Down Club Hurling & Football

[thewobbler]

Bridgelad - I think you've got three forwards in the half-back line, and I think we would be crucified.

We should stop trying to put square pegs into round holes, and start by playing defenders in our defence. If this means a talented forward has to sit on the bench, so be it.

I have no doubt that Doyle can be a strong influence at centre half-back to the point of controlling games, but he won't be able to do so when the players alongside him aren't capable of covering for any of his defensive shortfalls. I would suggest (once more) going further than this again and playing an extra defender. This idea is only reinforced in recognising that when Coulter is playing, Down show little or no inclination to play the ball to the other full-forwards. So why put two of them in there alongside him? Surely we only need one Sideshow Bob?

But in defence of the defence, if Isaac Newton applied a law to football as he did to physics, it would read something like "when your midfield gets demolished, your full-back line is always going to look awful". And Down, as we have done for the past 5 years, look incapable of winning any sort of regular breaking-ball. This is the biggest problem with Down football at present, and until this problem is resolved, our last line of defence will always look poorer than it is.


1. M McAllister

2. L Howard
3. G McArdle / C Murney (McArdle should get another few games before any decisions are made)
4. C Murney / C McGovern (would rather have Gavin Barry, but I'm presuming that's not going to happen)

13. D Rafferty
5. P Murphy
6. L Doyle
7. M Cole (would rather have Mark Doran, but I'm presuming that's not going to happen)

8. D Gordon
9. D Rooney

10. R Murtagh
11. A Rogers
12. J Clarke

14. B Coulter
15  P McComiskey

Harsh on Sexton, Hughes and Fegan, but that's life.

[Pangurban]

Quote from spirit of 91/94.......Although when Benny didnt play in the McKenna Cup we scored at will, do players rely on him to much? or indeed does he have a influence in the dressing room over the younger members?
When i suggested a few weeks that Benny was part of the problem rather than the solution, i came in for some abuse and severe critizism. I still hold that this is true, and will become more evident. It is not Bennys fault, he is an enormously talented footballer, lacking a management who know how to utilise him or guide those around him.  Until this problem is resolved, the team as a whole will perform better without Benny

[downredblack]

Well was at the match yesterday also, i dont know where to start! As one of the previous posters said McAllister has looked dodgy, he was at fault for one of the goals, looked dodgy under the high ball all day. Luke howard wasn't too bad, McArdle is defo not the answer to full back, very exposed yest. Cole wasn't much better. Turley hasn't got a clue think he would struggle to get onto the top 4 teams in the county. Ambrose i think touched the ball 5 times, midfield was none existent Rooney lost possesion numerous times and got stupidly sent off, (and thats last years captain).   The quality of ball into the full forward line was just not good enough. Packie just aint good enough dropped every ball he got! Clarke made a massive difference when introduced. Think Aidan Carr might be an answer to centre half back, looked assured on the ball. Leitrim poured through the middle, doyle all over the show.


Downredblack said that down scored free will in the mckenna cup without benny, open your eyes man, every one of them teams were weak very weak! Some people got carried away with that! Mickey walsh would have made a massive differnce yest even mckernan would have been better than ambrose. We had no one to take the ball from the defence and distribute it into the full forward line. Think Fegan needs to be taken out for a few games just not gutsy enough!

Mcveigh, Howard, A.N Other, Cole, Murtagh, Carr, Mckernan, Lynch, Gordon, S Kearney, Doyle, Hughes, McComiskey, Coulter, Sexton or Clarke.

Not a bad side, what ya's think?

The only thing I can remember saying about  Down's scoring abilities was ...

"Down have been getting plenty of scores so I can't see Ross changing to the high ball into the big man tactic plus we were cleaned out at Midfield for long periods the last day . So I think we will see Dan in the middle "

[lisdoon1]

My team at the minute would be

Connell...... much better keeper than McAllister
Murney
Colgan To try him out in that position
Cole
Paul Murphy when fit.
Doyle
Carr
Lynch
Gordon we need a man in to pull the ball out of the air.... Lynch has good physical presence in Midfield & I havent seen much better to date.
Coulter
Murtagh . better up front & hard worker too.
Hughes
McComiskey - lets unleash this lad, he has been playing brilliantly for queens & U21's all year.
Clarke
Sexton

I think Ross made a mistake in dropping connell, agree with who ever said it earlier, Ambrose is playing under his namesake...

Any update opn Paul Murphy, full fit?

I see Dooher is back playing footbal & targets the game in Omagh for his return........

[buglebhoy]

M.McCallister isnt the answer to a goal keeper!! he is woeful under the highball after seeing 3 u21 games but an excellent shot stopper!! and without a quality full back in the side mccallister can't be doing nets for down seniors!! K.Murphy from ballyholland is excellent under high ball but i hear his kickouts can be slightly inconsistent at times!!

[Leo]

Down Gael and the wobbler, you have both dispensed with Hughes which is harsh. Properly utilised he is one of our strengths. Agree with other posts that Ambrose is there on name, Fegan wont cut it in the championship.
While not copying what Tyrone did with the late Cormac McAnallen, it was his switch to full back that won Tyrone their first All-Ireland. We saw the same in the Down 91-94 set-up.
Room for Kalum King instead of Lynch at midfield if his comeback is serious and I'm told he's flying at present.

[behind the wire]

M.McCallister isnt the answer to a goal keeper!! he is woeful under the highball after seeing 3 u21 games but an excellent shot stopper!! and without a quality full back in the side mccallister can't be doing nets for down seniors!! K.Murphy from ballyholland is excellent under high ball but i hear his kickouts can be slightly inconsistent at times!!

can i just ask you buglebhoy what performances you are basing your assessment of mcallister on?

from what i seen of the u21 campaign his performances were excellent, particularly kick outs against the wind on saturday.
he has been goalkeeper for an all ireland minor winning side and an ulster u21 winning side and quite possibly a sigeron winner this year. he is 20 years of age and made his senior debut on sunday protected by a defence which could kindly be described as laughable. taken all this into account, after one game, you reckon the fella simply isnt good enough to keep goals for down.

is the criticism aimed at mcallister not a bit ott after one game? ok from what i have heard he was at fault for one of the goals but making your senior debut with a defence like that in front of you would leave alot to be desired me thinks. time will tell, but to say he isnt good enough after one game shows how little some people on this board know about down football.

[Uladh]

Lads, Its the time of year for shaping the championship 15 and lots of disussion but... Colgan at full back on a Championship team? i can tell you now to forget about it. He is woefully out of his depth at Sigerson level never mind Senior intercounty football.

[Down Gael]

I would have to agree with Ulster, Colgan cant be considered for a starting place on the championship team.

I think a lot of the Down posters must be following a different team. McAllister in goal Are you having a laugh. Seriously lads, he has had two games for the senior squad this year. The first against Tyrone in the McKenna Cup, the second in Leitrim on Sunday. Both disasters, he looks lost between the posts and was too easily caught out for Leitrims second goal, which proved to be the match winner and the score that confines us to Division 3 football for another year. My first choice keeper is Bernie Connell, but I dont think he is even training with the squad at the minute so I would have Alder and even McVeigh before McAllister.

Leo, Daniel Hughes is another of those Down players who flatters to deceive. He is still being picked on his performance against Derry in the McKenna Cup. He has been very poor in the last few games, being totally anonymous against both Wexford and Leitrim. Kalum King would be a very welcome addition to any squad, at least there is a bit of fight in the lad, but remember what happened the last time he was rushed onto the team?

[goldenyears]

its wonderful the feedback generated by down supporters depending on whether we win or lose! compare the highs of the mckenna cup win with the reaction to sunday's disastrous defeat!! we really are our own worst enemy at times....

ulster titles and all ireland potential to the tommy cooper cup!

seriously, picking the team is completely irrelevant unless we change our style of play, and it is apparent that current management are old school shoot em up man for man tactics wise....take every down team that ever existed, if the opponents play them man v man, down are a match for anyone - we have as good a scoring ratio as any team out there....

unfortunately its also about nor conceding and that is our big problem - if we dont revert to a 7 or even 8 man defence then we arent gonna do anything again this year - i have been saying for 3 or 4 years now, the talent is there to score at will even with a 4 man forward line, but unless we shore up the back and stop conceding goals then we are not gonna do a thing.

take the u21s as a prime example of this theory - no defence style open attacking football and they are a joy to watch - if derry had played more defensively down would not have managed that - its a flaw in our philosophy, its a la kevin keegan - the problem is we get caught out by the big boys, who have a defensive plan AND can score as well!

[Fíor Gael]

Goldenyears, In short I think it's fair to say we are just not good enough at the moment.

[general]

giv the seniors a chance lads, ross is tryin out differnt players!!!
once champ comes hel hav the boys up for it!!!

tyrone not such a great side, after al they hav problems of thier own!

[amallon]

Anyone see DJ giving a bollicking to a Down supporter leaving the stand on Sunday? The supporter is supposed to have told him to "Put them on the bus, take them home and let them stay there".  A bit on the harsh side but there was a lot of very angry Down fans in the stand on Sunday.  A lot of them were shouting Down at the management to take a certain player off, who they then did take off. 

[off the ground]

lynch is not up to county standard though we are not spoilt for choice of midfield by any means. we seriously walsh need to be on the team !

[Mourne Rover]

Goldenyears is quite right to highlight the fickle nature of Down supporters, but I would question the suggestion that extra defenders will transform our season. In that system, you need physically strong, exceptionally fit and totally confident players to retain possession at the back and wait for colleagues to appear in supporting positions. I'm not at all sure too many members of the Down squad match that description.

It's also definitely wrong to say that Derry did not play defensively in the u21 final. They pulled 14 players back as soon as they took the lead in the second half and still lost the game.