Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

Captain Obvious

#780
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Soccer Cups are only secondary competitions.
Their Leagues are the Championships.


They have the European cup which is far from a secondary competition where the best team in Europe doesn't always win that cup and remains open for underdogs to produce giant killing act. It starts off with a group stage (a lot more sensible than a group stage for the final 8 ) and becomes knock out for the last 16. The leagues are their tiered system and are important with a world wide interest.

The GAA have a league which is their best format and tiered system already in place and HQ choose not to improve its importance and want to bring in a 2nd tiered format for its cup competition (the championship) beggars belief!

lenny

Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 04, 2019, 07:03:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Soccer Cups are only secondary competitions.
Their Leagues are the Championships.


They have the European cup which is far from a secondary competition where the best team in Europe doesn't always win that cup and remains open for underdogs to produce giant killing act. It starts off with a group stage (a lot more sensible than a group stage for the final 8 ) and becomes knock out for the last 16. The leagues are their tiered system and are important with a world wide interest.

The GAA have a league which is their best format and tiered system already in place and HQ choose not to improve its importance and want to bring in a 2nd tiered format for its cup competition (the championship) beggars belief!

As far as I'm aware only the top teams get into the european cup. Most teams aren't allowed to play in it.

Captain Obvious

Quote from: lenny on June 04, 2019, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 04, 2019, 07:03:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Soccer Cups are only secondary competitions.
Their Leagues are the Championships.


They have the European cup which is far from a secondary competition where the best team in Europe doesn't always win that cup and remains open for underdogs to produce giant killing act. It starts off with a group stage (a lot more sensible than a group stage for the final 8 ) and becomes knock out for the last 16. The leagues are their tiered system and are important with a world wide interest.

The GAA have a league which is their best format and tiered system already in place and HQ choose not to improve its importance and want to bring in a 2nd tiered format for its cup competition (the championship) beggars belief!

As far as I'm aware only the top teams get into the european cup. Most teams aren't allowed to play in it.

The old European cup had league winners only taking part. Nowadays you can have a teams struggling in their own domestic league and still reaching the latter stages of that cup competition.

Rossfan

You'll find that Euro Soccer thingy is now called "Champions League".
 
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Captain Obvious

Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2019, 08:33:27 PM
You'll find that Euro Soccer thingy is now called "Champions League".


Don't let the catchy name fool you, group stages and knock out games from the last 16 stage is not a league. You will also find that three of the last four "Champions league" winners did not win their own domestic league the previous season. In other words champions of a cup competition.

lenny

Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 04, 2019, 07:46:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 04, 2019, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 04, 2019, 07:03:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Soccer Cups are only secondary competitions.
Their Leagues are the Championships.


They have the European cup which is far from a secondary competition where the best team in Europe doesn't always win that cup and remains open for underdogs to produce giant killing act. It starts off with a group stage (a lot more sensible than a group stage for the final 8 ) and becomes knock out for the last 16. The leagues are their tiered system and are important with a world wide interest.

The GAA have a league which is their best format and tiered system already in place and HQ choose not to improve its importance and want to bring in a 2nd tiered format for its cup competition (the championship) beggars belief!

As far as I'm aware only the top teams get into the european cup. Most teams aren't allowed to play in it.

The old European cup had league winners only taking part. Nowadays you can have a teams struggling in their own domestic league and still reaching the latter stages of that cup competition.

So are you saying that we should have qualifying for the championship from league placing like in the champions league? Interesting viewpoint.

Keyser soze

Have any of you people ever actually played Gaelic football? Because it appears quite a lot of you have not a clue about the difference in league and Championship football. Championship is on a completely different level to league football because it is a knockout competition, do or die, give everything on the day.

Any one who has ever been on a training pitch the week before a championship, or in the changing rooms before the game let alone on the pitch during a game could easily explain the difference in league and championship. Making the championship like a league takes away the very thing that makes it special and if you have ever experienced that white heat of a championship match, even just at club level, you will understand exactly what i am talking about.

It is clear most of the people on here spouting have never been in that position and therefore have not a clue what they are talking about, regurgitating some crap they have heard on TSG or seen on Twitter. 

Rossfan

If I could dare speak following that rant.....
Most Counties have group stages in their Club Championships.

And on the subject of the thread the proposals on the table provide for  "Tier 2" to be determined by League placings.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

trailer

Quote from: Keyser soze on June 05, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
Have any of you people ever actually played Gaelic football? Because it appears quite a lot of you have not a clue about the difference in league and Championship football. Championship is on a completely different level to league football because it is a knockout competition, do or die, give everything on the day.

Any one who has ever been on a training pitch the week before a championship, or in the changing rooms before the game let alone on the pitch during a game could easily explain the difference in league and championship. Making the championship like a league takes away the very thing that makes it special and if you have ever experienced that white heat of a championship match, even just at club level, you will understand exactly what i am talking about.

It is clear most of the people on here spouting have never been in that position and therefore have not a clue what they are talking about, regurgitating some crap they have heard on TSG or seen on Twitter.

You need to continue to take you medication. Even missing one day can result in outburst like this.

BennyCake

Keyser has a point. Championship is all about knockout. It has been diluted by the qualifiers and now the super 8.

Knock out football is what it's all about. But there's money to be made so it's going to be super 8 and champions league style groups from now on.

Rossfan

Most Counties have group stages in their County Championships.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

The Boy Wonder

Quote from: BennyCake on June 05, 2019, 11:55:03 AM
Keyser has a point. Championship is all about knockout. It has been diluted by the qualifiers and now the super 8.


I would agree but lets call it the Sam Maguire Cup - a knockout competition with an open draw for all 32 teams.

Let the League be renamed The Championship by all means and have Divisions (as presently), Tiers or Senior/Junior/Intermediate.
Play the League and Cup concurrently in same season strating in April.
Re-format the League as required, e.g. a Senior/Junior/Intermediate divisions with promotion and relegation.
The League will overtake the Sam Maguire Cup in importance but so be it - the Sam Maguire Cup will always retain a certain aura.

Provincials can be played pre-season (Jan-Mar) replacing McKenna, O'Byrne, FBD etc.

five points

#792
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on June 05, 2019, 12:34:59 PM

Provincials can be played pre-season (Jan-Mar) replacing McKenna, O'Byrne, FBD etc.

Then they become the McKenna, O'Byrne, FBD etc.  So you end up scrapping competitions that teams want to win and supporters want to follow and replacing them with glorified challenge matches.

The Boy Wonder

We're all fond of the provincials and they can still be worthwhile competitions in the pre-season.

Provincials shouldn't be a route to Sam Maguire – unfair advantage to smaller provinces.
Qualifiers shouldn't be a route to Sam Maguire – they are an advantage to stronger counties.
Super 8s shouldn't be a route to Sam Maguire – for both reasons above.

An open draw knockout is the fairest for the Sam Maguire Cup – keep the divisions/tiers for the league and play the League and Sam Maguire Cup concurrently.

I would agree with posters who say that the Super 8s were introduced for commercial purposes more so than for the promotion of the game or the interests of players and supporters. The lustre is wearing off the hurling round-robins and the same will happen to the Super 8s. 

In all probability the same 5/6 counties will qualify for Super 8s year on year with 2/3 interlopers.
Attendances will fall off at a lot of these games – expensive and repetitive for supporters & neutrals.

general_lee

We could maybe just focus on targeting "weaker" counties for increased financing, underage coaching, infrastructure etc rather than just chopping and changing and deluding ourselves into thinking this will make everything rosey. How is a perennial division 4 team ever going to get better if the best they can come up against is a division 4 team in some Mickey Mouse Tommy Murphy mkII?