Cork fans flying the confederate flag

[sid waddell]

I remember when Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly a "n*****", Jimmy Hill came out with the following.

"In that context, you wouldn't think that words like n***** were particularly insulting: it would be funny. Without meaning to insult any black men, it's us having fun ... I mean, n***** is black - so we have jokes where we call them n****** because they're black. Why should that be any more of an offence than someone calling me chinny?"

It's amazing that so many people appear to have a very similar attitude to Jimmy Hill regarding racist symbolism.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Ach look, from, say, a Kerry perspective, those amadáin who still flutter the Confederate Flag might well inhabit a cave somewhere in deepest Cork, oblivious to the wider-world connotations, like, cut off from all forms of normal  civilisation. So Jacky happened to mention in passing, in any case

[Lar Naparka]

Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.

Dear Frankie,
I have a rifle, a fairly high-powered yoke that I go target shooting with. (If you follow me.)
Should I give up this pastime because this type of gun has been used to kill people and by using it for innocent purposes I am giving offence to somebody else.?

Why stop your slippery slope argument there?

Why not a kitchen knife?

Or a car?

How about a plane?

They're all tools which have and can be used to kill.

Except, all those things were not designed to symbolize something or convey a specific meaning.

Hah? Only "slippery slope?"
I don't do sarcasm very well I'm afraid. I'd stick to the day job- if I had a day job so I'll have to make it up as I go along..
I was not being serious, in case you haven't noticed. My analogy was pure daft as it was meant to be.
It belongs to the same concept of logic as "You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it,?" which came courtesy of Eamonn a few posts up the page.
I mean if that line of argument is accepted by you, why should you get upset over what I wrote?
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, isn't it?

[J70]

Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.

Dear Frankie,
I have a rifle, a fairly high-powered yoke that I go target shooting with. (If you follow me.)
Should I give up this pastime because this type of gun has been used to kill people and by using it for innocent purposes I am giving offence to somebody else.?

Why stop your slippery slope argument there?

Why not a kitchen knife?

Or a car?

How about a plane?

They're all tools which have and can be used to kill.

Except, all those things were not designed to symbolize something or convey a specific meaning.

Hah? Only "slippery slope?"
I don't do sarcasm very well I'm afraid. I'd stick to the day job- if I had a day job so I'll have to make it up as I go along..
I was not being serious, in case you haven't noticed. My analogy was pure daft as it was meant to be.
It belongs to the same concept of logic as "You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it,?" which came courtesy of Eamonn a few posts up the page.
I mean if that line of argument is accepted by you, why should you get upset over what I wrote?
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, isn't it?

But Eamonn's substitution of the Nazi flag for the confederate one is valid. If one flag can be used amidst claims of non-endorsement of its original repugnant symbolism, then why not another?

[AZOffaly]

I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

[Keyser soze]

The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously 

Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously. 

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

[J70]

I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

The "south" and "rebels" are about as thin a justification for the use of a racist flag as one could possibly think up.

The NAZIs started out as a rebel outfit who tried to overthrow the government by force before Hitler decided propaganda and the ballet box and behind the scenes murder and intimidation was the way to go. Had they not succeeded and were consigned to history as a failed (before taking power), defeated outfit like the Confederacy, would that justify Cork using their flag? Is there something romantic about the confederacy that isn't there with the NAZIs because they caused a world conflict and murdered millions, instead of starting a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives in an effort to preserve the enslavement of an entire race? Is it an issue of degree?

Let's say Apartheid South Africa had used a red flag? They were a "southern" outfit. Would THAT have been ok to use?

All these flags symbolize similar world views. Splitting hairs over "rebel" and "south" and so on is not a strong argument in favour of their use. Neither is "well, we use the Confederate flag but at least we are not using the swastika!"

[AZOffaly]

Are you being deliberately argumentative or obtuse? I'm telling you a couple of potential reasons why Cork would have identified with the Rebel South, back when they started flying that flag. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then you are deluded.

However, now it is obviously inappropriate, and they should stop as the flag itself has much more obvious connotations with slavery and alt-right nutcases.

[sid waddell]

The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously 

Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously. 

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

The confederate flag is an unequivocal symbol of racism and slavery, just as the Nazi flag is an unequivocal symbol of anti-semitism, racism and genocide.

It doesn't matter where they are flown, the symbolism is the same.

The flag of the United Kingdom is the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state. It is not a flag that symbolises oppression or slavery, much as you might not like it.

The same goes for the Irish tricolour.

This is all terribly easy stuff to understand, yet you're one of a surprisingly high number of posters who can't grasp such.

[J70]

Are you being deliberately argumentative or obtuse? I'm telling you a couple of potential reasons why Cork would have identified with the Rebel South, back when they started flying that flag. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then you are deluded.

However, now it is obviously inappropriate, and they should stop as the flag itself has much more obvious connotations with slavery and alt-right nutcases.

Those "reasons" were no more valid twenty years ago than they are now.

I could see some foolish young people not realizing the inappropriateness of those flags (I was a young moron once too and I liked the Dukes of Hazard as a kid) but surely it was incumbent on the GAA to point out their folly?

But, you have to start from where you're at, and hopefully the use of this flag will end forthwith.

[AZOffaly]

Agreed.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

[AZOffaly]

Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

I don't understand your point FoSB. Do you think the colours are not a factor in why the Cork lads fly it?

[J70]

Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

The Irish tricolour??

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

I don't understand your point FoSB. Do you think the colours are not a factor in why the Cork lads fly it?

Sorry AZ, nothing directed at any personal contributions, but if we excuse flags in whole or in part because of the colours deployed therein then we're back in National School, though that might be an excuse for the latest clutch of Langers!