Black and Tans Commemoration

[Shamrock Shore]

The backlash has started but really what did Fine Gael expect? Leaving aside the Brexit process apart (and that was for purely selfish economic reasons) they have always been the party who gave off a feeling of subservience to British rule. Charlie Flanagan being the prime exponent of it but only one of several within that party.

Flanagan is a balaclava wearing volunteer when compared to John Bruton and his antics when Charles Windsor came over here in, what, 1995 or so.

[Rossfan]

Did FG stop for a moment and think that if the RIC had been successful in 1919-21 there wouldn't have been an Irish Free State or subsequent Independent Irish State?
Leo would be First Minister of a Region of the "UK" and we'd now be leaving the EU.
PS Bruton was a disgrace in 1995

[SkillfulBill]

Did FG stop for a moment and think that if the RIC had been successful in 1919-21 there wouldn't have been an Irish Free State or subsequent Independent Irish State?
Leo would be First Minister of a Region of the "UK" and we'd now be leaving the EU.
PS Bruton was a disgrace in 1995

Pure dung.  RIC was supplemented by the Black and Tans because the British Government could not rely on a the RIC to carry out their will in Ireland.The reason for this is that they were representative of the Irish population of the time that voted 70% for the newly formed Sinn Fein of 1918. Don't confuse 2020 for 100 years ago.

[Itchy]

A major own goal by leo the clown. Who wanted this, where was the demand for this, why not commemorate 100s of other way more worthy people out there. Just incredible stupidity by FG. The RIC were part of an occupying force which oppressed the irish people and I dont care what religion they were. They enforced eviction of our poorest, they supported and worked with Tans and auxilleraries. They tortured and maimed. f**k their commeration in this ridiculous attempt at revisionism.

[general_lee]

If in a United Ireland, Unionists wanted the  government to honour RUC men who lost their lives in the Troubles, or indeed the precursor to the RUC, the RIC - would it be okay to commemorate RIC then. SF do tell them they have nothing to fear in a United Ireland, all traditions, both sides of history welcome.

They are already honoured. There are statues and monuments to the RUC and UDR. There are British military memorials everywhere. Belfast city hall is like a British army museum. Various Councils see fit piss away hundreds of thousands of pounds on military circle jerks and trips to Flanders. What makes anyone think that in a united ireland this would change?

[SkillfulBill]

A major own goal by leo the clown. Who wanted this, where was the demand for this, why not commemorate 100s of other way more worthy people out there. Just incredible stupidity by FG. The RIC were part of an occupying force which oppressed the irish people and I dont care what religion they were. They enforced eviction of our poorest, they supported and worked with Tans and auxilleraries. They tortured and maimed. f**k their commeration in this ridiculous attempt at revisionism.

Nonsense The Civic Guard was formed in 1923 which was the fore runner of The Garda Siochana where formed from the Republican Irish Police and the RIC. of which the majority where former members of the RIC. So the police force of the newly formed state was actually predominantly former members of the RIC. The RIC of 1900 - 1922 was a representative force made up of Royalists Landed gentry Farming class farm labourers city slum dwellers protestant catholic Republican and unionist. IE reflective of Irish society of 1900 - 1923. Revisionist of 2020 have no right to impose 2020 hindsight or propaganda on the motivation of men from 100 years ago without truly reflecting the political or society norms of the time. Any other approach is blind sided nonsense which is fairly blinkered in its views.

[SkillfulBill]

If in a United Ireland, Unionists wanted the  government to honour RUC men who lost their lives in the Troubles, or indeed the precursor to the RUC, the RIC - would it be okay to commemorate RIC then. SF do tell them they have nothing to fear in a United Ireland, all traditions, both sides of history welcome.

They are already honoured. There are statues and monuments to the RUC and UDR. There are British military memorials everywhere. Belfast city hall is like a British army museum. Various Councils see fit piss away hundreds of thousands of pounds on military circle jerks and trips to Flanders. What makes anyone think that in a united ireland this would change?

RUC and UDR have no connection to RIC the are separated by up on 60 years . Incidentally a very significant number of UDR men where actually Irish Catholics when they where first formed in the 1970s. There are one or two republican families about with a dirty little secret in the family history as the initial months of the formation of the UDR many Republicans joined up in a bid to preventing it becoming another B Specials outfit.

[general_lee]

Eh the RIC were immediate predecessors of the RUC, maybe worth researching their behaviour in Belfast in the 1920s just before they became the RUC

[SkillfulBill]

Eh the RIC were immediate predecessors of the RUC, maybe worth researching their behaviour in Belfast in the 1920s just before they became the RUC

At least we are getting some where as I have said the RIC was reflective of Irish Society of it's time and in the 6 counties the RIC force was a predominantly sectarian Orange force  particularly in Belfast and was an immediate for runner to the RUC. But again the six counties of the time represented 30%of Irish society of the time and the majority of the RIC represented Irish society of 1918. Which had by this time become republican between 1916 - 18. Do not forget the volunteers of 1916 where spat at by the population of Dublin after they left the GPO. This was because many of the poor of Dublin had sons fighting in France.Maybe you need to read Donal McAnallens book on the Forgotten History of the GAA.

[oneflewoverthecuckoonest]

the RIC were regarded as British Quislings.

the members of the RIC can be viewed through rose tinted lenses as mere civic police, the truth is from the mid 19th century to 1922, the Irishmen who joined the force, were deemed as traitors to the local community because they choose to better themselves by taking the coin from an occupying force rather than resisting like most of the natives. They were then on the wrong side of history when independence was achieved(with no help from them) and when the RIC was disbanded, for years after former RIC men were detested and for their families there was an element of shame attached to the RIC assocaiation.

now we have the west brit leaning element within FG trying to erase that "family shame" with this lamentable commemoration lark. another nail in the coffin of the outgoing fg administration, certain to rise the blood of even mild nationalists come election time, but par for the course now, as fgare   globo/multiculturalist cheerleaders, and the "forgive all" fits with that narrative.

With a future vote on the six counties re-uniting likely to happen inside 10/20 years, a key subset of voters in that referendum would be the comfortable castle catholics in the north.  In their hearts they want a united Ireland, but I wonder if just like the RIC, will they choose to vote with their pockets especially if they are earning their corn working for the British government in some capacity or other.

In essence, within war zones, as in the fight for Irish independence, they will be casualties and nasty conflict as part of the territory. One of the rawest aspects of war  is when some of what are regarded as "your own"  fight against you for the other side. The RIC, well the catholic members of it, were Irish natives happy to take the side of the Brits against the locals. Anyone sympathising with the RIC should be ashamed to call themselves Irish.

[armaghniac]

There is a widespread view that Trump has lost the plot re Iran.
I think Varadkar has lost  the plot, he is standing in a press conference with Simon Harris, not talking about the record waiting lists in A&E but about this event, which is being boycotted by Dublin and Cork councils.

[NetNitrate]

Total Irish killed in War of Independence - 550
Total children dumped in mass grave in Tuam - 800
Total other mass graves -?
Total Irish women incarcerated in Magdalene Launderies - 300,000
Total Irish children born out of wedlock sold by nuns 60,000
Total politicians from Sinn Fein, Fianna Fail and City Councils that have publicly boycotted the church - ?

[MoChara]

It seems peculiarly timed, with rising talk of a United Ireland then this to scare soft Unionism and provide ammunition for shithead loyalism?

At the same time, why is it always considered by some in Ireland that in the pursuit of political maturity that we are expected to move closer and closer to the Brits weren't that bad, sure they got even got our own people to subjugate us?

Of course let the past be the past but don't drag it up and insult our forebearers for wanting and fighting for our freedom. The south must be the only country in the world that feels it has to apologise for its own existence.

[seafoid]

The RDS gets off lightly.

[SkillfulBill]

the RIC were regarded as British Quislings.

the members of the RIC can be viewed through rose tinted lenses as mere civic police, the truth is from the mid 19th century to 1922, the Irishmen who joined the force, were deemed as traitors to the local community because they choose to better themselves by taking the coin from an occupying force rather than resisting like most of the natives. They were then on the wrong side of history when independence was achieved(with no help from them) and when the RIC was disbanded, for years after former RIC men were detested and for their families there was an element of shame attached to the RIC assocaiation.

now we have the west brit leaning element within FG trying to erase that "family shame" with this lamentable commemoration lark. another nail in the coffin of the outgoing fg administration, certain to rise the blood of even mild nationalists come election time, but par for the course now, as fgare   globo/multiculturalist cheerleaders, and the "forgive all" fits with that narrative.

With a future vote on the six counties re-uniting likely to happen inside 10/20 years, a key subset of voters in that referendum would be the comfortable castle catholics in the north.  In their hearts they want a united Ireland, but I wonder if just like the RIC, will they choose to vote with their pockets especially if they are earning their corn working for the British government in some capacity or other.

In essence, within war zones, as in the fight for Irish independence, they will be casualties and nasty conflict as part of the territory. One of the rawest aspects of war  is when some of what are regarded as "your own"  fight against you for the other side. The RIC, well the catholic members of it, were Irish natives happy to take the side of the Brits against the locals. Anyone sympathising with the RIC should be ashamed to call themselves Irish.

With attitudes towards history such as this you may kiss bye bye to any prospects of United Irelsnd for the next 100 years. The Castke Catholics represent a sizable vote in the North and an even greater vote in the South. If you try to understand history the the prisim of the past you will never build a future  The invention of mass republicanism prevailing pre 1916 does not stand up to any historical inspection. These views on RIC membership was not representative of the time and is invented History.