On Tuesday, the DUP leader said there would be:
- no compulsory Irish language in schools (fair enough)
- no-one would be forced to learn Irish (fair enough)
- no quotas for Irish speakers in the civil service (can understand concerns, so one for further discussion)
- would be no bilingual road signs (why not?)
How on earth could bilingual road signs impact anyone's rights? Your hatred of Irish language must be such that the very sight of it is unacceptable to you. This is a demand based on nothing rational, simply blind bigotry. Keep digging that hole for yourself Arlene.
With this and Brexit, it is evident that the unionist community has abandoned any sense of sharing the 6 counties. Which is rather strange when they are a declining proportion of its population.
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
all fair points but are these the road sign related reasons the DUP are adamant there will be no act?
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
There are place-name signs and warning signs. Place-names are Irish in origin and should on signs. Warning signs should have as little text as possible but be symbolic, so they might well not change.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
Complete and utter shite
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Unionism generally have no leaders , leading by example so that all have equal rights
No give way with the majority of them, and no forward thinking
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
Where has Arlene suggested their opposition is due to cost?
There are Irish language enthusiasts in Connemara and West Kerry who oppose having road signs in English. They are prepared to take English speakers Euros though
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:57:17 PM
There are Irish language enthusiasts in Connemara and West Kerry who oppose having road signs in English. They are prepared to take English speakers Euros though
There are people in Italy, Spain, Germany, Denmark etc who have roadsigns in their language and who also welcome tourists from English speaking regions.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.
Under an Irish language act Orange Halls would be forced to offer confession.Protestant bars would be put out of business if they refused to sell holy water.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Who's saying that?
FWIW I drive through areas with Ulster Scots road signs (yes there are some out there) and am I offended, no?
I do get wee laugh to myself when I see the sign for the "Hard Bried Raa" in Greyabbey, f**king stupid looking
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.
There's been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.
My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.
I won't be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on February 14, 2018, 01:53:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
Where has Arlene suggested their opposition is due to cost?
I'm not bothered about Arlene's opinions and objections to be honest.
There's potholes destroying wheels on every country road in NI at present. If cost savings can be made, they can be re applied elsewhere.
Meanwhile, try driving cross country from Naas to Drogheda without sat nav and watch how an endless series of crossroads interchange between having no signs, signs in Irish, signs in English, bilingual signs, and worst of all no common pattern in the direction they're sending you in (Navan, Drogheda and Trim will appear randomly on junctions). That to me is a much bigger issue than whether our heritage is being protected.
They're road signs. Their job is to assist the flow of traffic. They shouldn't be used as political tools or treated as monuments to nationalism. They should help get me home.
Quote from: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
Complete and utter shite
You beat me to it
The funniest part was more Ink, Has the SF stipulated no modern graphics in replacement of signs
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger
Unionists again demonstrating that NI is completely unworkable. I'm fine with that.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger
The unionists have been in the manger for 500 years. Time to move over in the bed.
If you drive from Belfast to Ards, you will see signs in Ulster Scots as well as English. Snarlene doesn't seem to have an issue with that.
Some great craic on Twitter with people like Jim Allister and people explaining how e.g. Broughshane is an Irish name.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger
They are a political party. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't compare SF to the Irish Language either.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger
They are a political party. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't compare SF to the Irish Language either.
Being a political party doesn't stop them being sectarian no more than DUP.
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Strange how the DUPUDA want the 6 Cos to be different to Scotland and Wales. ;D
Yes indeed the oul hatred and bigotry showing in spades again.
Will they all leave when they discover that 90% of placenames in the 6 Cos are bad pronunciations and English phonetic spellings of Gaeilge??
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.
It's exactly the way Unionists/Nationalists are proclaiming this. . . it doesn't matter that they aren't the same it's perception.
I literally could not give one f**king iota about an Irish language act. Blah blah symbolism equality etc. etc. It's bolloxology and if this is what is holding up a deal then shame on all parties. DUP should give a token in allowing Irish Language street signs in areas where requested but bollocks to the rest of it sure hardly anybody speaks it and nobody is stopping anybody from speaking it if they want to!
Get back to work!!
is there anything that nordies wont argue about .
seems to me that all the big issues have been resolved(apart from sovereignty) thanks to the IRA sinn fein and SDLP but you all still hate one another so you argue about anything Just to show your not going to give an inch.
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.
Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.
SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.
SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.
I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.
Quote from: rosnarun on February 14, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
is there anything that nordies wont argue about .
seems to me that all the big issues have been resolved(apart from sovereignty) thanks to the IRA sinn fein and SDLP but you all still hate one another so you argue about anything Just to show your not going to give an inch.
I love this free stater ignorance. Even reasonable people across the political spectrum can accept that the DUP are a special case. It's not a case of not giving an inch, it's s case of having bigoted insular right-wing British nationalists block anything that doesn't conform to their vision of a traditional, white, Christian, Protestant, British Northern Ireland. Unfortunately people in their droves (and by people I mean working class Protestants) vote these clowns in based on a shared love of an outdated sense of loyalty to a monarchy that doesn't even care about them, despite the fact the DUP will do next to nothing for these communities unless is some form of benefit in it for their party.
Sinn Féin actually work for the communities they represent (Loyalists will tell you this in envy) and whatever about their past (let's not forget Unionist parties aren't squeaky clean either) have made genuine efforts to reach out to Unionism. Unionism can't even bear the thought of legislative recognition of the Irish language and instead retreat into this pathetic accusation of "cultural supremacy"; something they wrote the f**king book on!
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
So it looks like a fight to the death between Snarlene and Hyacinth
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
So it looks like alight to the death between Snarlene and Hyacinth
And he's advising other people to get educated ::) Another razor sharp thrust from the board's resident idiot
Sinn Fein are silly
drop the roadsigns issue. allow schools to teach Irish if they wish.
get the assembly back up running.
christ almighty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43064009
no deal
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
Sinn Fein are silly
drop the roadsigns issue. allow schools to teach Irish if they wish.
get the assembly back up running.
christ almighty.
This road signs is bollix. If you're a Gaeltacht area, yes. Otherwise, no.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 03:23:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.
Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger
They are a political party. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't compare SF to the Irish Language either.
Being a political party doesn't stop them being sectarian no more than DUP.
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
I never said SF aren't sectarian (Nor that they are either), but I did say that the Irish language and by extension Irish road signs are not sectarian. That's my point.
There are loads of everyday British symbols in everyday life and we aren't clammering to get rid of them. We're not asking for the English language to be taken of the signs and replaced by Irish. (By the way, I couldn't care less about having Irish road signs but Nationalists should not be the only one compromising anymore. The day of Unionist veto's has to end).
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
Sinn Fein are silly
drop the roadsigns issue. allow schools to teach Irish if they wish.
get the assembly back up running.
christ almighty.
The unionists are fighting against the dying of the light
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 14, 2018, 04:33:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43064009
no deal
Fine. Let demographics and Brexit take care of the rest. Arlene Foster is playing such a blinder that surely she must be a Sinn Fein plant.. Tiocfaidh ar la!
The DUP have made Teresa May look foolish twice now. The fact that her and Varadkar flew over to Dublin on Monday would give the impression that they either expected a deal or thought that they could push a deal over the line. Neither happened. Most nationalists would like to see an assembly up and running to provide some form of local governance in the short term but deep down I don't think many are overly bothered about Stormont. Arlene Foster has overseen a litany of mishaps, collapsed deals and broken promises under her tenure. She is being led by the bottom up instead of taking risks and showing real leadership from the top down.
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.
Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.
SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.
SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.
I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.
ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
It has to start in the first place for it to be able to stop.
Quote from: red hander on February 14, 2018, 04:47:00 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 14, 2018, 04:33:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43064009
no deal
Fine. Let demographics and Brexit take care of the rest. Arlene Foster is playing such a blinder that surely she must be a Sinn Fein plant.. Tiocfaidh ar la!
You couldn't make it up.
To be fair one thing the DUP are good at is leading the media by the nose. They briefed journalists over the weekend that a deal was in the offing. Journos fall all over themselves to say it's imminent, and Leo and Theresa buy the BS. What they were doing was running a possible deal up the flagpole to see how the knuckle draggers would react. The grassroots, OO and Jamie Bryson say NEVER and the deal is fecked.
Quote from: red hander on February 14, 2018, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
So it looks like alight to the death between Snarlene and Hyacinth
And he's advising other people to get educated ::) Another razor sharp thrust from the board's resident idiot
Did Nurse open your strait jacket to let you at the magic machine for a while?
Quote from: yellowcard on February 14, 2018, 04:51:25 PM
The DUP have made Teresa May look foolish twice now. The fact that her and Varadkar flew over to Dublin on Monday would give the impression that they either expected a deal or thought that they could push a deal over the line. Neither happened. Most nationalists would like to see an assembly up and running to provide some form of local governance in the short term but deep down I don't think many are overly bothered about Stormont. Arlene Foster has overseen a litany of mishaps, collapsed deals and broken promises under her tenure. She is being led by the bottom up instead of taking risks and showing real leadership from the top down.
They bum and blow about the power of their 10 MPs at Westminster, but it's completely built on sand. If May fucks them over by backing down to the EU over special status for the putrid statelet after Brexit what are they gonna do? Pull the government down and let Corbyn in, who utterly despises them? And where's the £1bn they were crowing about. Next to nothing has been delivered on that front. They are like a wee kid closing his eyes, covering his ears and screaming No No No No No No No. The crocodiles have awakened thanks to the DUP and have realised loyalists will never treat the native people of this part of the island as equals, so they're going to use their mandate to bring the artificial shithole to an end once and for all. Paisley saw what was in the wind, so did Robinson, that's why they attempted to moderate their approach, but both fell to the bigots of their party, loyalism and the Orange Order. They just don't realise, or are too stupid to see, that the dam has cracked and the hole is only gonna get bigger. It's endgame, and when history is written we will have a thoroughly mediocre solicitor from Irvinestown to thank for a lot of it :)
Quote from: haranguerer on February 14, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.
Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.
SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.
SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.
I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.
ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
What equality do you not have?
Quote from: red hander on February 14, 2018, 05:35:19 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 14, 2018, 04:51:25 PM
The DUP have made Teresa May look foolish twice now. The fact that her and Varadkar flew over to Dublin on Monday would give the impression that they either expected a deal or thought that they could push a deal over the line. Neither happened. Most nationalists would like to see an assembly up and running to provide some form of local governance in the short term but deep down I don't think many are overly bothered about Stormont. Arlene Foster has overseen a litany of mishaps, collapsed deals and broken promises under her tenure. She is being led by the bottom up instead of taking risks and showing real leadership from the top down.
They bum and blow about the power of their 10 MPs at Westminster, but it's completely built on sand. If May f**ks them over by backing down to the EU over special status for the putrid statelet after Brexit what are they gonna do? Pull the government down and let Corbyn in, who utterly despises them? And where's the £1bn they were crowing about. Next to nothing has been delivered on that front. They are like a wee kid closing his eyes, covering his ears and screaming No No No No No No No. The crocodiles have awakened thanks to the DUP and have realised loyalists will never treat the native people of this part of the island as equals, so they're going to use their mandate to bring the artificial shithole to an end once and for all. Paisley saw what was in the wind, so did Robinson, that's why they attempted to moderate their approach, but both fell to the bigots of their party, loyalism and the Orange Order. They just don't realise, or are too stupid to see, that the dam has cracked and the hole is only gonna get bigger. It's endgame, and when history is written we will have a thoroughly mediocre solicitor from Irvinestown to thank for a lot of it :)
Agree with all of that.
A very weak leader, she will do anything to save her own skin and is being influenced from the bottom up. She lost her nerve again, at least Trimble, Paisley and Robinson took brave decisions, when faced with a big decision she just reverts to type. Short term insular thinking driven by the fear, hatred and bigotry of Allister and Bryson screaming betrayal from the sideline.
Quote from: haranguerer on February 14, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.
Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.
SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.
SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.
I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.
ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
100 % agree with this. That's it in a nutshell. I get that a lot of nationalists on here don't give a toss about Irish road signs etc. but enough is enough. How they cant see that I don't know.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it's worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.
More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.
The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.
But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it's an unnecessary distraction.
Never read such garbage in all my life.
It's customary to replace signs as they wear out when switching to a new standard, so there's no extra cost.
"More ink" indeed. We're not printing on a page. You need a reflective surface for the font AND the background, so there's not one square millimetre extra of paint used.
Signs can be made perfectly legible with an additional language added if you use a bit of imagination and design them properly.
Quote from: HiMucker on February 14, 2018, 06:05:24 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 14, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.
Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.
SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.
SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.
I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.
ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
100 % agree with this. That's it in a nutshell. I get that a lot of nationalists on here don't give a toss about Irish road signs etc. but enough is enough. How they cant see that I don't know.
Bang on.
What have the dup ever compromised on? Ever?
Not just the DUP, no appetite for an ILA across Unionism so Foster was never going to be able to sell it
Do I take it that most of the Nationalist Community aren't too bothered if Stormont and the Executive are gone?
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
If the OO could drop the anti-catholic bigotry I wouldn't have a problem with them marching wherever they want. There's plenty in their culture that they could celebrate without selling "kick the Pope" mix tapes and banishing anyone that goes to a "popish" funeral.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2018, 06:25:30 PM
Do I take it that most of the Nationalist Community aren't too bothered if Stormont and the Executive are gone?
Well it depends how harsh direct rule is, normal people just want the place governed competently
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 02:17:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.
There's been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.
My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.
I won't be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.
A car-load of speed-obsessed teenage lads with R plates and alloy wheels are a far bigger threat to road safety than a sign saying "Béal Feirste."
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 03:23:05 PM
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Translation: "I didn't compare the OO to the Irish language, I just compared the OO to the Irish language."
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 02:17:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 14, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.
There's been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.
My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.
I won't be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.
A car-load of speed-obsessed teenage lads with R plates and alloy wheels are a far bigger threat to road safety than a sign saying "Béal Feirste."
Chances are if the sign says "Beal Feirste" it's someone else's car
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2018, 06:25:30 PM
Do I take it that most of the Nationalist Community aren't too bothered if Stormont and the Executive are gone?
I get the impression nationalists want the assembly more than the unionists. In fact, unionists would prefer direct rule over power-sharing (or "mandatory coalition" as they've tried to re-brand it). This is why I think SF have boxed themselves into a corner here. Sure Dodds was up at PMQs last week asking May if there was any chance of getting direct rule going.
SF "threatened" to collapse an assembly that the unionists are half-hearted about at best, and Arlene et al are happy to see it go. It's like "threatening" your child to take away his vegetables if he doesn't eat them.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 03:23:05 PM
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Translation: "I didn't compare the OO to the Irish language, I just compared the OO to the Irish language."
CoCo the Clown strikes again
Any harm in asking what kind of ILA we'd like to see?
From the shopping list, here's what I'd like to see and what I'm not fussed about:
- Live translation in the assembly - No
- Translation of all government documents into Irish - No
- Bilingual road signs - Maybe in some areas where local authorities want it, but only if it has broad support
- Mandatory learning of Irish in all schools - No
- Better funding for the Irish medium education sector - Yes
- Better funding for NGOs that promote Irish - Yes
Increasing the number of people who can actually speak the language fluently has to come first. Being able to do all official business in Irish can come later when there's sufficient demand for it.
If SF could tone down their demands as to what they want to see in an ILA there'd be a better chance of getting one. Frankly I'm sad to see culture being weaponised as a political pawn. It didn't help at the time of the Drumcree parade disputes and it's not helping now, it's just reinforcing this unionist perception that Irish and Irishness is something that's a threat to them.
Foster is too mediocre to be in charge now. She is a small minded unionist who isn't a patch on Terence Ó Neill. The Unionist dominance is over and they need someone who can think strategically. No no no is no longer going to fly.
Stop the wages for the whole lot of them and let's see things change.
Serious question for those that think this will help the nationalists and bring around a UI quicker.
Why or how do you think that?
[/quote]
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
Quite right.
We don't need a government. We don't need a representative assembly. We don't have issues we need addressed. The important thing is we make Arlene eat her words. I'm utterly convinced that this type of smallmindness is the way to go
I think a majority of people here want to to see the assembly and executive up and running. They want to see decisions even tough ones made. They would also like to see some of the bribe Theresa gave Arlene and Nigel actually spent.
The problem is that of those that vote a majority voted for 2 parties that have little (DUP) or no (SF) interest in making the executive work.
DUP are happy to work the assembly and executive as long as they don't have to yield to anything that annoys a powerful minority in their voting base. They fear that base splitting the party.
SF have no interest in making tough decisions in NI that undermines their electioneering stance in RoI. They have ran from responsibility. Anywhere else they would pay an electoral price not here. The SF vote is robust. They could field anyone or indeed anything in any seat that they hold and retain it. So they can treat us northerners as dirt in order to shore up their electioneering in the south.
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
Foster is too mediocre to be in charge now. She is a small minded unionist who isn't a patch on Terence Ó Neill. The Unionist dominance is over and they need someone who can think strategically. No no no is no longer going to fly.
Is there anyone in the DUP with these credentials?
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
Quite right.
We don't need a government. We don't need a representative assembly. We don't have issues we need addressed. The important thing is we make Arlene eat her words. I'm utterly convinced that this type of smallmindness is the way to go
Of course we do but it was time for some home truths to get addressed and the DUP were forced to show their true colours. They wanted to kick the ILA can on up the road for another 20 years, Sinn Fein decided time was enough and fair play to them.
An ILA was part of the agreements signed up to by all. It's long past time it got done. I don't think SF are being unreasonable at all. And it makes no difference to unionists does it? They're not going to be forced to learn Irish FFS. I think this issue is really showing Foster and unionism up. I also agree that they're circling the plughole.....they've nowhere to go. They've been out thought and are paralysed with fear, not knowing which way to turn.
Quote from: red hander on February 14, 2018, 06:53:02 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 03:23:05 PM
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Translation: "I didn't compare the OO to the Irish language, I just compared the OO to the Irish language."
CoCo the Clown strikes again
Shouldn't you be watching your Mccarron films?
Quote from: TheOptimist on February 14, 2018, 08:08:52 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
Quite right.
We don't need a government. We don't need a representative assembly. We don't have issues we need addressed. The important thing is we make Arlene eat her words. I'm utterly convinced that this type of smallmindness is the way to go
Of course we do but it was time for some home truths to get addressed and the DUP were forced to show their true colours. They wanted to kick the ILA can on up the road for another 20 years, Sinn Fein decided time was enough and fair play to them.
When will it be time to call time on SF kicking health, education and infrastructure down the road?
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
SF have no interest in making tough decisions in NI that undermines their electioneering stance in RoI. They have ran from responsibility. Anywhere else they would pay an electoral price not here. The SF vote is robust. They could field anyone or indeed anything in any seat that they hold and retain it. So they can treat us northerners as dirt in order to shore up their electioneering in the south.
The odd thing is that a NI reflecting both sides is needed if it is to continue, while an affordable NI is needed if there is a be a UI, so both of these lack any long term perspective. However, as the prospect of government in Dublin approaches, SF will have to refine their policies to make them semi implementable and this can affect things in the 6 counties also. The DUP are most likely to disappear up themselves.
Quote from: Square Ball on February 14, 2018, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
Foster is too mediocre to be in charge now. She is a small minded unionist who isn't a patch on Terence Ó Neill. The Unionist dominance is over and they need someone who can think strategically. No no no is no longer going to fly.
Is there anyone in the DUP with these credentials?
Terence O'Neill was a poor leader, although he had some sense of the future.
Not sure if anyone in the DUP is likely to improve things, but Simon Hamilton's twitter is quite different from Sammy Wilson (being mostly about some English soccer team called Liverpool).
Sinn Fein surely.have a hidden agenda here. The DUP or unionism were never going to agree to an Irish language act. So where to now for the north. It does reflect the bigotry possessed by unionism they in no way will tolerate any irishness in the 6 counties. They are hanging on to the bitter end and won't give an inch even though their majority is rapidly fading. As proved by Brexit they will do anything no matter how it effects the people of the north to show their loyalty to the crown.
It doesent matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite "moderate", she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that's where the problem is. It's not with one person.
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 14, 2018, 08:18:38 PM
An ILA was part of the agreements signed up to by all. It's long past time it got done. I don't think SF are being unreasonable at all. And it makes no difference to unionists does it? They're not going to be forced to learn Irish FFS. I think this issue is really showing Foster and unionism up. I also agree that they're circling the plughole.....they've nowhere to go. They've been out thought and are paralysed with fear, not knowing which way to turn.
They know exactly which way to turn. Keep saying "no" to everything. As long as they're propping up such a weak Tory government there's nothing to stop them from blocking progress at every turn. Sad but true.
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 09:08:57 PM
It doesent matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite "moderate", she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that's where the problem is. It's not with one person.
They need someone to tell them that the old shite won't work any more. If it is polarised and they become a minority they wont be calling any shots.
They need someone who can move the people beyond fear of the unknown..
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 09:08:57 PM
It doesent matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite "moderate", she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that's where the problem is. It's not with one person.
She may have something in common with Theresa May in this respect.
However, some of her own interventions, the crocodile thing for instance, we not at all helpful.
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 09:08:57 PM
It doesent matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite "moderate", she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that's where the problem is. It's not with one person.
Really? Show us some examples of her 'quite moderate' approach then?
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27867855_1902749019736793_347259425420107237_n.jpg?oh=4ff204d3e0033c06497354ec8220f90c&oe=5B042C5E)
That's a classic lol.
Adams was right. They just can't cope with equality. Power sharing in the North is finished. Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...
Quote from: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
Adams was right. They just can't cope with equality. Power sharing in the North is finished. Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...
A majority of people want power sharing to work. The politicians are failing to make it work.
Where is the majority for joint authority?
Time to get back to government and quit running
Time for SF to publish their proposed ILA. Then we can hold both parties to account
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:16:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
Adams was right. They just can't cope with equality. Power sharing in the North is finished. Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...
A majority of people want power sharing to work. The politicians are failing to make it work.
Where is the majority for joint authority?
Time to get back to government and quit running
Not so sure. I think the majority of nationalists couldnt give a toss about stormont at this stage.
On your last point, how do you propose that? Sitting down and agreeing a compromise........?
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
Quote from: HiMucker on February 14, 2018, 10:27:55 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:16:34 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
Adams was right. They just can't cope with equality. Power sharing in the North is finished. Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...
A majority of people want power sharing to work. The politicians are failing to make it work.
Where is the majority for joint authority?
Time to get back to government and quit running
Not so sure. I think the majority of nationalists couldnt give a toss about stormont at this stage.
On your last point, how do you propose that? Sitting down and agreeing a compromise........?
Certainly a majority of people and of nationalists I deal with want it to work. The alternative is direct rule. The politicians are the only ones with an appetite for that. There are no other alternatives.
SF and DUP could go back to government tomorrow. The absence of agreement on an ILA stops there being an ILA. It doesn't stop there being an agreement on schools, hospitals and infrastructure.
Those who seriously want to put themselves forward for leadership don't get to run away from all issues because they don't agree on one.
To progress the ILA debate publish the proposal.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
Prior to the next election in RoI SF need to set out their position. They aim to be the largest party in RoU. If they need the support of other parties to form a government and they disagree with those parties on a single issue during the life of the parliament will they step away from all government responsibility? How do the propose the country should be run in this scenario?
It's an obvious question
SF know unionists won't agree to their demands, which gives them more reason to abandon Stormont and to push for a UI. Meanwhile, the rest of the population deal with the backlash of the shite these two squabbling morons create.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
There are MLAs who are not in the DUP or SF. There is nothing stopping the assembly being convened to discuss Brexit or even the budget.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 10:55:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
There are MLAs who are not in the DUP or SF. There is nothing stopping the assembly being convened to discuss Brexit or even the budget.
Maybe they should turn up. And not just discuss but vote, take decisions and form an executive . I'm not sure of the rules but I think that regrettably there are constraints preventing this
Universal Credit coming to SF & DUP strongholds in Belfast in the next few months, they are in no hurry
This is what happens when women are in charge!
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren't doing that. They shouldn't be getting paid.
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren't doing that. They shouldn't be getting paid.
I am not suggesting they should be getting full pay but why should they not be getting any pay for operating a full time constituency service? Scrap their pay and that constituency service goes into the same dustbin as the executive went into. Scrapping the pay in total is just a silly, populist amd counter productive argument.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren't doing that. They shouldn't be getting paid.
I am not suggesting they should be getting full pay but why should they not be getting any pay for operating a full time constituency service? Scrap their pay and that constituency service goes into the same dustbin as the executive went into. Scrapping the pay in total is just a silly, populist amd counter productive argument.
There's any amount of councillors covering the same area, the people can go to them. Or go to the MP
Quote from: red hander on February 14, 2018, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren't doing that. They shouldn't be getting paid.
I am not suggesting they should be getting full pay but why should they not be getting any pay for operating a full time constituency service? Scrap their pay and that constituency service goes into the same dustbin as the executive went into. Scrapping the pay in total is just a silly, populist amd counter productive argument.
There's any amount of councillors covering the same area, the people can go to them. Or go to the MP
Indeed they can - if they want to limit the constituency service available to them to relying on part time councillors or to one MP per constituency dealing with everything on his/her own. I have no issue with MLAs receiving a salary (albeit reduced) for doing full time constituency work. Why should any public worker be expected to work full time for free?
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:05:19 PM
Universal Credit coming to SF & DUP strongholds in Belfast in the next few months, they are in no hurry
That is it in a nutshell minder. Alot of hurt coming so if they are not in office its not there fault. We also have brexit which SF are hoping will be bad so it will harden the support for a UI
Quote from: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 12:03:10 AM
That is it in a nutshell minder. Alot of hurt coming so if they are not in office its not there fault. We also have brexit which SF are hoping will be bad so it will harden the support for a UI
If the British renege on the pre Christmas agreement re Brexit then they will have overturned the entire political dialogue since 1985 and you are in border poll territory.
Brexit may well lead to some other unfavourable adjustments, and the DUP will have been responsible for these.
If the Brits are reneging on everything they'll hardly agree to a "border poll"????
The best thing that could happen is T May fucks the whole thing up in Europe and gets the road. The DUP would then lose all the power they currently possess
It is really just a countdown on that.
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what's happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2018, 07:54:39 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what's happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages
Yes and stopping MLA's pay won't change that problem. Same people will get voted back in.
Quote from: sensethetone on February 15, 2018, 08:14:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2018, 07:54:39 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what's happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages
Yes and stopping MLA's pay won't change that problem. Same people will get voted back in.
My problem with Stormont is that as far as the DUP are concerned there is no downside to pulling the plug. They're more than happy to be ruled from Westminster and May's supply and confidence agreement.
But god forbid if the Tories pushed through same sex marriage and the ILA from Westminster and then again the DUP would have their Lundy to blame and appease their christian right and the knuckle draggers.
Eastwood was adamant that the Southern government was meant to have a say "in the spirit" of the agreement, but I can't see that happening although it may put a rocket up the DUP's arses.
On another note Simon Hamilton (who's a much more accomplished operator than Arlene) when pushed on the ILA act kept reiterating that the ILA was not acceptable to unionists and when pushed again on Radio 6 counties as to what the DUP had counter offered seemed to have no response.
Evidently the DUP were not going to have an ILA even if the Shinners were prepared to allow a standalone Ulster Scots act as part of the bigger deal.
As already stated there's a big push in unionism to deny any form of Irish culture being expressed in the wee six. They don't even like us taigs not using the term Northern Ireland for this place FFS.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450
Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2018, 07:54:39 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what's happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages
I think it's all down to how the British do things. They tend to polarise. It is either or. Never the optimal mix. Same with languages. There was English or nothing. Always the same going back to Henry 8.
NI would be better off with a federal structure. Let Orange and green run their own affairs. No need for an ILA in Orange areas. No need for parades in Green areas.
Focus on potential. Not on polarisation.
NI has a very interesting cultural mix that could be leveraged but it needs a different setting.
Probably the best remark from a pundit last night came from David McCann who pointed out that unionist politicians had form when it came to refusing to make small concessions that would make huge differences in diffusing or improving the situation but which would be seen in hindsight as huge mistakes.
For example, a few simple, timely concessions in late 1968 to the original Civil Rights protests and not using state force to attempt to break them would have changed history completely. They claimed the Civil Rights movement was the IRA attempting to overthrow the state and had to be put down. We now know that only Declan Kearney believes that nonsense.
Unionist politicians always manage to revert to some bogeyman in their refusal to lose their unionist hegemony that exists purely within their own psyche. Unionist politicians cannot move on in their own minds despite the majority of the PUL population being very far down the road from them.
Unionism is just buying itself some time by continuing to say no but the anger from nationalists is palpable after yesterdays latest collapse. Arlene Foster has reawakened nationalism in a way that Paisley and Robinson failed to do and nationalists are just fed up to the back teeth of being forced to accept attempted unionist dominance and sneering.
You would also think that Jim Allister is on a retainer from Stephen Nolan or how is an insular thinking backward bigot like him given so much air time.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 09:25:28 AM
Unionism is just buying itself some time by continuing to say no but the anger from nationalists is palpable after yesterdays latest collapse. Arlene Foster has reawakened nationalism in a way that Paisley and Robinson failed to do and nationalists are just fed up to the back teeth of being forced to accept attempted unionist dominance and sneering.
You would also think that Jim Allister is on a retainer from Stephen Nolan or how is an insular thinking backward bigot like him given so much air time.
Allister is on Nolan for the simple reason that you just proved. He stokes the fires, causes anger/reaction and people to comment on him/Nolan thus keeping Nolan relevant. Ignore/turn off Nolan, best thing I've did in years. I haven't watched Nolan in around 2 years but I could tell you exactly how the show went last night.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid
same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
They are still providing a full constituency service.
They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
Your right. Let each MLA submit a monthly list of achievements for their constituents and we will work out a way of paying them a rate for each achievement
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:05:19 PM
Universal Credit coming to SF & DUP strongholds in Belfast in the next few months, they are in no hurry
That is it in a nutshell minder. Alot of hurt coming so if they are not in office its not there fault. We also have brexit which SF are hoping will be bad so it will harden the support for a UI
The worse the brexit deal is for RoI the more likely Irexit becomes. Which hardly weakens ties with U.K.
Quote from: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
That seems to be the way of it
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 09:22:32 AM
Probably the best remark from a pundit last night came from David McCann who pointed out that unionist politicians had form when it came to refusing to make small concessions that would make huge differences in diffusing or improving the situation but which would be seen in hindsight as huge mistakes.
For example, a few simple, timely concessions in late 1968 to the original Civil Rights protests and not using state force to attempt to break them would have changed history completely. They claimed the Civil Rights movement was the IRA attempting to overthrow the state and had to be put down. We now know that only Declan Kearney believes that nonsense.
Unionist politicians always manage to revert to some bogeyman in their refusal to lose their unionist hegemony that exists purely within their own psyche. Unionist politicians cannot move on in their own minds despite the majority of the PUL population being very far down the road from them.
Excellent post. When it comes to the crunch unionist leaders basically do not see nationalists as equal. They cannot give up their hegemony.
The sands of time are working against them big time though. They need a different direction but are utterly incapable of doing anything about it.
Quote from: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450
Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...
You gotta love the Newsletter;
"The divorce is a "grim milestone for Northern Ireland", it says, but a "necessary" one.
Sinn Féin has "greatly destabilised" the region and "fuelled grievance among young nationalists".
The newspaper accuses republicans of hypocrisy, saying: "[They] hound Arlene Foster no matter what she says, yet behave in a far more disrespectful way than Mrs Foster has ever done.""
Quote from: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450
Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...
You gotta love the Newsletter;
"The divorce is a "grim milestone for Northern Ireland", it says, but a "necessary" one.
Sinn Féin has "greatly destabilised" the region and "fuelled grievance among young nationalists".
The newspaper accuses republicans of hypocrisy, saying: "[They] hound Arlene Foster no matter what she says, yet behave in a far more disrespectful way than Mrs Foster has ever done.""
Never expect anything of a pig but a grunt
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Quote from: Ty4Sam on February 15, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 09:25:28 AM
Unionism is just buying itself some time by continuing to say no but the anger from nationalists is palpable after yesterdays latest collapse. Arlene Foster has reawakened nationalism in a way that Paisley and Robinson failed to do and nationalists are just fed up to the back teeth of being forced to accept attempted unionist dominance and sneering.
You would also think that Jim Allister is on a retainer from Stephen Nolan or how is an insular thinking backward bigot like him given so much air time.
Allister is on Nolan for the simple reason that you just proved. He stokes the fires, causes anger/reaction and people to comment on him/Nolan thus keeping Nolan relevant. Ignore/turn off Nolan, best thing I've did in years. I haven't watched Nolan in around 2 years but I could tell you exactly how the show went last night.
I've given up on Nolan now as well, and I actually think that show is part of the problem here. Its main objective seem to be to polarise people as much as possible in order to create outrage and therefore ratings.
Jim Allisters party got around 3000 votes in the last election, yet he is constantly on Nolan as if he has any sort of mandate. The same with Bryson.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.
I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
I agree about the language but it has now developed from that because the DUP and UUP have fallen into the usual trap where they cannot hold themselves back in denying that over 40% of the population claim to subscribe to a non-British culture that they share with the majority of people living on the island.
So deep have unionist politicians become ensnared in this trap that they cannot see how 'unBritish' they are behaving in denying to the people of their own region of the UK the same rights as those given to the people of Wales and Scotland in terms of indigenous language and to all people in the UK in terms of same sex marriage. Yet SF have failed to bring this hypocrisy to the UK public and politicians because it suits them to be the party of protest and they need a focus.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
So the unionists have wore you down and the white flag is up. My kids speak better Irish then me so I don't think it's dying. My kids are more politically informed than me at their age. They are the age were they could see a UI. Hang in there buddy the future is bright.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
So the unionists have wore you down and the white flag is up. My kids speak better Irish then me so I don't think it's dying. My kids are more politically informed than me at their age. They are the age were they could see a UI. Hang in there buddy the future is bright.
I still cannot see how any of this is going to help a UI?
Did anyone see Nolan last night. Did we Jamie hint that Arlene was about to do a deal and was told by gwass whoots unionists that she wouldn't be?
I almost got the feeling that it might have been loyalists telling her!
Quote from: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
Doesnt sound like very strong leadership
Quote from: lurganblue on February 15, 2018, 10:27:05 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
Doesnt sound like very strong leadership
Doesn't sound like leadership at all.
Arlene will be gone shortly for a died in the wool East Coast Unionist. She's giving it a good shot, but they just don't trust her.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
second time in 3 months this has happened to Foster. Not leadership material. Maybe Fermanagh farming chair or something
the MPs calling the shots now, Arlene ultimate puppet leader.
they dont seem to realise that their little bit of power in westminster will be so short lived
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
You're everything that I find embarrassing and shameful about many in the south: an attitude of apathy for a big chunk of their own country and an attitude of open contempt for any suggestion that our native language (arguably the most intrinsic part of our cultural heritage) is worthy of protection and even an attitude that suggests a desire for the language to just die. I honestly just cannot comprehend the mentality.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Who are these "most people"?
Certainly in the South where people have learned Irish for 14 years it wouldn't be a big step to massively increase the number of speakers with the right approach and encouragement. People have a lot more Irish ability than they think
All they need is confidence and encouragement
Maybe we should use the British tactic on this one.
Instead of asking for an Irish Language act just starve everyone who speaks English until they agree to speak Irish. Would that still work?
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O'Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn't sell it to their wider party and base.
Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
second time in 3 months this has happened to Foster. Not leadership material. Maybe Fermanagh farming chair or something
Plus dragging poor Theresa over on Monday set an expectation that Arlene couldn't deliver.
Shitting on Theresa from a great height twice in a few months can't be good for relationships.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
Do they realise that no one on the "mainland" gives a shite about them?
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
The guardian !!!!
when one hears the bluest of blueshirts Coveney basically saying SF had delivered a working deal it really sums up how dysfunctional the DUP are
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
Gregory the bollox was on Radio Ulster earlier. He is a hateful hoor of a man but he generally comes across as pretty articulate despite the bile he is normal spouting. HOwever, I thought he definitely seemed more defensive and rattled today.
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.
I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
touchy touchy
I teach Irish, I'm a fluent speaker and I can see it dying before my eyes in the likes of connemara, mayo, kerry gaeltachts
the gaelscoil movement is a giant fallacy
majority of kids who go to gaelscoils have no meanscoil to attend afterwards - complete waste
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools
then there is nowhere to actually use the language. where can you use it?
the main reason ye seem to be mad into it up north is because it makes ye different to the other crowd
One wonders why you waste your time teaching it if you believe its a complete waste - sounds like a good way to spend the majority of your waking hours
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:16:17 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools
My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.
I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
touchy touchy
I teach Irish, I'm a fluent speaker and I can see it dying before my eyes in the likes of connemara, mayo, kerry gaeltachts
the gaelscoil movement is a giant fallacy
majority of kids who go to gaelscoils have no meanscoil to attend afterwards - complete waste
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools
then there is nowhere to actually use the language. where can you use it?
the main reason ye seem to be mad into it up north is because it makes ye different to the other crowd
Sounds like your real gripe is the Irish Language is losing interest in the south. If it's not the case up here that's because we hate the other ones. Wow you would fit right in up here with a chip on you like that. Maybe your boring the S..t out of them
Quote from: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
One wonders why you waste your time teaching it if you believe its a complete waste - sounds like a good way to spend the majority of your waking hours
as a primary teacher I have to teach Irish
kids and parents care less and less about the language every year
the gaelscoils in many towns down here would in theory be taking in the 'cream' of middle class families so it is then worrying when their literacy scores are below average (though this info is not released to the public)
children basically have to relearn all vocab and terms in every SESE subject, maths, music
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 11:04:53 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
Do they realise that no one on the "mainland" gives a shite about them?
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2018, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:16:17 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools
My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
My experience of children taught through Irish medium is that they have a GCSE and A level by their 3rd year in secondary school
Quote from: ashman on February 15, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
The guardian !!!!
"...the quiet truth about Northern Ireland. It is a place where most people identify as neither unionist nor nationalist."Bullsh*t
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
Quote from: lurganblue on February 15, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: ashman on February 15, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland
DUP getting hammered in the English press
The guardian !!!!
"...the quiet truth about Northern Ireland. It is a place where most people identify as neither unionist nor nationalist."
Bullsh*t
Yeah some of it way off the mark in fairness
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Rois, would your sister's school get many pupils from Irish medium primary schools? English doesn't seem to cause problems the same way maths does, certainly not initially. Pupils tend to find the terminology for maths difficult to learn, having never heard the word isosceles etc before.
Can understand that re: maths. Not sure of the numbers these days and perhaps the growth and bedding in of the meanscoil in Belfast over the last couple of decades has meant fewer now attend, but she has certainly had a stream of such pupils over the years (she has been in OLSPK for 20 yrs now, give or take a maternity leave or 3). We have had a number of discussions on this at different times (and not just about Irish speakers, but other bilingual students).
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2018, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Rois, would your sister's school get many pupils from Irish medium primary schools? English doesn't seem to cause problems the same way maths does, certainly not initially. Pupils tend to find the terminology for maths difficult to learn, having never heard the word isosceles etc before.
Can understand that re: maths. Not sure of the numbers these days and perhaps the growth and bedding in of the meanscoil in Belfast over the last couple of decades has meant fewer now attend, but she has certainly had a stream of such pupils over the years (she has been in OLSPK for 20 yrs now, give or take a maternity leave or 3). We have had a number of discussions on this at different times (and not just about Irish speakers, but other bilingual students).
Getting off topic here, but would it be a case that the bilingual students pick up other languages easier at school?
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/sinn-fein-dup-deal-crashed-eamonn-mallie/
The usual utter abdication of leadership within unionism
The last line is a load of absolute horseshit tho - it wasn't the unionist people who scared off the DUP
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: stew on February 15, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north
its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.
I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
touchy touchy
I teach Irish, I'm a fluent speaker and I can see it dying before my eyes in the likes of connemara, mayo, kerry gaeltachts
the gaelscoil movement is a giant fallacy
majority of kids who go to gaelscoils have no meanscoil to attend afterwards - complete waste
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools
then there is nowhere to actually use the language. where can you use it?
the main reason ye seem to be mad into it up north is because it makes ye different to the other crowd
I've heard some give out about no ILA even though they can't speak a word of Irish. It's all about attacking the DUP.
Slaughtneil seem to be doing things the right way. Only because of their onfield success have we probably become aware of their love of the language. Not sure if they have road signs or if they converse in Irish with each other all the time, but they obviously started with the love of it rather than learning it just to piss the other side off.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
I'm not claiming that everybody in NI is British but the people I was referring to undoubtedly are
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 15, 2018, 03:03:15 PM
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2018, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:16:17 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools
My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
My experience of children taught through Irish medium is that they have a GCSE and A level by their 3rd year in secondary school
Which schools are putting kids through A Level Irish by 3rd year? That's not a great move IMO.
Why not? What use is putting them in a first year irish class which is of no benefit when they can go to a gcse/a-level class instead? It was the same for a student that had spent most of their childhood in France. An extra gcse/a level in French with little to no effort
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit, once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it's doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450
Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...
You gotta love the Newsletter;
"The divorce is a "grim milestone for Northern Ireland", it says, but a "necessary" one.
Sinn Féin has "greatly destabilised" the region and "fuelled grievance among young nationalists".
The newspaper accuses republicans of hypocrisy, saying: "[They] hound Arlene Foster no matter what she says, yet behave in a far more disrespectful way than Mrs Foster has ever done.""
Never expect anything of a pig but a grunt
Ah, the North Down bigot Ben Lowry. He was on Talkback this morning and he flat out blamed the Shinners alone for the state of the health service. Maybe William Crawley will get round to asking this little oxygen thief why he left - or should that be why he was asked to leave - the Belfast Telegraph...
Heard that - he came across like a right p***k
You should let us all know - pm me if you cant broadcast it
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it's doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
From the man previously "getting anal about the whole thing".
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it's doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
During that belated confession you do realise you were still typing??
Quote from: michaelg on February 15, 2018, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it's doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
From the man previously "getting anal about the whole thing".
Yeah fight fire with fire
The different between Great Britain and Britain FFs
So there was agreement on ILA but not SSM according to McDonald
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit, once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
Finchley? We did a refurb on a house in Finchley. More Star of Davids then Union Jacks.
But the grub they laid on was gorgeous.
They could have taken it out, removed petition of concern and the same sex marriage thing would go through.
No petition of concern and dup struggle too which i am sure they know.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 06:47:33 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 15, 2018, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can't have an Irish act. It's Crazy
You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it's doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
From the man previously "getting anal about the whole thing".
Yeah fight fire with fire
The different between Great Britain and Britain FFs
You still don't get it do you?
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
Quote from: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 07:38:50 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 15, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 08:24:31 PMIt Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.
That has been speculated on all right.
Quote from: red hander on February 15, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 15, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 08:24:31 PMIt Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.
That has been speculated on all right.
What would you know about it? Are they allowing you access to newspapers now?
Quote from: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 07:38:50 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
No provisional agreement but maybe there was an official one
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2018, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 07:38:50 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
No provisional agreement but maybe there was an official one
That's a sticky situation you are getting in to
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed to be shown down south. Who does that suit.
DUP obviously feel an election would serve them better as SF would probably not be able to repeat such a successful campaign straight off the bat. They're in perfect position to mop up unionist concerns about the strength of the nationalist vote and tbh unionist paranoia hasn't been at such a peak for 20 years I'd say. This is mainly due to antagonism around brexit and the border amongst other issues.
They're judging that a fresh election would probably strengthen their seat count and the only other alternative to that is Westminster in which they now hold sway would take over the reins in NI. They may be cnuts but they're not stupid.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 10:39:57 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed to be shown down south. Who does that suit.
Condescending talk to free-staters is a long-cherished unionist past time.
As for RTÉ, papers not refusing ink is the anaiogy that springs to mind.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 10:39:57 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed to be shown down south. Who does that suit.
It's because she refuses to speak to the BBC so the BBC uses RTE to get the video.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 15, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 15, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 08:24:31 PMIt Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.
That has been speculated on all right.
What would you know about it? Are they allowing you access to newspapers now?
I'm still getting over the shock that someone in Finchley would let a complete arsehole like you into their house. They're probably still trying to get the shit out of the carpet
It's just took an even bigger turn, Jamie Bryson is heading to Westminster
Is no secret DUP quietly meet with Bryson during negotiations... madness but that's where it is at.
Bryson another unemployable waste of space!! How this man even gets talk time on nolan show and radio is beyond me
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 11:18:58 PM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.
I think he has Allister, Bryson and Nelson McCausland on speed dial. The more extremist the better for Nolans ratings which is his sole concern, that's why he engages with them constantly.
Quote from: red hander on February 15, 2018, 11:02:09 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 15, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 15, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 08:24:31 PMIt Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.
That has been speculated on all right.
What would you know about it? Are they allowing you access to newspapers now?
I'm still getting over the shock that someone in Finchley would let a complete arsehole like you into their house. They're probably still trying to get the shit out of the carpet
You mean you are getting over the shock that you are now down to three nappies a day
Quote from: yellowcard on February 16, 2018, 12:30:33 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 11:18:58 PM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.
I think he has Allister, Bryson and Nelson McCausland on speed dial. The more extremist the better for Nolans ratings which is his sole concern, that's why he engages with them constantly.
When I see either of these bigots on Nolan - I switch off they repeat the same mantra time and again. Bryson going to Westminster indicates how bad things have become. Would stopping the salaries at this point even have any effect?
Quote from: BenDover on February 16, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 16, 2018, 12:30:33 AM
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 11:18:58 PM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.
I think he has Allister, Bryson and Nelson McCausland on speed dial. The more extremist the better for Nolans ratings which is his sole concern, that's why he engages with them constantly.
When I see either of these bigots on Nolan - I switch off they repeat the same mantra time and again. Bryson going to Westminster indicates how bad things have become. Would stopping the salaries at this point even have any effect?
What's Jamiwe going to do over in Westminster?
Quote from: johnneycool on February 16, 2018, 09:27:10 AM
What's Jamiwe going to do over in Westminster?
Just heard him on Nolan there now. He responded to a public invite for submissions on finding new and innovative solutions to devolved government here on behalf of some unionist group. To be fair to him, other people could have also responded and got an invite but didn't. I think it is sheer coincidence that it has come up now.
As to his contribution, he will be arguing for a repeal of the GFA. Yep, very innovative and welcoming. Oh and he refused to condemn loyalist paramilitaries. What a peach.
Christ. When who lets that gimp Bryson out? FFS - he's been on Prime Time recently. What a jumped-up little p***k with no mandate for his ravings.
Hate to think the ballbag would have got some of my license money to appear on RTE.
As for Foster. Sweet Jesus. When the Lord made her he broke the mould. Thankfully.
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 10:45:23 PM
DUP obviously feel an election would serve them better as SF would probably not be able to repeat such a successful campaign straight off the bat. They're in perfect position to mop up unionist concerns about the strength of the nationalist vote and tbh unionist paranoia hasn't been at such a peak for 20 years I'd say. This is mainly due to antagonism around brexit and the border amongst other issues.
They're judging that a fresh election would probably strengthen their seat count and the only other alternative to that is Westminster in which they now hold sway would take over the reins in NI. They may be cnuts but they're not stupid.
funnily enough I think the shinners mightn't be too disappointed by an election, the way the irish language has been dished by the unionists will give them a fair hand to play with.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 10:39:57 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed to be shown down south. Who does that suit.
It's because she refuses to speak to the BBC so the BBC uses RTE to get the video.
She is in cahoots with Mickey Harte. Arlene talks directly to the RTE sports Department.
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 10:39:57 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed to be shown down south. Who does that suit.
It's because she refuses to speak to the BBC so the BBC uses RTE to get the video.
She is in cahoots with Mickey Harte. Arlene talks directly to the RTE sports Department.
She'd do well on Ear To The Ground, them's big ears.
Bilingual signs are a threat to Britishness!
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27972742_10155745860339064_2506931441564640669_n.jpg?oh=3c120ca96fd18c4a35730b79e427be10&oe=5B0F6449)
Sort those picture sizes out!
everyone should print them out and send them to Arlene
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 17, 2018, 10:08:24 AM
everyone should print them out and send them to Arlene
Selah.
Bean O Foster
Inis Ceithleann
Co. Fearmanach should get her
Probably wouldn't.
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
Agreed,
she couldn't get it through with the knuckle draggers like Gregory and co not to mention Jamwie and the loyalist gwass woots.
She'll be thrown under the bus by someone else in the party soon enough.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 12:24:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
Agreed,
she couldn't get it through with the knuckle draggers like Gregory and co not to mention Jamwie and the loyalist gwass woots.
She'll be thrown under the bus by someone else in the party soon enough.
Problem is who ever takes over faces the same sh1t. It all come down to keeping the votes.
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree.
Gregory Campbell was missing from talks for 10 days, because he was ill.
An agreement was reached. Gregory came back on the scene again and the agreement was scuppered.
What's the correlation here?
Quote from: ziggysego on February 19, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree.
Gregory Campbell was missing from talks for 10 days, because he was ill.
An agreement was reached. Gregory came back on the scene again and the agreement was scuppered.
What's the correlation here?
I can't think of another person who is filled with as much hate and contempt for anything Irish or nationalist than this man.
Ian Paisley sr of old wouldn't compare to him
He would be behind a Coup d'état no problem if it was a compromise with nationalist for the greater good.
Gregory has a Catholic son in law!
Quote from: The Trap on February 19, 2018, 01:17:12 PM
Gregory has a Catholic son in law!
irrelevant, it is a question of national identity not religion.
Quote from: ONARAGGATIP on February 19, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: The Trap on February 19, 2018, 01:17:12 PM
Gregory has a Catholic son in law!
irrelevant, it is a question of national identity not religion.
I'd say he gets the same treatment as Tommy Tiernan's character in Derry Girls!!
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree with this. Look at the way Adams and McGuinness led republicans.
Provos stood down
Decommision
Sitting in stormont
Acceptance of principle of consent
Acceptance of partition
Adminsterting British rule under the union flag at the gates stormont.
All sold as 'stepping stones' to ultimate victory.
ie. defeat dressed up as victory.
Unionists leaders can't even deliver British rights to people here for fear of feeling less British
Fionnaula O Connor once wrote that republicans are great at making their people think they have won when they have lost with the opposite being the case for unionists.
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree with this. Look at the way Adams and McGuinness led republicans.
Provos stood down
Decommision
Sitting in stormont
Acceptance of principle of consent
Acceptance of partition
Adminsterting British rule under the union flag at the gates stormont.
All sold as 'stepping stones' to ultimate victory.
ie. defeat dressed up as victory.
Unionists leaders can't even deliver British rights to people here for fear of feeling less British
Fionnaula O Connor once wrote that republicans are great at making their people think they have won when they have lost with the opposite being the case for unionists.
Maybe that's all Arlene needs to do, sign the agreement and then get a black taxi up the Shankill tooting the horn and waving the flag.
Quote from: MoChara on February 19, 2018, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................
I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.
Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.
McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree with this. Look at the way Adams and McGuinness led republicans.
Provos stood down
Decommision
Sitting in stormont
Acceptance of principle of consent
Acceptance of partition
Adminsterting British rule under the union flag at the gates stormont.
All sold as 'stepping stones' to ultimate victory.
ie. defeat dressed up as victory.
Unionists leaders can't even deliver British rights to people here for fear of feeling less British
Fionnaula O Connor once wrote that republicans are great at making their people think they have won when they have lost with the opposite being the case for unionists.
Maybe that's all Arlene needs to do, sign the agreement and then get a black taxi up the Shankill tooting the horn and waving the flag.
;D A Unionist leader wouldn't even know where to get a black taxi!
https://twitter.com/conormaskey/status/965635949869887495
;D
You guys need to listen more to Ruth Dudley Edwards. I'll summarise for you:
1) Every Unionist is a saint, and bend over backwards to accommodate roman catholics
2) Roman catholic should appreciate the freedom they have in northern ireland
3) Gerry Adams is the devil incarnate
4) All Sinn Fein voters are numbskull sheep
Quote from: Orior on February 19, 2018, 09:13:02 PM
You guys need to listen more to Ruth Dudley Edwards. I'll summarise for you:
1) Every Unionist is a saint, and bend over backwards to accommodate roman catholics
2) Roman catholic should appreciate the freedom they have in northern ireland
3) Gerry Adams is the devil incarnate
4) All Sinn Fein voters are numbskull sheep
Sounds like syfurus
I don't listen to jackeens
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 07:10:45 PM
https://twitter.com/conormaskey/status/965635949869887495
;D
Class it's almost like she a big self serving eejit ;D
Quote from: MoChara on February 20, 2018, 08:11:23 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 07:10:45 PM
https://twitter.com/conormaskey/status/965635949869887495
;D
Class it's almost like she a big self serving eejit ;D
It will be interesting to hear her backtrack out of that one
I rarely agree with Malachi O'Doherty but it's hard to counter this analysis of where unionism is now:
=====================================================================================
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/union-can-only-be-saved-by-showing-respect-for-irishness-malachi-odoherty-36625353.html
Arguably the stupidest mistake made by a unionist was Gregory Campbell's speech to his party conference in which he said that the DUP would treat Sinn Fein's wish-list like toilet paper. I can imagine people in the Sinn Fein strategy team watching that and saying: Gotcha!
Campbell had broken one of the simpler rules of politics - never say never. He committed his party to never conceding anything to Sinn Fein on the Irish language and treating with contempt their aspiration to have an Irish Language Act. From that moment on Sinn Fein had it in its power to humiliate the DUP by getting it to climb down from that proud boast, or to break it. This fits with the DUP's understanding of the Trojan Horse theory expounded by Gerry Adams, by which the equality agenda is presented as a tactic to undermine unionism.
But the thing about Trojan Horses is that the gates of Troy have to be opened for them. And Campbell and others in the DUP leadership effectively opened the gates, invited the horse to come in and walk around, presuming they'd be able to chase it away again. Because, by the logic of the Good Friday Agreement and power-sharing, Sinn Fein needs the DUP as much as the DUP needs Sinn Fein. This has been a calamitous misreading in the situation by unionists.
Sinn Fein is a bigger and more extensive party than the DUP. Yes, the DUP vote thrives on contention every bit as much as the Sinn Fein vote does. The logic of that is that contention serves both well but ultimately drives them apart. Therefore, in time both have to get on. Both lose if they don't. But the DUP loses more than Sinn Fein does. The DUP, if it loses Stormont, keeps six councils of the 11 in Northern Ireland and 10 seats in Westminster. The seats in Westminster have huge value for now because the DUP is indispensable to shoring up the Tory Government. But that advantage could be gone by Christmas and might not come back for another 20 years. The party currently has a seat in the European Parliament but is determined to be rid of it. So, without Stormont the DUP will have very little.
Contrast that with Sinn Fein's position. It has a clutch of councils in the west of Northern Ireland. It has seven seats in Westminster but doesn't take them. It will continue after Brexit to have representation in the European Parliament through the Irish Republic, where it also has councillors, TDs and senators. Compare Sinn Fein's position in the Dail with the DUP's in Westminster. Currently Sinn Fein is polling at 20% of the vote down there. It stands a good chance of being in government; not a great chance, but not a negligible one. What prospect is there that the DUP will have seats at the Cabinet table in Westminster? None. It will be outside looking in if one day a British Secretary of State is sitting down with a Sinn Fein Tanaiste to discuss repairing devolution. Couldn't happen?
So, while it looks as if we have a deadlock that damages both parties equally, Sinn Fein has such a broad base and so many platforms that it can more easily sustain the loss of Stormont than the DUP can. This hasn't sunk in with people who still think in terms of majority and minority communities in Northern Ireland and always calculate on the assumption that unionism has more clout than nationalism. That's how it used to be. Sinn Fein does not only have more platforms than the DUP, it has a hand to play. It will now focus on opposing direct rule and Brexit. And it knows also that these positions will appeal beyond the voter base.
Northern nationalists do not like the DUP. They feel that the DUP gave no consideration to protecting their Irish identity inside the European Union, the one structure that gave it parity with Britishness. And since the border is now back at the heart of political dispute, the last thing many nationalists want is for the DUP to hold power in Northern Ireland or be in a position to represent Northern Ireland in talks with Europe. And this is bigger than Sinn Fein. People who will never vote Sinn Fein are turning their backs on power-sharing because they don't want to be even part-governed by the DUP.
So what can the DUP do to win them back, for win them back it must? The Union is not secure if only the Protestant community wants it, because the demographic shift is rapidly eroding a Protestant majority. The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it. And that was not such a hard job until very recently. At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state. A civic unionism might have acknowledged that silent assent. But a unionism which pegged its commitment to evangelical religion and the monarchy was never going to bring significant numbers of that community out of the closet to declare their preference for the United Kingdom over a united Ireland. There was a time when unionism could indulge the fantasy that it was a bulwark against religious heresy, when the Orange banner symbolised loyalty.
But what is a unionist to be loyal to now? To a retrenched evangelical culture which can lose them the Union, or to the Union itself, which it can only hold onto with confidence by including Catholics and respecting Irishness? And even that might be a hopeless pipe-dream now, depending on the outworking of Brexit. If it goes badly for British-Irish relations, then it will go badly for nationalist-unionist relations in Northern Ireland. This isn't to say that there can be a united Ireland very soon, though more people are now talking up that prospect than before. I suspect that if Labour comes to power, direct rule will take a colouring much more to Sinn Fein's taste. I think Corbyn might prove perfectly obliging when asked for a border poll.
Though if his own prospects fall on a refusal of Sinn Fein to take their seats, he'd hardly be daft enough to think he owed them favours.
Sinn Fein does lose out after last week's collapse. The LGBT community now sees that giving their vote to Sinn Fein got them nothing, and if there is an election they may pay for the betrayal of those hopes. But it is unionism that seems bereft of a vision today. It is unionism that must rethink its entire prospects if it is to have any significance at all.
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
SF especially among their young activists seem to be making a massive push in this sector of the electorate.
Rules of the plantation were that natives dropped Irish and carried out business in the invading tongue.
Seems like 400 years later the plantation is still an ongoing process.
Quote from: NAG1 on February 21, 2018, 12:10:15 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
SF especially among their young activists seem to be making a massive push in this sector of the electorate.
It needs to be more than hash tags and billboards though (all non unionist parties are the same btw), when hardy came to hardy SF seemed comfortable enough with no SSM
Redundance of petition of concern in reformed stormont meant it was pretty much guaranteed to go through anyway, no?
Quote from: haranguerer on February 21, 2018, 02:23:08 PM
Redundance of petition of concern in reformed stormont meant it was pretty much guaranteed to go through anyway, no?
POC still exists. Needs backing from more than one party. So in theory the 28 DUPers plus 2 others could raise a POC against equal marriage.
Quote from: GJL on February 21, 2018, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 21, 2018, 02:23:08 PM
Redundance of petition of concern in reformed stormont meant it was pretty much guaranteed to go through anyway, no?
POC still exists. Needs backing from more than one party. So in theory the 28 DUPers plus 2 others could raise a POC against equal marriage.
Jim Allister pretty much a given
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.
This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it. And that was not such a hard job until very recently. At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."
Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.
Quote from: ned on February 21, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.
This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it. And that was not such a hard job until very recently. At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."
Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.
You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.
This is the mistake they made with Brexit by making the status quo chaotic.
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: ned on February 21, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.
This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it. And that was not such a hard job until very recently. At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."
Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.
You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.
The "middle ground" who would be nationalist with a small n and unionist with a small w will always be driven by economic realities.
An economically well off Catholic isn't going to suddenly insist on a border poll if all's well with the world and I think that's the point Malachi is trying to make.
Unionism/loyalism in its current trajectory is driving those people into the arms of the Shinners.
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: ned on February 21, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?
I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.
There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.
This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it. And that was not such a hard job until very recently. At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."
Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.
You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.
It's still a conclusion arrived at with no clear facts. "Content with the union" and supporting the status quo are different things. Has there ever been a poll regarding this? As I said plenty wrong with that article.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 04:14:59 PM
The "middle ground" who would be nationalist with a small n and unionist with a small w will always be driven by economic realities.
An economically well off Catholic isn't going to suddenly insist on a border poll if all's well with the world and I think that's the point Malachi is trying to make.
Unionism/loyalism in its current trajectory is driving those people into the arms of the Shinners.
Not quite the Shinners, Leo Varadkar, perhaps.
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Was it slurred? She looks to me like someone who's been hitting the sauce of late
Quote from: red hander on February 21, 2018, 06:04:09 PM
Was it slurred? She looks to me like someone who's been hitting the sauce of late
I'd say Theresa May must be tempted to knock a few back at this stage.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps >:(
We will move forward.*
*without anything relating to an irish identity about the place.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2018, 06:28:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps >:(
Doesn't really matter, she's an irrelevance, a mediocre solicitor from the sticks way out of her league with no discernible role now that Stormont is finito. If she doesn't throw the towel in, the findings of the RHI Inquiry will in all likelihood finish her, such was her ineptitude in the handling of that farce from the very start (not to mention the benefits accrued from it by members of her family in Fermanagh). As I said before, Brexit and demographics will sort the rest out for the Irish people of the putrid statelet ... tick tock, tick tock
We will move forward
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3c/05/ce/3c05ce76b9b3c6aac2edb2930d3c7bdd.jpg)
There are no preconditions on restoring power at stormont you know :o
Very good analysis by Denis Bradley
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/denis-bradley-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-unionism-1.3398989
"The Rev John Dunlop, once moderator of the Presbyterian Church, wrote more than 20 years ago: "We are a people who live behind spiritual, political and ecclesiastical ramparts. We behave like batsmen facing hostile fast bowling on an uneven pitch: more concerned to survive than to win the match; playing for a draw at best; always defensive; seldom taking the initiative."
He also said at the time of the IRA ceasefire that the unionist community was not ready, prepared or happy with the beginning peace. He believed it was psychologically prepared to endure the violence rather than engage with republicans."
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Very good analysis by Denis Bradley
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/denis-bradley-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-unionism-1.3398989
"The Rev John Dunlop, once moderator of the Presbyterian Church, wrote more than 20 years ago: "We are a people who live behind spiritual, political and ecclesiastical ramparts. We behave like batsmen facing hostile fast bowling on an uneven pitch: more concerned to survive than to win the match; playing for a draw at best; always defensive; seldom taking the initiative."
He also said at the time of the IRA ceasefire that the unionist community was not ready, prepared or happy with the beginning peace. He believed it was psychologically prepared to endure the violence rather than engage with republicans."
John Dunlop is a very astute man, and the unionist/loyalist parties sow fear and negativity to their constituents and they in turn, believe the lies and bile they are fed, perpetual negativity is the best they can hope for, how sad and ignorant is that!
Quote from: stew on February 22, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Very good analysis by Denis Bradley
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/denis-bradley-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-unionism-1.3398989
"The Rev John Dunlop, once moderator of the Presbyterian Church, wrote more than 20 years ago: "We are a people who live behind spiritual, political and ecclesiastical ramparts. We behave like batsmen facing hostile fast bowling on an uneven pitch: more concerned to survive than to win the match; playing for a draw at best; always defensive; seldom taking the initiative."
He also said at the time of the IRA ceasefire that the unionist community was not ready, prepared or happy with the beginning peace. He believed it was psychologically prepared to endure the violence rather than engage with republicans."
John Dunlop is a very astute man, and the unionist/loyalist parties sow fear and negativity to their constituents and they in turn, believe the lies and bile they are fed, perpetual negativity is the best they can hope for, how sad and ignorant is that!
Good analysis, the politicians control the working class by whipping them into a frenzy if they perceive of any threat to their Britishness. Then you have the Jim Allister show...errr sorry Stephen Nolan which is like Jerry Springer laden with extremist outside commentators such as Bryson, Dudley Edwards, McCaulsand etc and which has the sole aim of increasing its ratings irrespective of whether or not it stokes the flames or whips the masses up even more. Unionism has always needed to feel scared and under threat in order to survive, it is constantly in damage limitation mode simply trying to delay the inevitable end game for as long as possible.
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
The impact of Brexit could have a telling effect on this particular grouping, but to answer the question as to who should be doing the persuading it really has to be the sitting Irish Government of the day.
Neither FF and FG have grasped this particular nettle, only playing around the fringes of being true nationalists and allowing the Shinners to own this space.
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
Quote from: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
The impact of Brexit could have a telling effect on this particular grouping, but to answer the question as to who should be doing the persuading it really has to be the sitting Irish Government of the day.
Neither FF and FG have grasped this particular nettle, only playing around the fringes of being true nationalists and allowing the Shinners to own this space.
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
It would have to be planned to take advantage of the positives. The status of the unionist population would have to he clear. If it was done properly it could fly
Quote from: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.
QuoteIf either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.
Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
The impact of Brexit could have a telling effect on this particular grouping, but to answer the question as to who should be doing the persuading it really has to be the sitting Irish Government of the day.
Neither FF and FG have grasped this particular nettle, only playing around the fringes of being true nationalists and allowing the Shinners to own this space.
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
Agree with this 100%. Sinn Fein will always be the bogeymen with many Unionists so the onus is on the Irish government to persuade.
In this respect Miceal Martin and Fianna Fail, the supposedly traditional republican party in the south, have been a massive let down for northern nationalists. Bertie Ahern has his many detractors in the south for economic reasons but he was an excellent PM when it came to the peace process. Varadkar and Coveney to give them credit for FGers, have actually been more supportive of the plight of northern nationalists since they took over than Martin has been. I think he (Martin) has become so preoccupied by the threat of SF that he is coming across as just another traditional blue shirt. It's early days yet under Varadkar but both himself and Coveney have shown good leadership to date both in Brexit negotiations and in delivering clear and unambiguous statements in relation to the avoidance of direct rule.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.
QuoteIf either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.
Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
If the occupied territories are unproductive there must be a good bit of potential upside. It wouldn't be as wide a gap between east and west Germany.
The north would be a welcome counterbalance to Dublin.
I think the pension funds could be the key. They are earning nothing right now with serious tail Risk. If even half of the money could be redirected to real investment it could work for everyone
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 12:40:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.
QuoteIf either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.
Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
If the occupied territories are unproductive there must be a good bit of potential upside. It wouldn't be as wide a gap between east and west Germany.
The north would be a welcome counterbalance to Dublin.
I think the pension funds could be the key. They are earning nothing right now with serious tail Risk. If even half of the money could be redirected to real investment it could work for everyone
if there was a like button I would hit it.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 12:40:58 PM
If the occupied territories are unproductive there must be a good bit of potential upside. It wouldn't be as wide a gap between east and west Germany.
The north would be a welcome counterbalance to Dublin.
I think the pension funds could be the key. They are earning nothing right now with serious tail Risk. If even half of the money could be redirected to real investment it could work for everyone
I'd love to see some thorough research on what the difference actually is in detail, rather than generalities.
NI was a disaster economically for loyalist areas post the collapse of shipbuilding. No society can afford that level of deliberate waste. Very UK. Same as in Yorkshire.
This is also interesting
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/unionists-facing-a-perfect-storm-of-brexit-and-demographic-shift-36628756.html
Someone needs to tell DUPUDA.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.
This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.
QuoteIf either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.
Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
When have the Brits ever left a place in working order?
Canada was in decent shape when they abandoned it. Australia not too bad. They did a decent job in Hong Kong.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Absolutely spot on.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2018, 05:35:14 PM
Canada was in decent shape when they abandoned it. Australia not too bad. They did a decent job in Hong Kong.
I'd say the indigenous people of the first two examples would disagree with you, as for Hong Kong, was it not built on the spoils of opium? And the second they pulled out they, in that typically arrogant British way, complained about the lack of democracy, ignoring the glaring fact there was no democracy when those c***ts were exploiting the place for a hundred years
http://www.paulgosling.net/2018/02/the-economic-impact-of-an-all-island-economy-a-draft-report-for-consultation/
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Pretty much bang on. Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.
"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.
But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
Quote from: Franko on February 22, 2018, 06:45:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Pretty much bang on. Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.
"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.
But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
The stats in the Paul Gosling link are shocking
1. Since partition, the economic strength of the north and the south have gone into reverse. In 1920, 80% of Irish industrial output was in and around Belfast, with Belfast the largest city in the island of Ireland. The economy of the Republic is now four times larger than that of Northern Ireland, with industrial output ten times larger than that of Northern Ireland.
2. Average full time income per head in the Republic in 2016 was £40,403, compared to £25,999 in Northern Ireland. In other words, a worker in the Republic is typically paid half as much again as someone working in Northern Ireland.
3. Since the Good Friday Agreement, increased investment has flown to the Republic, rather than to Northern Ireland. Some £312bn of US investment has gone into the Republic since the GFA.
4. GVA – gross value added – per capita in the Republic in 2014 was €38,100, compared to €22,000 in Northern Ireland, just 57% of that in the south.
5. The Republic is much more globally and export focused than is Northern Ireland. As of 2015, exports accounted for 39.5% of Irish economic output, twice the level of Northern Ireland.
6. The Republic is Northern Ireland's main export market, accounting for 31% of international exports – a market likely to contract significantly following Brexit.
7. The economic performance gap between the Republic and Northern Ireland is widening. According to the latest Economic Eye study from accountancy firm EY, economic growth last year in the Republic was 4.9% and in Northern Ireland it was 1.4%.
8. The Republic is expected to increase its employment level, while Northern Ireland is predicted to lose jobs. EY predicts that the Republic will generate an additional 91,000 jobs by 2020 compared to 2016, whereas Northern Ireland will lose 3,500 jobs.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 22, 2018, 06:45:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Pretty much bang on. Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.
"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.
But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
The stats in the Paul Gosling link are shocking
1. Since partition, the economic strength of the north and the south have gone into reverse. In 1920, 80% of Irish industrial output was in and around Belfast, with Belfast the largest city in the island of Ireland. The economy of the Republic is now four times larger than that of Northern Ireland, with industrial output ten times larger than that of Northern Ireland.
2. Average full time income per head in the Republic in 2016 was £40,403, compared to £25,999 in Northern Ireland. In other words, a worker in the Republic is typically paid half as much again as someone working in Northern Ireland.
3. Since the Good Friday Agreement, increased investment has flown to the Republic, rather than to Northern Ireland. Some £312bn of US investment has gone into the Republic since the GFA.
4. GVA – gross value added – per capita in the Republic in 2014 was €38,100, compared to €22,000 in Northern Ireland, just 57% of that in the south.
5. The Republic is much more globally and export focused than is Northern Ireland. As of 2015, exports accounted for 39.5% of Irish economic output, twice the level of Northern Ireland.
6. The Republic is Northern Ireland's main export market, accounting for 31% of international exports – a market likely to contract significantly following Brexit.
7. The economic performance gap between the Republic and Northern Ireland is widening. According to the latest Economic Eye study from accountancy firm EY, economic growth last year in the Republic was 4.9% and in Northern Ireland it was 1.4%.
8. The Republic is expected to increase its employment level, while Northern Ireland is predicted to lose jobs. EY predicts that the Republic will generate an additional 91,000 jobs by 2020 compared to 2016, whereas Northern Ireland will lose 3,500 jobs.
It is not shocking at all, I regularly journey across the border and the difference in economic prosperity is fairly evident. The difference in wages between north and south is striking and the amount of tradesmen making the daily commute to Dublin from the north is huge. There must be no tradesmen in the south.
Even something as simple as infrastructure and roads, it is fairly shocking how the pendulum has swung firmly in favour of the south in the last 15/20 years. The north economically has massive potential upon reunification particularly along the east coast, but it is being completely stifled by the inability of entrenched unionists to see beyond a flag.
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
Quote from: GJL on February 23, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
Does anyone honestly believe Arlene knew about a deal and Jeffery didn't?
If she did she can't have long left as leader or the DUP don't rate Jeffery.
Quote from: Franko on February 22, 2018, 06:45:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Pretty much bang on. Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.
"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.
But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
I would say they're doing it pretty much right. That's not the issue though, the issue is that, given how far they have brought things, they'll never be accepted by unionists.
Nonetheless, SF will have to do the heavy lifting for another while, might as well be the lightning rod for all the unionist fury as half it, before some of the southern parties can come in, offer coalition or something else acceptable to unionists, and get the job done as a better alternative than dealing with SF. SF screwed in the moment of victory, but I guess that's politics.
Quote from: GJL on February 23, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
" a roasting " ?
Leave the rugby trial out of it
Quote from: yellowcard on February 22, 2018, 08:14:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 22, 2018, 06:45:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article
"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.
He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.
The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.
Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.
The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman's argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Pretty much bang on. Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.
"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.
But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
The stats in the Paul Gosling link are shocking
1. Since partition, the economic strength of the north and the south have gone into reverse. In 1920, 80% of Irish industrial output was in and around Belfast, with Belfast the largest city in the island of Ireland. The economy of the Republic is now four times larger than that of Northern Ireland, with industrial output ten times larger than that of Northern Ireland.
2. Average full time income per head in the Republic in 2016 was £40,403, compared to £25,999 in Northern Ireland. In other words, a worker in the Republic is typically paid half as much again as someone working in Northern Ireland.
3. Since the Good Friday Agreement, increased investment has flown to the Republic, rather than to Northern Ireland. Some £312bn of US investment has gone into the Republic since the GFA.
4. GVA – gross value added – per capita in the Republic in 2014 was €38,100, compared to €22,000 in Northern Ireland, just 57% of that in the south.
5. The Republic is much more globally and export focused than is Northern Ireland. As of 2015, exports accounted for 39.5% of Irish economic output, twice the level of Northern Ireland.
6. The Republic is Northern Ireland's main export market, accounting for 31% of international exports – a market likely to contract significantly following Brexit.
7. The economic performance gap between the Republic and Northern Ireland is widening. According to the latest Economic Eye study from accountancy firm EY, economic growth last year in the Republic was 4.9% and in Northern Ireland it was 1.4%.
8. The Republic is expected to increase its employment level, while Northern Ireland is predicted to lose jobs. EY predicts that the Republic will generate an additional 91,000 jobs by 2020 compared to 2016, whereas Northern Ireland will lose 3,500 jobs.
It is not shocking at all, I regularly journey across the border and the difference in economic prosperity is fairly evident. The difference in wages between north and south is striking and the amount of tradesmen making the daily commute to Dublin from the north is huge. There must be no tradesmen in the south.
Even something as simple as infrastructure and roads, it is fairly shocking how the pendulum has swung firmly in favour of the south in the last 15/20 years. The north economically has massive potential upon reunification particularly along the east coast, but it is being completely stifled by the inability of entrenched unionists to see beyond a flag.
One thing about the South is stability. The Troubles are still wreaking havoc in the North in terms of economic output. So many business connections were lost. 30 years of experience missed out on.
I was in Lebanon after the civil war ended. Before the war it had been the main economic centre in the Arab world. The hotels all had photos of film stars from the 50s and 60s . By the time the war ended Dubai had become the banking hub. Beirut will never regain what it lost.
Unionism is such a shortsighted ideology.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 23, 2018, 02:05:28 PM
Quote from: GJL on February 23, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
" a roasting " ?
Leave the rugby trial out of it
Don't be disgusting!! 😠
Quote from: red hander on February 21, 2018, 06:42:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2018, 06:28:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps >:(
Doesn't really matter, she's an irrelevance, a mediocre solicitor from the sticks way out of her league with no discernible role now that Stormont is finito. If she doesn't throw the towel in, the findings of the RHI Inquiry will in all likelihood finish her, such was her ineptitude in the handling of that farce from the very start (not to mention the benefits accrued from it by members of her family in Fermanagh). As I said before, Brexit and demographics will sort the rest out for the Irish people of the putrid statelet ... tick tock, tick tock
If uk leave with a deal that impacts negatively on the 2 way trade between U.K. And RoI and RoI then also leave will that hasten a united ireland?
Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?
As for DUP they are a sorry bunch. The party contains many unsavoury candidates. Their support many more. But there is a gravitational pull towards their electoral success. Not all their voters share all of their unpleasant views and most would have no truck with UDA. The party are beholden to a scary right wing. It looks to me that will split unless in unearths a Paisley-like demagogue. Not said with relish
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/good-friday-agreement-irish-brexit-northern-ireland
..last week's attack on the agreement by a trio of Brexiteers is a development worth unpicking. On 15 February, the Irish historian Ruth Dudley Edwards wrote a Daily Telegraph article on the 13-month impasse at Stormont that concluded: "Realists believe the [deal] has served its purpose and run its course, leaving behind the unintended consequence of enshrining sectarianism in the political process."
The following day the Tory MP Owen Paterson, a former Northern Ireland secretary, tweeted a link to the piece with a comment: "The collapse of power-sharing in Northern Ireland shows the Good Friday agreement has outlived its use." Last Saturday the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan wrote, again in the Telegraph, that the agreement was "often spoken about in quasi-religious terms ... but its flaws have become clearer over time". Finally, two days later, the Labour MP Kate Hoey told the Huffington Post that she thought the agreement needed "a cold, rational look", and that the power-sharing Northern Ireland executive it mandated was "not sustainable in the long term".
The condemnation of Paterson, Hannan and Hoey has been fierce: this week Hoey told the Northern Ireland affairs select committee that finding fault with the Good Friday agreement was "as if you're saying you want to kill all babies at birth". In their defence, all three could argue their criticism was directed at Stormont's failure rather than the agreement's international aspects, such as cross-border trade and cooperation. But their long-held position on Brexit – Hannan was one of its chief architects – suggests a different motive: "If the Belfast agreement must die so that the glorious ideal of Brexit may live, so be it," to quote Fintan O'Toole in today's Irish Times about this "cynical and reckless" exercise.
Quote from: smelmoth on February 23, 2018, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: red hander on February 21, 2018, 06:42:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2018, 06:28:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps >:(
Doesn't really matter, she's an irrelevance, a mediocre solicitor from the sticks way out of her league with no discernible role now that Stormont is finito. If she doesn't throw the towel in, the findings of the RHI Inquiry will in all likelihood finish her, such was her ineptitude in the handling of that farce from the very start (not to mention the benefits accrued from it by members of her family in Fermanagh). As I said before, Brexit and demographics will sort the rest out for the Irish people of the putrid statelet ... tick tock, tick tock
If uk leave with a deal that impacts negatively on the 2 way trade between U.K. And RoI and RoI then also leave will that hasten a united ireland?
Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?
As for DUP they are a sorry bunch. The party contains many unsavoury candidates. Their support many more. But there is a gravitational pull towards their electoral success. Not all their voters share all of their unpleasant views and most would have no truck with UDA. The party are beholden to a scary right wing. It looks to me that will split unless in unearths a Paisley-like demagogue. Not said with relish
There is little chance of the Republic leaving the EU under any Brexit scenario, IMO. I believe the Tories will throw the DUP under the bus to get an advantageous deal, and as the EU has already indicated, that would involve the putrid statelet staying in customs union/single market, i.e special status and a border down Irish Sea. What are the DUP going to do? Pull the plug? That will let in Corbyn, who'd happily hand them their arses.
The demographics will not just be a sectarian headcount, Brexit has ensured that. Economics plays a part with a section of unionists as it does with castle Catholics, and if they think they'll be better off in a UI then they'll be more likely to back that. There's also the hardened attitude of the nationalist crocodiles sick to the back teeth of being treated with disdain by the DUP (thieving Planters) in their own land and now more likely to express their anger at the ballot box.
Wouldn't at all be surprised if the DUP splits, sure hasn't it got arch splitters like Foster and Donaldson in its ranks?
I think ye can all take it as read that the "RoI" won't be leaving the EU.
John Waters and a bunch of rightist extremists invited Farage to an "Irexit" event.
Apart from them nobody else interested in leaving the EU.
Quote from: smelmoth on February 23, 2018, 06:28:53 PM
Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?
it isn't a simple matter of tick tock, you still have to put forward your case, but you at least have people listening to you. The problem is that the issue will then revolve around things like economics, matters on which SF have no credibility.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2018, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 23, 2018, 06:28:53 PM
Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?
it isn't a simple matter of tick tock, you still have to put forward your case, but you at least have people listening to you. The problem is that the issue will then revolve around things like economics, matters on which SF have no credibility.
The UK is an awful mess. the Brexit crowd do not care how much damage their pet project does and they do not care about NI. we are in real uncharted territory. It is very like 100 years ago. Anything can happen.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2018, 07:07:42 PM
I think ye can all take it as read that the "RoI" won't be leaving the EU.
John Waters and a bunch of rightist extremists invited Farage to an "Irexit" event.
Apart from them nobody else interested in leaving the EU.
You can take it as read that RoI doesn't want Uk to leave the EU.
Once it does leave then we have get practicalities. The level of trade with UK and the level of intermediate products traded with U.K. that are part of the supply chain for traded products with EU and ROTW will create practical difficulties
Foster got a roasting from Mrs Paisley who still carries a fair sway with the Church wing of the DUP:
"If you are a minister and someone in your department is wrong, the buck stops at your desk," said Baroness Paisley.
"You have got to do what is right and stand down from your position until the matter is sorted out," she told BBC Radio Foyle.
She said the DUP was as much to blame as Sinn Féin for the current impasse.
Asked if she included the DUP in people not facing up to the truth, she said: "That's right. They're hiding from the truth. And you must be absolutely honest with one another because there's only one way to be honest when you've made a mistake and it's to confess your sin and confess your mistakes because no one is perfect.
"If that had been done at the beginning, there would have been a very different situation than the one we are in at the minute. We would not be in the mess we are in," she added.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512)
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 23, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
Foster got a roasting from Mrs Paisley who still carries a fair sway with the Church wing of the DUP:
"If you are a minister and someone in your department is wrong, the buck stops at your desk," said Baroness Paisley.
"You have got to do what is right and stand down from your position until the matter is sorted out," she told BBC Radio Foyle.
She said the DUP was as much to blame as Sinn Féin for the current impasse.
Asked if she included the DUP in people not facing up to the truth, she said: "That's right. They're hiding from the truth. And you must be absolutely honest with one another because there's only one way to be honest when you've made a mistake and it's to confess your sin and confess your mistakes because no one is perfect.
"If that had been done at the beginning, there would have been a very different situation than the one we are in at the minute. We would not be in the mess we are in," she added.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512)
I heard her interviewed on RTÉ radio this morning, I hope that in 30 years time that I am as well able to state my case.
Dodds was squirming in his seat on The View
Once questioned about " the document " he could not look Carruthers in the eye.
Quote from: Samforever on March 01, 2018, 11:15:16 PM
Once questioned about " the document " he could not look Carruthers in the eye.
Was embarrassing
Good to see the judiciary are standing up to the politicians, putting a personal charge on Arlene for court costs and tell those in charge including civil servants that they will be in contempt if they do not get on with the inquests:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/high-court-rules-arlene-foster-liable-for-costs-in-legacy-case-36737824.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/high-court-rules-arlene-foster-liable-for-costs-in-legacy-case-36737824.html)
Maybe they should let the Judges rule the place for 10 years.
So Arlene would move out of Ireland if people voted to unite the island!
I think that sums it all up. Depressing really how she thinks!
That would be just grand.
One less painful bigoted 17th Century throwback in our lovely Isle.
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
The point is that Dodds et al are planning a Trimble type move, and lining up jobs in the House of Lords, while the eejits that were voting for him in North Belfast will still be here. Likewise Foster will be off in England somewhere leaving the rest of people in Fermanagh to pick up the peaces after Brexit wrecks the economy.
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
maybe he was a Kelly From the Isle of Man!
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Glad you agree - As an Irish nationalist I'm all for anyone who was a planter and wants to stay when the island is united - I certainly wouldn't want unionists to leave or lose their identity - plenty of room for us all (and they can keep their land too)
If I was a unionist/protestant and my leader said i'm leaving if the island is united (as I have the money and resource to do so) and i'll leave the rest of you that I lead to fend for yourselves - well I'd be asking myself do I really want a leader like that???
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "bastards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
Point out to me where Gerry was wrong with that statement?
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
I said nothing about Gerry Adams' attitude towards unionists. I just think he's more comfortable with his identity than Arlene Foster, who appears to be one step away from sporting a union jack dress a la Geri Halliwell.
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
He wasn't referring to unionists, he was referring to those who had an issue with equality, in the wake of comments by gregory campbell and his ilk
Quote from: randomusername on April 06, 2018, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
I said nothing about Gerry Adams' attitude towards unionists. I just think he's more comfortable with his identity than Arlene Foster, who appears to be one step away from sporting a union jack dress a la Geri Halliwell.
Let's pray that she never makes that last step then!!!!
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
He didn't refer to unionists as b******s. He referred to certain bigots within the dup as b******s. But the unionist newspapers ran a story about how sf were out to get all unionists and people like you have lapped it up without reading the actual full quote. Bear in mind this was a few days after the curry my yoghurt incident.
Don't let the f**king door hit you on the way out, Robbie Coltrane
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2018, 01:28:38 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
He didn't refer to unionists as b******s. He referred to certain bigots within the dup as b******s. But the unionist newspapers ran a story about how sf were out to get all unionists and people like you have lapped it up without reading the actual full quote. Bear in mind this was a few days after the curry my yoghurt incident.
Tbf, the "bastards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2018, 01:28:38 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
Quote from: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.
How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists. I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.
He didn't refer to unionists as b******s. He referred to certain bigots within the dup as b******s. But the unionist newspapers ran a story about how sf were out to get all unionists and people like you have lapped it up without reading the actual full quote. Bear in mind this was a few days after the curry my yoghurt incident.
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
Raw is war.
Quote from: randomusername on April 06, 2018, 09:51:36 AM
... Arlene Foster, who appears to be one step away from sporting a union jack dress a la Geri Halliwell.
Now there's a picture you want to keep with you!
All this talk about the treatment of Protestants in a united Ireland. Someone once said to me "I can't wait till the day when I'm whipping the b******s in the fields." He was joking of course.
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
I'll take your avoidance of the question as agreement that Gerry is a one-off, hero and legend of Irish Republicanism.
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 06, 2018, 11:16:56 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance? Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?
Quote from: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 06, 2018, 11:16:56 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance? Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?
You want to see a divergence or view points? Read the Paddy Jackson threads....we definitely don't all agree on this board!
Quote from: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 06, 2018, 11:16:56 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance? Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.Anything for a bit of balance lad.
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 11:34:31 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 06, 2018, 11:16:56 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance? Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
Anything for a bit of balance lad.
So it's okay for people from the Nationalist community to oppose the IRA's campaign but not someone from a unionist background?
Quote from: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 11:42:17 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 11:34:31 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 06, 2018, 11:16:56 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?
* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance? Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd years.
Anything for a bit of balance lad.
So it's okay for people from the Nationalist community to oppose the IRA's campaign but not someone from a unionist background?
Everyone's entitled to their opinion I would have thought, whats your point?
I for one welcome a unionist voice on this forum, if someone can take the time and effort to join in discussion and put forward their own view when clearly a minority voice that's surely a good thing. Things will only change through dialogue.
Quote from: ONARAGGATIP on April 07, 2018, 01:12:39 PM
I for one welcome a unionist voice on this forum, if someone can take the time and effort to join in discussion and put forward their own view when clearly a minority voice that's surely a good thing. Things will only change through dialogue.
I agree. Too many of us are too comfortable in our echo chambers and hate to have our views challenged. I welcome it.
That being said, michaelg is a themuns, so is obviously wrong 😉🇮🇪
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
If anyone could elaborate on this please.
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
If anyone could elaborate on this please.
The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.
Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.
and how are protestants doing now in the ROI (im sure there are still some) - i dont believe there are any issues, even playing GAA
Quote from: Sweeper 123 on April 07, 2018, 03:37:32 PM
and how are protestants doing now in the ROI (im sure there are still some) - i dont believe there are any issues, even playing GAA
You have to realise that the DUP and its supporters do not live in the 21st century, they believe in restoring things to 1950s and 1960s when they dominated society, there was no EU, Britain still ruled the waves and N.Ireland was ruled by people titled Captain and Major. Therefore, they see RoI as it was at these times and not as a modern pluralist society with economic growth beyond the dreams of many other countries.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
If anyone could elaborate on this please.
The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.
Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.
Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
Define didn't do too well? Were they poorer than other people? Could they not become President? Were their schools closed down? Was their university disadvantaged?
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
If anyone could elaborate on this please.
The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.
Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.
Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?
Correct. They worked hand in hand or under instruction, depending on your viewpoint, with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in developing the constitution which gave a special place to the Catholic Church. De Valera and Bishop McQuaid are often regarded as joint authors of the constitution.
Elected representatives did not cross the Catholic Church and allowed it to subjugate the people and handed over state resources to allow it to run mother and baby homes, industrial schools and orphanages where citizens were subjected to the worst abuses without state intervention. Catholic Church was handed the education system and even until now prevents children attending its primary schools if not baptised into the Catholic Church.
You would do well to read of history of the formation of the Irish state and the domination of the Catholic hierarchy before getting into mopery about the North. Both sides of the border dealt badly with those who were not part of the dominant political and religious grouping.
The Republic was a cold house for the vast majority of Protestants and a very difficult place for the majority of poor Catholics.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 04:09:11 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
If anyone could elaborate on this please.
The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.
Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.
Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?
Correct. They worked hand in hand or under instruction, depending on your viewpoint, with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in developing the constitution which gave a special place to the Catholic Church. De Valera and Bishop McQuaid are often regarded as joint authors of the constitution.
Elected representatives did not cross the Catholic Church and allowed it to subjugate the people and handed over state resources to allow it to run mother and baby homes, industrial schools and orphanages where citizens were subjected to the worst abuses without state intervention. Catholic Church was handed the education system and even until now prevents children attending its primary schools if not baptised into the Catholic Church.
You would do well to read of history of the formation of the Irish state and the domination of the Catholic hierarchy before getting into mopery about the North. Both sides of the border dealt badly with those who were not part of the dominant political and religious grouping.
The Republic was a cold house for the vast majority of Protestants and a very difficult place for the majority of poor Catholics.
That should lead you nicely into the second part of the question. What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?
It would be interesting to further qualify what exactly happened and quantify it with more than anacdotal evidence maintaining balance throughout if you are going to add the issues in the north into the mix. I admit I'm asking for the best part of a thesis which you might not have time to pen on here any time soon but a high level account would be great
If thats not possible could someone just point out to me which political parties were responsible.
Big difference between state sponsored murder, displacement, pogrom and refusal of civil rights suffered by 35% (as it was) as opposed to none of the above suffered by 5%.
In these post Religious days it's hard to understand the total Catholic ethos of the 26 Cos.
However the State had little money and was quite happy to have the 2 main Churches provide schooling and social services.
Mind you the 6 Cos "Government" were quite happy to let the Catholic Church look after Education of Catholic kids.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 07, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
Big difference between state sponsored murder, displacement, pogrom and refusal of civil rights suffered by 35% (as it was) as opposed to none of the above suffered by 5%.
In these post Religious days it's hard to understand the total Catholic ethos of the 26 Cos.
However the State had little money and was quite happy to have the 2 main Churches provide schooling and social services.
Mind you the 6 Cos "Government" were quite happy to let the Catholic Church look after Education of Catholic kids.
So if none of the above then what made the 26co's a cold house for Protestants post 1921? And who were the parties in power at the time who perpetrated this? Was it an isolated incident of one government or consecutive governments and for how long?
Quote from: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
It would be interesting to further qualify what exactly happened and quantify it with more than anacdotal evidence maintaining balance throughout if you are going to add the issues in the north into the mix. I admit I'm asking for the best part of a thesis which you might not have time to pen on here any time soon but a high level account would be great
If thats not possible could someone just point out to me which political parties were responsible.
I have not given you anecdotal evidence, I have provided you with historical fact. The Irish Catholic Church in conjunction with De Valera wrote a constitution that ensured that the new Republic was a Catholic state. the state handed over a significant welfare issue to the Church to run as it wished and within its own ethos. It handed over the education system to the Church which as stated above it still controls until today and by prohibiting anyone not baptised to enter the primary schools in the state.
If the constitution of the state is specifically written to favour a religion and you are not part of that religion then the state is colluding in discrimination at the most basic level in terms of your rights. Hence, Protestants who were cut off by the partitioning of the country found themselves in a state that did not respect their religious faith and left them with few options. Their dispersal across the country left them in an even more difficult position. Those in the border counties had the option to move North, many left to go to England as the English army withdrew and others had to assimilate into the Catholic state with no time or respect for their religious beliefs. Just as N.Ireland was being declared to be a Protestant state for a Protestant people, the Republic constitutionally and in practice given the welfare and educational situation alone became a Catholic state for Catholic people.
It was a perception on my part. Some Irish Times pieces on it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/protestant-population-decline-1.297051
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-secret-lives-of-ireland-s-protestants-1.2955670
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 05:34:21 PM
It was a perception on my part. Some Irish Times pieces on it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/protestant-population-decline-1.297051
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-secret-lives-of-ireland-s-protestants-1.2955670
Issues concerning the Catholic church are not concerned with the political structure of the country, a Protestant could be in a small and declining minority in Forkhill as well as Fethard.
There was a Protestant population decline, but this started before independence and included people lost in WW1 and so on. If these people felt British then why would they not go to Britain, which has twice the living standard at that time, as so many Irish people who did not think themselves British did?
I think accuracy is important in these matters.
I see the ethnic cleansing/genocide crap raising its head again and of course the decline in the protestant population from 1850 up until independence when the empire was in all its pomp was similar to the post independence decline but shhh dont tell anybody. Mundane reasons such as intermarriage and british army and civil servants leaving isnt very exciting
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Plenty of Protestants just got on with living in the new State, some went to C of I schools where they existed, more went to Catholic Schools but sat out religion classes. They farmed their buts of land in Leitrim or Sligo or their big farms in Roscommon.
They got on with their neighbours and are now indistinguishable from them except for going to different Churches.
Big Protestant owned shops in garrison towns continued to trade and thrive.
The Guinnesses and the Hely Hutchinsons and their ilk continued to make fortunes and made sure no Protestant was unemployed.
The whole ethos of the State was Catholic, 95% of the population was Catholic but apart from the Librarian case in Mayo and the disgraceful boycott in Wexford 1950s most people just left Protestants be.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 07, 2018, 11:44:17 PM
Plenty of Protestants just got on with living in the new State, some went to C of I schools where they existed, more went to Catholic Schools but sat out religion classes. They farmed their buts of land in Leitrim or Sligo or their big farms in Roscommon.
They got on with their neighbours and are now indistinguishable from them except for going to different Churches.
Big Protestant owned shops in garrison towns continued to trade and thrive.
The Guinnesses and the Hely Hutchinsons and their ilk continued to make fortunes and made sure no Protestant was unemployed.
The whole ethos of the State was Catholic, 95% of the population was Catholic but apart from the Librarian case in Mayo and the disgraceful boycott in Wexford 1950s most people just left Protestants be.
I'd be extremely surprised if there were only 2 instances of discrimination against the Protestant minority population since the inception of the new State.
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.
As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses, also a company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
http://www.mayonews.ie/component/content/article?id=5847:an-unwelcome-guest
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.
As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses, also a company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
This does not mean that the catholic owned business did not discriminate against Protestants.
Quote from: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 09:51:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.
As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses, also a company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
This does not mean that the catholic owned business did not discriminate against Protestants.
Sure, but just remember about discrimination against Catholics next time someone tries to score a point.
Michael grasping at straws to support the narrative he was brought up with methinks.
A bit like "it doesn't mean that others aren't beating their wives" sort of thing.
Trying to penal...ise Cathlicks is he? :)
As the cliché has it, those were different (and, mostly, more awful) times. Casual discrimination was the stuff of everyday life and certainly not confined to any particular sector of society.
I can't find it now, but I remember posting here an advert from the Irish Times archive in the thirties - a solicitor's office in Dublin was looking for a "girl" to do accounts. "Protestant only", it said.
https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/shorthand-for-protestants-sectarian-advertising-in-the-irish-times/
Quote from: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 09:51:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.
As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses, also a company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
This does not mean that the catholic owned business did not discriminate against Protestants.
Businesses hired closer to home than is usual nowadays. And Protestants owned a disproportionate amount business.
Quote from: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 09:12:15 AM
I'd be extremely surprised if there were only 2 instances of discrimination against the Protestant minority population since the inception of the new State.
There is always a certain proportion of irregular behaviour, but it was not institutionalised as in NI.
Fethard was not State discrimination and would have happened had Ireland still been in the Brutish Empire.
Those Protestants. Up to no good as usual.
Quote from: Hardy on April 08, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
As the cliché has it, those were different (and, mostly, more awful) times. Casual discrimination was the stuff of everyday life and certainly not confined to any particular sector of society.
I can't find it now, but I remember posting here an advert from the Irish Times archive in the thirties - a solicitor's office in Dublin was looking for a "girl" to do accounts. "Protestant only", it said.
Indeed. Was just making the point that it was likely a 2 way street and t assert that there only 2 known instances of anti-Protestant discrimination was fairly ridiculous.
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/protestant-teacher-wins-discrimination-case-in-republic-of-ireland-28571280.html
http://www.thejournal.ie/school-protestant-1320710-Feb2014/
Quote from: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/protestant-teacher-wins-discrimination-case-in-republic-of-ireland-28571280.html
http://www.thejournal.ie/school-protestant-1320710-Feb2014/
Would she have got a job in a Catholic school in NI?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
It was extremely nice of the Combined Loyalist paramilitaries to issue a statement saying that they do not support criminality. Even nicer to hear Arlene welcome this lovely gesture by saying how nice they were in comparision to big bad Gerry Adams.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Excellent post.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 09, 2018, 05:32:50 PM
It was extremely nice of the Combined Loyalist paramilitaries to issue a statement saying that they do not support criminality. Even nicer to hear Arlene welcome this lovely gesture by saying how nice they were in comparision to big bad Gerry Adams.
I thought that. What do these pricks want? A medal?
(More community grants i would guess)
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2018, 11:57:41 PM
Quote from: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/protestant-teacher-wins-discrimination-case-in-republic-of-ireland-28571280.html
http://www.thejournal.ie/school-protestant-1320710-Feb2014/
Would she have got a job in a Catholic school in NI?
Yes she would but only if the Board of Governors did not exercise its right to not employ a teacher who was not qualified to teach R.E. with a certificate validated by the Catholic Church.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
Jim wells seems to have gone into full meltdown.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.
By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.
By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
Excellent post. DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study
Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI. I would rather put pins in my eyes.
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.
By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
I am not tarring all unionists or northerners with any brush. I am referring to the likes of Arlene who would feel compelled to emigrate in the event of a United Ireland. I questioning the relationship reasons she (and they) would have for this.
/Jim.
Quote from: michaelg on April 09, 2018, 10:38:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.
By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
Excellent post. DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study
Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI. I would rather put pins in my eyes.
Whatever their reasoning the majority of unionists give them a mandate to speak for them.
/Jiim.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
I have voted 2 or 3 times since the GFA. It's a difficult choice given the ballbags (Both sides by the way) who run for election.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 10, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 09, 2018, 10:38:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.
By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
Excellent post. DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study
Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI. I would rather put pins in my eyes.
Whatever their reasoning the majority of unionists give them a mandate to speak for them.
/Jiim.
Obviously they get the majority of unionist votes polled, however, when the turnout can fall to almost 50%, they may not be getting voted in by the majority of unionists available to vote.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 10, 2018, 12:43:41 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants?
There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population. However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State. A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again. The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant. In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.
Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.
/Jim.
Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.
/Jim
But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.
By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
I am not tarring all unionists or northerners with any brush. I am referring to the likes of Arlene who would feel compelled to emigrate in the event of a United Ireland. I questioning the relationship reasons she (and they) would have for this.
/Jim.
Take any words a politican says with a pinch of salt. Arlene was just trotting out the usual bluff. Same as May with her Brexit bluff. Politicans, for the want of a better term, sticking out their chests. You wouldn't expect anything less.
Quote from: michaelg on April 10, 2018, 07:20:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
I have voted 2 or 3 times since the GFA. It's a difficult choice given the ballbags (Both sides by the way) who run for election.
You're leaving it to others to decide so.
If there were more non aligned ball bags elected it might help.
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.
Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?
She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.
Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?
She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!
But surely with her being a christian, with church and faith is a big part of her life she'd be telling the inquiry the truth? does she have to put her hand on a bible for this inquiry? lol
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.
Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?
She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!
Yeah, it looks like she's going to blame a lot on Andrew Crawford the SPAD who resigned - but he admitted yesterday that he still works PT for the DUP. That's despite her saying when he resigned that the inquiry would exonerate him. I've followed this fairly closely. So far no smoking gun for Foster. To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
I still think the DUP were told by someone in westminister that the treasury was going to cover the cost of the complete RHI Scheme so the DUP took this as a way to get a few of their major friends a few pound.
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
+1
Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS. Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
+1
Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS. Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.
There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
+1
Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS. Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.
There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.
So if that gets Nick Cotton off the hook will the shinners go back into Gov?
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
+1
Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS. Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.
There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.
The key point seems to be a meeting on 14 June 2011 (this actually happened while the consultant's report was still in draft form). Senior civil servant Fiona Hepper told the inquiry that she took Foster through the costings of RHI in detail. Foster says it is "unlikely that that happened" (note use of language, she doesn't say it definitely didn't happen). The problem (for everyone) is that there is no written record of what was discussed at that meeting - which is mind numbing, given what has transpired.
First Rule of Fight Club.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 01:49:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
+1
Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS. Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.
There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.
So if that gets Nick Cotton off the hook will the shinners go back into Gov?
I don't think Arlene stepping aside was part of the botched deal a few weeks back, so I can't see this making a button of difference if Arlene isn't prepared to sign off on the ILA.
She's sounding a bit like Rory Harrison ;):
"Inquiry panel member Dr Keith MacLean notes that Mrs Foster says she didn't do anything wrong and he asks: "But did you do all the right things?"
Mrs Foster says that's for the panel to decide, but makes the point that she would've acted differently if she'd known some of what she knows now.
When pressed to give examples of things she didn't do but should or could have done, she says"none that spring to mind at present".
This is a judicial slap down:
"Asked about his (Andrew Crawford's) role, she says he would've read submissions and related reports that were provided to her to pick up matters that she needed to be aware of. Dr Crawford has told the inquiry that he didn't read in detail crucial reports on which the scheme was based.
Inquiry chair Sir Patrick Coglhin tells Mrs Foster that it "concerns me" that Dr Crawford didn't go through the papers in detail given the complexity and massive cost of the scheme. That just seems to me to be perhaps not the highest standard of governmental practice," he adds."
Ouch, I bet her face is quare and red! Foster's biggest danger here is if she loses her temper (which she's prone to do)
Arlene's evidence today mostly could be summed up as:
"No-one told me"
"I wasn't made aware"
"I didn't know"
"It wasn't pointed out"
"It was X's responsibility"
"I should have been told"
"I didn't see those papers"
"It was never raised"
Though Coghlin nails her in this exchange:
There was "very little conversation at all" about the need for cost controls to be added to the RHI scheme, says Mrs Foster, and she claims it's not fair to suggest the necessity passed her by.
She says she believed that there was a mechanism by which the scheme could be suspended in an emergency but that "turns out to be the wrong understanding".
But the inquiry chair Sir Patrick Coghlin says the need for cost controls was raised in letters to her from the UK government's then energy minister Greg Barker, who was overseeing the similar RHI scheme that was in Great Britain.
When that's put to her, Mrs Foster accepts that Mr Barker - now Lord Barker of Battle - wrote to her and the department and alerted her to the issue of budget protection measures.
Watched some of it today and was astounded by her lack of oversight in the whole affair. Unbelievable. She is throwing people under the bus left right and centre. One of the Chairmen could be seen more or less smirking at the response Foster was giving at the time. It already looks like she'll come out of this with serious damage and it hasn't even got to the juicy part of how cost controls were delayed for so long.
What a pity that the tweet by Snarlene has been high-jacked.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rivals-support-dups-foster-and-lockhart-duo-after-cruel-online-taunts-about-appearance-36809645.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rivals-support-dups-foster-and-lockhart-duo-after-cruel-online-taunts-about-appearance-36809645.html)
https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/984887597318144002 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/984887597318144002)
There were some very relevant and accurate criticisms, but have gotten clouded by the horsey jokes.
Dr Crawford has come out fighting and accusing department officials of deliberately misleading Arlene on what was the best scheme.
I wonder did he tell this to his relations as well!
A long read from Sam McBride but some eyebrow raising stuff as to how Foster ran (or didn't run) her department...
Arlene Foster signed 'blank cheque' on cash for ash despite no cost figure, RHI Inquiry told
https://inews.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-signed-blank-cheque-on-cash-for-ash-despite-no-cost-figure-rhi-inquiry-told/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Arlene Foster signed "a blank cheque" by putting her signature to a statement that the RHI scheme was value for money – even though she had not been told what it would cost, the RHI inquiry has been told. The revelation came today during further probing exchanges with Mrs Foster's long-standing special adviser (Spad) which provided more insight into how the DUP leader operated as a government minister for almost a decade and how the 'cash for ash' scheme was flawed from the outset. Dr Crawford candidly accepted that Mrs Foster's signature had been little more than a "box-ticking exercise" because legally she had to sign the document in question to authorise officials to proceed with such a significant policy but she was reliant on her civil servants "to do their job".
On a number of occasions today, Dr Crawford accepted that he failed to do something which he ought to have done. However, he also frequently blamed officials in Mrs Foster's then department for lapses and on one occasion accused them of "deliberately misleading" the minister. In April 2012, Mrs Foster signed a declaration which said: "I have read the Regulatory Impact Assessment and I am satisfied that the benefits justify the costs", contained within a document known as a 'Regulatory Impact Assessment'. However, Mrs Foster had not been told the costs and, even though the statement was made personally by her, she was entirely reliant on her officials' flawed views. At the point when the scheme was being designed, paperwork frequently referred to it as commitment of £25 million – because that was the money to cover the period up to 2015 of a 20-year scheme.
When asked if he had considered how the department was committing itself to in total, Dr Crawford said today that he did not think that he had considered the total cost of the scheme, although he was aware that it was more than the £25 million mentioned in the documentation. During robust questioning, Dr Crawford was asked whether it was "normal" for the minister to be asked to sign a statement which endorsed a scheme as value for money without being told exactly what it would cost. The former Spad highlighted that the submission in question did say that a Northern Ireland RHI would deliver the highest renewable heat output and the best value – something which was an inaccurate summary of what the consultants commissioned by the department had found.
However, Dr Keith MacLean, the technical assessor to the inquiry, pointed out that the minister was signing to say that she was personally content with the costs of the scheme and its value for money. He told Mrs Foster's former adviser – who remains as a DUP adviser – that "it seems strange to me" that there was no mention of what those costs were or any explanation of how it was value for money. Dr Crawford said: "Looking at it back, in hindsight there should have been, and that should have been covered in the covering submission to the RIA." Referring to a similar document which Mrs Foster had previously signed despite it containing a blank box for the costs, Dr MacLean said that "effectively a blank cheque was being signed off" and asked: "Is this not another example of the minister signing off on something where the number hasn't been filled in?"
Dr Crawford said: "The number hasn't been filled in in terms of the submission to the minister but she is aware that it was with the casework committee and that this whole scheme had gone through the casework committee and the department, whose role was to go through the costs and benefit and make sure it was value for money." Asked by counsel to the inquiry Joseph Aiken whether it was common that these documents did not give the cost of the proposal, Dr Crawford said he would have expected to have been given that detail either in that document or in the covering submission to the minister.
Dr MacLean then asked: "You're expecting to be made aware of all of these things. Now, if that was an expectation why would you not expect to be made aware on the face of the document like this about what the total cost is going to be and why would you not, when you don't see that information, advise the minister not to sign a blank cheque?" Dr Crawford said: "At that stage, what I'd have been doing would have been relying on the casework committee [of civil servants] and those that were on the committee had an experience and drilling down in casework and making sure that was the case." Dr MacLean said: "But why bother going to the minister at all if all you're going to do is tick a box 'oh, casework's looked at it, so it must be OK, so we'll do it as well'?"
Dr Crawford said it went to be minster because it had to be her who signed off such a significant document. Dr MacLean asked: "Is that more than a box-ticking exercise?" Dr Crawford answered candidly: "No, because, you know, it is the minister who has to sign it, but she was relying on the casework committee to do their job and to revert to her if there were any concerns with it."
Judge 'unconvinced' as to why Spad never read £100k reports
Arlene Foster told the inquiry last week that she believed her Spad was at least reading the summary of reports which came to her and on which taxpayers had spent £100,000. Dr Crawford now says that he did not read them. During one of several terse exchanges between inquiry chairman Sir Patrick Coghlin and Andrew Crawford,
The retired judge said to the former Spad: "You didn't read any of the reports, we know that." Dr Crawford jumped in to say: "Sorry, we didn't read any of the consultants' reports; however, you know, we've been through the consultation documents and various submissions that came up from officials; yes, I did not read the consultants' report, but I did not expect them to be at odds with what was in the submissions..."
Sir Patrick said: "Whatever you may have expected, you didn't read the reports. You did rely on the bald statement that we see repeated on a number of occasions [that RHI was best value]...I remain unconvinced as to why the reports were not read at some stage; they weren't even provided to you in the latter stage, you say."
When asked if he had let the minister down by not reading the reports, he said: "Look, I let; I believe I let; I'm very sorry that I didn't read it in detail to flag this up. However, I think the minister was asked the question 'did she expect something to be different in the technical report compared to what she was either made aware of before or what was in the covering submission', she would not expect that.
"So I do not think that there was an expectation there that I should be analysing technical reports and bringing things to her attention which are at odds of [sic] the submission that she is signing. However, look – it is a regret of mine that I didn't identify this and flag it up."
I never saw minutes of any meeting in a decade, says Spad
Arlene Foster's long-standing special adviser has said that in almost a decade at the heart of Stormont he never once saw minutes of a meeting involving his minister. As the public inquiry delves deeper into the failure of Stormont officials to record key meetings, Andrew Crawford repeatedly insisted that the DUP had never asked for things not to be written down in order to avoid them becoming public under transparency laws, as claimed by the head of he civil service. Dr Crawford was firmly told by inquiry chairman Sir Patrick Coghlin that he was wrong to describe Mr Sterling's evidence about minute-taking as "innuendo". Sir Patrick said: "It's not an innuendo, so there's no need to use works like innuendo, that is a fact. Whether you knew it or not will be the subject of the report eventually, but that is a fact."
Later, Dr Crawford was asked if Mrs Foster's private secretary, should have been saying to him or to the minister that other officials were failing to send her minutes of meetings within the minister, despite being obligated to do so. Dr Crawford said: "It would be wrong for me to say that in this situation because I never seen [sic] any minutes from any meeting in any department so in this particular case, should [the private secretary] have came [sic] to me...and said 'Andrew, I need a minute of that meeting', bearing in mind that I didn't do it before, it would be wrong for me to have said I should have done [sic] it in this case."
Dr Keith MacLean asked whether it ought to have been "blatantly obvious" that minutes from ministerial meetings were never coming back to the minister's private office. Dr Crawford said: "I take your point, yes." He said that he does not recall ever being aware of the requirement for a formal record of meeting involving the minister and for those minutes to be sent to the minister's office. When asked if he ought to have known about it to protect the minister, he said: "I ought to have known that notes weren't taken of meetings...but in terms of it coming back down from the energy division to the private office, if I knew minutes were not being taken or notes were not being taken, call it what you may, I would have very much insisted that we get a copy of it..."
Barrister Joseph Aiken said: "The person whose job it was to make the record wasn't making it, and the person whose job it was to receive the record wasn't receiving it, and that person, who worked in with the minister and the special adviser...at no stage, based on what you're explaining, felt the need to draw to your or the minister's attention 'we're not getting any minutes of any of your meetings'." Dr Crawford said the issue was never drawn to his attention but that "key points from meetings that needed followed up" would have been sent to the minister's office.
Mr Aiken asked: "How did it come to be that neither the official whose job it was to write them or the official whose job it was to receive them ever seem to have been concerned that they weren't writing them or weren't receiving them?" Dr Crawford said that he did recall private office officials ensuring that those at meetings were taking notes of what was said but "I cannot answer how, if neither was doing their responsibility or duty, I don't know where that happened or where that originated or where that started".
The largest chicken factory in the north was the main winner in this. They pay directly for the gas that heats all the chicken houses on the farmers land throughout the north. Maybe someone can tell me how many houses they control? This would be a colossal bill every month, along comes a scheme to heat these houses for nothing thus saving this chicken factory a fortune, tell me they had no role in this scheme
Rumours around Dungannon were that the chickenfactoryowners lawyers told Stormont to feck off and not to even bother attempting to take back or change any of the details of the initial contracts.
At the end of May 2013, the UK government's energy minister Greg Barker wrote to Mrs Foster in which he explained that his department was making major cost control changes to the Great Britain RHI scheme. The letter was referred to the DETI officials who were dealing with Northern Ireland's RHI initiative. They said it was "similar" to an earlier letter from Mr Barker and no action was therefore needed. But that wasn't true - the earlier letter had referred to completely different matters - and the chance to tell Mrs Foster about the cost control changes wasn't taken. Dr Crawford says neither he nor Mrs Foster received the letter but "the minister should've seen all the correspondence coming from a Westminster department".
Foster may dodge a bullet on corruption but it's clear she didn't have the first notion about what RHI was, how it operated, how much it cost, who was running it and as important neither did her closest SPAD. Why would all that be important when you're obsessed with making sure that street names in Irish don't appear and that gay people can't get married.
Quote from: AQMP on April 17, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
At the end of May 2013, the UK government's energy minister Greg Barker wrote to Mrs Foster in which he explained that his department was making major cost control changes to the Great Britain RHI scheme. The letter was referred to the DETI officials who were dealing with Northern Ireland's RHI initiative. They said it was "similar" to an earlier letter from Mr Barker and no action was therefore needed. But that wasn't true - the earlier letter had referred to completely different matters - and the chance to tell Mrs Foster about the cost control changes wasn't taken. Dr Crawford says neither he nor Mrs Foster received the letter but "the minister should've seen all the correspondence coming from a Westminster department".
Foster may dodge a bullet on corruption but it's clear she didn't have the first notion about what RHI was, how it operated, how much it cost, who was running it and as important neither did her closest SPAD. Why would all that be important when you're obsessed with making sure that street names in Irish don't appear and that gay people can't get married.
I think she knew only too well but Sam McBride believes there was a culture of sure Whitehall is picking up the tab, no need to worry and feather our friends nest.
The shit only hit the fan when it became apparent that wasn't the case and it was out of the local pot!
She'll get away Scot free on this one, but her competence is seriously under scrutiny not that that will matter to the voting base in Fermanagh or beyond.
Are Sinn Féin doing the right thing by not putting the boot in?
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 17, 2018, 05:35:23 PM
Are Sinn Féin doing the right thing by not putting the boot in?
Yes IMO. It would only end up being a green v orange issue. Better to leave it to journalists and other parties to stick the boot in as you say. I would imagine that a lot of unionists would be embarrassed and dismayed at her ongoings. Whether that would affect the Dup vote much is another matter.
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 17, 2018, 05:35:23 PM
Are Sinn Féin doing the right thing by not putting the boot in?
Why step in, when Coghlin is laying into them & skewering them all roads??
Quote from: AQMP on April 17, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
At the end of May 2013, the UK government's energy minister Greg Barker wrote to Mrs Foster in which he explained that his department was making major cost control changes to the Great Britain RHI scheme. The letter was referred to the DETI officials who were dealing with Northern Ireland's RHI initiative. They said it was "similar" to an earlier letter from Mr Barker and no action was therefore needed. But that wasn't true - the earlier letter had referred to completely different matters - and the chance to tell Mrs Foster about the cost control changes wasn't taken. Dr Crawford says neither he nor Mrs Foster received the letter but "the minister should've seen all the correspondence coming from a Westminster department".
Foster may dodge a bullet on corruption but it's clear she didn't have the first notion about what RHI was, how it operated, how much it cost, who was running it and as important neither did her closest SPAD. Why would all that be important when you're obsessed with making sure that street names in Irish don't appear and that gay people can't get married.
I'd say he knew fine rightly, sure didn't he give his relatives the heads-up about how much money they could make. If he was so incompetent, what was he being paid a £90k salary for? She I can understand to be as thick as pig shit and incompetent, but him? He's basically saying he's an idiot, rather than admitting he lied. And when you look at the evidence, that's probably his only defence
Hold on lads and lassies his cousin didn't put his first boiler in until nearly a year after he sent him the draft document (which was the first of 3 documents he sent over 3 yrs) and only put 6 in before the window closed for applications. And when was asked at the early stages of the inquiry if he has released any confidential information to family members he flat out denied it, but when they produced the email (which his cousin supplied to the inquiry) he just said he didn't remember doing it.
Its clear to be seen that Mr Dr Crawford (would love to know what he is a doctor of) is the scape goat for Snarlene and probably has been rewarded to do so.
Had to add this
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372)
The text messages....lol
Quote from: Hereiam on April 17, 2018, 09:47:16 PM
Hold on lads and lassies his cousin didn't put his first boiler in until nearly a year after he sent him the draft document (which was the first of 3 documents he sent over 3 yrs) and only put 6 in before the window closed for applications. And when was asked at the early stages of the inquiry if he has released any confidential information to family members he flat out denied it, but when they produced the email (which his cousin supplied to the inquiry) he just said he didn't remember doing it.
Its clear to be seen that Mr Dr Crawford (would love to know what he is a doctor of) is the scape goat for Snarlene and probably has been rewarded to do so.
Had to add this
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372)
The text messages....lol
It's always been about lining their pockets with the DUP, from Red Sky to Nama to RHI and plenty of shenanigans before and after. Arlene's a busted flush. If she's still about by the time the RHI report is published (which I doubt), it will finish her. The only reason she is still here is her absolutely breathtaking arrogance
I don't know red hander, any other jurisdiction that would be the case but in this little corner of Ireland once the orange card is played alot is forgotten
Quote from: Hereiam on April 17, 2018, 09:47:16 PM
Hold on lads and lassies his cousin didn't put his first boiler in until nearly a year after he sent him the draft document (which was the first of 3 documents he sent over 3 yrs) and only put 6 in before the window closed for applications. And when was asked at the early stages of the inquiry if he has released any confidential information to family members he flat out denied it, but when they produced the email (which his cousin supplied to the inquiry) he just said he didn't remember doing it.
Its clear to be seen that Mr Dr Crawford (would love to know what he is a doctor of) is the scape goat for Snarlene and probably has been rewarded to do so.
Had to add this
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372)
The text messages....lol
Actually know that Anderson fella. If you want a laugh, there's a comment piece on Arlene and why shes right to leave if a United Ireland happens.
Arlene Foster giving evidence again today.
and it is definitely worth the watching .....struggling, stuttering, red face .....
MY GOD
How can anyone defend her - not matter how blinkered a religious, political, DUP view you have. And bare in mind this is a tame inquiry not really being too aggressive in questioning and still its damning!
This should be used as a key case study for why it is better to resign when you are responsible for something of such magnitude rather than go to an inquiry.
Arlene Foster is as tough as old boots......according to..........herself!! Even if the report totally indicts her, I doubt very much if she will be resigning.
Mr Sterling said civil servants had "got into the habit" of not recording minutes of meetings with ministers because the DUP and Sinn Féin were sensitive to criticism.
The DUP leader says she "did smile when I read that".
She doesn't believe any politicians are not sensitive to criticism and "given what I came through last year I think I'm tougher than most".
"All politicians know they're going to be criticised on a day and daily basis," she says, adding that "you have to ask if you're in the right job" if you are sensitive to criticism.
"Mrs Foster says she "wasn't aware of rumours going around" in 2014 that the RHI scheme was offering a "cash for ash".
Biomass boiler firms were advertising their products through the scheme at trade fair organised by Stormont's enterprise and agriculture departments and were using slogans such as "burn to earn".
Inquiry Sir Patrick Coghlin asks Mrs Foster what communications she had with then agriculture minister Michelle O'Neill "as to what was actually happening on the street... with 'burn-to-earn', 'cash-for-ash'".
She says she didn't know about that and adds that she was not engaging with farmers about what they were doing in relation to with the scheme.
"I know that may sound rather strange given that I am a Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA, but it's the truth," she adds."
And I thought some of the evidence in the rugby trial didn't ring true!
LAD is running with #IDon'tBelieveHer :D
Quote from: AQMP on April 18, 2018, 05:39:52 PM
"Mrs Foster says she "wasn't aware of rumours going around" in 2014 that the RHI scheme was offering a "cash for ash".
Biomass boiler firms were advertising their products through the scheme at trade fair organised by Stormont's enterprise and agriculture departments and were using slogans such as "burn to earn".
Inquiry Sir Patrick Coghlin asks Mrs Foster what communications she had with then agriculture minister Michelle O'Neill "as to what was actually happening on the street... with 'burn-to-earn', 'cash-for-ash'".
She says she didn't know about that and adds that she was not engaging with farmers about what they were doing in relation to with the scheme.
"I know that may sound rather strange given that I am a Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA, but it's the truth," she adds."
And I thought some of the evidence in the rugby trial didn't ring true!
Foster is an indelible stain on the political, social and economic history of the country and that's about as good as her legacy will ever read.
Quote from: WT4E on April 18, 2018, 04:35:42 PM
MY GOD
How can anyone defend her - not matter how blinkered a religious, political, DUP view you have. And bare in mind this is a tame inquiry not really being too aggressive in questioning and still its damning!
This should be used as a key case study for why it is better to resign when you are responsible for something of such magnitude rather than go to an inquiry.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
Is there no one in senior leadership in DUP that could take a step back and say this is making us look really bad and foolish - Arlene maybe its time to take early retirement?? It has to be doing the party serious harm
Quote from: WT4E on April 19, 2018, 10:51:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
Is there no one in senior leadership in DUP that could take a step back and say this is making us look really bad and foolish - Arlene maybe its time to take early retirement?? It has to be doing the party serious harm
Religious fundamentalists of any creed are never wrong.
Unionism has never accepting the part it played in causing the troubles here and until it does they'll never be at peace with themselves let alone their nationalist neighbours.
Any time a Unionist politician is faced with this issue they dress it up as Sinn Féin/ IRA trying to rewrite history.
Quote from: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education, equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter. In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs, education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
aye but Arlene could at least try to hide her bigotry and bitterness
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:27 AM
Quote from: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education, equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter. In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs, education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!
Good post.
One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:27 AM
Quote from: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education, equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter. In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs, education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!
Good post.
One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side
That is the whole point of being a Repubican - take that away and you're a Unionist.
A few observations, firstly on Arlene as leader, everyone knows that Nigel has the real power at the moment. Secondly the whole debacle illustrates that unionists always expect higher standards from nationalists than they practice themselves, this is especially true when it comes to SF. And as the Carla Lockhart situation illustrates they are lacking in shame, an I am not condoning the disgraceful trolling of her, but her own tweets are often offensive. finally the shinners are right to let it run.
You could equally say , until unionists drop any talk of remaining in the UK we'll not engage with them.
There needs to be mutual respect, for each other's position.
There are a significant minority of people on this island who would not feel comfortable in a simple United ireland ie an extension of Dáil jurisdiction into the six counties. Only very very unreasonable people would not respect those concerns. There is a school of thought among some unionists that fenians can't be trusted ( which is ironic given RHI etc) and they fear being subsumed into a backwater banana republic. Several Economic parameters however very clearly place ROI in a much better place than NI .?
Brexit has really thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, but a variation of joint authority in a European context would have been much easier to keep unionists on board.
The only workable solution is developing a mutual respect within the six counties initially . Then pragmatically concentrating on the economy , health , education in the short term, and actually getting to a stage whereby politicians and civil servants can be mature enough to sit down and discuss and map the next 50-100 years . Nationalists /republicans must take the lead on this , as they are the stronger partner, and it's up to them to build the confidence of unionists in any all-island solution. There's a real chance to isolate and shrink the DUP by making them a ridiculed tiny minority in these islands. The rest of us can build an equal society, and they'll eventually row in. On the other hand if we foster the growth of these extremists by being ungenerous or self-centred , future generations will remain beleaguered by conflict
An All Ireland with a working Stormont that effectively still looks after and governs the 'wee six' , it has a budget and a payoff from Britain to appease the local, but must have a time frame (20 years) to bring everything into line.. selling something like that could make the ones on the fence buy into it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2018, 01:15:20 PM
An All Ireland with a working Stormont that effectively still looks after and governs the 'wee six' , it has a budget and a payoff from Britain to appease the local, but must have a time frame (20 years) to bring everything into line.. selling something like that could make the ones on the fence buy into it
Yes, the key point is 20yr+ plan, securing rights and identity for the next generation. Hard even for the most ardent unionists not to back that. Ironically if such an approach was taken at the onset of the NI state with ingrained respect for identity for future generations, it could have worked much better. Ultimately it wasn't the national question that started the conflict in NI from the 60s it was civil rights . Even the recent irretrievable breakdown in Stormont might never have happened if DUP respected Irish language/identity .
Give people respect, equality & opportunities and they'll have no interest in undermining the state, and international opinion won't let them get away with it.
This was part of a discussion this morning around the whistleblower Janette O'Hagan:
=========================================================================
Mrs O'Hagan was "caught in the political crossfire" at the time of the RHI scandal publicly erupting in December 2016, accepts Mrs Foster.
The DUP's deputy leader Nigel Dodds published one of Ms O'Hagan's emails that month, saying that it "nails the myth" that Mrs Foster "failed to follow up" on concerns that were raised to her.
He said the email "raised no concerns" about the scheme and he claimed it was the "only contact with the minister" - that was, of course, incorrect and Mrs Foster accepts that now.
Sir Patrick suggests that one possibility for releasing Ms O'Hagan's email is that "she was fed to the wolves".
Ms O'Hagan told the inquiry in February that how her correspondence was handled at the time was a "complete disgrace".
The DUP leader says there was a "storm" about the scandal going on at the time and there was "a lot of firefighting" to "deal with the allegations that were being made".
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
One of the first companies to notice how lucrative the RHI scheme could be was Sheridan and Hood, which was owned by Brian Hood, who gave evidence to the inquiry in February.
He even suggested to Stormont's justice department that if it used the RHI scheme as part of a major emergency service college it was planning it could pocket just under £900,000 over 20 years.
His company was the first to be accredited on the scheme and he even received a certificate for that from Mrs Foster in March 2013.
The DUP leader can't remember meeting him.
Apart from to put on her crown brooch every morning, can she remember anything??
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
I think we need to get away from flags. We should encourage and foster identity but discourage " in your face" territory marking.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 04:13:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
I think we need to get away from flags. We should encourage and foster identity but discourage " in your face" territory marking.
Funny you chose that word ;D
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect
Yes, but you're never going to achieve that with flegs and icons.
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:27 AM
Quote from: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education, equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter. In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs, education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!
Good post.
One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side
Bizarre ::) So republicans should just drop the cornerstone of their existence because their political enemies don't like it? Jesus wept. Expect this sort of narrative to build up speed over the next few years from, particularly, west Brit commentators such as RDE, O Hanlon and Harris... there's been some articles already basically saying 'Stop talking about a united Ireland as it could destabilise the situation/upset unionists' ... in other words, dump your principles because the other side don't agree with them. And these same c***ts are always hammering on about 'democracy'
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect
Respect and equality go hand in hand. I think part of the problem is when we describe culture here , we lump obviously antagonistic coattrailing ( flags/emblems/marches ) in with Seamus Heaney and CS Lewis. Let's embrace and respect genuine culture , and call out antagonistic territory marking for what it is.
Quote from: red hander on April 19, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:27 AM
Quote from: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education, equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter. In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs, education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!
Good post.
One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side
Bizarre ::) So republicans should just drop the cornerstone of their existence because their political enemies don't like it? Jesus wept. Expect this sort of narrative to build up speed over the next few years from, particularly, west Brit commentators such as RDE, O Hanlon and Harris... there's been some articles already basically saying 'Stop talking about a united Ireland as it could destabilise the situation/upset unionists' ... in other words, dump your principles because the other side don't agree with them. And these same c***ts are always hammering on about 'democracy'
This is about achieving a UNITED ireland. That's only achievable with work, empathy and respect. Celebrating a victory and rubbing unionists nose in it, is not republicanism to me. We've been on the receiving end of that nonsense since 1690. Let's show as a nation we're different . I suspect this view would be welcomed by 90% of people in a new Ireland, there's your consensus.
Last question to Foster before she finishes her evidence (until Sept).
David Scoffield QC: To what extent does the buck stop with you?
Foster: I can't be blamed for other people's mistakes.
She really has the mind of a child ::)
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: red hander on April 19, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:27 AM
Quote from: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can't get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.
Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.
Arlene's upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called "leader of unionism" would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she'd be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than 50% of the whole community , but it's incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she'll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.
Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don't think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
There is hope, and that's a new , safe , secure , non threatening "respect" majority.
Obviously , I'd love to see a United ireland , but I've lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding "NI", nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like "NI" it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education, equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it's been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn't a hair's breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won't allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter. In 20 years time we'll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs, education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, "Middle of the roaders " especially SDLP voters need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That's the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn't sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They're no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let's foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We'll get there!
Good post.
One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side
Bizarre ::) So republicans should just drop the cornerstone of their existence because their political enemies don't like it? Jesus wept. Expect this sort of narrative to build up speed over the next few years from, particularly, west Brit commentators such as RDE, O Hanlon and Harris... there's been some articles already basically saying 'Stop talking about a united Ireland as it could destabilise the situation/upset unionists' ... in other words, dump your principles because the other side don't agree with them. And these same c***ts are always hammering on about 'democracy'
This is about achieving a UNITED ireland. That's only achievable with work, empathy and respect. Celebrating a victory and rubbing unionists nose in it, is not republicanism to me. We've been on the receiving end of that nonsense since 1690. Let's show as a nation we're different . I suspect this view would be welcomed by 90% of people in a new Ireland, there's your consensus.
Where have I suggested this? I admire your optimism, though, over achieving reunification through 'work, empathy and respect', I really do.
How else will it be achieved?
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Why should we though? They are making themselves look as stupid as is humanly possible. Snarlene's comments at that trial are unbelievable. I'd hang tight, no Stormont until the next General Election, get Corbyn election and really put the buck to the bray.
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
A UI has been on the back burner since the GFA and where did that get nationalism. Its only Brexit that has brought it back on the table
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 19, 2018, 07:02:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Why should we though? They are making themselves look as stupid as is humanly possible. Snarlene's comments at that trial are unbelievable. I'd hang tight, no Stormont until the next General Election, get Corbyn election and really put the buck to the bray.
Those circumstances would change the dynamic , but the fact remains getting an all island settlement is inevitable within the next 25 years. Just don't want the lead up and the outcome to be marred by more conflict and more lost lives. If we show a magnanimity when we're majority, that we were never afforded ourselves, then we are more likely to have a thriving nation
Quote from: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on April 19, 2018, 07:02:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Why should we though? They are making themselves look as stupid as is humanly possible. Snarlene's comments at that trial are unbelievable. I'd hang tight, no Stormont until the next General Election, get Corbyn election and really put the buck to the bray.
Those circumstances would change the dynamic , but the fact remains getting an all island settlement is inevitable within the next 25 years. Just don't want the lead up and the outcome to be marred by more conflict and more lost lives. If we show a magnanimity when we're majority, that we were never afforded ourselves, then we are more likely to have a thriving nation
I really don't think that will be an issue. You just have to look at the difference between nationalist controlled councils and unionist controlled ones to see that.
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Because that would mean actually doing something, and SF have nothing to offer themselves. Both sides deflect attention from their useless selves, by attacking the other.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 08:21:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Because that would mean actually doing something, and SF have nothing to offer themselves. Both sides deflect attention from their useless selves, by attacking the other.
Aye sheer SF incompetence got them this far ::)
This is up on the BBC website at the minute...
It is likely Catholics will outnumber Protestants by 2021 in Northern Ireland, according to a leading academic.
Dr Paul Nolan, who specialises in monitoring the peace process and social trends, told BBC News NI that there could be more Catholics than Protestants in Northern Ireland by the centenary of the foundation of the state.
However, he says unionists should not be too alarmed because you cannot necessarily equate being a Catholic with supporting a united Ireland.
Image caption
Census figures in 2011 showed a narrowing gap in the population
The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, just 3% more than Catholics at 45%.
More recent figures from 2016 show that among those of working age 44% are now Catholic and 40% Protestant.
Image caption
Figures from 2016 of working age population
The difference is even more marked among schoolchildren with 51% Catholic, 37% Protestant.
Only among the over 60s is there a majority of Protestants with 57%, compared to Catholics on 35%.
Dr Nolan said: "Three years from now we will end up, I think, in the ironic situation on the centenary of the state where we actually have a state that has a Catholic majority."
Looking at the last census in 2011, Mr Nolan points out although 45% identified as being from a Catholic background, only 25% claimed an exclusively Irish identity.
Image caption
Figures among school-age children are more clear
He said: "The future of unionism depends entirely upon one thing - and I mean unionism with a small 'u' - it depends on winning the support of people who do not regard themselves to be unionists with a capital 'U'.
"In other words people who do not identify with the traditional trappings of unionism; people who would give their support for a UK government framework and that's a sizeable proportion of Catholics provided they are not alienated by any form of triumphalism or anything that seems to be a rejection of their cultural identity as nationalists."
What's next?
It is likely there will be "more examination of what a United Ireland might mean," according to Dr Nolan.
"Does it mean one parliament in Dublin or two parliaments? One in Belfast and one in Dublin?
"I think the more that gets unpacked, the more opinion will move back and forward. Its not going to go just in one direction.
Image caption
Dr Nolan warns not to rely too heavily on polls for an indication on support for a united Ireland
Dismissing opinion polls declaring support for a united Ireland, Dr Nolan says the polls ask the wrong question.
"If we got to the situation where people go into a polling booth and have to put the mark against a united Ireland, it's very hard for anyone to predict it. Just ask Hillary Clinton, ask David Cameron, ask Theresa May: were they right to put their faith in the opinion polls? I don't think so."
Meanwhile the Sinn Féin President Mary Lou McDonald responded to the DUP leader Arlene Foster saying she would "probably" leave in the event of a united Ireland.
Ms McDonald told BBC News NI: "Of course unionists have to be at home in a new Ireland. It has to be as much a home for Arlene Foster and her family as for mine.
"So, yes, let's have the discussion.
"As far as I'm concerned nothing is taboo. Let's talk about the flag, let's talk about the anthem, let's talk about every nuance and every aspect of Irish life north and south."
The View is on BBC One Northern Ireland at 22:40 BST
The bit in bold highlights the utter lunacy of the DUP's brexit policy. They couldn't have done anything more suicidal if they wanted to increase the potential small u vote.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect
Yes, but you're never going to achieve that with flegs and icons.
Yes but if the state only reflects one identity that is an issue.
It's interesting times certainly. A lot of Republicans are hanging their hope on 50%+1 catholic majority. Unfortunately that ain't going to work. Any new Ireland will have to be all encompassing, where a place exists for Unionists and Loyalists. It's a challenge to Nationalism and Republicanism to make the case. How it would work and what it would look like.
While Brexit is a challenge and a lot of doomsday scenarios are touted about, in reality it probably won't resemble the Mad Max scenario that some portray. SF seem to hope it will and are probably pushing for this. They hated Europe all along anyway and as the saying goes never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. So they probably see an equation Brexit + demographics = UI.
Nationalism can't hang onto demographics or indeed Brexit to do this job for us. We must make the case.
Interestingly, last night on BBC's The View Christopher Stalford seem to see the value in making an honest case for the Union. If Unionism (ie: The DUP) were able to promote a society in NI where Nationalism had it's place and OO shows of strength, bonfires etc where more controlled or certainly less triumphalist for example, this would could placate a huge swathe of Nationalists who have no real strong desire to see a UI. There's a comfortable Nationalism out there. Brexit and other issues does poke it from time to time, but for the most part it's happy with its lot.
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 12:16:25 PM
It's interesting times certainly. A lot of Republicans are hanging their hope on 50%+1 catholic majority. Unfortunately that ain't going to work. Any new Ireland will have to be all encompassing, where a place exists for Unionists and Loyalists. It's a challenge to Nationalism and Republicanism to make the case. How it would work and what it would look like.
While Brexit is a challenge and a lot of doomsday scenarios are touted about, in reality it probably won't resemble the Mad Max scenario that some portray. SF seem to hope it will and are probably pushing for this. They hated Europe all along anyway and as the saying goes never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. So they probably see an equation Brexit + demographics = UI.
Nationalism can't hang onto demographics or indeed Brexit to do this job for us. We must make the case.
Interestingly, last night on BBC's The View Christopher Stalford seem to see the value in making an honest case for the Union. If Unionism (ie: The DUP) were able to promote a society in NI where Nationalism had it's place and OO shows of strength, bonfires etc where more controlled or certainly less triumphalist for example, this would could placate a huge swathe of Nationalists who have no real strong desire to see a UI. There's a comfortable Nationalism out there. Brexit and other issues does poke it from time to time, but for the most part it's happy with its lot.
They would be wrong then. A lot may be
hanging their hat on 50%+1 in a border pole, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Quote from: HiMucker on April 20, 2018, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 12:16:25 PM
It's interesting times certainly. A lot of Republicans are hanging their hope on 50%+1 catholic majority. Unfortunately that ain't going to work. Any new Ireland will have to be all encompassing, where a place exists for Unionists and Loyalists. It's a challenge to Nationalism and Republicanism to make the case. How it would work and what it would look like.
While Brexit is a challenge and a lot of doomsday scenarios are touted about, in reality it probably won't resemble the Mad Max scenario that some portray. SF seem to hope it will and are probably pushing for this. They hated Europe all along anyway and as the saying goes never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. So they probably see an equation Brexit + demographics = UI.
Nationalism can't hang onto demographics or indeed Brexit to do this job for us. We must make the case.
Interestingly, last night on BBC's The View Christopher Stalford seem to see the value in making an honest case for the Union. If Unionism (ie: The DUP) were able to promote a society in NI where Nationalism had it's place and OO shows of strength, bonfires etc where more controlled or certainly less triumphalist for example, this would could placate a huge swathe of Nationalists who have no real strong desire to see a UI. There's a comfortable Nationalism out there. Brexit and other issues does poke it from time to time, but for the most part it's happy with its lot.
They would be wrong then. A lot may be hanging their hat on 50%+1 in a border pole, and there is nothing wrong with that.
You can hang anything you want on a border pole, its the result of the poll though that counts. ;D
50% +1 in a catholic majority is a far cry from 50% +1 in a border poll
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2018, 02:05:09 PM
50% +1 in a catholic majority is a far cry from 50% +1 in a border poll
Hard brexit means more greens and alliance voters supporting UI than UK according to the recent lucid talk poll many who whould be neither catholic nor republican. This crap that people are afraid of changing the status quo has been blown apart by brexit. After all how is a United Ireland any more of a change than brexit. They both change the status quo in fact a UI within the EU would probably be less of a hiccup.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Hmmm, yes and no. I'm the wrong side of 50 and there's been more
serious talk about a UI in the last 18 months than in the previous 95 years! I know a lot of soft and small "n" Nationalists who are very unhappy about Brexit. They are persuadable, so are the Kellie Armstrong types in Alliance, a lot of Greens and there must be some unknowns who would vote for a UI. This is going to sound a wee bit callous but if we persuade all those then we don't need that many Unionists to change their minds to make 50%+1 a possibility. The issue might be, what do we do after that!?
I've said this before but what's needed is a grouping to come forward, along the lines of the business people who sent the letter to Leo recently, who are not directly affiliated to SF to lead a UI campaign. We also need robust answers to all the questions that will be asked about what a UI will look like. There's about 5 years work there alone.
Also, I must say I've often been critical of Colum Eastwood but I thought he was very good on The View last night in a "debate", of sorts, with Christopher Stalford and Kellie Armstrong.
Quote from: AQMP on April 20, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Hmmm, yes and no. I'm the wrong side of 50 and there's been more serious talk about a UI in the last 18 months than in the previous 95 years! I know a lot of soft and small "n" Nationalists who are very unhappy about Brexit. They are persuadable, so are the Kellie Armstrong types in Alliance, a lot of Greens and there must be some unknowns who would vote for a UI. This is going to sound a wee bit callous but if we persuade all those then we don't need that many Unionists to change their minds to make 50%+1 a possibility. The issue might be, what do we do after that!?
I've said this before but what's needed is a grouping to come forward, along the lines of the business people who sent the letter to Leo recently, who are not directly affiliated to SF to lead a UI campaign. We also need robust answers to all the questions that will be asked about what a UI will look like. There's about 5 years work there alone.
Also, I must say I've often been critical of Colum Eastwood but I thought he was very good on The View last night in a "debate", of sorts, with Christopher Stalford and Kellie Armstrong.
Kinda looked like Stalford fancied him! Don't know much about him but he did a way better job than Arlene but then again she can't remember anything!
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on April 20, 2018, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2018, 02:05:09 PM
50% +1 in a catholic majority is a far cry from 50% +1 in a border poll
Hard brexit means more greens and alliance voters supporting UI than UK according to the recent lucid talk poll many who whould be neither catholic nor republican. This crap that people are afraid of changing the status quo has been blown apart by brexit. After all how is a United Ireland any more of a change than brexit. They both change the status quo in fact a UI within the EU would probably be less of a hiccup.
This is an excellent point. one thing the Unionists had on their side was the status quo and the fact many people oppose change. Brexit has meant there's going to be change now regardless.
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.
Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Quote from: AQMP on April 20, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Hmmm, yes and no. I'm the wrong side of 50 and there's been more serious talk about a UI in the last 18 months than in the previous 95 years! I know a lot of soft and small "n" Nationalists who are very unhappy about Brexit. They are persuadable, so are the Kellie Armstrong types in Alliance, a lot of Greens and there must be some unknowns who would vote for a UI. This is going to sound a wee bit callous but if we persuade all those then we don't need that many Unionists to change their minds to make 50%+1 a possibility. The issue might be, what do we do after that!?
I've said this before but what's needed is a grouping to come forward, along the lines of the business people who sent the letter to Leo recently, who are not directly affiliated to SF to lead a UI campaign. We also need robust answers to all the questions that will be asked about what a UI will look like. There's about 5 years work there alone.
Also, I must say I've often been critical of Colum Eastwood but I thought he was very good on The View last night in a "debate", of sorts, with Christopher Stalford and Kellie Armstrong.
Aye, and how is that coming along? What has Leo Lickspittle done so far?
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.
Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Agreed. Also hard to fathom how the DUP could not see the potential damage to the Union when supporting Brexit, particulary when it was fairly obvious that Scotland was likely to vote remain. Perhaps, like most people, they felt that the leavers were unlikely to win.
Whatever about SDLP, FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
Quote from: michaelg on April 20, 2018, 04:52:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.
Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Agreed. Also hard to fathom how the DUP could not see the potential damage to the Union when supporting Brexit, particulary when it was fairly obvious that Scotland was likely to vote remain. Perhaps, like most people, they felt that the leavers were unlikely to win.
Read an article online about six months ago that suggested this re the DUP. Can't for the life of me remember the web address etc, but the guy said his sources told him the DUP was persuaded by right-wing elements within the Tory party to throw its weight blindly behind Brexit. These elements, incl Gove and Johnson, didn't actually believe the UK would vote for it, despite their posturing since the referendum, but the DUP would do itself no harm and in the process enhance its ultra British image. There may or may not be any truth in it.
Very possible. Whilst Arlene doesn't appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, wee Nigel is no dozer. Why it's hard to see how he could not see the potential impact on the union(i.e. Potential break-up) if Scotland voted remain in an overal UK leave vote.
the more i see of her the more inclined i would be to think that lining her own pocket would be a more likely reason for the support of brexit.
That inquiry is a farce. She is lying through her teeth. Good christian my arse.
DUP supported Brexit assuming it would fail. And at same time, showing the rest of UK that they are the most british of all the Brits in the UK's jurisdictions.
Then when Brexit happens, they had to actually follow through with their patriotic charade.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 08:11:04 PM
DUP supported Brexit assuming it would fail. And at same time, showing the rest of UK that they are the most british of all the Brits in the UK's jurisdictions.
Then when Brexit happens, they had to actually follow through with their patriotic charade.
Yep, that's what guy was basically saying in article, but that Tory right planted the initial seed
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 05:29:50 PM
Whatever about SDLP, FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
Actually Mary Lou in that programme said that in the event of a UI everything was up for discussion and that Unionists had to feel welcome (paraphrasing). This is a refreshing change, coupled with what I thought was an excellent contribution from Colm Eastwood. Stalford deserves some credit as well for his approach.
If Stalford wants a long political career he should expect to be a minister in a UI.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 23, 2018, 10:44:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 05:29:50 PM
Whatever about SDLP, FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
Actually Mary Lou in that programme said that in the event of a UI everything was up for discussion and that Unionists had to feel welcome (paraphrasing). This is a refreshing change, coupled with what I thought was an excellent contribution from Colm Eastwood. Stalford deserves some credit as well for his approach.
100%
Quote from: michaelg on April 20, 2018, 04:52:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.
Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Agreed. Also hard to fathom how the DUP could not see the potential damage to the Union when supporting Brexit, particulary when it was fairly obvious that Scotland was likely to vote remain. Perhaps, like most people, they felt that the leavers were unlikely to win.
The DUP have a number of clowns that would see Brexit as putting one over on nationalists and the Republic.
Quote from: tiempo on April 19, 2018, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 08:21:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.
How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Because that would mean actually doing something, and SF have nothing to offer themselves. Both sides deflect attention from their useless selves, by attacking the other.
Aye sheer SF incompetence got them this far ::)
Well that and a little bit of voter fraud...
Quote from: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 05:29:50 PM
Whatever about SDLP, FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
I'm not sure if they have a vision for how it could look, or SDLP either. Certainly any time I've seen reps from either party asked about it they've badly struggled to give an answer. One possibility would be a federal type of set up which gives people at a more regional level some autonomy.
As I've been saying for 10 or so years a Confederation of the 2 existing Jurisdictions with the terms of the GFA applying to the 6 Cos.
Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont to run local affairs in their Semi Autonomous Areas.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
As I've been saying for 10 or so years a Confederation of the 2 existing Jurisdictions with the terms of the GFA applying to the 6 Cos.
Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont to run local affairs in their Semi Autonomous Areas.
Can you really see that happening? I mean, the DUP can't sit down in Stormont with Nationalist parties under a British governmental system. They unlikely to sit down in Stormont under a United Ireland system.
We're talking about a different world altogether .......
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
As I've been saying for 10 or so years a Confederation of the 2 existing Jurisdictions with the terms of the GFA applying to the 6 Cos.
Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont to run local affairs in their Semi Autonomous Areas.
If there is no real change, what's the point?
No more British Rule.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2018, 11:27:38 PM
No more British Rule.
Not sure all the folk taking the Queen's coin will be in favour.
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
The current neanderthal biggots that lead unionism will never consider a UI.
I dont say this lightly but I firmly believe we would go back to a war before unionism would agree to a UI
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
It sounds a bit like asking people to vote for Brexit without having a fciking clue what it would mean. Imagine!
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
Tell us what you think it would mean for Health,Education for starters....never mind trying to sell to the loyalist population
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
My friend is Protestant and comes from a very proud Unionist family with a capital U. His father and uncle were high ranking RUC officers.
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.
So not all Catholics are Nationalists, but no one says not all Protestants are Unionists.
Quote from: ziggysego on April 24, 2018, 09:18:22 AM
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.
There's an "r" in nationalist?!
I don't know how the rest of you all feel but I am starting to worry more about what the British have planned for over here. You can be sure our interests will not matter one fook.
Quote from: ziggysego on April 24, 2018, 09:18:22 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
My friend is Protestant and comes from a very proud Unionist family with a capital U. His father and uncle were high ranking RUC officers.
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.
So not all Catholics are Nationalists, but no one says not all Protestants are Unionists.
Bit of Daddy issues going on there, Zig? Aul Oedipus wouldn't have a look in!
Quote from: Hereiam on April 24, 2018, 09:39:44 AM
I don't know how the rest of you all feel but I am starting to worry more about what the British have planned for over here. You can be sure our interests will not matter one fook.
Of course not. They won't pay anything if a united Ireland ever does come about either.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 09:01:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
Tell us what you think it would mean for Health,Education for starters....never mind trying to sell to the loyalist population
It's not up to me, I'm not a politician, neither am I selling a UI. I would want to see how it affects me personally before voting.What I am saying is that your statement needs qualification because no one will vote positively for something not knowing the impact of a yes vote. If Brexit teaches us anything it is that if people are leaning in a certain direction it is easier to persuade them.
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
Quote from: Hereiam on April 24, 2018, 09:39:44 AM
I don't know how the rest of you all feel but I am starting to worry more about what the British have planned for over here. You can be sure our interests will not matter one fook.
And you can be sure that Merkel, Macron and the right wingers in Austria Poland Hungary etc arent too concerned about us either. Maybe if we offered Putin the use of Knock Airport we might be looked after
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy isthere through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.
Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
Quote from: gallsman on April 24, 2018, 09:21:06 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 24, 2018, 09:18:22 AM
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.
There's an "r" in nationalist?!
Yeah, I wondered about that myself ;D
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.
Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
How do we know they would be looking this?
While only a small sample any that I know and have discussed with wont consider a UI.
End of.
As I say if a UI was close it wouldnt be hard for the neanderthals to whip up a frenzy and go back to a civil war.
It didnt take much to whip up a frenzy about the flegs. And that was only about flying a fleg.
Imagine it was about a UI. Doesnt bare thinking about
What impact would a loyalist uprising be. How many guns are they in possession of at this point of time. The way it could play out of course is that britian hands back the north but they supply the loyalist with the weapons they need to keep the place in turmoil just like what is happening in the middle east.
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy isthere through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
He shouldn't be attacked for that position as it is reasonably accurate as things stand. It is up to SF/SDLP to persuade.That also would involve showing public sector wprkers how they would be better off in a UI.
Quote from: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 11:04:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.
Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
How do we know they would be looking this?
While only a small sample any that I know and have discussed with wont consider a UI.
In general, the idea that Nationalists are influenced by money more than Unionists is rather condescending.
Pretty much any Alliance type voter is willing to look at the detail. Many of the Nesbitt faction of UU voter also, opinion polls show a quarter of UU voters in favour of an Irish language act.
Big U Unionists are a declining minority in NI, so the issue will be determined by the rest.
Of course some loyalists would stir trouble, which is why a period of talk is needed.
Quote from: Hereiam on April 24, 2018, 11:38:37 AM
What impact would a loyalist uprising be. How many guns are they in possession of at this point of time. The way it could play out of course is that britian hands back the north but they supply the loyalist with the weapons they need to keep the place in turmoil just like what is happening in the middle east.
It isn't in Britain's interest to do this, they don't want NI really and having British terrorism become famous would not be especially helpful to Britain. Some shady elements might provide assistance to loyalists, but I doubt if they would nowadays get much official backing. It isn't like the Middle East, where Britain is keeping in with the US, the US would not favour stirring irredentist loyalists.
Quote from: Hereiam on April 24, 2018, 11:38:37 AM
What impact would a loyalist uprising be. How many guns are they in possession of at this point of time. The way it could play out of course is that britian hands back the north but they supply the loyalist with the weapons they need to keep the place in turmoil just like what is happening in the middle east.
Any loyalists paramilitary group can be bought off, any of them, It's not Slab your talking about here.
The biggest worries would be the violence on the street fueled by unionists in office. They would provoke as much upheaval as they could before defecting to their prearranged residences in Scotland and the like.
If a UI became a reality some backlash is a given.
Alliance voters might look at detail but that doesnt mean in any shape or form they want or would agree to a UI.
If some reject it you can bet your bottom dollar the frenzy whipped up would be unreal and they would take to the streets like the hardliners.
As I said before a fleg caused carnage in the north - a proposed UI would be 100 tiems worse
Quote from: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 12:31:20 PM
Alliance voters might look at detail but that doesnt mean in any shape or form they want or would agree to a UI.
If some reject it you can bet your bottom dollar the frenzy whipped up would be unreal and they would take to the streets like the hardliners.
As I said before a fleg caused carnage in the north - a proposed UI would be 100 tiems worse
Opinion polls show that two thirds of Alliance voters favoured a UI in the event of a hard Brexit, so presumably they are open to discussion on the matter.
As for carnage, what do you want, wait until the Loyalists grow up or until some nationalist group promises great carnage?
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 12:40:48 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 12:31:20 PM
Alliance voters might look at detail but that doesnt mean in any shape or form they want or would agree to a UI.
If some reject it you can bet your bottom dollar the frenzy whipped up would be unreal and they would take to the streets like the hardliners.
As I said before a fleg caused carnage in the north - a proposed UI would be 100 tiems worse
Opinion polls show that two thirds of Alliance voters favoured a UI in the event of a hard Brexit, so presumably they are open to discussion on the matter.
As for carnage, what do you want, wait until the Loyalists grow up or until some nationalist group promises great carnage?
I dont want carnage at all. Simply pointing out the consequences of a UI
Ok the last lucid talk poll had in the event of a hard brexit a majority supporting a UI. It also showed more Alliance and Green voters backing a UI over UK. These are the voters that need persuading not DUP or even UUP voters. If the Alliance types are interested and the vast majority are pro EU then the numbers are already there. I have talked about this before castle catholics were happy to stay in the UK because they were happy with the status quo, well Brexit has completely changed the status quo so suddenly a UI doesnt seem to be any bigger a jump in the dark than Brexit. Only a super fudge on customs union and the softest of brexits is going to save the day and if that happens then the Tory party will tear itself apart so all in all its a win-win-win situation.
Next about this loyalist uprising
The PSNI have the loyalists wrapped up they know who all the players are and tolerate their criminality just for the ease
The fleg protests were a joke within a few weeks it was one man and his dog stuff, likewise Twadell and was just giving people like LAD mountains of material to take the piss. The days of the workers strikes or the anglo irish agreement protests are finished
The IRA were able to cause trouble because they had money form America, arms from Libya and were able to easily take refuge across the border. Loyalists will have none of this. Loyalists will neither have the British army supporting them and covering them when it suited them. An uprising by a few mad men could cause initial mayhem but it would be stopped very very swiftly
If Scotland had independence prior to a UI referendum therefore throwing the union to the annals of history then a UI might be more expectable to hard loyalists, well it would lessen resistance. But I think it's unrealistic not to expect some violence.
Quote from: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 08:25:27 AM
The current neanderthal biggots that lead unionism will never consider a UI.
I dont say this lightly but I firmly believe we would go back to a war before unionism would agree to a UI
Its a lot harder to murder people when you dont have swathes of the RUC, UDR, BA & MI5 behind you, supplying & directing you and helping you escape after the event... The Loyalists wont have that....
Anyway, if there was a vote for an UI, what exactly would they be fighting for ?
Quote from: GJL on April 24, 2018, 08:46:08 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
It sounds a bit like asking people to vote for Brexit without having a fciking clue what it would mean. Imagine!
That would never happen. The British are too intelligent to even think about that.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.
Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
You obviously havent read the "main nationalist party" money grows on trees economic policy
Firstly SF and SDLP need to say how they see the future All Ireland State.
Then the Nationalist/Catholic demographic becomes the bigger and as the votes for the Nationalist Parties outnumber those of the Unionist parties.
As the clamour for a "Border Poll" grows it will be time for another "New Ireland Forum" to discuss and reach some kind of concensus on the shape of a new All Ireland State.
Then have the Poll.
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.
Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
You obviously havent read the "main nationalist party" money grows on trees economic policy
I have read it, I just don't believe it.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.
Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
You obviously havent read the "main nationalist party" money grows on trees economic policy
I have read it, I just don't believe it.
Of course their "magic beans" policy should get a lot of support as well
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2018, 05:52:46 PM
Firstly SF and SDLP need to say how they see the future All Ireland State.
Then the Nationalist/Catholic demographic becomes the bigger and as the votes for the Nationalist Parties outnumber those of the Unionist parties.
As the clamour for a "Border Poll" grows it will be time for another "New Ireland Forum" to discuss and reach some kind of concensus on the shape of a new All Ireland State.
Then have the Poll.
Don't agree. For us in the North, it doesn't matter what the new state looks like, it'll be an All Ireland one which was what was campaigned for and is now being voted for.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2018, 05:52:46 PM
Firstly SF and SDLP need to say how they see the future All Ireland State.
Then the Nationalist/Catholic demographic becomes the bigger and as the votes for the Nationalist Parties outnumber those of the Unionist parties.
As the clamour for a "Border Poll" grows it will be time for another "New Ireland Forum" to discuss and reach some kind of concensus on the shape of a new All Ireland State.
Then have the Poll.
The vision for a New Ireland has to come from the sitting government in the Dail.
Anything else would be just fluff
Will Snarlene be tweeting her congratulations?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43910560 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43910560)
Who's the daddy?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on April 26, 2018, 05:08:36 PM
Who's the daddy?
And in Tom Daley's case... Who's the mummy?
What a fcuked up world we inhabit.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 26, 2018, 06:16:55 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on April 26, 2018, 05:08:36 PM
Who's the daddy?
And in Tom Daley's case... Who's the mummy?
What a fcuked up world we inhabit.
You're right, why couldnt things just stay the way they are? Everyone would be better for it.
See Arlene on the warpath again, you couldnt write this stuff
Breakdown of trust....
Sure how could you ever trust that woman so a bit of pot kettle black.
Trump is coming to England on 13th July. As the DUP are a component of the British government, Arlene could invite him to a12th demonstration (Trump's mammy's could have been planters). Then it wwould be a quick spin to Knock airport where he could get Airforce One over to Britain. Wouldn't need to stop at the Bascilica.
Unionist elected to Seanad Éireann with the support of FG and SF, what are the odds
Just saw that on the News there now.
From Markethill no less.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
From Markethill no less.
Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
From Markethill no less.
Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.
And they don't make them like him anymore
Jaysus, next we'll see Arlene serving communion at the Pope's mass in Knock.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 27, 2018, 07:39:09 PM
Jaysus, next we'll see Arlene serving communion at the Pope's mass in Knock.
Think she's double booked .....throwing ball in in Ulster final at Clones😜
"Typical Indian"......How John Taylor described Leo Varadkar....claims it's not racist.
So many people live in a parallel universe
He's not racist though. He helps indians out ::)
:D :D :D
You couldn't make it up.
What did Leo do in particular? set up a crease on the hard shoulder of the A1?
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on May 01, 2018, 08:20:21 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
From Markethill no less.
Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.
And they don't make them like him anymore
Thank God
The current state of politics in NI clearly shows how people like Seamus and John Hume are very badly missed.
It came from two things - him previously having gotten away with hateful speech, and the horrible attitude of the unionism towards Varadkar, including them giving out about him not telling them about his visit, when he had correctly followed protocol.
Stalford and Swann getting congratulated on twitter for 'calling it out' - when they and their parties have at least some responsibility for it. Scumbags.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:31:08 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on May 01, 2018, 08:20:21 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
From Markethill no less.
Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.
And they don't make them like him anymore
Thank God
The current state of politics in NI clearly shows how people like Seamus and John Hume are very badly missed.
John Hume yes Seamus Mallon no.
What did Seamus do?
Wee Jeffrey says Varadkar did not follow British protocol, but Leo says he did. Is wee Jeffrey going to apologise?
Quote from: Orior on May 01, 2018, 08:51:25 AM
Wee Jeffrey says Varadkar did not follow British protocol, but Leo says he did. Is wee Jeffrey going to apologise?
They never apologise
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
What did Seamus do?
He called SF out on their hypocrisy.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 09:32:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
What did Seamus do?
He called SF out on their hypocrisy.
He was never afraid to call a spade a spade.
That's the sort of nonsense line you'd have heard from Trump supporters during the presidential election - "he calls a spade a spade". Lots of people call a spade a spade, but what they say can still be nasty and bitter.
Seamus Mallon was as nasty and bitter as they come. It was he (along with Joe Hendron and others in the SDLP) who orchestrated a vindictive, backstabbing campaign against John Hume and generally made life misery for Hume when he began talking to SF. He's a man who described the population of West Belfast as "savages" (something he has never apologised for). It was he who described the killers of 12 year old Majella O'Hare as "the crucifiers of Ireland", only to later discover that it was the British Army who killed her and not the IRA as he had been proclaiming to the world. He is a man who has stated that he regrets not siding with David Trimble in trying to "exclude" SF from government in the lead up to decommissioning. It was interesting to see his attitude in the recent documentary on Gerry Adams by Vincent Browne. Every last participant in the documentary, summing up Adams at the end (including his staunchest critics), gave him credit for his work for peace and/or his leadership skills. Except for one: Seamus Mallon, who used it as an opportunity to expose his sheer bitterness. The man never got over democracy. Sinn Féin steamrolled the SDLP and he has never gotten over it and that is his big problem.
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 01, 2018, 07:52:37 AM
:D :D :D
You couldn't make it up.
What did Leo do in particular? set up a crease on the hard shoulder of the A1?
Probably promoting that curried yoghurt.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
What did Seamus do?
Whinger, still is and fought against Hume at every step. The current state of the SDLP is a result of the personal fiefdoms Mallon, Rodgers and other key figures constructed, ultimately allowing the Shinners to rout them.
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 02, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
What did Seamus do?
Whinger, still is and fought against Hume at every step. The current state of the SDLP is a result of the personal fiefdoms Mallon, Rodgers and other key figures constructed, ultimately allowing the Shinners to rout them.
I had occasion to engage with Seamus Mallon on various issues in the late 90s and early 2000s. Quite an abrasive character and very difficult to deal with.
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein. He was proven right as they and their 'friends' in DUP totally undermined everything the first Stormount government tried to do. Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves. 20 years on from GFA and what has been achieved? Yes we have no real violence, army off the streets, but take a look at the state of Health, Education, Economy etc.
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????
Quote from: Hereiam on May 02, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????
20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 02, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????
20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂
Like the south and the UK are any different, not to mention the US and plenty of other countries.
Quote from: ziggysego on May 02, 2018, 06:50:19 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 02, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????
20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂
Like the south and the UK are any different, not to mention the US and plenty of other countries.
Agree 100%, most are self serving assholes.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 07:44:58 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 02, 2018, 06:50:19 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 02, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????
20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂
Like the south and the UK are any different, not to mention the US and plenty of other countries.
Agree 100%, most are self serving assholes.
The South could be run without politicians for a while- as long as the global economy is stable-ish the money comes in. NI is much weaker and weakening all the time.
The 2 bits of Ireland could be compared to say a hurler and someone with dodgy hips. NI needs extensive therapy and a good doctor. And it has the DUP.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 02, 2018, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.
So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 03, 2018, 08:50:49 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 02, 2018, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.
So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.
Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.
The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.
The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 09:00:26 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 03, 2018, 08:50:49 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 02, 2018, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.
So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.
Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.
The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.
The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.
This is the difficulty for the SDLP, few can argue that they have made a massive contribution over several years, and most of the foreward thinking changes have the fingerprints of SDLP architects all over them : fair employment law and GFA being just two of these. In many ways they have been the true leaders of conflict resolution here, and under John Hume made the ultimate political sacrifice of risking electoral loss and their very existence , in the interests of peace. Seamus Mallon on the other hand has been exposed as party political minnow defined by his palpable antagonism to SF. John Hume was a true giant, with his humanist and altruistic values overriding party political or even patriotic concerns. His was the correct decision , but has left a party struggling for its identity, as to put it very simply , it represented non-violent republicanism during the conflict , vigorously but constitutionally fighting for rights. Now that the conflict is over, it appears to be fighting a battle it can't win against Sinn Féin. Most "nationalist" voters see little difference between the policies of SF and SDLP , but will usually favour SF as their history of standing up to Britain for over 100 years is more attractive to most "nationalist" voters. This is something the SDLP needs to reflect on. They have always espoused the equality and respect agenda now claimed by Sinn Féin. They do their founders and activists no favours by actually diluting the strength of this agenda, by being distracted in waging a war against SF which they can never win. Regrettably some in their ranks continue to treat SF as the "great unwashed", citing their violent past. Though many would argue that this antagonism has more to do with classist snobbery.
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past. Most of the leaders in the republic over the past 100 years came directly or indirectly from a violent background. Perhaps it was easier , because both FF and FG had blood on their hands from previous conflict and therefore neither could really past judgement on each other. Also , They were often too busy dealing with "real" issues like the economy etc.
I think the SDLP need to get to the stage where , instead of basking in their past political contribution and their clean hands, they should get their architects to work on building a new Ireland and focus on the equality and respect agenda which unites 85% of this island, rather than petty squabbling and antagonism towards a much stronger SF who will be willing partners in such an equality strategy.
SDLP should remember that the real enemy here, and the reason for ongoing conflict and lack of progress are the DUP. They need to be brave enough to sideline these dinosaurs, for once and for all , and see where it takes us. They can only do it along with their equality partners eg SF , Alliance etc, and it doesn't serve the SDLP well to distract focus from the DUP by concentrating on SF.
Personally I'm fed up of living in a political backwater, led by bedgrudging or even bullying unionism. We are on the threshold of bringing this dominance to an end, and replacing it with equality and respect for all. The SDLP have the ability and kudos within their ranks to be potential leaders in that process, but they can't do it by trying to paint DUP and SF as the joint enemy !
Obvious starting place is the next Westminster Election by not splitting the Nationalist vote in the likes of North and South Belfast.
Also tacitly supporting Alliance in Constituencies where there's a small Nationalist population.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2018, 11:26:45 AM
Obvious starting place is the next Westminster Election by not splitting the Nationalist vote in the likes of North and South Belfast.
Also tacitly supporting Alliance in Constituencies where there's a small Nationalist population.
The SDLP are more concerned about how they are seen in the media as they regularly trot out the line of not wanting these marginals to become a sectarian head count.
Doesn't seem to bother the DUP and UUP when the need arises.
They should concentrate on the Electorate.
How many votes have the media?
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 09:00:26 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 03, 2018, 08:50:49 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 02, 2018, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.
So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.
Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.
The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.
The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.
This is the difficulty for the SDLP, few can argue that they have made a massive contribution over several years, and most of the foreward thinking changes have the fingerprints of SDLP architects all over them : fair employment law and GFA being just two of these. In many ways they have been the true leaders of conflict resolution here, and under John Hume made the ultimate political sacrifice of risking electoral loss and their very existence , in the interests of peace. Seamus Mallon on the other hand has been exposed as party political minnow defined by his palpable antagonism to SF. John Hume was a true giant, with his humanist and altruistic values overriding party political or even patriotic concerns. His was the correct decision , but has left a party struggling for its identity, as to put it very simply , it represented non-violent republicanism during the conflict , vigorously but constitutionally fighting for rights. Now that the conflict is over, it appears to be fighting a battle it can't win against Sinn Féin. Most "nationalist" voters see little difference between the policies of SF and SDLP , but will usually favour SF as their history of standing up to Britain for over 100 years is more attractive to most "nationalist" voters. This is something the SDLP needs to reflect on. They have always espoused the equality and respect agenda now claimed by Sinn Féin. They do their founders and activists no favours by actually diluting the strength of this agenda, by being distracted in waging a war against SF which they can never win. Regrettably some in their ranks continue to treat SF as the "great unwashed", citing their violent past. Though many would argue that this antagonism has more to do with classist snobbery.
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past. Most of the leaders in the republic over the past 100 years came directly or indirectly from a violent background. Perhaps it was easier , because both FF and FG had blood on their hands from previous conflict and therefore neither could really past judgement on each other. Also , They were often too busy dealing with "real" issues like the economy etc.
I think the SDLP need to get to the stage where , instead of basking in their past political contribution and their clean hands, they should get their architects to work on building a new Ireland and focus on the equality and respect agenda which unites 85% of this island, rather than petty squabbling and antagonism towards a much stronger SF who will be willing partners in such an equality strategy.
SDLP should remember that the real enemy here, and the reason for ongoing conflict and lack of progress are the DUP. They need to be brave enough to sideline these dinosaurs, for once and for all , and see where it takes us. They can only do it along with their equality partners eg SF , Alliance etc, and it doesn't serve the SDLP well to distract focus from the DUP by concentrating on SF.
Personally I'm fed up of living in a political backwater, led by bedgrudging or even bullying unionism. We are on the threshold of bringing this dominance to an end, and replacing it with equality and respect for all. The SDLP have the ability and kudos within their ranks to be potential leaders in that process, but they can't do it by trying to paint DUP and SF as the joint enemy !
Can't disagree with any of that.
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.
One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.
explain how they rig elections. im intrigued
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 03, 2018, 01:45:16 PM
explain how they rig elections. im intrigued
Widespread voter fraud using proxy votes.
Go on
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.
One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.
I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.
One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 03, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.
One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.
I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.
One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.
If that makes you feel better then well and good, but it is a symbolic gesture as you don't actually need a polling card to cast your vote. ;)
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 02:38:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 03, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.
One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.
I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.
One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.
If that makes you feel better then well and good, but it is a symbolic gesture as you don't actually need a polling card to cast your vote. ;)
Fair enough, didn't know that. And it does make me feel better ;)
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.
Its fairly clear you haven't the first notion what you are talking about, but I suppose you're in the right place, so plough ahead.
Because my opinion differs from yours?
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2018, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2018, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.
Has there ever been a more clueless comment.
Define normal politics. Like the everyday politics of the rust belt, Trump, Brexit, North Korea, Syria, Israel, Cambridge Analytica, the huge gains made by the Scottish Conservatives?
SF will bring home the bacon, a UI is coming and there will be serious bed wetting by west brits, quislings and some Unionists when it does.
Shinnerbots. Assemble!
Bed wetters of the world unite!
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
You could also add that in analysing nationalist voting intentions to a UI it is not a yes no question. The type of UI needs to be established and any process towards it will take time and financial support from the EU/Britain/ROI. Things like the health service, public jobs etc will take some time to change and people will not want to be worse of, but it is achieveable.
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
I'd say that was always the case but with Sinn Féin being toxic to most the SDLP was the only other option. Once Sinn Féin came in from the cold the SDLP didn't realign their policies accordingly and that maybe was because they misjudged their electorate and also their unionists bed fellows in that a "shared" entity that was NI was workable.
How wrong were they!
Quote from: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
I'd say that was always the case but with Sinn Féin being toxic to most the SDLP was the only other option. Once Sinn Féin came in from the cold the SDLP didn't realign their policies accordingly and that maybe was because they misjudged their electorate and also their unionists bed fellows in that a "shared" entity that was NI was workable.
How wrong were they!
Not sure that many in Sdlp didn't want a UI. I have known several SDLP voters and politicians , who were as passionate about a UI as SF, just that the violence didn't sit well with them , sometimes due to guidance from the Catholic Church .
Most were prepared to work in making this state as fair and successful as possible, in the knowledge that a UI was inevitable in the long term. A valid viewpoint as they wanted to ensure health education jobs and equality were not neglected as we wait on a UI
This state in its present form seems to be ungovernable, a spirit of generosity from unionism could still secure a strong future for British identity on this Island, but the DUP need to be put to the pin of their collars, as there's only one way to stand up to a bully. Their self obsessed shorttermism needs to be countered at every turn, and only an United equality agenda can do that . SDLP have an opportunity to lead that in terms of ethos if not numbers, but they are doing a disservice to that cause by tarring SF with the same brush as DUP. SF for their part need to put more meat on the bones of how they see a new ireland. Focussing on partnership with equality colleagues, and avoiding winding up middle of the road unionism is the key, in my opinion.
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
There's a lot of truth in that. I have nothing but respect for John Hume but I think he spent so much time in Strasbourg that he ended up losing touch with what was going on on the ground. That "post-nationalist" stuff was baffling to me at the time and it's baffling to me now. The nationalist aspiration and "this is our land" mentality is as strong as ever, and rightly so in my opinion.
Quote from: tiempo on May 03, 2018, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2018, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.
Has there ever been a more clueless comment.
Define normal politics. Like the everyday politics of the rust belt, Trump, Brexit, North Korea, Syria, Israel, Cambridge Analytica, the huge gains made by the Scottish Conservatives?
SF will bring home the bacon, a UI is coming and there will be serious bed wetting by west brits, quislings and some Unionists when it does.
When?
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2018, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
There's a lot of truth in that. I have nothing but respect for John Hume but I think he spent so much time in Strasbourg that he ended up losing touch with what was going on on the ground. That "post-nationalist" stuff was baffling to me at the time and it's baffling to me now. The nationalist aspiration and "this is our land" mentality is as strong as ever, and rightly so in my opinion.
What I took/take from it was that it was more of a political ideology where the concept of sovereign nationalism on a European or global would begin to wane as apolitical system
.
Only a century or three premature perhaps and way over the heads of the ordinary man in the street myself included who as a young buck starting to vote around that time was confused as to why they called themselves nationalist but never talked about a UI,wasnt even in their manifesto! Which in my naivety was my main priority in voting at the time.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2018, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.
I fear that it is not only the Shinners who are bitter and twisted ;).
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2018, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.
In my post anumber of pages back about the Gerry Adams documentary, I specifically noted that of all the opponents of Adams to contribute to the documentary, Mallon was the ONLY one to come across as bitter and twisted. If you are going to make a personal attack on me, at least ground it in fact.
As for the rest of your post, I'm at an absolute loss as to what point you're trying to make.
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Good analysis. The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum. They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists. They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly. A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF. Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
I'd say that was always the case but with Sinn Féin being toxic to most the SDLP was the only other option. Once Sinn Féin came in from the cold the SDLP didn't realign their policies accordingly and that maybe was because they misjudged their electorate and also their unionists bed fellows in that a "shared" entity that was NI was workable.
How wrong were they!
Not sure that many in Sdlp didn't want a UI. I have known several SDLP voters and politicians , who were as passionate about a UI as SF, just that the violence didn't sit well with them , sometimes due to guidance from the Catholic Church .
Most were prepared to work in making this state as fair and successful as possible, in the knowledge that a UI was inevitable in the long term. A valid viewpoint as they wanted to ensure health education jobs and equality were not neglected as we wait on a UI
This state in its present form seems to be ungovernable, a spirit of generosity from unionism could still secure a strong future for British identity on this Island, but the DUP need to be put to the pin of their collars, as there's only one way to stand up to a bully. Their self obsessed shorttermism needs to be countered at every turn, and only an United equality agenda can do that . SDLP have an opportunity to lead that in terms of ethos if not numbers, but they are doing a disservice to that cause by tarring SF with the same brush as DUP. SF for their part need to put more meat on the bones of how they see a new ireland. Focussing on partnership with equality colleagues, and avoiding winding up middle of the road unionism is the key, in my opinion.
If they did then the party leaders hid those aims well for many's a year.
The SDLP were correct that getting equality in Education, Jobs, health are indeed day to day more important, but at the same time the nationalist electorate were beginning to make it clear that a UI needed to be on the table, the SDLP seemed to be more interested in keeping the middle ground and aspirations for a UI have only come to the fore in the last 10 years or so when the damage is done.
They were also banking on Unionism meeting them in that middle ground and that didn't happen.
They needed new blood with something to offer and that's a bit lacking at the minute.
In saying that the new offerings from Sinn Féin don't really instill much confidence either.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
The Southern establishment really do fear a resurgent Sinn Féin having a big say in the Dáil and will do almost anything to get in the way of that.
The hypocrisy from FF and FG is laughable but doesn't get called out in the media who're their lackies anyway.
By and large the Southern media fed the 26 counties population a very one sided view of the troubles.
Tubridy getting handed his arse back to him by Gerry Adams was a case in point;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlTtudovPM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlTtudovPM)
I suspect those days are over and climb downs are imminent (if disguised) - SF will be needed in the south in the near future. New leadership now means they can perhaps do it saving as much face as possible from their previous ludicrous positions.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 09:27:29 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2018, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.
In my post anumber of pages back about the Gerry Adams documentary, I specifically noted that of all the opponents of Adams to contribute to the documentary, Mallon was the ONLY one to come across as bitter and twisted. If you are going to make a personal attack on me, at least ground it in fact.
As for the rest of your post, I'm at an absolute loss as to what point you're trying to make.
Personal attack? Where? Nice deflection, now is Gerry a hypocrite or not? Simple yes or no.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2018, 11:12:24 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html
Bunting is a head case. She was thrown out of the TUV, even Jim Allister couldn't have her!
Quote from: AQMP on May 04, 2018, 11:17:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2018, 11:12:24 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html
Bunting is a head case. She was thrown out of the TUV, even Jim Allister couldn't have her!
yet she gets enough votes to sit on a council! :-\ :o
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2018, 11:12:24 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html
Her Queen's English is good 😜
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
You're emphasising the point I'm trying to make. The attitude from the southern establishment (Ff/Fg) and media towards SF is hypocritical. Especially since their attitude to each other since the foundation of the state has been as political rivals, and despite their origins from the civil war, they proved they could put those differences behind them . In the more recent conflict , SDLP and more so the southern establishment and media , continue to treat SF as pariahs , presumably because they feel it is party politically advantageous for them to denigrate SF.
As a result of this pArty political approach , they dilute the equality agenda which 85% of this Island would buy in to , and let the DUP dinosaurs off the hook time and again, they should hang their heads in shame!
Teflon Arlene on this morning Andrew Marr show....should be good😩
Minus the crown brooch too..
Quote from: 6th sam on May 04, 2018, 03:33:24 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
You're emphasising the point I'm trying to make. The attitude from the southern establishment (Ff/Fg) and media towards SF is hypocritical. Especially since their attitude to each other since the foundation of the state has been as political rivals, and despite their origins from the civil war, they proved they could put those differences behind them . In the more recent conflict , SDLP and more so the southern establishment and media , continue to treat SF as pariahs , presumably because they feel it is party politically advantageous for them to denigrate SF.
As a result of this pArty political approach , they dilute the equality agenda which 85% of this Island would buy in to , and let the DUP dinosaurs off the hook time and again, they should hang their heads in shame!
All political parties North and South are the same. They will take whatever action is necessary to suit their agenda and don't try and tell us Sinn Fein is better or worse than the rest. At local level in the Republic all parties cooperate and support each other in the council chamber andSinn Fein are as good at this as anyone else.
Sinn Fein refused to cooperate in the formation of a Government at the last election saying that they would not enter Government as a junior party. Now they see that FF and FG could freeze them out by having the Confidence and Supply arrangement with whichever of the two that has the highest number of seats calling the shots (no pun intended).
In any case SFs high tax, magic beans economic policy and make believe socialism will be shown up again at the next election by the big parties and the hard left P.B.P.
Avondhu star, who is best to bring me unification of our island?
The Irish people?
Quote from: Orior on May 06, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
Avondhu star, who is best to bring me unification of our island?
Unify the people first
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Exactly.
It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc
This could also be in the Darwin award or WTF threads
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/arlene-fosters-red-line-on-europe-biggest-issue-is-northern-ireland-staying-in-the-uk-not-whether-we-should-leave-customs-union-36879329.html
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Exactly.
It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc
Did you expect them to compromise?!
The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-44009431/lord-kilclooney-deletes-typical-indian-tweet-but-does-not-apologise
The people in England don't give a flying fcuk about N.I. .....it may as well be on mars......can you blame them with arrogance like above.
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
She's not the leader of the 6 Cos, just nominal leader of the DUP, a 17th Century political party.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 10:40:00 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Exactly.
It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc
Did you expect them to compromise?!
The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.
Well seeing the I.R.A. were hopping into bed with the real Nazi party while Belfast was being bombed by the Luftwaffe maybe you shouldn't criticise the democratically elected D.U.P. for supporting the democratically elected Conservatives
Were the Nazi's not democratically elected in Germany???
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
I thought the interview with Andrew Mar on Sunday was pathetic, he let her have a completely free run and let he spot some blatant lies and half truths.
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 04:48:33 PM
Were the Nazi's not democratically elected in Germany???
Correct. But then they went about making sure they wouldnt have to worry about democracy after that. The D.U.P. and the Tories will stand down if they dont have a majority the next time
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 07, 2018, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 10:40:00 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Exactly.
It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc
Did you expect them to compromise?!
The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.
Well seeing the I.R.A. were hopping into bed with the real Nazi party while Belfast was being bombed by the Luftwaffe maybe you shouldn't criticise the democratically elected D.U.P. for supporting the democratically elected Conservatives
I didn't criticise the DUP. But I will now.
The DUP would support any government action. Should the British government decide to nuke any country, impose any amount of cuts/tax etc, they'd back them to the hilt. Anything else, and it just wouldn't be the British thing to do, and they are so british, don't you know.
At the same time, the Tories were screwed and their only choice was to hop into bed with the DUP. The DUP ego swelled up, they felt even more important and even more british (if that's even possible). In reality, they were used by the Tories.
But that's politics, it's a disgusting cesspit of horseshite.
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
Are you for real?
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
Would that be the Mary Lou approach or just the antics from a half pissed barstool so called republican
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
You should reflect on that statement. Regardless of Arlene's anti-Irish viewpoint, you can't defend the indefensible , putting children in jeopardy as happened in that attack is absolutely appalling regardless of any other factors
Quote from: 6th sam on May 07, 2018, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
You should reflect on that statement. Regardless of Arlene's anti-Irish viewpoint, you can't defend the indefensible , putting children in jeopardy as happened in that attack is absolutely appalling regardless of any other factors
Removed it. My point was lost in the post.
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 07:33:37 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 07, 2018, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
You should reflect on that statement. Regardless of Arlene's anti-Irish viewpoint, you can't defend the indefensible , putting children in jeopardy as happened in that attack is absolutely appalling regardless of any other factors
Removed it. My point was lost in the post.
Your point was clear as day.
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
That's what they have in common with S.F.
The magic beans economic policies
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 07, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
That's what they have in common with S.F.
The magic beans economic policies
We the electorate are to blame....no one else. A simple cry of no surrender or tiocfaidh ar la usually gets them heading to the ballot boxes.
Acceptance of each other's traditions has to happen if there is going to be any progress......I keep going back to 'you can't eat a flag'.
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
Maybe they're going to try the "eat the fleg" approach.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 09:02:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
Maybe they're going to try the "eat the fleg" approach.
Well they have certainly been trying to ram it down peoples throats!
Quote from: HiMucker on May 07, 2018, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 09:02:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
Maybe they're going to try the "eat the fleg" approach.
Well they have certainly been trying to ram it down peoples throats!
Contentious marches are few and far between now, compared to days gone by. The vast majority of people are too busy getting on with life, yet the minority hog the headlines......I think if they weren't given the oxygen of media attention they would die out. Here's hoping👍
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
This is all part of the general Unionist insanity. They can't see beyond the end of their noses. If Corbyn is next PM they're screwed, if they had sense they'd be trying to build a relationship with him, but no they can't see that far ahead. Eventually Catholics will be in the majority n NI and a border poll will be inevitable. They should be working to make NI a comfortable place for the many 'middle of the road' Catholics who may not be dyed in the wool nationalists but no, they refuse an Irish language act,support GSTQ at football matches etc and therefore antagonise these people making a United Ireland more inevitable.
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
I appreciate it may not be easy for some people to move on but alot who had it alot worse than arlene have decided its the best for everyone if they can make pesve eith what wemt on.
I just think that its fooked up that she as someone in a position of leadership is so bitter that she pollutes the population and uses every opportunity to tell anyone who'll listen that she suffered at the hands of the provos.
But then again maybe im on my own on that one!
I wondered that myself but i think she is just one of those kind of people who would be bitter if she had nothing to be bitter about.
They never mention douglas herd, of the tories, met the ira before corbyn.
Michaelg what is your view of foster?
Quote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
There are many of us with very up close and personal experience of the troubles and it is not easy to let that go. However Foster takes every opportunity to remind us.
A lot of criticism for the DUP. However some posters need to remember that they have the largest vote share of any party in NI. So while you may not agree with what they have to say around 30% of the electorate do.
As someone said earlier, unite the people, then we can unite the country. 50%+1 is unrealistic in the near to medium term. We'd want to be convincing people of the benefits of UI.
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2018, 09:30:53 AM
A lot of criticism for the DUP. However some posters need to remember that they have the largest vote share of any party in NI. So while you may not agree with what they have to say around 30% of the electorate do.
As someone said earlier, unite the people, then we can unite the country. 50%+1 is unrealistic in the near to medium term. We'd want to be convincing people of the benefits of UI.
In my view 50+1 at any time is not sustainable. I would be a nationalist and would prefer a UI. However as things stand I would not vote yes in a referendum unless I was convinced that there was no threat of violence, that at my age healthcare is guaranteed, that my income will be comeasurate with what I earn now in relation to any future cost of living, ie I'd be no worse off. that is SF's challenge in the first instance before they convince soft unionists.
You left out the bit where the Sun is guaranteed to shine all day and rain will only fall at night.
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.
Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.
Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.
That which will convince unionists, in practical terms, will certainly convince 'nationalists'
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 09:38:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2018, 09:30:53 AM
A lot of criticism for the DUP. However some posters need to remember that they have the largest vote share of any party in NI. So while you may not agree with what they have to say around 30% of the electorate do.
As someone said earlier, unite the people, then we can unite the country. 50%+1 is unrealistic in the near to medium term. We'd want to be convincing people of the benefits of UI.
In my view 50+1 at any time is not sustainable. I would be a nationalist and would prefer a UI. However as things stand I would not vote yes in a referendum unless I was convinced that there was no threat of violence, that at my age healthcare is guaranteed, that my income will be comeasurate with what I earn now in relation to any future cost of living, ie I'd be no worse off. that is SF's challenge in the first instance before they convince soft unionists.
And with a UI as it currently stands there would be no chance of any of that being guaranteed.........and not for the forseeable future. In fact I dont even think in our lifetime unfortunately
There isn't a " UI as it currentry stands".
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 10:49:07 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.
Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.
That's incorrect. There are plenty on the nationalist side who will forget their nationalism if they are hit in the pocket
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 08, 2018, 01:17:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 10:49:07 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.
Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.
That's incorrect. There are plenty on the nationalist side who will forget their nationalism if they are hit in the picket
Not forget their identity but would need to be reassured that unity will not impoverish them to any extent.
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
It's all of the above.
Brexit brings with it many unknowns and Arlene has in her gift (or maybe wee Nige is the brains of the outfit) to make the wee 6 a gateway between both markets post March 2019.
If she does that and NI becomes economically interesting for global firms to have a foot in both camps then the United Ireland debate will be off the table, the small n nationalists won't be interested.
A hard brexit possibly could spell economic disaster for NI as it's already a basket case within the UK with a good bit of investment coming from the EU. With that cut off then Westminster governments may spend their time fire fighting in the more lucrative home counties to appease their voting base marginalising NI even further.
Then small n nationalists and small u unionists may have their heads turned towards Dublin as somewhere else to put bread on their tables.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 08, 2018, 02:49:41 PM
It's all of the above.
Brexit brings with it many unknowns and Arlene has in her gift (or maybe wee Nige is the brains of the outfit) to make the wee 6 a gateway between both markets post March 2019.
If she does that and NI becomes economically interesting for global firms to have a foot in both camps then the United Ireland debate will be off the table, the small n nationalists won't be interested.
A hard brexit possibly could spell economic disaster for NI as it's already a basket case within the UK with a good bit of investment coming from the EU. With that cut off then Westminster governments may spend their time fire fighting in the more lucrative home counties to appease their voting base marginalising NI even further.
Then small n nationalists and small u unionists may have their heads turned towards Dublin as somewhere else to put bread on their tables.
Very true - Thats why I believe that Arlene is now up there with Wolfe Tone, Pearse, McGuinness as one of the major driving forces behind getting rid of the British - Long may she reign (or not reign as is the case)
'How much it will cost' is a popular refrain, but its short-sighted and misses the point. Over the longer term, a single entity Ireland will be a greater economic unit than that of the current two parts, and everyone will reap the benefits of that. It seems particularly strange that those in the North, currently an economic basket case (and path to which can be directly apportioned to partition), would query whether it will be economically worth it - it would appear to be caution of a dangerous level to settle for what you have when the evidence points clearly to how much better you and your descendants could be doing.
Of course most people will just worry about the short term, and if they're told they'll be £100 worse off next year they won't go for it, but even that won't be the case. The economic benefits will become clearer as the situation develops; it will be in the interests of pretty much all those involved for it to happen, so the UK, Ireland, EU, US, will all pump money in to ensure there is the right vote - in other words a unification dividend will sort out the short term grumblers, and the greater economic power of a single Irish unit will deliver in the longer term
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:02:13 PM
'How much it will cost' is a popular refrain, but its short-sighted and misses the point. Over the longer term, a single entity Ireland will be a greater economic unit than that of the current two parts, and everyone will reap the benefits of that. It seems particularly strange that those in the North, currently an economic basket case (and path to which can be directly apportioned to partition), would query whether it will be economically worth it - it would appear to be caution of a dangerous level to settle for what you have when the evidence points clearly to how much better you and your descendants could be doing.
Of course most people will just worry about the short term, and if they're told they'll be £100 worse off next year they won't go for it, but even that won't be the case. The economic benefits will become clearer as the situation develops; it will be in the interests of pretty much all those involved for it to happen, so the UK, Ireland, EU, US, will all pump money in to ensure there is the right vote - in other words a unification dividend will sort out the short term grumblers, and the greater economic power of a single Irish unit will deliver in the longer term
As a man of a certain age, I need to know that any upward shift in the cost of living which is inevitable will be met in an lift in my income and that my healthcare is guaranteed, I won't get affordable VHI/BUPA.
And that will probably be the most common position. I didn't mean to be disparaging by referring to 'short-term grumblers' - people have to look after themselves and ensure they have the best future they can - but I believe those grumbles will be well alleviated by the time a vote comes round, i.e. there will be money available so as to give immediate, rather than merely aspirational economic benefits
I have written it here before that with demographic trends all onus is on unionist parties to broaden their appeal. The Shinners need to not drop too many balls (loaves on head etc..) and time will do their job. Whereas for unionist parties to even delay this they need to get nationalists, with a small n, to buy into the status quo. However despite some efforts from UUP, each party seems to look over their party to next extreme. UUP must play to the gallery not to lose (even more) ground to DUP who in turn are watching the TUV. However, this effort to be top dog within their tribe seems to be at the expense of the unionist cause as a whole.
The second trend I thought would happen was a broader "post nationalism" for Europe as a whole. However, Brexit has nailed that one (and the DUP have jumped on that bandwagon with gusto). In fact with the rise of anti-immigration in Eastern Europe nationalism seems to be back in vogue all around.
It's fascinating to watch, especially because there must some within political unionism that can see this but still the car hurtles towards the cliff. I say that as someone who 5 years ago would have seen no prospect of any major change in the North's political situation in my lifetime but now think change is likely.
/Jim.
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:02:13 PM
'How much it will cost' is a popular refrain, but its short-sighted and misses the point. Over the longer term, a single entity Ireland will be a greater economic unit than that of the current two parts, and everyone will reap the benefits of that. It seems particularly strange that those in the North, currently an economic basket case (and path to which can be directly apportioned to partition), would query whether it will be economically worth it - it would appear to be caution of a dangerous level to settle for what you have when the evidence points clearly to how much better you and your descendants could be doing.
Of course most people will just worry about the short term, and if they're told they'll be £100 worse off next year they won't go for it, but even that won't be the case. The economic benefits will become clearer as the situation develops; it will be in the interests of pretty much all those involved for it to happen, so the UK, Ireland, EU, US, will all pump money in to ensure there is the right vote - in other words a unification dividend will sort out the short term grumblers, and the greater economic power of a single Irish unit will deliver in the longer term
If the U.S.give anything substantial they will want something in return.
Hank in the Rust belt won't want to be subsidising us fornothing
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 08, 2018, 04:15:58 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:02:13 PM
'How much it will cost' is a popular refrain, but its short-sighted and misses the point. Over the longer term, a single entity Ireland will be a greater economic unit than that of the current two parts, and everyone will reap the benefits of that. It seems particularly strange that those in the North, currently an economic basket case (and path to which can be directly apportioned to partition), would query whether it will be economically worth it - it would appear to be caution of a dangerous level to settle for what you have when the evidence points clearly to how much better you and your descendants could be doing.
Of course most people will just worry about the short term, and if they're told they'll be £100 worse off next year they won't go for it, but even that won't be the case. The economic benefits will become clearer as the situation develops; it will be in the interests of pretty much all those involved for it to happen, so the UK, Ireland, EU, US, will all pump money in to ensure there is the right vote - in other words a unification dividend will sort out the short term grumblers, and the greater economic power of a single Irish unit will deliver in the longer term
If the U.S.give anything substantial they will want something in return.
Hank in the Rust belt won't want to be subsidising us fornothing
We'll send his bleached chicken and steroid ridden beef to Cork....
Or let their military use Shannon airport... :-[
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
And that will probably be the most common position. I didn't mean to be disparaging by referring to 'short-term grumblers' - people have to look after themselves and ensure they have the best future they can - but I believe those grumbles will be well alleviated by the time a vote comes round, i.e. there will be money available so as to give immediate, rather than merely aspirational economic benefits
You've made some very good points haranguerer.
There are issues in the South that many Northerners would want to see tackled. Housing and homelessness being a major one. The South needs to tackle these effectively. Reunification will throw up lots of hurdles expected and unexpected. Being able to demonstrate an ability to tackle them would be key.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Good question! Well?
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Responding to SF supporter Apples who said he won't be voting for a UI if it hurts his pocket.
But sure why not turn it into another "Free State" bashing rant.
To the chap worried about housing g and homeless -when the first vote comes around that will be long in the past.
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 08, 2018, 01:17:15 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 10:49:07 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.
Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.
That's incorrect. There are plenty on the nationalist side who will forget their nationalism if they are hit in the picket
Is that you, Officer Crabtree? ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 05:36:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Responding to SF supporter Apples who said he won't be voting for a UI if it hurts his pocket.
But sure why not turn it into another "Free State" bashing rant.
To the chap worried about housing g and homeless -when the first vote comes around that will be long in the past.
Fair point, even As a northerner , I'm with u on this one.
Some northern nationalists could benefit from reflecting on their antagonism towards the "free state". We're unlikely to get unionists on board for a UI, if we can't even treat fellow nationalists south of the border with respect. We should reflect on reasons why many southern nationalists resent us. We could start by admitting that a fair percentage of northern nationalists have been in favour of partition right from the start!
The key to a UI , is promoting a respect and equality agenda , which would harness at least 85% support throughout the island and would secure international including UK backing and subsidisation.
Civil war and troubles politics though remembered will become irrelevant by comparison to equality and the economy.
I laugh at the short termism of so-called nationalists from the North who won't countenance a UI if it costs them a single penny. Do they not see that NI is economically a backwater, and the status quo will result in serious financial hardship in the medium and even short term
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2018, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
And that will probably be the most common position. I didn't mean to be disparaging by referring to 'short-term grumblers' - people have to look after themselves and ensure they have the best future they can - but I believe those grumbles will be well alleviated by the time a vote comes round, i.e. there will be money available so as to give immediate, rather than merely aspirational economic benefits
You've made some very good points haranguerer.
There are issues in the South that many Northerners would want to see tackled. Housing and homelessness being a major one. The South needs to tackle these effectively. Reunification will throw up lots of hurdles expected and unexpected. Being able to demonstrate an ability to tackle them would be key.
And that's why it isn't only Sinn Fein needs to welcome unionists. All pro unity parties should be making the case
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 05:36:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Responding to SF supporter Apples who said he won't be voting for a UI if it hurts his pocket.
But sure why not turn it into another "Free State" bashing rant.
To the chap worried about housing g and homeless -when the first vote comes around that will be long in the past.
I wasn't really talking specifically about your reply to Apples. It was just that your reply prompted me to ask the question, as it's one that I often find myself wondering about.
Northern Ireland was set up as an Orange statelet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOdFQloocLg
but the geographical spread of Orange people was too narrow so a large geographical space with Taigs had to be added to make the project viable in the short term.
Rüdiger Dornbusch, a US-based German economist, said : "The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.
J. K. Galbraith said :"The conventional wisdom" gives way not so much to new ideas as to "the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend".
Arlene Foster does not understond what is happening either in terms of NI demographics or in terms of the UK economy.
Someone else has to tell the Orange people what is going on and how to deal with it.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 05:36:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Responding to SF supporter Apples who said he won't be voting for a UI if it hurts his pocket.
But sure why not turn it into another "Free State" bashing rant.
To the chap worried about housing g and homeless -when the first vote comes around that will be long in the past.
Firstly I am not bashing the South, I object to the use of the term Free State as pejorative and my support for SF is not universal and I would be equally critical of them. Your description of my position is simplistic. Why would I not wish my income and healthcare to be protected. The cost of living in the South is higher than the North with wages also higher. At my age I could not get affordable VHI therefore I need assurances before supporting any change. I am not ruling out a UI but it can't leave people worse off that won't work. Nor will it work if we ask southerners to subsidise us. SF and other pro UI parties need to sort all this out.
Loads of people will have different views on it but IMO I would support it even if it did mean a hit on my pocket - So many people give up so much for it in the fight to get it I would feel pretty bad in myself saying well I'm going to have £5k less every year
Quote from: WT4E on May 09, 2018, 09:41:30 AM
Loads of people will have different views on it but IMO I would support it even if it did mean a hit on my pocket - So many people give up so much for it in the fight to get it I would feel pretty bad in myself saying well I'm going to have £5k less every year
Correct - many will have differing views.
If a nationalist with a small n is currently struggling to live to a decent standard of living I dont for a minute think they would be happy being £5k down to be in a UI
Apples - wasn't accusing you of "Free State" bashing if you read my post and the post I responded to.
Anyway of course economics and cost will be the decider for most.
Ifa "Border poll" was held tomorrow I'd say 40% would vote to stay with the UK no matter what, 20% for UI no matter what. Without a coherent plan for UI the other 40% will vote to stay as well.
In 20 years time we'll be at 25/35/40 but if there's a coherent plan devised etc etc hopefully that will be 40/28 and with 32 up for grabs.
Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 10:09:41 AM
Apples - wasn't accusing you of "Free State" bashing if you read my post and the post I responded to.
Anyway of course economics and cost will be the decider for most.
Ifa "Border poll" was held tomorrow I'd say 40% would vote to stay with the UK no matter what, 20% for UI no matter what. Without a coherent plan for UI the other 40% will vote to stay as well.
In 20 years time we'll be at 25/35/40 but if there's a coherent plan devised etc etc hopefully that will be 40/28 and with 32 up for grabs.
In 20 years time I think there is a good chance there will be a UI. There will most certainly have been at least one border poll. I don't expect the first one to be successful and it will take 2 or 3 to get the desired result.
Quote from: Avondhu star on May 08, 2018, 07:33:37 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2018, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
And that will probably be the most common position. I didn't mean to be disparaging by referring to 'short-term grumblers' - people have to look after themselves and ensure they have the best future they can - but I believe those grumbles will be well alleviated by the time a vote comes round, i.e. there will be money available so as to give immediate, rather than merely aspirational economic benefits
You've made some very good points haranguerer.
There are issues in the South that many Northerners would want to see tackled. Housing and homelessness being a major one. The South needs to tackle these effectively. Reunification will throw up lots of hurdles expected and unexpected. Being able to demonstrate an ability to tackle them would be key.
And that's why it isn't only Sinn Fein needs to welcome unionists. All pro unity parties should be making the case
Although imo they are making great strides in reaching out to Unionists, there is the likelihood this will not ever be reciprocated - SF will remain toxic for unionists. As a UI becomes ever more likely, there would certainly be the scenario whereby unionists could be wooed by another AI party, which would allow them to maintain their opposition to SF, probably be in a scenario where they could deny them southern/AI government, and so be able to have enough of a constant that going into an AI may not feel like the politcial upheaval it could - if they were going into a state with SF in govt for e.g. That scenario seems convoluted, but I don't think its unlikely, and if it were to be followed it would make sense for those parties who may be doing the wooing to be very gentle with it.
My point is, that we certainly need all the Irish parties to have plans for implementation of a UI, but key to at least some of those plans will be not pushing them too early, as that is just likely to isolate unionists. Unionists need to accept a UI is likely before they will listen to any plans - at this point it will just cause them to pull up the drawbridge.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Does anybody in the North have a brain or does absolutely everything come down to us v. them?
- How do you like it?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 10:15:30 AM
Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.
It can only have been hypothetical. It is much more likely that everyone would benefit.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 10:15:30 AM
Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.
It's laughable, really. Some North Koreans probably fear reunification because a carthorse costs more in the South.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/star-trek-boldly-predicting-the-return-of-the-north-in-2024-might-yet-come-to-pass/ (http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/star-trek-boldly-predicting-the-return-of-the-north-in-2024-might-yet-come-to-pass/)
QuoteExports from the Republic are €89bn while from the North, exports are a paltry €6bn. This obviously reflects multinationals, but it also underscores just how far ahead the Republic's industrial base is. Producing 15 times more exports underscores a vast difference in terms of the globalisation of business.
The Republic's economy is now four times that of the North, even though the labour force is not even two-and-a-half times bigger.
In terms of income per head, the Republic is now almost twice as rich per person as the North. The average income per head in the Republic is €39,873, while it languishes at €23,700 up North.
The differing fortunes of North and South can be easily seen in the fact that, having been smaller than Belfast at the time of partition, the population of the greater Dublin area is now almost three times bigger than the greater Belfast metropolitan region.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/northern-ireland-and-the-trip-advisor-index-of-economic-vibrancy/ (http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/northern-ireland-and-the-trip-advisor-index-of-economic-vibrancy/)
QuoteImmigration is a traditional indicator of economic vitality. In the Republic, one in six people are immigrants, the corresponding figure for the North is one in a hundred.
Yes, McWilliams sums it up well when he says (paraphrasing here) that "People from the North complain about the price of a pint in Dublin. What they really should be saying is why are my wages so low"
Quote from: AQMP on May 09, 2018, 10:41:06 AM
Yes, McWilliams sums it up well when he says (paraphrasing here) that "People from the North complain about the price of a pint in Dublin. What they really should be saying is why are my wages so low"
...or don't go near Dublin.
Benefits of unification also that there is greater potential to redress a dublin centric enonomy
Quote from: Hardy on May 09, 2018, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 10:15:30 AM
Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.
It's laughable, really. Some North Koreans probably fear reunification because a carthorse costs more in the South.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/star-trek-boldly-predicting-the-return-of-the-north-in-2024-might-yet-come-to-pass/ (http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/star-trek-boldly-predicting-the-return-of-the-north-in-2024-might-yet-come-to-pass/)
QuoteExports from the Republic are €89bn while from the North, exports are a paltry €6bn. This obviously reflects multinationals, but it also underscores just how far ahead the Republic's industrial base is. Producing 15 times more exports underscores a vast difference in terms of the globalisation of business.
The Republic's economy is now four times that of the North, even though the labour force is not even two-and-a-half times bigger.
In terms of income per head, the Republic is now almost twice as rich per person as the North. The average income per head in the Republic is €39,873, while it languishes at €23,700 up North.
The differing fortunes of North and South can be easily seen in the fact that, having been smaller than Belfast at the time of partition, the population of the greater Dublin area is now almost three times bigger than the greater Belfast metropolitan region.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/northern-ireland-and-the-trip-advisor-index-of-economic-vibrancy/ (http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/northern-ireland-and-the-trip-advisor-index-of-economic-vibrancy/)
QuoteImmigration is a traditional indicator of economic vitality. In the Republic, one in six people are immigrants, the corresponding figure for the North is one in a hundred.
Stripping out multinational fraud and 15% shenanigans, indigenous export performance isn't much better than NI.
House prices are back to boom levels and faker than Sarah Huckabee Sanders. It is all speculation. Very little investment.
http://www.worldstopexports.com/irelands-top-10-exports/
Some very interesting exports
Spacecraft?????
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 12:06:39 PM
Spacecraft?????
Exactly....I know we are spacers😜
Its looks like a set category, lumped in with aircraft
Quote from: Hardy on May 09, 2018, 10:18:18 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 08, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Does anybody in the south have principles or does absolutely everything come down to money?
Does anybody in the North have a brain or does absolutely everything come down to us v. them?
- How do you like it?
Tis hard to avoid when you have two diametrically opposed camps. There is of course a spectrum in between which some wise observers want to nurture but without joint responsibility and joint government they will eventually fall into one side of the fence or the other.
Arlene has offered to help resolve the Enniskillen remembrance memorial. I assume she thinks that she is an honest broker!
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 10:15:30 AM
Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.
Yes sorry I was speaking hypothetically.
I was making the point that it won't come down to money for everyone and you don't have to be a hardline republican to appreciate sacrifice and my view is that positive or negative economics wouldn't effect my vote and I think there would be more than 20% in that camp.
I personally think after a change over period of some years that the Island would be a lot more prosperous for everyone so I think you could change a lot of minds in terms of think of your children and the benefit that they could get from this!
Quote from: Orior on May 09, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
Arlene has offered to help resolve the Enniskillen remembrance memorial. I assume she thinks that she is an honest broker!
Basically calling out the St Michael's trust to embarrass them.
Quote from: Hardy on May 09, 2018, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2018, 10:15:30 AM
Just wondering why is it taken as a given that 6 Cos residents would be down £5k in a UI.?
Would their pay not rise to the equivalent of the 26 Co workers? ?
It's us who would likely be down €5k as things are at present.
It's laughable, really. Some North Koreans probably fear reunification because a carthorse costs more in the South.
Nice analogy :D :D
Quote from: sensethetone on May 09, 2018, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 09, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
Arlene has offered to help resolve the Enniskillen remembrance memorial. I assume she thinks that she is an honest broker!
Basically calling out the St Michael's trust to embarrass them.
What is the craic there alright?
Firstly I presume they gave the go ahead for a memorial in the first place as it would be bad manners for anyone to apply for something on someone else's property and then to pull the plug!
Is it to do with the size or wording on it as it being alluded to?
Why can they not put it elsewhere?
Quote from: Orior on May 09, 2018, 03:54:22 PM
Why can they not put it elsewhere?
Cause someone else will probably oppose it?
It's going where Arlene wants it or she'll pack her bags and go..
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2018, 03:38:42 PM
Quote from: sensethetone on May 09, 2018, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 09, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
Arlene has offered to help resolve the Enniskillen remembrance memorial. I assume she thinks that she is an honest broker!
Basically calling out the St Michael's trust to embarrass them.
What is the craic there alright?
Firstly I presume they gave the go ahead for a memorial in the first place as it would be bad manners for anyone to apply for something on someone else's property and then to pull the plug!
Is it to do with the size or wording on it as it being alluded to?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41922627
Originally planned for an area not owned by the trust. Transport NI objected as blocked a pavement, new site proposed last minute owned by church. Not suitable for there either, so church saying no. Funny not a word about Transport NI original objections, nor any effort to combat those, just the (even more valid) objections by the catholic church.
A disgusting effort to sectarianise this and smear the church imo, I hope they don't get their way.
Quote from: haranguerer on May 09, 2018, 04:09:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2018, 03:38:42 PM
Quote from: sensethetone on May 09, 2018, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 09, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
Arlene has offered to help resolve the Enniskillen remembrance memorial. I assume she thinks that she is an honest broker!
Basically calling out the St Michael's trust to embarrass them.
What is the craic there alright?
Firstly I presume they gave the go ahead for a memorial in the first place as it would be bad manners for anyone to apply for something on someone else's property and then to pull the plug!
Is it to do with the size or wording on it as it being alluded to?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41922627
Originally planned for an area not owned by the trust. Transport NI objected as blocked a pavement, new site proposed last minute owned by church. Not suitable for there either, so church saying no. Funny not a word about Transport NI original objections, nor any effort to combat those, just the (even more valid) objections by the catholic church.
A disgusting effort to sectarianise this and smear the church imo, I hope they don't get their way.
This is a pretty complex issue around planning, traffic, pedestrians, leases and sub-leases and land ownership. The site proposed by The Ely Centre (the organisation behind the memorial) is at an extremely busy traffic junction and beside the gates of a local school, therefore the footfall there is very heavy. I think this was behind the objections from Transport NI and also DFI Roads (AFAIK) given the size and nature of the memorial. The memorial was designed and built before anything was agreed with planners etc. As with a number of these events the families of the bereaved do not speak with one voice.
I don't know of anyone in Enniskillen who opposes a memorial, however I do know of several people who are unhappy with the way the organisers tried to back the Diocesan Trust into a corner and then out them as unsympathetic to or blocking a memorial to the victims. The attitude seems to have been (IMHO) "let's go ahead sure no-one will ever dare object to this".
Michael Gault not happy it was taken away on the back of a lorry, "disgraceful" he reckons.
I wonder how the memorial got there in the first place, surely not on the back of a... lorry??
Unionism is on a one horse race to the bottom.
They applied for planning permission on this piece of land without contacting the church first to see if it would be ok. They have some cheek to come out now an play the "everyone is against us" card
Quote from: Hereiam on May 09, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
They applied for planning permission on this piece of land without contacting the church first to see if it would be ok. They have some cheek to come out now an play the "everyone is against us" card
I'm curious how can you apply for planning permission on land you don't own?
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 09, 2018, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 09, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
They applied for planning permission on this piece of land without contacting the church first to see if it would be ok. They have some cheek to come out now an play the "everyone is against us" card
I'm curious how can you apply for planning permission on land you don't own?
There has been plenty of these things erected all over N.I without planning
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2018, 04:44:47 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 09, 2018, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 09, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
They applied for planning permission on this piece of land without contacting the church first to see if it would be ok. They have some cheek to come out now an play the "everyone is against us" card
I'm curious how can you apply for planning permission on land you don't own?
There has been plenty of these things erected all over N.I without planning
You can get planning permission to develop a site without the owner's permission but you must inform the landowner that you are making a planning application for the site. So you need to tell them you're making an application but you don't need their permission to do so.
Quote from: AQMP on May 09, 2018, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2018, 04:44:47 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 09, 2018, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 09, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
They applied for planning permission on this piece of land without contacting the church first to see if it would be ok. They have some cheek to come out now an play the "everyone is against us" card
I'm curious how can you apply for planning permission on land you don't own?
There has been plenty of these things erected all over N.I without planning
You can get planning permission to develop a site without the owner's permission but you must inform the landowner that you are making a planning application for the site. So you need to tell them you're making an application but you don't need their permission to do so.
Sorry but how can approval be given without the owner's consent?
Planning permission doesn't give you any right to enter someone else's land.
You don't need the owners consent to get planning approval
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2018, 04:44:47 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 09, 2018, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 09, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
They applied for planning permission on this piece of land without contacting the church first to see if it would be ok. They have some cheek to come out now an play the "everyone is against us" card
I'm curious how can you apply for planning permission on land you don't own?
There has been plenty of these things erected all over N.I without planning
Was that when there was a streaker at the Norn Iron match? ;)
Its about time Arlene wore a broach to denote which language she's speaking at any given time, she has a tendency to flit between Ulster Scots and Queens English. I'm hur tey help when translated actually means we'll get you in the long grass.
Teresa May mislaid the House of Commons yesterday with her rant about only soldiers being investigated. Maybe she should check the information being fed to her by the DUP.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44065507 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44065507)
I wouldn't imagine it was the DUP briefing her - that talk lets her off. Clearly deliberately misleading parliament is how I'd view it
Quote from: Orior on May 10, 2018, 11:36:21 AM
Teresa May mislaid the House of Commons yesterday with her rant about only soldiers being investigated. Maybe she should check the information being fed to her by the DUP.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44065507 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44065507)
Hardly a co-incidence: News today ex-soldier to face trial. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44054776
I think our elected reps have let us down badly here. People who committed crimes (on all sides) are being investigated. As they should. They should be brought to justice. If you didn't commit a crime, then you've nothing to be fearful of. They should be making this point to the government.
How did one PM put it? Yes that's right "Crime is crime is crime"
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2018, 12:21:51 PM
I think our elected reps have let us down badly here. People who committed crimes (on all sides) are being investigated. As they should. They should be brought to justice. If you didn't commit a crime, then you've nothing to be fearful of. They should be making this point to the government.
How did one PM put it? Yes that's right "Crime is crime is crime"
Really?
Quote from: AQMP on May 10, 2018, 12:25:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2018, 12:21:51 PM
I think our elected reps have let us down badly here. People who committed crimes (on all sides) are being investigated. As they should. They should be brought to justice. If you didn't commit a crime, then you've nothing to be fearful of. They should be making this point to the government.
How did one PM put it? Yes that's right "Crime is crime is crime"
Really?
+1
Quote from: Hereiam on May 10, 2018, 02:29:29 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 10, 2018, 12:25:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 10, 2018, 12:21:51 PM
I think our elected reps have let us down badly here. People who committed crimes (on all sides) are being investigated. As they should. They should be brought to justice. If you didn't commit a crime, then you've nothing to be fearful of. Unless you play rugby ;)
They should be making this point to the government.
How did one PM put it? Yes that's right "Crime is crime is crime"
Really?
+1
Fixed that
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44314654
Chairman getting v frustrated with Crawford
Arlene to speak at Orange rally in Scotland.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/snp-should-have-weightier-worries-than-arlene-foster-dup-36969161.html
All the better to prepare a new home for when Ireland reunifies.
https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1003313150836596737 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1003313150836596737)
Charm offensive is on, lads.
Quote from: LaurelEye on June 03, 2018, 06:06:30 PM
https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1003313150836596737 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1003313150836596737)
Charm offensive is on, lads.
I'm sure she's wondering what Monaghan are doing in the Ulster championship.
Quote from: LaurelEye on June 03, 2018, 06:06:30 PM
https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1003313150836596737 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1003313150836596737)
Charm offensive is on, lads.
Her gopher who does the tweeting is getting sacked in the morning.
Own up.
Who has contacted Arlene and said they love her anti-abortion policy?
So it seems the Democratic Unionist party are actually anything but Democratic...
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
So it seems the Democratic Unionist party are actually anything but Democratic...
DUP getting the middle took out of them on radio this morning
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
So it seems the Democratic Unionist party are actually anything but Democratic...
DUP getting the middle took out of them on radio this morning
Indeed. Delightful listening. ;D
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 11:38:34 AM
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
So it seems the Democratic Unionist party are actually anything but Democratic...
DUP getting the middle took out of them on radio this morning
Indeed. Delightful listening. ;D
Is this their fines policy if someone talks out of party line?
Why is anyone surprised by this?
Quote from: johnnycool on June 13, 2018, 11:42:40 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 11:38:34 AM
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
So it seems the Democratic Unionist party are actually anything but Democratic...
DUP getting the middle took out of them on radio this morning
Indeed. Delightful listening. ;D
Is this their fines policy if someone talks out of party line?
Why is anyone surprised by this?
Not really surprised but delighted that the DUP continue in the recent fashion to be shown up for the bunch of fascists that they are. If the UUP had any sort of push in them they should be able to make massive gains on the DUP but it seems they are completely incompetent.
I am far from a fan of Nolan but he is tearing lumps out of the DUP the last 12-18 months.
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 13, 2018, 11:42:40 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 11:38:34 AM
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 13, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
So it seems the Democratic Unionist party are actually anything but Democratic...
DUP getting the middle took out of them on radio this morning
Indeed. Delightful listening. ;D
Is this their fines policy if someone talks out of party line?
Why is anyone surprised by this?
Not really surprised but delighted that the DUP continue in the recent fashion to be shown up for the bunch of fascists that they are. If the UUP had any sort of push in them they should be able to make massive gains on the DUP but it seems they are completely incompetent.
I am far from a fan of Nolan but he is tearing lumps out of the DUP the last 12-18 months.
UUP can't get a foothold because DUP-SF, along with that fool Blair, hollowed out the GFA at St Andrews by ensuring that the FM would being to the party with the largest number of MLAs rather than the community and that parties would name the FM and DFM rather than seeking election from the Assembly membership.
So, for every election we have a sectarian headcount, vote for DUP to prevent SF getting FM and vote SF to get us in as FM.
If the original rule had been maintained the party numbers would be much closer and unionism would be ensured of retaining FM with UUP, DUP and TUV combined with the Independent whereas SF are within a hair's breadth of taking the FM in future elections as they build to a party majority.
Quit talking shit
Quote from: haranguerer on June 13, 2018, 02:46:36 PM
Quit talking shit
Care to elaborate or point out anything as being untrue?
You have vastly overstated the importance of first minister, both in duties and symbolically.
FM has never really been a concern for anyone at elections (notwithstanding that the DUP did use it a little to scaremonger in the last election) and it certainly has never been mentioned in relation to SF. So that part is total crap. To then attempt to link this up to explain why the UUP (and SDLP) have faded away is ludicrous.
I never mentioned the SDLP but it obviously bothers you.
FM is hugely symbolic for the DUP and unionism and it holding on to the post has been the cornerstone to DUP electioneering for virtually all assembly elections. Equally it is a key target for SF to show that it has dominated the DUP. To say otherwise is nonsense.
If DUP push on getting seating to be the largest party to retain FM post then the UUP must lose out as there is virtually no cross community voting between DUP and the SF and SDLP blocks. So, the UUP has lost ground to the DUP in every election since the St Andrews agreement.
The fact the Shinners were able to bring the whole thing down and keep it down shows that FM post is not as important as DUP would like to think. Besides, the way the demographics are going, if Stormont is still not operating by, say, 2020-21 (and I personally hope it's gone for ever), then we've witnessed our last unionist FM. How are they gonna spin that during their 'celebrations' of the centenary of the founding of the failed, putrid statelet?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 13, 2018, 03:30:40 PM
I never mentioned the SDLP but it obviously bothers you.
FM is hugely symbolic for the DUP and unionism and it holding on to the post has been the cornerstone to DUP electioneering for virtually all assembly elections. Equally it is a key target for SF to show that it has dominated the DUP. To say otherwise is nonsense.
If DUP push on getting seating to be the largest party to retain FM post then the UUP must lose out as there is virtually no cross community voting between DUP and the SF and SDLP blocks. So, the UUP has lost ground to the DUP in every election since the St Andrews agreement.
You've put the demise of the UUP over the last 10 years down to how the FM is elected. That is just utter rubbish. So is the part about SF or their voters caring about it.
Quote from: haranguerer on June 13, 2018, 03:21:52 PM
You have vastly overstated the importance of first minister, both in duties and symbolically.
FM has never really been a concern for anyone at elections (notwithstanding that the DUP did use it a little to scaremonger in the last election) and it certainly has never been mentioned in relation to SF. So that part is total crap. To then attempt to link this up to explain why the UUP (and SDLP) have faded away is ludicrous.
I think the prospect of a Shinner being FM is important to many unionists and may well have caused a few to move from the UU to DUP. Certainly, the DUP carry on as if the FM has some role in speaking for NI. Describing it as "total crap" is nonsense.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2018, 05:26:49 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 13, 2018, 03:21:52 PM
You have vastly overstated the importance of first minister, both in duties and symbolically.
FM has never really been a concern for anyone at elections (notwithstanding that the DUP did use it a little to scaremonger in the last election) and it certainly has never been mentioned in relation to SF. So that part is total crap. To then attempt to link this up to explain why the UUP (and SDLP) have faded away is ludicrous.
I think the prospect of a Shinner being FM is important to many unionists and may well have caused a few to move from the UU to DUP. Certainly, the DUP carry on as if the FM has some role in speaking for NI. Describing it as "total crap" is nonsense.
To the outside world looking in, FM sounds like the de-facto leader of the 6, but we here know the truth that it's a joint role. It means more to the DUP to hold on to it than it would for SF to gain it. That's a fact.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44497515
Not enough burkas available 😜
What a shite game for her exposure to the GAA to be.
Just ;looked at the score there, maybe they just need to tighten up on the Donegal number 4.
The dup have really changed their pr front. Must have got someone with a bit of sense into that area.
Arlene not so bigoted today. Fair play to her.
Unlike good old Jim Alistair who tweeted "Off shortly to annual service in Kells & Connor to honour the sacrifice and work of the UDR in Co Antrim. Much more fitting for a Sunday than pandering to the GAA."
Quote from: Orior on June 24, 2018, 07:21:07 PM
Unlike good old Jim Alistair who tweeted "Off shortly to annual service in Kells & Connor to honour the sacrifice and work of the UDR in Co Antrim. Much more fitting for a Sunday than pandering to the GAA."
What a miserable aul Cnut! In fairness he's getting loads of it back on Twitter. Not once voice of support. Cnut honouring a shower of bastards.
I thought Heather Humphreys should have joined in the singing of the National Anthem
Actually it was a much greater leap for Stalford than Arlene. As a party leader on a planned round of gestures to groups beyond that reached by her party she was sure in her approach and knew what was happening in advance. She is doing this round with the authority and consent of the party officers.
It was easy to stand for the anthem because in her eyes and those of her supporters she was merely showing respect to the anthem of a neighbouring nation.
However, for Stalford, it was more difficult. Given his Church and beliefs, going to the game on a Sunday or participating in political activity on a Sunday is a major issue. He doesn't have the same cover as Arlene particularly in is local area and not being in a leadership role. So, fair play to Stalford for joining Arlene.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 24, 2018, 08:59:31 PM
Actually it was a much greater leap for Stalford than Arlene. As a party leader on a planned round of gestures to groups beyond that reached by her party she was sure in her approach and knew what was happening in advance. She is doing this round with the authority and consent of the party officers.
It was easy to stand for the anthem because in her eyes and those of her supporters she was merely showing respect to the anthem of a neighbouring nation.
However, for Stalford, it was more difficult. Given his Church and beliefs, going to the game on a Sunday or participating in political activity on a Sunday is a major issue. He doesn't have the same cover as Arlene particularly in is local area and not being in a leadership role. So, fair play to Stalford for joining Arlene.
And what about Stalford's eyes?
Quote from: snoopdog on June 24, 2018, 06:28:11 PM
Arlene not so bigoted today. Fair play to her.
Playing party politics with Sinn Fein ( very) lite ..... but getting good spin from it
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 24, 2018, 08:59:31 PM
Actually it was a much greater leap for Stalford than Arlene. As a party leader on a planned round of gestures to groups beyond that reached by her party she was sure in her approach and knew what was happening in advance. She is doing this round with the authority and consent of the party officers.
It was easy to stand for the anthem because in her eyes and those of her supporters she was merely showing respect to the anthem of a neighbouring nation.
However, for Stalford, it was more difficult. Given his Church and beliefs, going to the game on a Sunday or participating in political activity on a Sunday is a major issue. He doesn't have the same cover as Arlene particularly in is local area and not being in a leadership role. So, fair play to Stalford for joining Arlene.
Perhaps he thinks the wind is changing and that things will be different within his political career.
She's clearly been told by her PR people that she's too cold in certain issues and needs to soften her stance on a few things.
It can only be a good thing that she's engaging with LGBTQ and the GAA and for someone who wasn't into gesture politics finally she's realised that it's sknethung you need to do when you're a leader!!
Did the whole Paddy Kielty thing make her realise she needed to change tact?
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 24, 2018, 08:56:53 PM
I thought Heather Humphreys should have joined in the singing of the National Anthem
I'm sure she and Arlene gave it a few verses of "The Sash" afterwards.
Fair play to Foster for attending.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2018, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 24, 2018, 08:59:31 PM
Actually it was a much greater leap for Stalford than Arlene. As a party leader on a planned round of gestures to groups beyond that reached by her party she was sure in her approach and knew what was happening in advance. She is doing this round with the authority and consent of the party officers.
It was easy to stand for the anthem because in her eyes and those of her supporters she was merely showing respect to the anthem of a neighbouring nation.
However, for Stalford, it was more difficult. Given his Church and beliefs, going to the game on a Sunday or participating in political activity on a Sunday is a major issue. He doesn't have the same cover as Arlene particularly in is local area and not being in a leadership role. So, fair play to Stalford for joining Arlene.
Perhaps he thinks the wind is changing and that things will be different within his political career.
Stalford could be the next DUP leader in the North, Arlene shouldn't have a future in NI politics.
Quote from: sensethetone on June 25, 2018, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2018, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 24, 2018, 08:59:31 PM
Actually it was a much greater leap for Stalford than Arlene. As a party leader on a planned round of gestures to groups beyond that reached by her party she was sure in her approach and knew what was happening in advance. She is doing this round with the authority and consent of the party officers.
It was easy to stand for the anthem because in her eyes and those of her supporters she was merely showing respect to the anthem of a neighbouring nation.
However, for Stalford, it was more difficult. Given his Church and beliefs, going to the game on a Sunday or participating in political activity on a Sunday is a major issue. He doesn't have the same cover as Arlene particularly in is local area and not being in a leadership role. So, fair play to Stalford for joining Arlene.
Perhaps he thinks the wind is changing and that things will be different within his political career.
Stalford could be the next DUP leader in the North, Arlene shouldn't have a future in NI politics.
Think Simon Hamilton will be next DUP leader
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 25, 2018, 12:32:24 AM
Did the whole Paddy Kielty thing make her realise she needed to change tact?
Might have made her realise she needed to change tack.
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Quote from: Insane Bolt on June 25, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: sensethetone on June 25, 2018, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2018, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 24, 2018, 08:59:31 PM
Actually it was a much greater leap for Stalford than Arlene. As a party leader on a planned round of gestures to groups beyond that reached by her party she was sure in her approach and knew what was happening in advance. She is doing this round with the authority and consent of the party officers.
It was easy to stand for the anthem because in her eyes and those of her supporters she was merely showing respect to the anthem of a neighbouring nation.
However, for Stalford, it was more difficult. Given his Church and beliefs, going to the game on a Sunday or participating in political activity on a Sunday is a major issue. He doesn't have the same cover as Arlene particularly in is local area and not being in a leadership role. So, fair play to Stalford for joining Arlene.
Perhaps he thinks the wind is changing and that things will be different within his political career.
Stalford could be the next DUP leader in the North, Arlene shouldn't have a future in NI politics.
Think Simon Hamilton will be next DUP leader
Simon's probably an ideal candidate, that's why the DUP will probably not let him be leader lol.. Stalford done over Emma little-Pengelly to make sure he was an MLA(probably short term gain as she got the MP number).. he'll sort Simon, chris is a winner, probably was routing for Donegal yesterday too.
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Met the Queen on many occasion. MMcG went to NI game during the Euros. Mary Lou said L'Derry. I'm sure there's more.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 25, 2018, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Met the Queen on many occasion. MMcG went to NI game during the Euros. Mary Lou said L'Derry. I'm sure there's more.
"A giant gesture" , presumably you're having a laugh?
This choreographing and gesture politics irritates me, but surprisingly it often turns out to be beneficial, from a PR perspective as a milestone on the road to reconciliation.
Arlene unfortunately has shown her true colours especially in the Kielty programme. Her comments after yesterday indicate that she only had eyes on her own community's response to the gesture. She is at best bedgrudging and her reconciliation efforts appear forced and contrived. She talked about wishing her neighbours well, in other words it's not my team, it's the local fenians' team.
I suspect the DUP see an opportunity that conservative catholics could swell their ranks, so they'll have to be seen to engage with the GAA to which many conservative catholics have a strong affinity.
At the heels of the hunt , she has never shown any rapport or even recognition for Irish culture. Ireland remains the enemy ( understandably given her own experiences) and her bedgrudging gesture politics is merely a means to an end. She even got in her dig regarding respect for culture, again equating the GAA with the orange order. Her body language was uncomfortable For the most part.
She is among a dying breed of dinosaurs ( Sammy, Edwin , Nigel, Gregory, Nelson) who are fast losing credibility in their own community . The majority of their support comes from the older generation and thankfully their influence is on the wane.
I have to say , the sycophantic " isn't she great for coming along to the Ulster final" grates with me.
She is attending one of the most important Ulster sporting events of the year , on her own doorstep, with her own county competing as underdogs. The fact that it was staged in ROI meant standing in a "foreign country" for their anthem, was no challenge for her.
If She aspires to be a true leader of NI again, she has to openly embrace all cultures within that. I don't think she possesses those personality traits and leadership qualities, the personal experiences of her family and community still dominate her agenda . Can she rise above that ? I doubt it.
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
Quote from: Orior on June 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
Is the truth. I feel sorry for anyone was at that match
Quote from: Orior on June 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
This doesn't sound very begrudging
"I do realise there might be some people who may be uncomfortable with me being here today on Sunday. But let me say this – I am a leader of a political party that wants to have a shared society in Northern Ireland and to do that you have to take steps forward and to do that we have to build a respect and tolerance and that's what I want to do."
"I hope others take the chance to step forward as well and to understand and appreciate and tolerate another culture perhaps that isn't theirs."
Every Ulster GAA member should take the opportunity to email/write to her congratulating her on her attendance and hoping that she becomes a season ticket holder at Brewster😜
"lookit all the stupid wee fenians chasin round the wee ball. stupid wee fcukers"
"would somebody mark thon big heure murphy ffs"
"get Quigley aff. put Quigley on"
*overheard at clones yesterday
Boris Johnson has gone missing......he wasn't at the game yesterday with Arlene was he? .....and gone on a 3 day bender😜
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on June 25, 2018, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on June 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
This doesn't sound very begrudging
"I do realise there might be some people who may be uncomfortable with me being here today on Sunday. But let me say this – I am a leader of a political party that wants to have a shared society in Northern Ireland and to do that you have to take steps forward and to do that we have to build a respect and tolerance and that's what I want to do."
"I hope others take the chance to step forward as well and to understand and appreciate and tolerate another culture perhaps that isn't theirs."
It also took her a very long time to confirm that she was going to attend. She would have worked hard rehearsing that statement above. BUT every little helps and at least she crossed the rubicon, so she deserves some credit for that, as does Stalford.
Quote from: 6th sam on June 25, 2018, 12:05:05 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 25, 2018, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Met the Queen on many occasion. MMcG went to NI game during the Euros. Mary Lou said L'Derry. I'm sure there's more.
"A giant gesture" , presumably you're having a laugh?
This choreographing and gesture politics irritates me, but surprisingly it often turns out to be beneficial, from a PR perspective as a milestone on the road to reconciliation.
Arlene unfortunately has shown her true colours especially in the Kielty programme. Her comments after yesterday indicate that she only had eyes on her own community's response to the gesture. She is at best bedgrudging and her reconciliation efforts appear forced and contrived. She talked about wishing her neighbours well, in other words it's not my team, it's the local fenians' team.
I suspect the DUP see an opportunity that conservative catholics could swell their ranks, so they'll have to be seen to engage with the GAA to which many conservative catholics have a strong affinity.
At the heels of the hunt , she has never shown any rapport or even recognition for Irish culture. Ireland remains the enemy ( understandably given her own experiences) and her bedgrudging gesture politics is merely a means to an end. She even got in her dig regarding respect for culture, again equating the GAA with the orange order. Her body language was uncomfortable For the most part.
She is among a dying breed of dinosaurs ( Sammy, Edwin , Nigel, Gregory, Nelson) who are fast losing credibility in their own community . The majority of their support comes from the older generation and thankfully their influence is on the wane.
I have to say , the sycophantic " isn't she great for coming along to the Ulster final" grates with me.
She is attending one of the most important Ulster sporting events of the year , on her own doorstep, with her own county competing as underdogs. The fact that it was staged in ROI meant standing in a "foreign country" for their anthem, was no challenge for her.
If She aspires to be a true leader of NI again, she has to openly embrace all cultures within that. I don't think she possesses those personality traits and leadership qualities, the personal experiences of her family and community still dominate her agenda . Can she rise above that ? I doubt it.
Very good post. Foster is an out and out hardnosed bigot. Yesterday was just a bit of window dressing aimed at the "why can't we call just get along" brigade.
Quote from: AQMP on June 25, 2018, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on June 25, 2018, 12:05:05 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 25, 2018, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Met the Queen on many occasion. MMcG went to NI game during the Euros. Mary Lou said L'Derry. I'm sure there's more.
"A giant gesture" , presumably you're having a laugh?
This choreographing and gesture politics irritates me, but surprisingly it often turns out to be beneficial, from a PR perspective as a milestone on the road to reconciliation.
Arlene unfortunately has shown her true colours especially in the Kielty programme. Her comments after yesterday indicate that she only had eyes on her own community's response to the gesture. She is at best bedgrudging and her reconciliation efforts appear forced and contrived. She talked about wishing her neighbours well, in other words it's not my team, it's the local fenians' team.
I suspect the DUP see an opportunity that conservative catholics could swell their ranks, so they'll have to be seen to engage with the GAA to which many conservative catholics have a strong affinity.
At the heels of the hunt , she has never shown any rapport or even recognition for Irish culture. Ireland remains the enemy ( understandably given her own experiences) and her bedgrudging gesture politics is merely a means to an end. She even got in her dig regarding respect for culture, again equating the GAA with the orange order. Her body language was uncomfortable For the most part.
She is among a dying breed of dinosaurs ( Sammy, Edwin , Nigel, Gregory, Nelson) who are fast losing credibility in their own community . The majority of their support comes from the older generation and thankfully their influence is on the wane.
I have to say , the sycophantic " isn't she great for coming along to the Ulster final" grates with me.
She is attending one of the most important Ulster sporting events of the year , on her own doorstep, with her own county competing as underdogs. The fact that it was staged in ROI meant standing in a "foreign country" for their anthem, was no challenge for her.
If She aspires to be a true leader of NI again, she has to openly embrace all cultures within that. I don't think she possesses those personality traits and leadership qualities, the personal experiences of her family and community still dominate her agenda . Can she rise above that ? I doubt it.
Very good post. Foster is an out and out hardnosed bigot. Yesterday was just a bit of window dressing aimed at the "why can't we call just get along" brigade.
She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't!!
If she hadn't gone half the country would say ah sure look at aul bigoted Arlene she wouldn't even go to a football match and now that she has gone people are saying it's only an empty gesture and what's the point.
It's a pity things have gone this way. For whatever reason she decided to go and I think it's a step in the right direction whatever the motive.
Quote from: screenexile on June 25, 2018, 02:06:04 PM
Quote from: AQMP on June 25, 2018, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on June 25, 2018, 12:05:05 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 25, 2018, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Met the Queen on many occasion. MMcG went to NI game during the Euros. Mary Lou said L'Derry. I'm sure there's more.
"A giant gesture" , presumably you're having a laugh?
This choreographing and gesture politics irritates me, but surprisingly it often turns out to be beneficial, from a PR perspective as a milestone on the road to reconciliation.
Arlene unfortunately has shown her true colours especially in the Kielty programme. Her comments after yesterday indicate that she only had eyes on her own community's response to the gesture. She is at best bedgrudging and her reconciliation efforts appear forced and contrived. She talked about wishing her neighbours well, in other words it's not my team, it's the local fenians' team.
I suspect the DUP see an opportunity that conservative catholics could swell their ranks, so they'll have to be seen to engage with the GAA to which many conservative catholics have a strong affinity.
At the heels of the hunt , she has never shown any rapport or even recognition for Irish culture. Ireland remains the enemy ( understandably given her own experiences) and her bedgrudging gesture politics is merely a means to an end. She even got in her dig regarding respect for culture, again equating the GAA with the orange order. Her body language was uncomfortable For the most part.
She is among a dying breed of dinosaurs ( Sammy, Edwin , Nigel, Gregory, Nelson) who are fast losing credibility in their own community . The majority of their support comes from the older generation and thankfully their influence is on the wane.
I have to say , the sycophantic " isn't she great for coming along to the Ulster final" grates with me.
She is attending one of the most important Ulster sporting events of the year , on her own doorstep, with her own county competing as underdogs. The fact that it was staged in ROI meant standing in a "foreign country" for their anthem, was no challenge for her.
If She aspires to be a true leader of NI again, she has to openly embrace all cultures within that. I don't think she possesses those personality traits and leadership qualities, the personal experiences of her family and community still dominate her agenda . Can she rise above that ? I doubt it.
Very good post. Foster is an out and out hardnosed bigot. Yesterday was just a bit of window dressing aimed at the "why can't we call just get along" brigade.
She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't!!
If she hadn't gone half the country would say ah sure look at aul bigoted Arlene she wouldn't even go to a football match and now that she has gone people are saying it's only an empty gesture and what's the point.
It's a pity things have gone this way. For whatever reason she decided to go and I think it's a step in the right direction whatever the motive.
No doubt it is a step in the right direction and she deserves some credit for that. However like every concession the DUP make, it is always too little too late to have the impact that it should have.
Quote from: HiMucker on June 25, 2018, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 25, 2018, 02:06:04 PM
Quote from: AQMP on June 25, 2018, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on June 25, 2018, 12:05:05 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 25, 2018, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
Met the Queen on many occasion. MMcG went to NI game during the Euros. Mary Lou said L'Derry. I'm sure there's more.
"A giant gesture" , presumably you're having a laugh?
This choreographing and gesture politics irritates me, but surprisingly it often turns out to be beneficial, from a PR perspective as a milestone on the road to reconciliation.
Arlene unfortunately has shown her true colours especially in the Kielty programme. Her comments after yesterday indicate that she only had eyes on her own community's response to the gesture. She is at best bedgrudging and her reconciliation efforts appear forced and contrived. She talked about wishing her neighbours well, in other words it's not my team, it's the local fenians' team.
I suspect the DUP see an opportunity that conservative catholics could swell their ranks, so they'll have to be seen to engage with the GAA to which many conservative catholics have a strong affinity.
At the heels of the hunt , she has never shown any rapport or even recognition for Irish culture. Ireland remains the enemy ( understandably given her own experiences) and her bedgrudging gesture politics is merely a means to an end. She even got in her dig regarding respect for culture, again equating the GAA with the orange order. Her body language was uncomfortable For the most part.
She is among a dying breed of dinosaurs ( Sammy, Edwin , Nigel, Gregory, Nelson) who are fast losing credibility in their own community . The majority of their support comes from the older generation and thankfully their influence is on the wane.
I have to say , the sycophantic " isn't she great for coming along to the Ulster final" grates with me.
She is attending one of the most important Ulster sporting events of the year , on her own doorstep, with her own county competing as underdogs. The fact that it was staged in ROI meant standing in a "foreign country" for their anthem, was no challenge for her.
If She aspires to be a true leader of NI again, she has to openly embrace all cultures within that. I don't think she possesses those personality traits and leadership qualities, the personal experiences of her family and community still dominate her agenda . Can she rise above that ? I doubt it.
Very good post. Foster is an out and out hardnosed bigot. Yesterday was just a bit of window dressing aimed at the "why can't we call just get along" brigade.
She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't!!
If she hadn't gone half the country would say ah sure look at aul bigoted Arlene she wouldn't even go to a football match and now that she has gone people are saying it's only an empty gesture and what's the point.
It's a pity things have gone this way. For whatever reason she decided to go and I think it's a step in the right direction whatever the motive.
No doubt it is a step in the right direction and she deserves some credit for that. However like every concession the DUP make, it is always too little too late to have the impact that it should have.
I'm glad she went, but it speaks volumes that the first minister attending one of the biggest sporting events here involving her home county no less is deemed to be a concession. To who I don't know.
The fact she's also getting it in the ear from the DUP bible thumpers also speaks volumes as much as Arlene rightly or wrongly is in the bigoted bracket there are far worse out there.
If Jim Allister had his way the chains would be back on the playground swings!
Divide and conquer !
She's read the runes and realises that the demographics are against unionists, particularly in light of Brexit and her 'crocodiles' approach to her neighbours, which is persuading a lot of soft nationalists not to prop up the failed, putrid statelet anymore. I suspect she also knows that she's going to come out of RHI looking extremely incompetent/culpable, thus the current charm offensive to burnish her tawdry image. It's probably all too little, too late for her IMO. She's seriously damaged goods, no matter what spin her cheerleaders on the Belfast Telegraph put on it
Quote from: red hander on June 25, 2018, 04:37:06 PM
She's read the runes and realises that the demographics are against unionists, particularly in light of Brexit and her 'crocodiles' approach to her neighbours, which is persuading a lot of soft nationalists not to prop up the failed, putrid statelet anymore. I suspect she also knows that she's going to come out of RHI looking extremely incompetent/culpable, thus the current charm offensive to burnish her tawdry image. It's probably all too little, too late for her IMO. She's seriously damaged goods, no matter what spin her cheerleaders on the Belfast Telegraph put on it
That's it in a nutshell
Quote from: johnnycool on June 25, 2018, 04:18:02 PM
If Jim Allister had his way the chains would be back on the playground swings!
That **** was too busy w**king over the UDR on Sunday, so much for keeping the sabbath sacred ::)
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on June 25, 2018, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on June 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
This doesn't sound very begrudging
Let me translate for you,
Mayoforsam
"I do realise there might be some people who may be uncomfortable with me being here today on Sunday. (Clearly targeted at her own, supporters, particularly the Sunday observers)
But let me say this – I am a leader of a political party that wants to have a shared society in Northern Ireland ( she wants a society in Northern Ireland , full stop, she and her ilk had ample opportunity for 100 years to make it a shared society and failed miserably. She's now being dragged kicking and screaming into the shared concept as she now knows that with the unionist majority and veto gone, the only way of having any Northern Ireland society is that it must be a shared society!) and to do that you have to , (NB "have to" , as opposed to "want to",) , take steps forward and to do that we have to , (again), build a respect and tolerance and that's what I want to do."
(Eventually )
"I hope others take the chance to step forward as well and to understand and appreciate and tolerate another culture perhaps that isn't theirs." (Ie i've Made the effort with the Gaa , (a community organisation that wants to attract Protestants) , now it's time for you to accept orangeism, (which by rule excludes catholics , and celebrates bating the fenians 300 years ago, on a weekly basis all over NI)
There was a clear democractic majority in her "wee country " against brexit, yet she is a standard bearer for brexit. She can hardly conceal her glee that it puts a more successful ROI under pressure. She was a disaster as a First minister, and is unique in that she couldn't even work with Martin McGuinness an internationally respected statesman , who showed genuine empathy and respect for her community. Make no mistake, Sundays appearance was reluctant and begrudging , no doubt an attempt to ingratiate a few conservative catholics, whilst keeping her own community on board.
The real success of Sunday was the warm and genuine welcome from her hosts and a well disciplined crowd applauding her as opposed to booing her. She has a democratic mandate and must be respected, particularly given her horrendous personal experiences, but if she wants to be a leader she'd want to embrace the whole community, not just her voters
So there were no Union Jacks burned in Clones, no photos of Unionist leaders burned, no shaven headed tattooed drunks shouting abuse at Arlene etcetera.
Sure Arlene will think we have no kulcher at all at all.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2018, 06:16:00 PM
So there were no Union Jacks burned in Clones, no photos of Unionist leaders burned, no shaven headed tattooed drunks shouting abuse at Arlene etcetera.
Sure Arlene will think we have no kulcher at all at all.
That's what annoys Many reasonable unionists, they want their Britishness and British culture retained ( which is an understandable aspiration) but they can't abide the fact that orangeism is painted as their "culture " , they are genuinely embarrassed about it and resent it.
Flip. She can smile!!!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DghoxN1WsAAqdc7.jpg:large)
Quote from: 6th sam on June 25, 2018, 05:17:41 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on June 25, 2018, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on June 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
This doesn't sound very begrudging
Let me translate for you,
Mayoforsam
"I do realise there might be some people who may be uncomfortable with me being here today on Sunday. (Clearly targeted at her own, supporters, particularly the Sunday observers)
But let me say this – I am a leader of a political party that wants to have a shared society in Northern Ireland ( she wants a society in Northern Ireland , full stop, she and her ilk had ample opportunity for 100 years to make it a shared society and failed miserably. She's now being dragged kicking and screaming into the shared concept as she now knows that with the unionist majority and veto gone, the only way of having any Northern Ireland society is that it must be a shared society!) and to do that you have to , (NB "have to" , as opposed to "want to",) , take steps forward and to do that we have to , (again), build a respect and tolerance and that's what I want to do."
(Eventually )
"I hope others take the chance to step forward as well and to understand and appreciate and tolerate another culture perhaps that isn't theirs." (Ie i've Made the effort with the Gaa , (a community organisation that wants to attract Protestants) , now it's time for you to accept orangeism, (which by rule excludes catholics , and celebrates bating the fenians 300 years ago, on a weekly basis all over NI)
There was a clear democractic majority in her "wee country " against brexit, yet she is a standard bearer for brexit. She can hardly conceal her glee that it puts a more successful ROI under pressure. She was a disaster as a First minister, and is unique in that she couldn't even work with Martin McGuinness an internationally respected statesman , who showed genuine empathy and respect for her community. Make no mistake, Sundays appearance was reluctant and begrudging , no doubt an attempt to ingratiate a few conservative catholics, whilst keeping her own community on board.
The real success of Sunday was the warm and genuine welcome from her hosts and a well disciplined crowd applauding her as opposed to booing her. She has a democratic mandate and must be respected, particularly given her horrendous personal experiences, but if she wants to be a leader she'd want to embrace the whole community, not just her voters
Haven't read such a "one-sided" post on here in a long time. Not everyone from the Unionist community would agree with you that MMcG was a "respected statesman, who showed genuine empathy and respect for her community" - Kind of glosses over what went before. Whilst he did undoubtedly soften in his latter years, and his actions were rightly lauded, there was also clearly an element of being seen to play the PR game too, something which Foster has finally realised is a better tack to take.
Quote from: michaelg on June 25, 2018, 10:13:40 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on June 25, 2018, 05:17:41 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on June 25, 2018, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on June 25, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 25, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
So Arlene has made a giant gesture. Is there a similar gessture that Sinn Féin could make?
In all her talk, Arlene came across as very begrudging. In other words, "I don't really want to be here, and shouldn't really be here, but I'm doing it solely for political purposes"
This doesn't sound very begrudging
Let me translate for you,
Mayoforsam
"I do realise there might be some people who may be uncomfortable with me being here today on Sunday. (Clearly targeted at her own, supporters, particularly the Sunday observers)
But let me say this – I am a leader of a political party that wants to have a shared society in Northern Ireland ( she wants a society in Northern Ireland , full stop, she and her ilk had ample opportunity for 100 years to make it a shared society and failed miserably. She's now being dragged kicking and screaming into the shared concept as she now knows that with the unionist majority and veto gone, the only way of having any Northern Ireland society is that it must be a shared society!) and to do that you have to , (NB "have to" , as opposed to "want to",) , take steps forward and to do that we have to , (again), build a respect and tolerance and that's what I want to do."
(Eventually )
"I hope others take the chance to step forward as well and to understand and appreciate and tolerate another culture perhaps that isn't theirs." (Ie i've Made the effort with the Gaa , (a community organisation that wants to attract Protestants) , now it's time for you to accept orangeism, (which by rule excludes catholics , and celebrates bating the fenians 300 years ago, on a weekly basis all over NI)
There was a clear democractic majority in her "wee country " against brexit, yet she is a standard bearer for brexit. She can hardly conceal her glee that it puts a more successful ROI under pressure. She was a disaster as a First minister, and is unique in that she couldn't even work with Martin McGuinness an internationally respected statesman , who showed genuine empathy and respect for her community. Make no mistake, Sundays appearance was reluctant and begrudging , no doubt an attempt to ingratiate a few conservative catholics, whilst keeping her own community on board.
The real success of Sunday was the warm and genuine welcome from her hosts and a well disciplined crowd applauding her as opposed to booing her. She has a democratic mandate and must be respected, particularly given her horrendous personal experiences, but if she wants to be a leader she'd want to embrace the whole community, not just her voters
Haven't read such a "one-sided" post on here in a long time. Not everyone from the Unionist community would agree with you that MMcG was a "respected statesman, who showed genuine empathy and respect for her community" - Kind of glosses over what went before. Whilst he did undoubtedly soften in his latter years, and his actions were rightly lauded, there was also clearly an element of being seen to play the PR game too, something which Foster has finally realised is a better tack to take.
Fair point Michaelg, it is "one-sided", and that "side" is the one of equality and respect !
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Diversion tactic?
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Totally agree, the bridge would be great but let's build a motorway between Belfast and Derry first. Ridiculous that you have motorway all the way from belfast to ballymena and then dual carriageway onto Coleraine but still to get to Derry you have to get stuck in traffic going through Dungiven and Drumahoe. Scandalous sectarian policy decisions taken years ago.
Quote from: lenny on July 02, 2018, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Totally agree, the bridge would be great but let's build a motorway between Belfast and Derry first. Ridiculous that you have motorway all the way from belfast to ballymena and then dual carriageway onto Coleraine but still to get to Derry you have to get stuck in traffic going through Dungiven and Drumahoe. Scandalous sectarian policy decisions taken years ago.
A5 From Aughnacloy to Derry would need started as well before any bridge.
Quote from: lenny on July 02, 2018, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Totally agree, the bridge would be great but let's build a motorway between Belfast and Derry first. Ridiculous that you have motorway all the way from belfast to ballymena and then dual carriageway onto Coleraine but still to get to Derry you have to get stuck in traffic going through Dungiven and Drumahoe. Scandalous sectarian policy decisions taken years ago.
Is she planning to spend all the money she got for propping up Theresa May's government on this bridge then?
Quote from: lenny on July 02, 2018, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Totally agree, the bridge would be great but let's build a motorway between Belfast and Derry first. Ridiculous that you have motorway all the way from belfast to ballymena and then dual carriageway onto Coleraine but still to get to Derry you have to get stuck in traffic going through Dungiven and Drumahoe. Scandalous sectarian policy decisions taken years ago.
Aye and not to mention the amount of crying it causes from you boys having to go to Celtic park. Motorway all the way and youd be there in no time, and should stop any whinging ;)
Quote from: HiMucker on July 02, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 02, 2018, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Totally agree, the bridge would be great but let's build a motorway between Belfast and Derry first. Ridiculous that you have motorway all the way from belfast to ballymena and then dual carriageway onto Coleraine but still to get to Derry you have to get stuck in traffic going through Dungiven and Drumahoe. Scandalous sectarian policy decisions taken years ago.
Aye and not to mention the amount of crying it causes from you boys having to go to Celtic park. Motorway all the way and youd be there in no time, and should stop any whinging ;)
If she sells CP as part of the deal to pay for the bridge I'll be all for it!!
Absolute moonbeams. They can't afford an Irish Language Act but they can stump up £20bn for a bridge to Scotland? West of the Bann a desert for decent roads or rail links and she's peddling this shite. They really are panicking over the demographics and will suggest anything to maintain their connection to the 'mainland', no matter how desperate, cos they know what's coming down the road, especially when Brexit goes seriously tits up... what a balloon she really is ::)
Boris Johnston started this bridge thing. Complete fantasy, like his trade deals
Like anything he touches really.
It makes me uncomfortable seeing foster and the dup talking to may about the border. You'd nearly swear those feckers are doing all they can to bring the troubles back at times.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2018, 08:34:20 PM
Like anything he touches really.
It makes me uncomfortable seeing foster and the dup talking to may about the border. You'd nearly swear those feckers are doing all they can to bring the troubles back at times.
I honestly don't see the Troubles coming back anytime soon. There will be a few people that will form some dissident nonsense but it's not like it was when the Republican movement began properly in the North. Catholics are not discriminated against like they were with housing/jobs/education/gerrymandering/policing etc. I can't see a point where armed struggle becomes an option again!
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 09:27:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2018, 08:34:20 PM
Like anything he touches really.
It makes me uncomfortable seeing foster and the dup talking to may about the border. You'd nearly swear those feckers are doing all they can to bring the troubles back at times.
I honestly don't see the Troubles coming back anytime soon. There will be a few people that will form some dissident nonsense but it's not like it was when the Republican movement began properly in the North. Catholics are not discriminated against like they were with housing/jobs/education/gerrymandering/policing etc. I can't see a point where armed struggle becomes an option again!
Never was an option.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 02, 2018, 09:44:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 09:27:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2018, 08:34:20 PM
Like anything he touches really.
It makes me uncomfortable seeing foster and the dup talking to may about the border. You'd nearly swear those feckers are doing all they can to bring the troubles back at times.
I honestly don't see the Troubles coming back anytime soon. There will be a few people that will form some dissident nonsense but it's not like it was when the Republican movement began properly in the North. Catholics are not discriminated against like they were with housing/jobs/education/gerrymandering/policing etc. I can't see a point where armed struggle becomes an option again!
Never was an option.
Yawn...
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 09:27:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2018, 08:34:20 PM
Like anything he touches really.
It makes me uncomfortable seeing foster and the dup talking to may about the border. You'd nearly swear those feckers are doing all they can to bring the troubles back at times.
I honestly don't see the Troubles coming back anytime soon. There will be a few people that will form some dissident nonsense but it's not like it was when the Republican movement began properly in the North. Catholics are not discriminated against like they were with housing/jobs/education/gerrymandering/policing etc. I can't see a point where armed struggle becomes an option again!
If there is a return to violence it is the loyalists who need to be watched. Only yesterday in Portadown 8 of the cowards jumped all over a mans car in broad daylight in front of his partner and 2 month old baby, before dragging him out and kicking the f**k out of him... Why? Because someone lit their wee bonfire early during the week. Can you imagine what these pieces of shit will do when polls, votes, referendums etc start to properly go against them?
As I drove home, Newtownards Road in Belfast was a scary place this evening.
Quote from: Orior on July 02, 2018, 11:14:21 PM
As I drove home, Newtownards Road in Belfast was a scary place this evening.
Mini 12th?
Problems for Dearest Arlene if there is substance to Penny Mordaunt's comments on the Today programme re NI abortion
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on July 02, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 02, 2018, 02:04:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 02, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
No talk of the bridge Arlene's looking to build between the North and Scotland so that that the brits can't cast them off as will likely be the case??!!
It's f**king ridiculous . . . there isn't a motorway or a train that goes west of the Lough and she's looking to build a bridge that we don't need??!!
Totally agree, the bridge would be great but let's build a motorway between Belfast and Derry first. Ridiculous that you have motorway all the way from belfast to ballymena and then dual carriageway onto Coleraine but still to get to Derry you have to get stuck in traffic going through Dungiven and Drumahoe. Scandalous sectarian policy decisions taken years ago.
Aye and not to mention the amount of crying it causes from you boys having to go to Celtic park. Motorway all the way and youd be there in no time, and should stop any whinging ;)
If she sells CP as part of the deal to pay for the bridge I'll be all for it!!
Spoken like a true Gael, primary ethos and all that :)
Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:38:39 AM
Problems for Dearest Arlene if there is substance to Penny Mordaunt's comments on the Today programme re NI abortion
What did she say??
Quote from: AQMP on July 03, 2018, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:38:39 AM
Problems for Dearest Arlene if there is substance to Penny Mordaunt's comments on the Today programme re NI abortion
What did she say??
NIO will look at getting Stormont up and running. If that works then Stormont decides on abortion.
If it isn't up and running soon the Westminster takes control of the issue. It's fairly clear that UK will not impose anything on NI but instead would bypass Stormont and go straight to the people. The word referendum wasn't used but that's what is coming.
Increases the incentive for DUP to return to Stormont but reduces shinners'. Not that either was in a rush
Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 10:41:33 AM
Quote from: AQMP on July 03, 2018, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:38:39 AM
Problems for Dearest Arlene if there is substance to Penny Mordaunt's comments on the Today programme re NI abortion
What did she say??
NIO will look at getting Stormont up and running. If that works then Stormont decides on abortion.
If it isn't up and running soon the Westminster takes control of the issue. It's fairly clear that UK will not impose anything on NI but instead would bypass Stormont and go straight to the people. The word referendum wasn't used but that's what is coming.
Increases the incentive for DUP to return to Stormont but reduces shinners'. Not that either was in a rush
The Assembly exists and could debate any of these matters. The problem is the Executive.
All sorts of rumours flying around about two elected DUP reps who allegedly have sort injunctions about alleged activities that allegedly would undermine, again, the party's claim to uphold traditional family values. Allegedly.
Is this what is being eluded to on another thread?
Quote from: gallsman on July 08, 2018, 03:43:34 PM
All sorts of rumours flying around about two elected DUP reps who allegedly have sort injunctions about alleged activities that allegedly would undermine, again, the party's claim to uphold traditional family values. Allegedly.
I notice that Little Pengelly has pulled the pin on Twitter
Entirely unrelated I'm sure
Apologies, didn't even see the other thread!
That was last night when I was pissed though. I'd forgotten all about it until I was sent a pic on what's app this afternoon!
(https://preview.ibb.co/cnT7ro/IMG_20180708_163418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h4qbj8)
Pastor McConnell will forgive them😜.....not sure about the Permanent Secretary though
Quote from: gallsman on July 08, 2018, 03:43:34 PM
All sorts of rumours flying around about two elected DUP reps who allegedly have sort injunctions about alleged activities that allegedly would undermine, again, the party's claim to uphold traditional family values. Allegedly.
What new scandal are the Catholic Church involved in?
Quote from: Insane Bolt on July 08, 2018, 05:57:07 PM
Pastor McConnell will forgive them😜.....not sure about the Permanent Secretary though
He's well used to it by now
N.Ireland is the last place where a super injunction can be easily achieved to prevent the public becoming aware of indiscretions of those with enough funds to get an injunction and another to prevent anyone reporting the first one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45121694
Michelangelo Stone😂
Quote from: Insane Bolt on August 09, 2018, 07:14:30 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45121694
Michelangelo Stone😂
Big Merv the Swerve from the OO has no problem rubbing shoulders with a convict killer, but Mary Lou ate but the 'Ra...Fcuk sakes.
I don't see a separate N.I. Politics thread so I'll post here.
Over 9 million pounds has been paid to mlas since the collapse of Stormount, and not a whimper from the electorate. I just don't understand this mentality. We complain about waiting lists, education, lack of investment etc....yet don't hold the people we elect to account.
Why?
Damn you with your Heathen logic.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on August 25, 2018, 03:24:23 PM
I don't see a separate N.I. Politics thread so I'll post here.
Over 9 million pounds has been paid to mlas since the collapse of Stormount, and not a whimper from the electorate. I just don't understand this mentality. We complain about waiting lists, education, lack of investment etc....yet don't hold the people we elect to account.
Why?
The majority of their work is done through constituency offices as opposed to in the chamber. It would be madness to cut them altogether. You only have to walk into the constituency office of any party to see the work they do.
A wage reduction would be more appropriate as they aren't doing any legislating are the minute, despite it being in their job title.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 25, 2018, 04:32:13 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on August 25, 2018, 03:24:23 PM
I don't see a separate N.I. Politics thread so I'll post here.
Over 9 million pounds has been paid to mlas since the collapse of Stormount, and not a whimper from the electorate. I just don't understand this mentality. We complain about waiting lists, education, lack of investment etc....yet don't hold the people we elect to account.
Why?
The majority of their work is done through constituency offices as opposed to in the chamber. It would be madness to cut them altogether. You only have to walk into the constituency office of any party to see the work they do.
A wage reduction would be more appropriate as they aren't doing any legislating are the minute, despite it being in their job title.
What are they doing exactly that say the Citizens Advice aren't doing?
Is that not what councillor's do?? Personally I wouldn't pay mlas a penny! I
Quote from: Insane Bolt on August 25, 2018, 03:24:23 PM
I don't see a separate N.I. Politics thread so I'll post here.
Over 9 million pounds has been paid to mlas since the collapse of Stormount, and not a whimper from the electorate. I just don't understand this mentality. We complain about waiting lists, education, lack of investment etc....yet don't hold the people we elect to account.
Why?
I'm sure there is a fancy name for it but I'd say it's a bit like the trains over here. It's crap, everyone knows it is, the operators know people will come back anyway so where is the incentive to do anything different.
Quote from: maddog on August 25, 2018, 05:02:51 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on August 25, 2018, 03:24:23 PM
I don't see a separate N.I. Politics thread so I'll post here.
Over 9 million pounds has been paid to mlas since the collapse of Stormount, and not a whimper from the electorate. I just don't understand this mentality. We complain about waiting lists, education, lack of investment etc....yet don't hold the people we elect to account.
Why?
I'm sure there is a fancy name for it but I'd say it's a bit like the trains over here. It's crap, everyone knows it is, the operators know people will come back anyway so where is the incentive to do anything different.
What is it going to take for people to get off their collective arses and do something? There is no accountability and until people vote them out or take to the streets in mass demonstrations then nothing will change. There is too much 'I'm all right Jack so tough sh1t on the rest'.
I see with fuel prices....higher now than any of the gulf wars....and sweet fcuk all to do with production, energy prices going up again by another 13% despite massive profits.......big deal made in the media for giving nurses and front line services a token pay rise that doesn't even cover inflation.
New contracts awarded in the rail industry for incompetence....you couldn't make it up.
Enough is enough people. Who's going to join me? .......and march to the pub and get poleaxed and forget all about it for a few hours😎
We did it, we finally did it.
https://howlonghasnorthernirelandnothadagovernment.com/
Guinness aren't publishing it as a record though the swines.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/guinness-book-world-records-decide-15010729
Quote from: Don Johnson on August 28, 2018, 10:06:10 AM
We did it, we finally did it.
https://howlonghasnorthernirelandnothadagovernment.com/
Guinness aren't publishing it as a record though the swines.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/guinness-book-world-records-decide-15010729
So who's fault is it anyway? We were on the cusp of an agreement a few months ago until the DUP backroom boys pulled out.
Is it really being held up by these Sinn Fein demands?
- Irish Language Act
- Access to Abortion
- Marriage Rights
It's certainly not being held up by marriage rights anyway, SF were more than happy to drop it from their program for government.
If memory serves me correctly, were compromises not made, and a deal done, until that sectarian unelected body, the orange order pulled it?? Would these protests not be more beneficial actually aiming the pressure somewhere useful and concentrating on that?
Quote from: haranguerer on August 28, 2018, 10:49:18 AM
If memory serves me correctly, were compromises not made, and a deal done, until that sectarian unelected body, the orange order pulled it?? Would these protests not be more beneficial actually aiming the pressure somewhere useful and concentrating on that?
The Shinners basically caved on all their red lines to get a deal (assholes) and it was thrown back in their faces when the DUP couldn't sell it to the Orange Order and (let's not forget) their good mates in the UDA. Spineless f**kers might as well play hardball from now on as the DUP has shown them what they think of compromise. Board up Stormont for good and let's wait for Brexit and the demographics to put the final nail in the coffin of this failed, putrid little statelet. The myth that the MLAs need to get back to work so everything will be hunky dory is utter crap. What did the useless shower do all the time they were there?
Quote from: red hander on August 28, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 28, 2018, 10:49:18 AM
If memory serves me correctly, were compromises not made, and a deal done, until that sectarian unelected body, the orange order pulled it?? Would these protests not be more beneficial actually aiming the pressure somewhere useful and concentrating on that?
The Shinners basically caved on all their red lines to get a deal (assholes) and it was thrown back in their faces when the DUP couldn't sell it to the Orange Order and (let's not forget) their good mates in the UDA. Spineless f**kers might as well play hardball from now on as the DUP has shown them what they think of compromise. Board up Stormont for good and let's wait for Brexit and the demographics to put the final nail in the coffin of this failed, putrid little statelet. The myth that the MLAs need to get back to work so everything will be hunky dory is utter crap. What did the useless shower do all the time they were there?
Yup. That's about right.
Quote from: red hander on August 28, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
What did the useless shower do all the time they were there?
Reduce road capacity by between 33-50% by having a buslane, then have a bus running on it every 20 minutes.
They then excelled themselves by extending these bus lanes numerous times and eventually removing efficient road infrastructure (i.e. Kennedy way roundabout) for significantly more inefficient infrastructure (traffic lights) to further their aims of increasing congestion, increasing air pollution* and reducing quality of life of the citizens in, and those commuting to, Belfast.
*I'd guess the numskulls never thought of doing any studies on how increasing commute time by 30-60mins would affect air pollution?
[Forget about the idea of buses taking even a significant minority of residents or commuters - the demographics, both residential and industrial are far too distributed for large scale mass-transport to work. An utter waste of time and money.]
DUP being shown in a bad light but no one is shocked;
Bell the finger breaker and party animal it seems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45402141 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45402141)
Quote from: johnnycool on September 04, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
DUP being shown in a bad light but no one is shocked;
Bell the finger breaker and party animal it seems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45402141 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45402141)
Things starting to come out , lies lies and more lies told by Arlene and Co back then; I really wonder what this will all mean, like no one will resign or be sacked -
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/another-of-dup-spad-s-relatives-got-rhi-boiler-on-final-day-before-cost-controls-1-8624578
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/arlene-foster-s-spad-privately-said-rhi-cash-should-be-maximised-1-8624443
And perm secretary of civil service covering for her - admitting misled enquiry when said he had no evidence of wrong doing by Arlene. I note he said he got on well with Bell, sharing christian beliefs with him...is he a Free P??
Note he is former though. You wonder is he being thrown under the bus here.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 05, 2018, 09:27:22 AM
Note he is former though. You wonder is he being thrown under the bus here.
Would need one of those Glider buses to make sure you get them all!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 05, 2018, 10:50:37 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 05, 2018, 09:27:22 AM
Note he is former though. You wonder is he being thrown under the bus here.
Would need one of those Glider buses to make sure you get them all!
Holy Joe Jonathan Bell due in tomorrow.
Will he come out fighting after the disparaging remarks made about him being a bully and not fit for the brief and take anyone else with him.
Will he say a wee prayer before lying through his teeth?
With all these Christians about the place you'd wonder how this got to where it is.
Sweet Jesus,
Now Jonny Bell's mate is having prophecies that Jonny is innocent.
http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2018/09/05/news/jonathan-bell-s-friend-had-a-prophecy-the-dup-man-would-be-cleared-by-the-rhi-inquiry-1425436/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2018/09/05/news/jonathan-bell-s-friend-had-a-prophecy-the-dup-man-would-be-cleared-by-the-rhi-inquiry-1425436/)
These lads are beyond a joke at this stage.
Bell not the full shilling
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Free Presbyterians represent about 0.8% of the population in the North, but account for around a third membership of the DUP. Id imagine these antics would seem strange to the average DUP voter alright, but its unlikely to stop them voting for them.
Quote from: HiMucker on September 05, 2018, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Free Presbyterians represent about 0.8% of the population in the North, but account for around a third membership of the DUP. Id imagine these antics would seem strange to the average DUP voter alright, but its unlikely to stop them voting for them.
The Free Ps are not the only ones who believe that sort of stuff. Other Presbyterians, Baptists, various smaller denominations and the "non-denominational" churches are like that to some degree.
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2018, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 05, 2018, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Free Presbyterians represent about 0.8% of the population in the North, but account for around a third membership of the DUP. Id imagine these antics would seem strange to the average DUP voter alright, but its unlikely to stop them voting for them.
The Free Ps are not the only ones who believe that sort of stuff. Other Presbyterians, Baptists, various smaller denominations and the "non-denominational" churches are like that to some degree.
Yeah that's true. I'm merely alluding to the point that the vast majority of DUP voters will not be crack pot bible thumpers. Though this aspect doesn't seem to do them any harm politically. I would imagine that it would have a serious impact on the nationalist side though.
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2018, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 05, 2018, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Free Presbyterians represent about 0.8% of the population in the North, but account for around a third membership of the DUP. Id imagine these antics would seem strange to the average DUP voter alright, but its unlikely to stop them voting for them.
The Free Ps are not the only ones who believe that sort of stuff. Other Presbyterians, Baptists, various smaller denominations and the "non-denominational" churches are like that to some degree.
Most secular protestants are heavily influenced by Born Again Christians, even though they don't believe themselves or are not saved they give a lot of respect and creedance to those that are. This informs how they vote in my opinion, hence the DUP's mandate.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2018, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2018, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 05, 2018, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Free Presbyterians represent about 0.8% of the population in the North, but account for around a third membership of the DUP. Id imagine these antics would seem strange to the average DUP voter alright, but its unlikely to stop them voting for them.
The Free Ps are not the only ones who believe that sort of stuff. Other Presbyterians, Baptists, various smaller denominations and the "non-denominational" churches are like that to some degree.
Most secular protestants are heavily influenced by Born Again Christians, even though they don't believe themselves or are not saved they give a lot of respect and creedance to those that are. This informs how they vote in my opinion, hence the DUP's mandate.
Or like the working class in England who consistently vote for the Conservatives and their public school educated leaders as they are born and reared to lead when they're actually far from it.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 05, 2018, 03:18:26 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 05, 2018, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: dec on September 05, 2018, 02:36:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 05, 2018, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
To their electral base their firm beliefs doesn't seem strange.
Free Presbyterians represent about 0.8% of the population in the North, but account for around a third membership of the DUP. Id imagine these antics would seem strange to the average DUP voter alright, but its unlikely to stop them voting for them.
The Free Ps are not the only ones who believe that sort of stuff. Other Presbyterians, Baptists, various smaller denominations and the "non-denominational" churches are like that to some degree.
Most secular protestants are heavily influenced by Born Again Christians, even though they don't believe themselves or are not saved they give a lot of respect and creedance to those that are. This informs how they vote in my opinion, hence the DUP's mandate.
Or like the working class in England who consistently vote for the Conservatives and their public school educated leaders as they are born and reared to lead when they're actually far from it.
The "public school"/Oxbridge thing applies to Labour and conservatives
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45415640
I would love to see the bill for the 12th. Can't afford policing but spend millions on that.
Jonny throwing the SPAD's under the bus and not Arlene or any of the head honcho's.
Big balls I might add..
The ineptitude and deceit is staggering.
See in today's Irish News Sinn Fein tried to keep RHI open for another few weeks after it was gonna be closed, we have some crowd in this place.
Quote from: Kidder81 on September 06, 2018, 04:08:54 PM
See in today's Irish News Sinn Fein tried to keep RHI open for another few weeks after it was gonna be closed, we have some crowd in this place.
SF pressure DUP into issues they know they're against, so to prove NI doesn't work. Let's move to a UI.
DUP do likewise to prove SF and Nationalists won't accommodate them in a future UI. Let's stay in the UK.
If you do vote, you're helping to keep this circus rolling.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 06, 2018, 06:29:58 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on September 06, 2018, 04:08:54 PM
See in today's Irish News Sinn Fein tried to keep RHI open for another few weeks after it was gonna be closed, we have some crowd in this place.
SF pressure DUP into issues they know they're against, so to prove NI doesn't work. Let's move to a UI.
DUP do likewise to prove SF and Nationalists won't accommodate them in a future UI. Let's stay in the UK.
If you do vote, you're helping to keep this circus rolling.
Only if you vote for SF or the DUP. People love to give out but won't change their vote. Only one way to end this gravy train and that is to vote them out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45437388
What a joke.....fcking circus😡
Karen Bradley is on a roll this evening. In an interview she basically parrots the complete DUP policy on getting Stormont up and running and work on other issues 'on the side.'
To top this all off she then reveals that she wasn't aware that nationalists and unionists don't vote across party lines when she was first given the SoS portfolio.
Jonny now getting round to sucking Arlene into the mess;
"11:07
'Why did my adviser consult Foster about my business?'
Mr Bell's adviser asked DETI civil servants on behalf of Arlene Foster whether the assembly debate on passing the cost controls for the RHI scheme could be delayed by a week or two.
Tim Cairns posed the question after Mrs Foster had received a query from a constituent in her Fermanagh and South Tyrone constituency.
But a senior civil servant told him that delaying the cost controls by just a week would've added at least £2.6m a year over to the cost of the initiative over its 20-year lifetime.
Getty Images
Mr Bell says he wasn't aware of the request but he should've been told about it by his adviser.
"Why is my special adviser taking my departmental business and taking instructions... from Mrs Foster?" he asks.
He also wasn't told of the projected cost at the time and he "can't believe... why that didn't come in an urgent submission to the minister"."
Seems like these Ministers have awful bad memories or no one was telling them anything!
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/uk-regions/northern-ireland/news/98027/karen-bradley-i-did-not-know-people-northern-ireland
Karen Bradley has admitted she did not know voters in Northern Ireland split along constitutional lines before becoming its Secretary of State.
"I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn't understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland," she said.
"I didn't understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don't vote for unionist parties and vice-versa.
"So, the parties fight for the election within their own community. Actually, the unionist parties fight the elections against each other in unionist communities and nationalists in nationalist communities.
"That's a very different world from the world I came from where in Staffordshire Moorlands I was fighting a Labour-held seat as a Conservative politician and I was trying to put forward why you would want to switch from voting Labour to voting Conservative.
As Reginald Maudling said years ago on a flight out of Belfast "for God's sake, bring me a large scotch. What a bloody awful country". He was a Tory Home Secretary, so it looks like nothing much has changed since.
I hope someone explained to her how a game of Gaelic football is played before she went to the All Ireland final last Sunday
Quote from: give her dixie on September 07, 2018, 08:46:15 PM
I hope someone explained to her how a game of Gaelic football is played before she went to the All Ireland final last Sunday
I hope someone explained to her what contstitued a foul / free-kick etc. To the uninitiated, it is baffling.
Quote from: dec on September 07, 2018, 07:27:00 PM
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/uk-regions/northern-ireland/news/98027/karen-bradley-i-did-not-know-people-northern-ireland
Karen Bradley has admitted she did not know voters in Northern Ireland split along constitutional lines before becoming its Secretary of State.
"I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn't understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland," she said.
"I didn't understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don't vote for unionist parties and vice-versa.
"So, the parties fight for the election within their own community. Actually, the unionist parties fight the elections against each other in unionist communities and nationalists in nationalist communities.
"That's a very different world from the world I came from where in Staffordshire Moorlands I was fighting a Labour-held seat as a Conservative politician and I was trying to put forward why you would want to switch from voting Labour to voting Conservative.
Most English people know very little about NI. What love there is is mostly one way only
Quote from: michaelg on September 07, 2018, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on September 07, 2018, 08:46:15 PM
I hope someone explained to her how a game of Gaelic football is played before she went to the All Ireland final last Sunday
I hope someone explained to her what contstitued a foul / free-kick etc. To the uninitiated, it is baffling.
Even those of us initiated find referees baffling.
And then there's the playing rules of hurling .....and how they're applied.
Challenge and cheese ;D
It's not just Arlene's bigotry and hatred that shines through in this place.
Surely it would have been easier to drive past the Narrow water memorial that to go out of your way to desecrate it
Quote from: LCohen on September 16, 2018, 08:38:58 AM
It's not just Arlene's bigotry and hatred that shines through in this place.
Surely it would have been easier to drive past the Narrow water memorial that to go out of your way to desecrate it
Dont think anyone was going out of their way, think they were walking past on the footpath. It shouldnt of happened but dont exagerate
Quote from: Sweeper 123 on September 16, 2018, 08:47:20 AM
Quote from: LCohen on September 16, 2018, 08:38:58 AM
It's not just Arlene's bigotry and hatred that shines through in this place.
Surely it would have been easier to drive past the Narrow water memorial that to go out of your way to desecrate it
Dont think anyone was going out of their way, think they were walking past on the footpath. It shouldnt of happened but dont exagerate
It's good that we have an eyewitness to these unsavoury events. Surely the right thing will be done then?
I apologise profusely for my exaggeration. I was completely unaware that a group of individuals have travelled over 30 miles to a game and the way back stopped after a mile coincidentally at the sight of the memorial and in the act of walking along a footpath did damage to the memorial without in any way going out of their way to do so and then travelled on the remainder of their 30 mile journey. I can only say I'm sorry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45560092
A Democratic Unionist Party councillor has apologised to an Alliance Party member for claiming she was a "mouthpiece for the Provisional IRA".
The real issue here was the attempt to slur the ballymurphy families - said councillor seemed to miss that point and made it about herself a bit.
No recall for Ian beag
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/20/ian-paisley-dup-mp-survives-first-ever-recall-petition-lobbying
Recall? Sure he couldn't even "recall" several long distance holidays, when he wrote letters on behalf of the Sri Lankan government. Funny how he was re-admitted to the DUP fold on Tuesday, on the quiet, so his boss wasn't even waiting for the official announcement this morning (although she's probably very busy swotting up for her grilling next week). In no other walk of life do you get a "recall" opportunity ...it's usually called a P45.
Ian Og Logic
========
There 10,962 people registered on GAA Board.
One poster thinks my all posts are crap. Therefore 10,961 posters think all my posts are great.
Woo-hoo!
Quote from: Orior on September 20, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
Ian Og Logic
========
There 10,962 people registered on GAA Board.
One poster thinks my all posts are crap. Therefore 10,961 posters think all my posts are great.
Woo-hoo!
2 posters ;)
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 21, 2018, 05:04:02 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 20, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
Ian Og Logic
========
There 10,962 people registered on GAA Board.
One poster thinks my all posts are crap. Therefore 10,961 posters think all my posts are great.
Woo-hoo!
2 posters ;)
What chance we end up just shy of 10%?
Arlene could be in bother after lunch, think she has just been set for a fall.
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 25, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Arlene could be in bother after lunch, think she has just been set for a fall.
Dunno, they are all circling to throw Jonathan Bell under the bus. Making him out to be an unstable individual, who worshipped Peter Robinson and jealous of Arlene's leadership... ::)
Quote from: ziggysego on September 25, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 25, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Arlene could be in bother after lunch, think she has just been set for a fall.
Dunno, they are all circling to throw Jonathan Bell under the bus. Making him out to be an unstable individual, who worshipped Peter Robinson and jealous of Arlene's leadership... ::)
"Jonny" he was obviously put in the post to be walked over. Arlene knew what was going on.
Quote from: sensethetone on September 25, 2018, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 25, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 25, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Arlene could be in bother after lunch, think she has just been set for a fall.
Dunno, they are all circling to throw Jonathan Bell under the bus. Making him out to be an unstable individual, who worshipped Peter Robinson and jealous of Arlene's leadership... ::)
"Jonny" he was obviously put in the post to be walked over. Arlene knew what was going on.
Jonny is being fed to the wolves. It will be interesting if his "dossier" sees the light of day once this process completes and publishes their report.
Arlene knows nothing it seems and is keeping her nose clean. Ineptitude seems to be her get out clause.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 25, 2018, 02:46:04 PM
Quote from: sensethetone on September 25, 2018, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 25, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 25, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Arlene could be in bother after lunch, think she has just been set for a fall.
Dunno, they are all circling to throw Jonathan Bell under the bus. Making him out to be an unstable individual, who worshipped Peter Robinson and jealous of Arlene's leadership... ::)
"Jonny" he was obviously put in the post to be walked over. Arlene knew what was going on.
Jonny is being fed to the wolves. It will be interesting if his "dossier" sees the light of day once this process completes and publishes their report.
Arlene knows nothing it seems and is keeping her nose clean. Ineptitude seems to be her get out clause.
Am I missing something, because other than smearing Bells character I haven't seen anything in the evidence that enables them to throw him under the bus?
Quote from: HiMucker on September 25, 2018, 02:50:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 25, 2018, 02:46:04 PM
Quote from: sensethetone on September 25, 2018, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 25, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 25, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Arlene could be in bother after lunch, think she has just been set for a fall.
Dunno, they are all circling to throw Jonathan Bell under the bus. Making him out to be an unstable individual, who worshipped Peter Robinson and jealous of Arlene's leadership... ::)
"Jonny" he was obviously put in the post to be walked over. Arlene knew what was going on.
Jonny is being fed to the wolves. It will be interesting if his "dossier" sees the light of day once this process completes and publishes their report.
Arlene knows nothing it seems and is keeping her nose clean. Ineptitude seems to be her get out clause.
Am I missing something, because other than smearing Bells character I haven't seen anything in the evidence that enables them to throw him under the bus?
He's being accused of delaying the remedial actions to prevent further spiralling costs. Arlene has repeated this line a few times now.
RHI cost 500 million. This enquiry will cost millions more. What's the point? Nothing will come of it anyway, guilty or not.
The only way the enquiry will have been of use is if people change the way they vote and don't vote for the DUP or SF, and come back to the middle ground. That's not going to happen though.
I think the guy overseeing the inquiry, and who will compile its final report, has indicated in his line of questioning and looks of incredulity at some of the answers coming from the mediocre provincial solicitor and her minions, that he is less than impressed. I believe the report will excoriate the bitch ... but such is her arrogance, and the fact you could put a sash on a baboon from Bellevue and it would get elected by DUP voters, she won't resign. If that happens the Shinners, if they have any balls, should say they will never return to Stormont
Quote from: red hander on September 25, 2018, 04:29:36 PM
I think the guy overseeing the inquiry, and who will compile its final report, has indicated in his line of questioning and looks of incredulity at some of the answers coming from the mediocre provincial solicitor and her minions, that he is less than impressed. I believe the report will excoriate the bitch ... but such is her arrogance, and the fact you could put a sash on a baboon from Bellevue and it would get elected by DUP voters, she won't resign. If that happens the Shinners, if they have any balls, should say they will never return to Stormont
SF seem to have more involvement than they've been letting on.
Sam McBride
Verified account
@SJAMcBride
26m26 minutes ago
More
Senior counsel to the RHI Inquiry, David Scoffield QC, has just said that the final two-week delay in closing the RHI scheme - which Sinn Féin took credit for - led to a spike in applications which the Department of Finance estimated would cost £91.5 million over 20 years.
I think it was clear for everyone to see from the initial reluctance from SF to push for an inquiry, that they were up to their necks in this also.
There's an email from O'Muilleoir basically promising someone that he would do his best to get their application approved at the last minute.
Of course they'll say that they knew nothing as DUP ministers were responsible for overseeing and administering the project but there's just no way that was the case.
Sam McBride has been brilliant throughout the enquiry. Surely the DUP will have the knives out for him.
He's been excellent.
I see he's been accused of biased reporting today for bringing to light some of the SF involvement.
Which is totally ridiculous.
Quote from: angermanagement on September 25, 2018, 04:53:02 PM
Sam McBride has been brilliant throughout the enquiry. Surely the DUP will have the knives out for him.
Unlike the Daily Gail, which has gone out of its way to be soft on Robbie Coltrane
Pretty uncomfortable for Foster at times but no knock out blow today.
Quote from: Franko on September 25, 2018, 04:55:27 PM
He's been excellent.
I see he's been accused of biased reporting today for bringing to light some of the SF involvement.
Which is totally ridiculous.
His article about sinn fein after the primark fire was pathetic. On rhi he seems to have some credibility mind you.
And Arlene does it again, the GFA is not sacrosanct, is she on the army council or do the DUP think the the uncle tom's on the nationalist side won't eventually say enough.
One referendum can be overturned no probs to Arlene so by that logic...silly twat using that language. The amazing thing about the north at the moment is there isn't even a revolt a descenting powerful voice. There is nobody even attempting to make a name for themselves from the sidelines, no leaders or potential leaders.
Whilst the majority laugh at Arlene - she is now becoming one of the most dangerous political leaders in the world in my opinion. Her behaviour only fuels minority hardline republicans but if she is to continue on the path shes attempting I'd fear it would become more mainstream than minority!
Quote from: rrhf on October 02, 2018, 10:06:29 PM
One referendum can be overturned no probs to Arlene so by that logic...silly twat using that language. The amazing thing about the north at the moment is there isn't even a revolt a descenting powerful voice. There is nobody even attempting to make a name for themselves from the sidelines, no leaders or potential leaders.
It would depend on who steps up. Brexit more or less is orange vs green to the DUP , they don't need anymore wind.
The media should be doing more to expose the DUP 's lack of planning for Brexit.
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
Better off keeping a low profile. Arlene and DUP are surely going to alienate moderate protestants with their approach, and already are based on opinion polls on a UI if a hard brexit. By SF going at it, will make it tribal again and send those back into their traditional camp.
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Why then are the other parties not kicking up a storm? I wouldnt think the unionist will give a monkeys what the DUP do, its been shown up to be as corrupt as Russian politics and they still vote them in!
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Why then are the other parties not kicking up a storm? I wouldnt think the unionist will give a monkeys what the DUP do, its been shown up to be as corrupt as Russian politics and they still vote them in!
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
Why are you getting your knickers in a knot? Sure it's all going to be grand anyway.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Sums up politics here.
When SF hide, it means they know they have no power to do anything. Then they hope others screw up and make them look good even though they've done nothing.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Why then are the other parties not kicking up a storm? I wouldnt think the unionist will give a monkeys what the DUP do, its been shown up to be as corrupt as Russian politics and they still vote them in!
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
Why are you getting your knickers in a knot? Sure it's all going to be grand anyway.
Is this the Brexit thread or is there no differnce ?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Why then are the other parties not kicking up a storm? I wouldnt think the unionist will give a monkeys what the DUP do, its been shown up to be as corrupt as Russian politics and they still vote them in!
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
Why are you getting your knickers in a knot? Sure it's all going to be grand anyway.
Is this the Brexit thread or is there no differnce ?
What started all this was Arlene saying that the GFA wasn't sacrosanct in the context of Brexit. Keep up.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
The UUP have given up, Trimble is a the forefront of this stuff.
It would be helpful if the other parties issued a joint statement that the GFA was not for changing, but that Brexit should accomodate it.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 03, 2018, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
The UUP have given up, Trimble is a the forefront of this stuff.
It would be helpful if the other parties issued a joint statement that the GFA was not for changing, but that Brexit should accomodate it.
Swann was ching on a bacon soda at the DUP event.
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 04:38:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Why then are the other parties not kicking up a storm? I wouldnt think the unionist will give a monkeys what the DUP do, its been shown up to be as corrupt as Russian politics and they still vote them in!
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
Why are you getting your knickers in a knot? Sure it's all going to be grand anyway.
Is this the Brexit thread or is there no differnce ?
What started all this was Arlene saying that the GFA wasn't sacrosanct in the context of Brexit. Keep up.
Sure what's the worst that can happen? ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 04:54:05 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 04:38:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 03, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
From an nationalist perspective, Martin McGuinness is a real loss. Michelle O'Neill is a light weight and I am disappointed that the likes of Conor Murphy has not taken a more active lead. As for the SDLP they have become parrots for FF the sum total of policy is we are agin the sinners. Eastwood is worse than O'Neill and Mallon and Hannah despite initial promise are becoming cliched. Mary Lou has enough on her plate in the South. Someone needs to call this shit out, unfortunately too many nationalists take the uncle tom line.
I couldn't agree with this more. . . Where the f**k are Sinn Fein??!!
I think they are playing the whole 'don't interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake' role.
Why then are the other parties not kicking up a storm? I wouldnt think the unionist will give a monkeys what the DUP do, its been shown up to be as corrupt as Russian politics and they still vote them in!
Its about time SF/SDLP/UUP and whatever else is out there and get tore into them, it won't make a blind bit of difference to votes here, but detailing every little shambolic piece of crap that they have done and got away with would at the very least show them up to the buck eejits in London who befriend them at every turn, and hopefully their voters will ask the questions about being in bed with a bunch of gangsters
Why are you getting your knickers in a knot? Sure it's all going to be grand anyway.
Is this the Brexit thread or is there no differnce ?
What started all this was Arlene saying that the GFA wasn't sacrosanct in the context of Brexit. Keep up.
Sure what's the worst that can happen? ;D
You tell me. You're the authority on this stuff after all.
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Lol, what an intellectual powerhouse you are. ::)
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 01:01:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Lol, what an intellectual powerhouse you are. ::)
Well don't be shy Franko, with your obvious intellect and foresight what's actually going to happen in the next 6 months?
You could give mystic Meg a run for her money, I'm surprised you haven't been on the Andrew Marr show lately ::)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:39:32 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 01:01:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Lol, what an intellectual powerhouse you are. ::)
Well don't be shy Franko, with your obvious intellect and foresight what's actually going to happen in the next 6 months?
You could give mystic Meg a run for her money, I'm surprised you haven't been on the Andrew Marr show lately ::)
Again you're confused. You're the one with the spectacular foresight. Remember you told us we had to stop talking about it cos you knew it'd all be grand. Cos a bottle of wine was still a fiver. You seem to have changed your tune somewhat recently though. ;D
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:39:32 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 01:01:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Lol, what an intellectual powerhouse you are. ::)
Well don't be shy Franko, with your obvious intellect and foresight what's actually going to happen in the next 6 months?
You could give mystic Meg a run for her money, I'm surprised you haven't been on the Andrew Marr show lately ::)
Again you're confused. You're the one with the spectacular foresight. Remember you told us we had to stop talking about it cos you knew it'd all be grand. Cos a bottle of wine was still a fiver. You seem to have changed your tune somewhat recently though. ;D
So by your own admission, you havent a clue?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 09:08:00 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:39:32 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 01:01:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Lol, what an intellectual powerhouse you are. ::)
Well don't be shy Franko, with your obvious intellect and foresight what's actually going to happen in the next 6 months?
You could give mystic Meg a run for her money, I'm surprised you haven't been on the Andrew Marr show lately ::)
Again you're confused. You're the one with the spectacular foresight. Remember you told us we had to stop talking about it cos you knew it'd all be grand. Cos a bottle of wine was still a fiver. You seem to have changed your tune somewhat recently though. ;D
So by your own admission, you havent a clue?
?? ???
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:39:32 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 04, 2018, 01:01:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 03, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
When/if it happens Franko I'll let you know, as it's never happened before so I can only speculate to be honest. But I'm sure with the economic decline lately (12 odd years) it won't be great
Lol, what an intellectual powerhouse you are. ::)
You won't get a decent bottle for less than £10!
Well don't be shy Franko, with your obvious intellect and foresight what's actually going to happen in the next 6 months?
You could give mystic Meg a run for her money, I'm surprised you haven't been on the Andrew Marr show lately ::)
Again you're confused. You're the one with the spectacular foresight. Remember you told us we had to stop talking about it cos you knew it'd all be grand. Cos a bottle of wine was still a fiver. You seem to have changed your tune somewhat recently though. ;D
A "Have yourself a Derry little Christmas" billboard to promote Derry for Christmas shopping had been removed cod the DUP didn't like it. Not a single member of the public complained but the DUP insisted it came down anyway.....
BBC News - Christmas billboard removed after Derry/Londonderry row
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46300160
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
I think its just a moron thing, irrespective of political leaning. Some people go out of their way to be offended. Assholes
Mc Narry on the Nolan show there re 'have yourself a Derry little xmas' he is completely depressing. And the thing is the unionists who phoned him were disgusted with him.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
Unionists should be offended too, as they're not in Britain.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2018, 09:51:11 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
Unionists should be offended too, as they're not in Britain.
They are also not overburdened with talent.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2018, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2018, 09:51:11 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
Unionists should be offended too, as they're not in Britain.
They are also not overburdened with talent.
Wha?;
(https://www.mediastorehouse.com/p/210/george-best-manchester-united-10156300.jpg)
(https://www.mediastorehouse.com/p/210/alex-higgins-1986-embassy-world-snooker-5075044.jpg)
(https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/470166162_640.jpg)
and finally Jabba;
(https://cdn-03.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article36219887.ece/3d707/AUTOCROP/w620/nolan%20interruption.jpg)
Quote from: johnnycool on November 23, 2018, 10:52:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2018, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2018, 09:51:11 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
Unionists should be offended too, as they're not in Britain.
They are also not overburdened with talent.
Wha?;
(https://www.mediastorehouse.com/p/210/george-best-manchester-united-10156300.jpg)
(https://www.mediastorehouse.com/p/210/alex-higgins-1986-embassy-world-snooker-5075044.jpg)
(https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/470166162_640.jpg)
and finally Jabba;
(https://cdn-03.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article36219887.ece/3d707/AUTOCROP/w620/nolan%20interruption.jpg)
May's from a catholic background sorry to say
Actor - Yes
Character too?
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
No harm Jim, but I'm just going with the thread title and and not other fools bigotry!
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 23, 2018, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on November 23, 2018, 07:36:24 AM
These are the people leading the unionists forward !!!!!!!!!
At the risk of whataboutery, it's more than unionists that have such type of sensitivities (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/britains-talent-posters-row-erupts-15433801):
Surely someone working in a community centre could walk past a noticeboard with a Britain's Got Talent poster without feeling threatened enough to write a complaint?
Maybe it's a Nordie thing?
/Jim.
No harm Jim, but I'm just going with the thread title and and not other fools bigotry!
Fair point, apologies for going off topic.
/Jim.
Set the reminder on the TV Folks . . .
Ian Paisley facing new questions over luxury Maldives holiday
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46530569
(https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif)
Quote from: screenexile on December 11, 2018, 07:09:58 PM
Set the reminder on the TV Folks . . .
Ian Paisley facing new questions over luxury Maldives holiday
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-46530569
(https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif)
Cant wait. Shame the unionist population keep voting the c&nts in no matter what.
That p***k will still have nothing stick.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2018, 07:29:40 PM
That p***k will still have nothing stick.
Nice to have friends willing to pay for two high end on beach villas for 5 nights at £1K a night each though.
Surely this Government watchdog crew only need to ask Ian O'g to produce the financial transactions relating to this holiday to catch him out again.
Bloody weemen and their social media nonsense.........
Paisley Junior opposing cuts to RHI boiler remuneration tariffs? That sounds like he has another few free holidays lined up already then.
I see Arlene scooped the Female politician of the year tonight at an awards ceremony in London, the DUP are c**k of the walk since they gained power at Westminster.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 07, 2019, 10:48:26 PM
I see Arlene scooped the Female politician of the year tonight at an awards ceremony in London, the DUP are c**k of the walk since they gained power at Westminster.
well 57% of Protestants think she is a waste of space
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-poll-majority-in-north-unhappy-with-handling-of-brexit-by-may-and-dup-1.3818264
If only that 57% wouldn't vote DUPUDA.......
Quote from: Rossfan on March 07, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
If only that 57% wouldn't vote DUPUDA.......
Given the electoral turnout in NI, they probably don't vote DUP.
PS - Why persist with the juvenile DUPUDA? The DUP don't even use Sinn Fein / IRA anymore ffs.
Quote from: michaelg on March 08, 2019, 07:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 07, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
If only that 57% wouldn't vote DUPUDA.......
Given the electoral turnout in NI, they probably don't vote DUP.
PS - Why persist with the juvenile DUPUDA? The DUP don't even use Sinn Fein / IRA anymore ffs.
It's not only DUPUDA that get extra letters. Mayo, Sligo and even Leitrim get added letters to their names too.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 07, 2019, 10:48:26 PM
I see Arlene scooped the Female politician of the year tonight at an awards ceremony in London, the DUP are c**k of the walk since they gained power at Westminster.
She must have been the sole nominee.
She is probably as competent as Theresa May to be fair to her...
Arlene tell us your negotiation strategy ... "No". But Arlene what is your negotiation strategy.... "Well actually that's it..."
"And please welcome to the stage Sir Patrick Coughlin, who will present Arlene with her award".
Quote from: yellowcard on March 07, 2019, 10:48:26 PM
I see Arlene scooped the Female politician of the year tonight at an awards ceremony in London, the DUP are c**k of the walk since they gained power at Westminster.
The runners up were;
Karen Bradley for her work towards peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland
Amber Rudd for her work towards Racial Equality
Andrea Leadsom for her work towards eradicating Islamophobia from public life
Fiona Onasanya also in the running for her work on road safety.
Sammy Wilson for strategic awareness
Andrea Jenkyns for vision
https://mobile.twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1072261265249185793
Villers for services to Republicanism
https://mobile.twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1069169034850123776
Priti Patel for exposing the dangers of groupthink
https://youtu.be/QS7GOFHSE40
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2019, 10:55:29 AM
Sammy Wilson for strategic awareness
Andrea Jenkyns for vision
https://mobile.twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1072261265249185793
Villers for services to Republicanism
https://mobile.twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1069169034850123776
Priti Patel for exposing the dangers of groupthink
https://youtu.be/QS7GOFHSE40
Sammy Wilson became a woman, just to get an award?
Above all, Theresa May for Unity.
Quote from: michaelg on March 08, 2019, 07:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 07, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
If only that 57% wouldn't vote DUPUDA.......
Given the electoral turnout in NI, they probably don't vote DUP.
PS - Why persist with the juvenile DUPUDA? The DUP don't even use Sinn Fein / IRA anymore ffs.
When the DUP half start condemning UDA murder, intimidation, burning people out of their homes, drug dealing, racketeering, protection rackets.
When the DUP half condemn the placing of Tricolours , photos of Nationalist politicians, Catholic icons or statues on Loyalist Bonfires.
When the DUP half don't run to the UDA half for sanction of any draft agreement they make with other parties
Then and not till then will I drop the UDA part.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2019, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: michaelg on March 08, 2019, 07:20:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 07, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
If only that 57% wouldn't vote DUPUDA.......
Given the electoral turnout in NI, they probably don't vote DUP.
PS - Why persist with the juvenile DUPUDA? The DUP don't even use Sinn Fein / IRA anymore ffs.
When the DUP half start condemning UDA murder, intimidation, burning people out of their homes, drug dealing, racketeering, protection rackets.
When the DUP half condemn the placing of Tricolours , photos of Nationalist politicians, Catholic icons or statues on Loyalist Bonfires.
When the DUP half don't run to the UDA half for sanction of any draft agreement they make with other parties
Then and not till then will I drop the UDA part.
What a hero.
They are a hateful bunch of c***ts but they are not the UDA. Pretty sure they do the first 2 in any case.
Charter NI? Robin Newton seems to have been well in with Dee Stitt & others, such as Jackie McDonald, Jimmy Birch & Sam White. There is even a pic of a smiling Arlene, standing next to Stitt. Let's not forget Ulster Resistance, when the DUP openly tried to drum up fear, via the loyalist paramilitaries. What about Pengelly's family connections? There was a lot of shifty stuff going on that the DUP would rather gloss over & it still goes on to the present.
Kate Hoey for being a cnut, and a good friend of Jim Allister and RDE
Nelson Mc Causland successfully sued. A new Mid & East Antrim councillor (already on the public payroll as an MLA's assistant) exposed for his foul mouthed sectarian social media comments & rants. Just another day's work for the DUP.