Should the gaa allow the Liam Miller testimonial in Pairc hi Caoimh - poll

Started by sligoman2, July 24, 2018, 12:59:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Should the gaa allow the Liam Millar testimonial to be played in PUC

Yes
126 (70.4%)
No
37 (20.7%)
Not sure
16 (8.9%)

Total Members Voted: 179

Voting closed: July 31, 2018, 12:59:52 PM

smelmoth

I'm firmly in favour of this game being played in PUC.

I see a lot of points being raised and those that raise them being accused of being GAA bashers and responses that accuse third parties of being GAA bashers. But very little actual responses to the points being raised. Is the GAA bashing accusation just a red herring?

trailer

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 25, 2018, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2018, 06:50:21 PM
How is Lansdowne Road multi sport when the playing area isn't big enough for Gaelic games? (Like the ' free" Tallaght Stadium).
It was built for soccer and rugby only.
thats multi sport by definition.

Your definition of multi sport is including a specific sport. Thats not how the world works

Grand, all GAA stadia are multi sport then, Hurling & Football.

Jinxy

This is why I said Duff's comments were unhelpful.
It wasn't what he said so much as the aggressive tone he used.
Plenty of people within and outside the GAA 'family' have articulated the view that the hierarchy needs to get with the times over the last week.
There was a level of vitriol from Duff, that echoed a lot of the 'grab all association' guff on social media, and that really got peoples backs up.
The fact that he's affiliated with Shamrock Rovers, whose fan base seem to be virulently anti-GAA, doesn't help with the perception that this was an opportunity to stick the knife in, safe in the knowledge that popular opinion would be behind him.
It's not hypocritical to take issue with that while agreeing that the game should be in PUC and acknowledging that HQ have dropped the ball AGAIN.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Rossfan

Quote from: trailer on July 25, 2018, 08:22:20 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 25, 2018, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2018, 06:50:21 PM
How is Lansdowne Road multi sport when the playing area isn't big enough for Gaelic games? (Like the ' free" Tallaght Stadium).
It was built for soccer and rugby only.
thats multi sport by definition.

Your definition of multi sport is including a specific sport. Thats not how the world works

Grand, all GAA stadia are multi sport then, Hurling & Football.
Don't forget the Camógs and Ladies Peil.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

giveballaghback

Jaysus Monaghan would love to play in Tallagh stadium, Rory Beggan would point all his kickouts.

sid waddell

Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2018, 06:58:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 25, 2018, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2018, 11:42:27 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 25, 2018, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2018, 10:40:04 AM
I don't think Melbourne or Sydney are relevant to the GAA. Sport in Ireland has been politicised for over 100 years and relations between the GAA and soccer/rugby have always had a bit of needle even after Croke Park was open to soccer and rugby. You can see it now on twitter.

Irish soccer has always had a parasitical side. Feeding off England. Never developing its infrastructure.  Also very short sighted. Selling Glenmalure park.
And extremely complacent.
It's always soccer asking.

The 3 organisations are like siblings.The GAA is the oldest and has always paid his way. The IRFU married a foreigner and has concussion . The FAI is the youngest, was always spoilt, and never paid for anything. She thinks the GAA should provide for her.
It's a lot easier to "pay your way" when you've never had to pay your players.

Association football in 26 county Ireland has never developed a strong domestic game because i) it had and has English football on its doorstep and ii) the whole official culture of the Irish Free State was against it, including the GAA's ban. Before 1922, the game was controlled from Belfast.

The League of Ireland is like a corner shop trying to survive with a Tesco superstore 50 yards down the road from it.

If anything, English football has acted as a parasite on Irish football, taking all its best players and the vast majority of Irish public interest in the game.

A lot of your points relate to structural issues within soccer. Most small countries say population less than 15m struggle with their domestic leagues because the best players are hoovered up to play with Bayern, Juve, Real or whoever. Soccer is a money game and money controls what happens. Even the Dutch League has problems. Reginal teams do not have the money to buy the players that might make make their games interesting. The top 10 European clubs spent an average of Euro 250m on transfers last season. the top Swiss team spent EUR 7m .  The 5th wealthiest Swiss team spent EUR 1m. And Swiss soccer is relatively well managed.

A lot of soccer players are overpaid as well.
Maybe it would be better to put the money into infrastructure.
The corner shop could be expanded and start offering organic products that Tesco don't sell.
Management in the FAI has been substandard for a number of decades.
There aren't many association football players in Ireland who are overpaid. Some aren't even paid at all. Look at Bray Wanderers.

As I said, when you don't have to pay players, and have a lot bigger attendances, as is the case in the GAA, it's a lot easier to invest in infrastructure.

Even the modest improvements which have taken place in Irish association football in recent times in that regard, such as the new Lansdowne Road, Turner's Cross, Tallaght and Terryland Park, have been fraught with difficulty.
Irish soccer is not like GAA. It's part of a bigger system where the players are all overpriced. So the cost of getting in the sort of players that might make the game more attractive is out of reach. This is a huge problem all over Europe. Punters prefer to watch the galacticos  on TV rather than go to their local stadium to watch slower, less talented players who can't hack it anywhere else.
The best players leave.
In GAA they don't.

The GAA gets bigger crowds.
Soccer doesn't care about Ireland either.
Indeed, the GAA gets bigger crowds because they are watching the highest level of GAA. In Ireland, when you watch association football, you are watching a standard that is far below the best, and unsurprisingly the public don't turn out in their droves for this.

None of this is the FAIs's fault. It's because Ireland is a small peripheral country whose best players have always left it, meaning the club game here could never get off the ground in a major way. It's just the way it is.

But it's therefore futile to ask why association football doesn't have good infrastructure. The game in this country is down on its uppers because it is small fry in a wider European context, and because Ireland is almost unique in Europe, certainly among small countries, in having two other major field sport organisations competing against association football. Norway, Croatia, Denmark and the likes do not have GAA or rugby.

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: Jinxy on July 25, 2018, 08:22:45 PM
This is why I said Duff's comments were unhelpful.
It wasn't what he said so much as the aggressive tone he used.
Plenty of people within and outside the GAA 'family' have articulated the view that the hierarchy needs to get with the times over the last week.
There was a level of vitriol from Duff, that echoed a lot of the 'grab all association' guff on social media, and that really got peoples backs up.
The fact that he's affiliated with Shamrock Rovers, whose fan base seem to be virulently anti-GAA, doesn't help with the perception that this was an opportunity to stick the knife in, safe in the knowledge that popular opinion would be behind him.
It's not hypocritical to take issue with that while agreeing that the game should be in PUC and acknowledging that HQ have dropped the ball AGAIN.
Any idea why that might be?

Jinxy

If you were any use you'd be playing.

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: Jinxy on July 25, 2018, 11:24:04 PM
Yeah, the Thomas Davis affair.
So its ok to pop at them 10 years later, but its an outrage when they do the same?

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM


omaghjoe

What a twerp he is.

Epitomises the soccer (&rugby for that matter) crowd for me....seething with an underlying resentment at the GAA.
Ordinarily they can keep their mouth shut about what they really feel most of the time but when they think they have the opportune moment it all comes blurting out.

Numerous incidents from various people who loathe the GAA letting their mouths getting the better of them. seems to stem in a large part from Dublin.


stephenite

Quote from: TheClubman on July 25, 2018, 12:35:38 PM
The bottom line is - the rules do not allow it. And if we're suggesting rules should be broken when it suits us I'd suggest that's a large part of the problem with this country....everyone believes they're "an exception" or "a one-off" and should get favourable treatment. That's basically the system we're used to under FF/FG and co but it's not right.

I'd suggest the people who are outraged use their energy to put motions through GAA clubs and get the rules changed at congress. It's a long time since the old rule 42 was amended to allow rugby and soccer into Croke Park while Lansdowne Road was being redeveloped. I've seen or heard of no motion to further relax the rules being defeated. We can't have rule changes by media outcry. There's a process. For all its faults it has stood the GAA in good stead. The agenda can't be set by the news reel.

Incompetent thinking, breathtaking in it's arrogance.

Syferus

This thread is having the unintended consequence of proving that some of the horrible stereotypes about the GAA are very much alive in some of the vocal minority trying to find a hundred whataboutisms to absolve the GAA of terrible behaviour around a fûcking charity match. If you are so myopic you have to pin your hatred of other sports on your chest, have the good sense not to die on this particular cross.

seafoid

Quote from: sid waddell on July 25, 2018, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2018, 06:58:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 25, 2018, 12:18:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2018, 11:42:27 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 25, 2018, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 25, 2018, 10:40:04 AM
I don't think Melbourne or Sydney are relevant to the GAA. Sport in Ireland has been politicised for over 100 years and relations between the GAA and soccer/rugby have always had a bit of needle even after Croke Park was open to soccer and rugby. You can see it now on twitter.

Irish soccer has always had a parasitical side. Feeding off England. Never developing its infrastructure.  Also very short sighted. Selling Glenmalure park.
And extremely complacent.
It's always soccer asking.

The 3 organisations are like siblings.The GAA is the oldest and has always paid his way. The IRFU married a foreigner and has concussion . The FAI is the youngest, was always spoilt, and never paid for anything. She thinks the GAA should provide for her.
It's a lot easier to "pay your way" when you've never had to pay your players.

Association football in 26 county Ireland has never developed a strong domestic game because i) it had and has English football on its doorstep and ii) the whole official culture of the Irish Free State was against it, including the GAA's ban. Before 1922, the game was controlled from Belfast.

The League of Ireland is like a corner shop trying to survive with a Tesco superstore 50 yards down the road from it.

If anything, English football has acted as a parasite on Irish football, taking all its best players and the vast majority of Irish public interest in the game.

A lot of your points relate to structural issues within soccer. Most small countries say population less than 15m struggle with their domestic leagues because the best players are hoovered up to play with Bayern, Juve, Real or whoever. Soccer is a money game and money controls what happens. Even the Dutch League has problems. Reginal teams do not have the money to buy the players that might make make their games interesting. The top 10 European clubs spent an average of Euro 250m on transfers last season. the top Swiss team spent EUR 7m .  The 5th wealthiest Swiss team spent EUR 1m. And Swiss soccer is relatively well managed.

A lot of soccer players are overpaid as well.
Maybe it would be better to put the money into infrastructure.
The corner shop could be expanded and start offering organic products that Tesco don't sell.
Management in the FAI has been substandard for a number of decades.
There aren't many association football players in Ireland who are overpaid. Some aren't even paid at all. Look at Bray Wanderers.

As I said, when you don't have to pay players, and have a lot bigger attendances, as is the case in the GAA, it's a lot easier to invest in infrastructure.

Even the modest improvements which have taken place in Irish association football in recent times in that regard, such as the new Lansdowne Road, Turner's Cross, Tallaght and Terryland Park, have been fraught with difficulty.
Irish soccer is not like GAA. It's part of a bigger system where the players are all overpriced. So the cost of getting in the sort of players that might make the game more attractive is out of reach. This is a huge problem all over Europe. Punters prefer to watch the galacticos  on TV rather than go to their local stadium to watch slower, less talented players who can't hack it anywhere else.
The best players leave.
In GAA they don't.

The GAA gets bigger crowds.
Soccer doesn't care about Ireland either.
Indeed, the GAA gets bigger crowds because they are watching the highest level of GAA. In Ireland, when you watch association football, you are watching a standard that is far below the best, and unsurprisingly the public don't turn out in their droves for this.

None of this is the FAIs's fault. It's because Ireland is a small peripheral country whose best players have always left it, meaning the club game here could never get off the ground in a major way. It's just the way it is.

But it's therefore futile to ask why association football doesn't have good infrastructure. The game in this country is down on its uppers because it is small fry in a wider European context, and because Ireland is almost unique in Europe, certainly among small countries, in having two other major field sport organisations competing against association football. Norway, Croatia, Denmark and the likes do not have GAA or rugby.

Sid, I don't think the global state of soccer is the.GAA's fault. Switzerland is wealthy, doesn't have hurling or rugby and has a semi professional league. There are lovely stadia.The Swiss are good administrators.  In the last 10 years Servette and Neuchatel Xamax both went bankrupt and had to do a Rangers. FC Sion had 10 or 15 points dropped for something the chairman did. That is 3 teams out of the 10 in the first division. St Gallen are first division. They might get 3000 for home games.

Mayo footballers get a lot more for league matches.

Basel play in that league. They developed Mo Salah. They try to make things work for them and they have a big money bags sponsor.  Most of the other teams don't.   

Even if there was no gah in Oireland , even if the FAI was world class, soccer would struggle.

2 of the biggest issues are the quality drain and competition with TV.


The GAA has its own problems but one of its strengths is the focus on the local. Brian Fenton is never compared negatively with someone who plays for Madrid. Because he is the standard.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU