Are Dublin the best team ever ?

[Dont Matter]

Yes we know we've been bought success but we don't care.

That's basically what you're saying.

[AZOffaly]

My take on this is that Dublin have done nothing wrong at all. They have been given a great opportunity and have grasped it with both hands and have both made serious inroads in terms of playing population, and have raised their standards through excellent coaching.

That the 1.3 or 1.4 million per annum has helped in this area would appear to be a no brainer. Of course it helps. If not, why give the money in the first place?

I'm loathe to agree with Don't Matter's hyperbole, but I do find myself agreeing with some of the things he said. This massive central council investment in Dublin has worked, and the results are clear. But are we going to keep pumping 1.4 million p.a. ad infinitum? If that's the case, the gap between Dublin and the rest is just going to widen, unless even more money can be found and invested in the other counties.

I'm not sure what the correct approach here is, and I wouldn't like to 'punish' dublin for being excellent and for using their money brilliantly, but you have to help other counties get to that standard, or at least reduce the funding Dublin get for Games Development now that they've had over 10 years of it.

People born in Dublin are not innately better than players anywhere else. The last 100 years have taught us that. Their population and pick is big, but not hugely bigger than some other big counties when you take into account the other competing sports. But making a 'project' of an already strong county, and helping them set up a seriously well run machine while at the same time paying scant regard to other counties Games Development, is a bit mad from a 'competition' perspective.

I don't begrudge Dublin the commercial deals from AIG etc. They get that because they are the 'dubs'. That's always been part of the magic of Dublin. But I do have an issue with the Games Development funding at the moment.

[Dont Matter]

It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.

Talking nonsense again. Strategic development officers, regional development officers, hurling development officers etc would cost the same amount in any county. It's just that only one county has the money to pay them and they get the money for that off all of us. How can anyone justify this? Ordinary citizens money is being pumped into one county alone while every other county is living off scraps. That's why no other county would be able to come close to replicating what Dubl$n do at lower levels. It IS as simple as that. Money buys success.

[Lar Naparka]

there isn't a team in Leinster capable of beating them outside Croker anyway so unless you start playing all Ireland semi finals and finals in new bridge your point is no more than a cold water pouring exercise, why don't you just come out and say 'I hate the dubs'

Don't be so immature, there is an issue here and if you cannot come out with a response more useful than implying that those who discuss the issues "hate the Dubs", then you are only confirming the belief that Dubs are trying to distract attention from the issue.

The problems are the competition structures. The provincial championships have to go.

But when Kerry were hockeying teams in Munster for years nobody cared.

Kilkenny hurlers are in the senior, minor , intermediate finals this year. Should they be split in half ?

They have won 5 out of the last 7 all Ireland titles too

What's the difference?

Quite a bit, I would say.

The difference in Kilkenny's case is that the county has only 12 senior and 12 intermediate hurling clubs.  At least such was the case a few years ago when I was talking to a CB member.   
When you compare Kerry to Cork in Munster, you'll find that Cork has far more playing members than Kerry yet Kerry have more than twice the number of Munster titles that Cork have. (76 to 37)
I would argue that neither county should be penalised for excellence. Cork, Tipp, Galway and others  have as many if not more players than Kilkenny and the list of football counties whose resources are greater than Kerry's is a long one.
You can put their success down to sound internal structures or tradition or whatever you think is relevant but the crucial point is that neither county has anything that others can't aspire to.
In Dublin's case, things aren't quite so clear-cut.
While the population of Dublin is increasing rapidly, rural depopulation is a serious issue in many rural counties.
Right now, the Dubs' minors are rated favourites by most pundits for the Tom Markham Cup, the U21s are AI champions and the seniors are going for 3 out of 4.
If this is a portent of things to come, nobody will benefit and that includes Dublin itself.

Lar let's quit the bullshit. Mayo are the clear favourites for the Minor title as you well know. that's the first point. We're at best joint second and in all reality 3rd.

Population increase means little in regions like Tallaght and Ballyfermot ( populations bigger then  Limerick) where the GAA penetration is the equivalent of rugby in Ballymun. Thats' the second point. There are regions in Dublin where GAA has had to largely admit defeat because soccer is so ingrained in the district.

On Kilkenny they are given a free pass to promote one game and not even attempt to promote the other. Its a massive advantage for them. Every kid in Kilkenny plays hurling. Maybe one in ten in Dublin does. And in some areas its more like one in 25.
However its an example of where proper coaching from a young age without a massive chequebook shows some real results.

The GAA was in a hard place 10 years ago- Dublin came with a plan to boost the GAA penetration in the city. At the time Ireland were in the 2002 WC and BOD had just arrived. What were they supposed to do allow the capital city to become a GAA wasteground to suit the agendas

Dunno where you are getting your odds from, Indy, but it sure ain't the bookies!
Captain Obvious has given you the bookies' odds and they don't agree with you, to put it mildly.
You are dead right that large parts of the city have no interest in Gaelic games but building up super clubs or elite county teams isn't going to change that fact.
Down around Pullawaddy and Crucksbullaghadawn the talk is about "wastegrounds" also but it's not a lack of interest in Gaelic games that is the problem; it's the lack of people in the town or locality.
Right along the western seaboard and indeed many places further inland, rural depopulation isn't just a fancy phrase, it's a fact of life. Clubs are going out of existence or amalgamating with neighbouring ones in a desperate effort to keep going.
So names like Doora/Barefield or Shrule/Glencorrib tell their own tale. The flight from the land isn't confined to rural areas either; what about Salthill/Knocknacarra in Galway city?
Make no mistake about it, the future viability of the GAA is under threat in more areas than the Pale.
Can't agree with you about Kilkenny either. Foe one thing, soccer is quite strong in that county and hurling doesn't get al it's own way. What about Kerry? Hurling is the no. 1 game in North Kerry and yet in terms of resources and playing numbers, The Kingdom punches well above its weight.
Meantime, the GHAA as a national body is a loser as the population of Dublin increases by leaps and bounds while just about all rural areas show a worrying decline. Something has to be done to maintain a semblance of a level playing field for all.
The obvious answer is to divide Dublin in four as the county has been quartered already for local government affairs. The reasons for doing so are many and most are self-obvious so I don't propose going into detail here but for the sake of the GAA's future, some pragmatic actions are required.

[blewuporstuffed]

My take on this is that Dublin have done nothing wrong at all. They have been given a great opportunity and have grasped it with both hands and have both made serious inroads in terms of playing population, and have raised their standards through excellent coaching.

That the 1.3 or 1.4 million per annum has helped in this area would appear to be a no brainer. Of course it helps. If not, why give the money in the first place?

I'm loathe to agree with Don't Matter's hyperbole, but I do find myself agreeing with some of the things he said. This massive central council investment in Dublin has worked, and the results are clear. But are we going to keep pumping 1.4 million p.a. ad infinitum? If that's the case, the gap between Dublin and the rest is just going to widen, unless even more money can be found and invested in the other counties.

I'm not sure what the correct approach here is, and I wouldn't like to 'punish' dublin for being excellent and for using their money brilliantly, but you have to help other counties get to that standard, or at least reduce the funding Dublin get for Games Development now that they've had over 10 years of it.

People born in Dublin are not innately better than players anywhere else. The last 100 years have taught us that. Their population and pick is big, but not hugely bigger than some other big counties when you take into account the other competing sports. But making a 'project' of an already strong county, and helping them set up a seriously well run machine while at the same time paying scant regard to other counties Games Development, is a bit mad from a 'competition' perspective.

I don't begrudge Dublin the commercial deals from AIG etc. They get that because they are the 'dubs'. That's always been part of the magic of Dublin. But I do have an issue with the Games Development funding at the moment.

good post, I would agree with all of that.
Re: the home games thing, that is something that definitely needs looked at and without doubt is an advantage to Dublin.

[Dont Matter]

A very good article there posted by the lily.

Biffo, the Dubs feel entitled to this money. If there's any talk of withdrawing the funds you'll here great stink coming out of them. They go on about saying the money isn't what has brought success but wait for the uproar when someone even suggests to take it away.

The commercial deals have increased hugely due to the success of their senior teams, their senior teams have gained success due to the money provided by every citizen in Ireland. Basically aig wouldn't have come in without our money.

The damage is done, the Dubs took the money and deep down they knew this day would come. They may enjoy their success now before the split takes place, the split is the only option. The only alternative to that is to let one county dominate for years, it would kill Gaelic Games.

[Rossfan]

Time the GAA at Central level addressed the lack of penetration of Gaelic games in Belfast City ( 115,000 Nationalist population), Derry City ( 60,000 ? Nat), Galway City for a start.
Dublin already has enough natural advantages e.g at least 130,000 males between 18 and 32 compared to 5,000 in Roscommon/Monaghan,Cavan etc without getting special help as well. Also their players have short trips to training rather than long tiresome journeys to and from getting to bed at maybe 2 a.m. Not to mention all their games at home and GAA HQ being basically another arm of their organisation.
GAA HQ needs to look at Leinster too where the Senior Inter County Championship is now meaningless and young lads are turning to rugby and soccer in droves. Kildare and Meath who have big populations and used to have massive followings now have less supporters than the likes of Cavan,Monaghan Ros etc. Then there's Wicklow....... [
Great that the numbers playing Gaelic games are getting bigger in Dublin and long may it do so  but it's time for some radical thinking ahead ( going forward Godhelpus  ) now that there's a monster been created.
Make Dublin a Province , 4 Counties, Give each Province a Games development budget with special emphasis on improving Gaelic games penetration in the weaker areas and see how she goes.

[rosnarun]

i think 5 in a Row is the Gold standard by which you get to casll yourselfves the greatest.
though Like the rush for  Pope John Paul II im not sure patience in in plentyful enough supply to wait untill 2017 before they are cononised

[rosnarun]

Time the GAA at Central level addressed the lack of penetration of Gaelic games in Belfast City ( 115,000 Nationalist population), Derry City ( 60,000 ? Nat), Galway City for a start.
Dublin already has enough natural advantages e.g at least 130,000 males between 18 and 32 compared to 5,000 in Roscommon/Monaghan,Cavan etc without getting special help as well. Also their players have short trips to training rather than long tiresome journeys to and from getting to bed at maybe 2 a.m. Not to mention all their games at home and GAA HQ being basically another arm of their organisation.
GAA HQ needs to look at Leinster too where the Senior Inter County Championship is now meaningless and young lads are turning to rugby and soccer in droves. Kildare and Meath who have big populations and used to have massive followings now have less supporters than the likes of Cavan,Monaghan Ros etc. Then there's Wicklow....... [
Great that the numbers playing Gaelic games are getting bigger in Dublin and long may it do so  but it's time for some radical thinking ahead ( going forward Godhelpus  ) now that there's a monster been created.
Make Dublin a Province , 4 Counties, Give each Province a Games development budget with special emphasis on improving Gaelic games penetration in the weaker areas and see how she goes.

so would Mayo and kerry be entiltiled to extra help as they both Face the same disadvantages as most of the counties mentioned?

[Rossfan]

Mayowestros should be abolished.
I was specifically addressing Leinster where 3 Counties with massive populations are turning/have turned into GAA wastelands.
I'm sure there are areas of Mayo and Kerry where Gaelic games are not strong and could do with aid.
As for journeys to/from training  Aiden O' Shea says going home to work in Mayo improved his football no end.

[AZOffaly]

I don't agree with splitting Dublin up. I think we'll just have to live with this serious team for a fair few years. You'll always have a challenger to them, I mean they've only won one in a row at the moment, and Kerry, Donegal and Mayo will all fancy a rattle at this machine.

But if Dublin had to make the same decisions with finance that other counties have, then it might level the playing field at the underage levels and in terms of supply. Either that, or get a national games development structure in place with a clear pathway to PROPER funding for all other counties. Dublin will always only be able to play 15 players, and tog out 26 or 30. If the other counties have enough paid coaches, and finances for their development squads without scrimping and scraping because they don't have the money, then they too could start having production lines of talent.

I've had to fight for €400 to send a bus to an away game. I've had to refuse challenge match requests. And that's simply down to us not having the money for it. The money might be spent on other things, and the rights and wrongs of that are a moot point, but it doesn't seem to me that the Dubs have to make decisions like that.

[Zulu]

It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.

Talking nonsense again. Strategic development officers, regional development officers, hurling development officers etc would cost the same amount in any county. It's just that only one county has the money to pay them and they get the money for that off all of us. How can anyone justify this? Ordinary citizens money is being pumped into one county alone while every other county is living off scraps. That's why no other county would be able to come close to replicating what Dubl$n do at lower levels. It IS as simple as that. Money buys success.

Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.

By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.

[joemamas]

Because you can't do it. What do you propose, that Dublin never develop GAA black spots, that they don't coach players to kick off both feet so they don't get too good? We have to try and develop all counties but certain counties will always be stronger due to their size. Dublin are doing everything right so I can't understand why people seem to want to punish them.

What you continue to ignore is money, I don't know why but you always avoid it. Dubl$n pay people big money to do everything right, they have almost unlimited resources to do so. No other county comes within 100 miles of the finance available to Dubl$n. That's why your calls for other counties to try and catch them is nonsense, the money isn't there for them to do that. It's as simple as that.

It isn't as simple as that. Dublin, due to its size, needs more money than Laois to just do the same things. There is no reason why many counties can't replicate a lot of what Dublin do at lower levels at least and that will go a long way towards producing better players at senior level.

Zulu,

Most of the dub supporters on here seem like sound skins, but I heard something over the weekend that may challenge above point.
When Dublin finish training they are provided with packed meals for next two day until they are back again at training.
I was in croke park on sat, an all Ireland q final was over after 25 mins, not dublins fault, but the gaa surely cannot ignore the elephant in the room for much longer.
Either provide other counties with similar coaching resources at underage for next 10 years, or else a lot of people could end up staying at home from games.
How difficult will it be for managers of the non top eight teams to get their players out training in November and to get the financing to prepare same.

[Dont Matter]

Utter nonsense. Cork have 5 GDA's the last I heard (covering both football and hurling), yet have millions to pump into P Ui C. They might have more GDA's now but it certainly isn't enough to properly cater for Cork and the county board and some of their clubs have the money to address that if they wanted to. Other counties can afford and can apply for funding to get more GDA's if they want and put a plan in place to do so.

By the way, if Dublin can now afford to take on more of the financial burden and reduce Central council funding then of course they should do that. My view has always been that the GAA should help all counties maximise their potential but you can't do that by giving everyone the same amount. You target certain counties for particular attention and once they get to where Dublin is you move on. Most counties wouldn't need the same level of funding Dublin get to maximise their potential because they don't have to reach as big a population.

We're not talking about facilities, Cork are getting assistance for Páirc Uí Chaoimh just as Dubl$n got assistance for their home stadium Croke Park. Where will all the other counties get the money for these games development officers? How will they pay all the coaches? Does the GAA have money to cover everyone? Will ordinary citizens be happy to pay for these plans? The money isn't there, the GAA invest in Dubl$n because they get a return on the investment. It's a business move.

Your suggestion in the second paragraph is crazy. You want to improve certain counties but leave the rest behind, what are they meant to do? Just sit and watch other counties get special funding and see Gaelic Games destroyed in their county. Joke.

[Dinny Breen]

Mayowestros should be abolished.
I was specifically addressing Leinster where 3 Counties with massive populations are turning/have turned into GAA wastelands.
I'm sure there are areas of Mayo and Kerry where Gaelic games are not strong and could do with aid.
As for journeys to/from training  Aiden O' Shea says going home to work in Mayo improved his football no end.

I can safely say club football and hurling has never been stronger in terms of quality in Kildare, however there is now an apathy towards the County team, Dublin's domination of Leinster is a factor accelerated by the SJ fiasco and the McGeeney removal as County manager both related to Kildare's  blind desire to compete with Dublin. Dublin don't care about Leinster despite the embarrassing lip service they sometimes pay but why should they much like Kerry their barometer of success is AIs and a weak Leinster only improves that opportunity of success.

I think the penny has finally dropped this isn't Dublin's problem they didn't create this monster the GAA did.

As for commercial opportunities if you had  a few sponsors sponsoring every county jersey surely that would be more lucrative to the GAA from which they could start funding all teams equally than 32 separate deals which only benefits the richer counties. The GAA is suppose to have socialist ideals does it not?