-does-not-equal-anti-semitism/5613171

"any discourse that takes as its premise that Israel is not a liberal democracy, but rather a Jewish state, as it declares itself to be, or that it practises apartheid, or that it should be subject to a boycott, appears to fall foul of this definition"

The IHRA definition is a joke
It essentially involves Israel hiding behind the concept of antisemitism. 

[gallsman]

Rather than frantically googling global research.ca articles, why don't you just refer to the IHRA definition and its accompanying examples directly? They're all very easily accessed and, as you've obviously studied them closely, would understand that they take about 30 seconds to read.

All you are able to do is, continuously, repost (incorrect) opinion pieces. You are a liar.

[Kidder81]

Rather than frantically googling global research.ca articles, why don't you just refer to the IHRA definition and its accompanying examples directly? They're all very easily accessed and, as you've obviously studied them closely, would understand that they take about 30 seconds to read.

All you are able to do is, continuously, repost (incorrect) opinion pieces. You are a liar.

And seems to have Magpie Seanie as a willing apprentice

[Kidder81]

I wonder after the IFS branding BOTH Labour and Tory manifesto spending plans as "not credible" does Seafoid still see the IFS part of the neo liberal conspiracy ?

[seafoid]

Rather than frantically googling global research.ca articles, why don't you just refer to the IHRA definition and its accompanying examples directly? They're all very easily accessed and, as you've obviously studied them closely, would understand that they take about 30 seconds to read.

All you are able to do is, continuously, repost (incorrect) opinion pieces. You are a liar.

You are a drama queen.

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf
Adopt the following non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism:

"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."

That definition wouldn't stand up in court. The vagueness is the point.


Accusing Israel of apartheid could qualify as "hatred towards Jews" or towards "Jewish community institutions"
Calling for a Palestinian State and the removal of settlers could be classed as " a certain perception of Jews".

Not forgetting :

"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.  Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation"

This is the basis upon which they declare Corbyn anti-Semitic.

For f**k's sake.
Israel always has to suppress international law. Always.