I see Jacob is now third favourite in the betting to become next British PM.What a turn around if Britain was to be led by a devout Catholic who opposes abominations like same sex marriage and abortion as opposed to a neo liberal gay atheist in charge of the Free State.
Such a scenario is bound to increase support for the Union among Northern Catholics.
There is absolutely zero chance of Jacob Rees Mogg becoming even leader of the Conservatives, never mind PM.
Can we thank god for that if it doesnt happen?
I'm not so sure. I think the Mogster has the common touch and I'm sure he understands the issues facing poor people and can feel their pain and will act accordingly. He's a decent stick. A spunky fellow.
I always thought Jacob Rees Mogg was a fictional makey uppy joke character.
A bit like a DUP supporting poppy buying Northern Catholic....
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
I see Jacob is now third favourite in the betting to become next British PM.What a turn around if Britain was to be led by a devout Catholic who opposes abominations like same sex marriage and abortion as opposed to a neo liberal gay atheist in charge of the Free State.
Such a scenario is bound to increase support for the Union among Northern Catholics.
Tony,, maybe it increases it by 1
Gay marriage will split the DUP
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
I see Jacob is now third favourite in the betting to become next British PM.What a turn around if Britain was to be led by a devout Catholic who opposes abominations like same sex marriage and abortion as opposed to a neo liberal gay atheist in charge of the Free State.
Such a scenario is bound to increase support for the Union among Northern Catholics.
Like too many of his ilk professing to be devout Catholics condemning abortion and redefining marriage as a badge showing the strength of their faith he shows little in terms of true Christianity. A quick review of his voting record will show that this self professed devout Catholic has voted to extend austerity for the weakest in society and voted to reduce welfare payments to the disabled. Obviously keen on the Catholic Church's stance on matters relating to sex and sexuality but not big on the Beatitudes and how each of us should treat others.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes#business (https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes#business)
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 09, 2017, 08:07:58 AM
There is absolutely zero chance of Jacob Rees Mogg becoming even leader of the Conservatives, never mind PM.
and even less chance of shinner voting fenians converting.
I am afraid the neo liberal and increasingly atheistic 26 counties is another definite deterrent for unionists against a United Ireland.Gay marriage would have negligible support among unionists of all hues (not to mention devout Catholics who are deserting SF and SDLP on account of this)and one of the incentives for the late Ian Paisley going into government with Sinn Fein,was,by so doing,unionists could ensure the prohibition on gay marriage was maintained in the North.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 08:35:23 PM
I am afraid the neo liberal and increasingly atheistic 26 counties is another definite deterrent for unionists against a United Ireland.Gay marriage would have negligible support among unionists of all hues (not to mention devout Catholics who are deserting SF and SDLP on account of this)and one of the incentives for the late Ian Paisley going into government with Sinn Fein,was,by so doing,unionists could ensure the prohibition on gay marriage was maintained in the North.
Aye the Shinner vote is way down these days...
So there are no Gay Unionists?
There are,but the unionist bloc is overwhelmingly opposed to gay marriage and this is another deterrent to unity.
I suspect a large number of "pro Union" people have no problem with gay marriage.
I don't recall the GFA saying anything about gay marriage???
Quote from: Rossfan on September 09, 2017, 09:43:26 PM
I suspect a large number of "pro Union" people have no problem with gay marriage.
Polls show this. They have as little respect for marriage as the Taigs, on balance.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 09, 2017, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 09, 2017, 09:43:26 PM
I suspect a large number of "pro Union" people have no problem with gay marriage.
Polls show this. They have as little respect for marriage as the Taigs, on balance.
Or as much respect :o
Completely and utterly wrong.How come if this is the case gay marriage has not been introduced in the North? Not a single Unionist MLA is in favour of if,unlike the sheep in SF,SDLP and Alliance who tow the party line.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 08:35:23 PM
I am afraid the neo liberal and increasingly atheistic 26 counties is another definite deterrent for unionists against a United Ireland.Gay marriage would have negligible support among unionists of all hues (not to mention devout Catholics who are deserting SF and SDLP on account of this)and one of the incentives for the late Ian Paisley going into government with Sinn Fein,was,by so doing,unionists could ensure the prohibition on gay marriage was maintained in the North.
Well we can write a letter to Leo asking him to declare the Burren and Newgrange to be 2000 years old and clarify that when Old Croghan Man was found preserved in the bog, bedad wasn't his scrawny old hand clutching a bible, the King James Version no less. Perhaps that could speed things up.
What is completely and utterly wrong? Gay marriag or the fact that if the north does something it must be right? Rhi scandal? Deals with theresa may? List goes on.... Not exactly a solid basis for an argument.
Entitled to your opininion but not a stand up argument...
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 09, 2017, 10:22:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 09, 2017, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 09, 2017, 09:43:26 PM
I suspect a large number of "pro Union" people have no problem with gay marriage.
Polls show this. They have as little respect for marriage as the Taigs, on balance.
Or as much respect :o
Indeed, the communities in the North are not much different, great effort has to be put into exaggerating differences to keep things going.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 10:34:07 PM
Completely and utterly wrong.How come if this is the case gay marriage has not been introduced in the North? Not a single Unionist MLA is in favour of if,unlike the sheep in SF,SDLP and Alliance who tow the party line.
All parties are suppressing opinion.
Tommy it is completely and utterly wrong to suggest any significant portion of unionism favours gay marriage.If the Unionist community alone was tested in a referendum, I doubt if those in favour of it would exceed 10%.
Therefore if the aim is to attract unionism to the concept of a United Ireland,the fact that Gay marriage is legal in the south,and presumably therefore legal in any new All island dispensation,this would be another very serious deterrent.
Quote from: heganboy on September 09, 2017, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
I see Jacob is now third favourite in the betting to become next British PM.What a turn around if Britain was to be led by a devout Catholic who opposes abominations like same sex marriage and abortion as opposed to a neo liberal gay atheist in charge of the Free State.
Such a scenario is bound to increase support for the Union among Northern Catholics.
Tony,, maybe it increases it by 1
Gay marriage will split the DUP
Love will tear us apart
Again
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 05:46:08 AM
Tommy it is completely and utterly wrong to suggest any significant portion of unionism favours gay marriage.If the Unionist community alone was tested in a referendum, I doubt if those in favour of it would exceed 10%.
Therefore if the aim is to attract unionism to the concept of a United Ireland,the fact that Gay marriage is legal in the south,and presumably therefore legal in any new All island dispensation,this would be another very serious deterrent.
If the choice was between a tax increasé or a tax cut plus support for gay marriage they would vote for gay marriage
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 05:46:08 AM
Tommy it is completely and utterly wrong to suggest any significant portion of unionism favours gay marriage.If the Unionist community alone was tested in a referendum, I doubt if those in favour of it would exceed 10%.
Therefore if the aim is to attract unionism to the concept of a United Ireland,the fact that Gay marriage is legal in the south,and presumably therefore legal in any new All island dispensation,this would be another very serious deterrent.
Any basis to that 10% figure or are you just pulling it out of your hole.
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
The BBC documentary on DUP voters showed that plenty of them don't have any problem with gay marriage.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on September 10, 2017, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
The BBC documentary on DUP voters showed that plenty of them don't have any problem with gay marriage.
I think most people just aren't arsed, (no pun) even though we are continually told it's a massive issue
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
I see Jacob is now third favourite in the betting to become next British PM.What a turn around if Britain was to be led by a devout Catholic who opposes abominations like same sex marriage and abortion as opposed to a neo liberal gay atheist in charge of the Free State.
Such a scenario is bound to increase support for the Union among Northern Catholics.
If Guy Fawkes works out we shall have a Papist leader again.
So said Sir Anthony Fearon from his bothán on the shores of Lough Neath after the family was dispossessed during the plantation.
Why then is gay marriage still outlawed in the North with no significant protest either?
Binary differences in attitudes to religion and social issues among a myriad of other things are barriers to Irish re unification
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
Why then is gay marriage still outlawed in the North with no significant protest either?
Binary differences in attitudes to religion and social issues among a myriad of other things are barriers to Irish re unification
Northern Ireland is settler colonial. Nature is repressed by protestant orthodoxy.
NI is insane
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/03/17/ulster-unionist-leader-finally-backs-equal-marriage-in-northern-ireland-after-quitting-his-job/amp/ (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/03/17/ulster-unionist-leader-finally-backs-equal-marriage-in-northern-ireland-after-quitting-his-job/amp/)
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-says-yes-to-samesex-marriage-latest-polling-finds-35281876.html (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-says-yes-to-samesex-marriage-latest-polling-finds-35281876.html)
As the DUP says often,the only poll that matters is the ballot box.The reason Mike Nesbitt is no longer a Unionist leader is due to being out of touch with the electorate.The fact that he announces this out of office proves he knows this is a vote loser.
There is a difference between Unionism and Protestant(ism). Lots of unionists vote for DUP due to their fear of a united Ireland, nothing else. They will find some of their policies hard to swallow but the nature of politics in the north is that one issue dominates over most. What percentage are against same sex marriage as well is difficult to define, I would have thought.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 02:35:41 PM
As the DUP says often,the only poll that matters is the ballot box.The reason Mike Nesbitt is no longer a Unionist leader is due to being out of touch with the electorate.The fact that he announces this out of office proves he knows this is a vote loser.
the only poll thst matters is demographic
I confidently assert there is a clear majority in both communities in the North opposed to same sex marriage and I bet SF drop this red line as they know the DUP will never agree to it
You confidently assert based on what?
I would say sf will end up dropping mind yu.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on September 09, 2017, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
I see Jacob is now third favourite in the betting to become next British PM.What a turn around if Britain was to be led by a devout Catholic who opposes abominations like same sex marriage and abortion as opposed to a neo liberal gay atheist in charge of the Free State.
Such a scenario is bound to increase support for the Union among Northern Catholics.
Like too many of his ilk professing to be devout Catholics condemning abortion and redefining marriage as a badge showing the strength of their faith he shows little in terms of true Christianity. A quick review of his voting record will show that this self professed devout Catholic has voted to extend austerity for the weakest in society and voted to reduce welfare payments to the disabled. Obviously keen on the Catholic Church's stance on matters relating to sex and sexuality but not big on the Beatitudes and how each of us should treat others.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes#business (https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes#business)
Very true. The hand that gives is holier than the mouth that prays!
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
Not one of the UUP members support gay marriage. Andy Allen from UUP supports it. The forner leader Mike Nesbitt also supports it and if it comes to a vote in the assembly Im sure others will support as well so the above statement is complete bullshit
It is not bullshit.Gay marriage is illegal in the North and will remain so,reflecting the wishes of a significant majority of the people including many SF and SDLP voters.
What basis do you have for saying there is a significant majority? It will remain illegal yes. With the "democratic" unionist party at the helm a majority is neither here nor there which is why it will remain illegal.
But it undeniably represents the view on the subject of a majority of the electorate in both communities.
Tony is like De Valera. All he has to do is look into his heart to know the wishes of the (Nothern) Irish people.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 06:41:48 AM
It is not bullshit.Gay marriage is illegal in the North and will remain so,reflecting the wishes of a significant majority of the people including many SF and SDLP voters.
Your post stated not one person from UUP/DUP dupported gay marriage. I named two - nesbitt and and andy allen so yes your statement is bullshit. UUP have also stated as a party its a choice of oersonal conscience as too how their members votes so you now know how every UUP MLA vote even though they may not know themselves?
Ok one,that is one,Unionist MLA,who needs votes from all and sundry in East Belfast,softens his opposition to Gay Marriage.Doesn't detract from the fact that a clear majority in both communities remains opposed to it and watch this week as it is erased from SF's Red Lines.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 09:54:57 AM
Ok one,that is one,Unionist MLA,who needs votes from all and sundry in East Belfast,softens his opposition to Gay Marriage.Doesn't detract from the fact that a clear majority in both communities remains opposed to it and watch this week as it is erased from SF's Red Lines.
Is Nesbitt not still an MLA?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 09:54:57 AM
Ok one,that is one,Unionist MLA,who needs votes from all and sundry in East Belfast,softens his opposition to Gay Marriage.Doesn't detract from the fact that a clear majority in both communities remains opposed to it and watch this week as it is erased from SF's Red Lines.
The clear majority in both communities remain opposed to it? Where are you getting this from? In 2015 41 Nationalist MLAs voted for it before it was blocked by DUP Petition of concern - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-34692546
It may be dropped from a SF red line but watch as it sails through the assembly if it ever gets up and running with a reformed Petition of concern
Nesbitt abstained the last time.Him and Allen are sitting on the fence.No Unionist has actually ever voted for gay marriage in the Assembly and none ever will.SF and SDLP are reaching a critical point where they are already losing votes from catholics on account of this.They will not push it.Can you see a staunch gay loyalist voting for SF because they support gay marriage?
Jasus Tony you've got a major hang up about gay marriage.
Or is a case of 17th century mindset?
Just out of curiosity Tony, why are you so against equal marriage? I can't say it something that bothers me in the slightest if a man wants to marry another man or a woman wants to marry a woman.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 12:25:31 PM
Nesbitt abstained the last time.Him and Allen are sitting on the fence.No Unionist has actually ever voted for gay marriage in the Assembly and none ever will.SF and SDLP are reaching a critical point where they are already losing votes from catholics on account of this.They will not push it.Can you see a staunch gay loyalist voting for SF because they support gay marriage?
What a load of horse shite!
Quote from: punt kick on September 11, 2017, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 12:25:31 PM
Nesbitt abstained the last time.Him and Allen are sitting on the fence.No Unionist has actually ever voted for gay marriage in the Assembly and none ever will.SF and SDLP are reaching a critical point where they are already losing votes from catholics on account of this.They will not push it.Can you see a staunch gay loyalist voting for SF because they support gay marriage?
What a load of horse shite!
exactly - another ludicrous point with no basis in fact - in the last assembly elections SF got their biggest vote ever
I don't believe anything that is counter to the natural order,should be legislated as equal to the natural order.I see very little difference between triumphalist gay pride parades and Orange Order parades,all just sticking two fingers up at their opponents,in my view.
Neither do I believe any of the political parties that support gay marriage in the North,really care.The old guard of the SDLP like Hume and Mallon would never have supported it,the current young leadership doesn't know its arse from its elbow,and SF supports anything that they perceive to be a vote winner.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 11, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
Jasus Tony you've got a major hang up about gay marriage.
Or is a case of 17th century mindset?
It might be projection
which is usually a reflection of the self
Are you suggesting Tony is gay Seafóid?? :o
Maybe he's trying to avoid marrying his partner :-*
A simple google search shows 70% of voters in Norn Iron in favour of marriage equality.
However, Tony knows otherwise.
I do admire his chutzpah!
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on September 11, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
Quote from: punt kick on September 11, 2017, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 12:25:31 PM
Nesbitt abstained the last time.Him and Allen are sitting on the fence.No Unionist has actually ever voted for gay marriage in the Assembly and none ever will.SF and SDLP are reaching a critical point where they are already losing votes from catholics on account of this.They will not push it.Can you see a staunch gay loyalist voting for SF because they support gay marriage?
What a load of horse shite!
exactly - another ludicrous point with no basis in fact - in the last assembly elections SF got their biggest vote ever
Maybe they lost one clown? Made for the dup this guy is.
The only good thing about JRM becoming PM would be the looks on the DUP's faces when a Catholic takes charge of the UK.
Has this ever happened before? IIRC Blair didn't openly convert to Catholicism until after he left office.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 11, 2017, 05:12:54 PM
Are you suggesting Tony is gay Seafóid?? :o
Maybe he's trying to avoid marrying his partner :-*
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person unconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to other people. . .
. . . The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud – in his letters to Wilhelm Fliess, "'Draft H' deals with projection as a mechanism of defence" – and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud; for this reason, it is sometimes referred to as Freudian Projection.
According to Sigmund Freud, projection is a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one's own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else. 'Emotions or excitations which the ego tries to ward off are "split out" and then felt as being outside the ego...perceived in another person'.[4] It is a common process.[5] . . .
. . . In one example of the process, a person might have thoughts of infidelity with respect to a spouse or other partner. Instead of dealing with these undesirable thoughts consciously, the subject unconsciously projects these feelings onto the other person, and begins to think that the other has thoughts of infidelity and that the other may be having an affair. In this way, the subject may obtain 'acquittal by his conscience – if he projects his own impulses to faithlessness on to the partner to whom he owes faith'.[7]
Maybe Tony is sui generis
It is hard to know
I think he is a walking psychology conference
Tony has actually matured in his own way since he won the all Ireland in 2003.
I found this on the wayback machine
Hardyarse
I admire Armagh's football and the childish spewings of this nauseating p***k wouldn't have the slightest effect on my opinion. I usually don't read his posts, in the same way that I would decline if a wino with running lip sores offered me a swig from his bottle. But every thread I visit this morning , this irritating creep is there chirruping inanities, bleating about Armagh's win as if he had something to do with it or somehow gained some reflected glory from it and gratuitously spewing bile at just about everyone else. There's no analysis, no talk about the game, the tactics, the decisive events, the form of players or anything that would indicate the slightest interest in the game itself, other than to use it as a vehicle to haul his own insecurities and inadequacies out here in front of us all when we'd rather not look, thanks all the same.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 02:40:00 PM
I don't believe anything that is counter to the natural order,should be legislated as equal to the natural order.I see very little difference between triumphalist gay pride parades and Orange Order parades,all just sticking two fingers up at their opponents,in my view.
Neither do I believe any of the political parties that support gay marriage in the North,really care.The old guard of the SDLP like Hume and Mallon would never have supported it,the current young leadership doesn't know its arse from its elbow,and SF supports anything that they perceive to be a vote winner.
Counter to the natural order. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 11, 2017, 08:14:11 PM
The only good thing about JRM becoming PM would be the looks on the DUP's faces when a Catholic takes charge of the UK.
Has this ever happened before? IIRC Blair didn't openly convert to Catholicism until after he left office.
Don't think a Catholic has ever led any of the main parties let alone become PM.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on September 11, 2017, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 11, 2017, 08:14:11 PM
The only good thing about JRM becoming PM would be the looks on the DUP's faces when a Catholic takes charge of the UK.
Has this ever happened before? IIRC Blair didn't openly convert to Catholicism until after he left office.
Don't think a Catholic has ever led any of the main parties let alone become PM.
Iain Duncan Smith former Tory leader is a Catholic
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 11, 2017, 09:05:45 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on September 11, 2017, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 11, 2017, 08:14:11 PM
The only good thing about JRM becoming PM would be the looks on the DUP's faces when a Catholic takes charge of the UK.
Has this ever happened before? IIRC Blair didn't openly convert to Catholicism until after he left office.
Don't think a Catholic has ever led any of the main parties let alone become PM.
Iain Duncan Smith former Tory leader is a Catholic
nominally
and Disraeli was Jewish. So were Howard and Miliband
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
Tony,
This is a series of completely unrelated statements. Tell me about this sizable portion of devout Catholics, care to put a number on it? No MLAs support gay marriage therefore none of their voters do? No turkeys vote for Christmas therefore it doesn't exist.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 09:27:38 PM
There are,but the unionist bloc is overwhelmingly opposed to gay marriage and this is another deterrent to unity.
I'd be fairly certain that a majority of unionists would be pro marriage equality. A healthy majority
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 10:34:07 PM
Completely and utterly wrong.How come if this is the case gay marriage has not been introduced in the North? Not a single Unionist MLA is in favour of if,unlike the sheep in SF,SDLP and Alliance who tow the party line.
Once again you prove yourself incapable of even basic analysis.
You know rightly that there is a bible belt core with high voter turnout. Unionist politicians have become beholden to this group. Does not make the group representative of unionists
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 05:46:08 AM
Tommy it is completely and utterly wrong to suggest any significant portion of unionism favours gay marriage.If the Unionist community alone was tested in a referendum, I doubt if those in favour of it would exceed 10%.
Therefore if the aim is to attract unionism to the concept of a United Ireland,the fact that Gay marriage is legal in the south,and presumably therefore legal in any new All island dispensation,this would be another very serious deterrent.
I now know why you believe in god.
The world is a complete mystery to you
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Well the DUP/UUP attract all unionist voters.Not one of their MLAs supports Gay Marriage.A referendum on gay marriage in the North would comfortably endorse the continued ban as the sizeable portion of devout catholics would combine with unionists on this issue.
Some people vote on a single issue. Some on multiple. Some attach relative importance to an issue that others don't.
Some people vote. Some don't
Some will vote on constitutional or single social issues but not bother in party based elections.
How does your complex psephological analysis weigh up these issues?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 05:26:49 PM
I confidently assert there is a clear majority in both communities in the North opposed to same sex marriage and I bet SF drop this red line as they know the DUP will never agree to it
I confidently assert that your grasp on reality is tenuous
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 06:41:48 AM
It is not bullshit.Gay marriage is illegal in the North and will remain so,reflecting the wishes of a significant majority of the people including many SF and SDLP voters.
Have a referendum. That will sort it
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2017, 07:42:24 AM
But it undeniably represents the view on the subject of a majority of the electorate in both communities.
You don't know what "undeniably" means, do you?
I think the older demographic,from which the majority of votes in the North come,are highly conservative and church going in both communities,and this would comfortably reject gay marriage in any referendum.I think that is undeniable.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 02:38:11 PM
I think the older demographic,from which the majority of votes in the North come,are highly conservative and church going in both communities,and this would comfortably reject gay marriage in any referendum.I think that is undeniable.
In any referendum?
In 20 years' time ?
Twenty years time who knows what will happen,with gender confusion etc.Hopefully my race will be run by that stage.
Disraeli converted away from Judaism to get elected, IIRC.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 10, 2017, 05:26:49 PM
I confidently assert there is a clear majority in both communities in the North opposed to same sex marriage and I bet SF drop this red line as they know the DUP will never agree to it
Here Tony, the KKK are looking for a new leader, you should give it a go as it lines up nicely with your unchristian view of christianity.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 11, 2017, 08:00:02 PM
A simple google search shows 70% of voters in Norn Iron in favour of marriage equality.
However, Tony knows otherwise.
I do admire his chutzpah!
Here is the latest polling by LucidTalk from last week:
(https://i.imgur.com/nfkyoGB.jpg?1)
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 02:38:11 PM
I think the older demographic,from which the majority of votes in the North come,are highly conservative and church going in both communities,and this would comfortably reject gay marriage in any referendum.I think that is undeniable.
This majority you speak off is typical in a Westminster or Stormont election. A referendum like this would be a completely different kettle of fish. It would bring out the young vote in force as people will see this as a chance to vote for something progressive and which their vote will actually count to make real change.
Quote from: LCohen on September 12, 2017, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 09:27:38 PM
There are,but the unionist bloc is overwhelmingly opposed to gay marriage and this is another deterrent to unity.
I'd be fairly certain that a majority of unionists would be pro marriage equality. A healthy majority
Maybe not? From the same Lucid Talk poll that Owen quotes below, on marraige equality:
If a referendum was held tomorrow which way would you vote (UNIONISTS ONLY)
For: 37.5%
Against: 56.25%DK: 6.25%
If a referendum was held tomorrow which way would you vote (NATIONALISTS & REPUBLICANS ONLY)
For: 91.4%
Against: 7.00%
DK: 1.6%
The opinion polls were not very accurate in the last two UK elections.There is insufficient nos to vote for this.The non Church going hetrosexual community are apathetic,whereas Unionism and a big number of catholics would be motivated to vote against,including myself.
Quote from: Fat Angry Motorist on September 15, 2017, 05:52:01 PM
Quote from: LCohen on September 12, 2017, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 09, 2017, 09:27:38 PM
There are,but the unionist bloc is overwhelmingly opposed to gay marriage and this is another deterrent to unity.
I'd be fairly certain that a majority of unionists would be pro marriage equality. A healthy majority
Maybe not? From the same Lucid Talk poll that Owen quotes below, on marraige equality:
If a referendum was held tomorrow which way would you vote (UNIONISTS ONLY)
For: 37.5%
Against: 56.25%
DK: 6.25%
If a referendum was held tomorrow which way would you vote (NATIONALISTS & REPUBLICANS ONLY)
For: 91.4%
Against: 7.00%
DK: 1.6%
The 'Nat-Rep' result is enhanced by an anti Catholic Church establishment sentiment held by a significant number of voters whereas the Unionist vote doesn't have such an anti Church element but is affected by a similar element as the 'Nat-Rep', 'if themuns are for I'm agin it' N.Ireland syndrome. Given that in the Assembly votes on redefining Marriage have been carried substantially by a SF, SDLP, AP, PBP & GP voting block, the issue like the ILA is being politicised and weaponised by those accusing their political enemies of doing the same. Such is the perversity of politics in NI.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 06:15:55 PM
The opinion polls were not very accurate in the last two UK elections.There is insufficient nos to vote for this.The non Church going hetrosexual community are apathetic,whereas Unionism and a big number of catholics would be motivated to vote against,including myself.
Actually, LucidTalk polls as been consistently been accurate in recent elections.
That aside though, why do you present polls (with no link to back up your claim) as the will of the people,yet polls which counteract your views as inaccurate?
On the basis that Gay Marriage is opposed practically unanimously by unionists,and no serious catholic can possibly endorse this,I have the utmost confidence that any referendum on this subject,at the end of a campaign during which all the Churches will come together in their support of maintaining the status quo,which is bound to p***k consciences on the lukewarm Catholics side,that status quo will comfortably be maintained.
There can be no equality between the normal and abnormal.
Render unto Ceaser.......
Civil marriage is a Ceaser function.
The sky hasn't fallen in on the 26 Counties as we get on with 21st Century life.
Christians are duty bound to live for Christ,that is all they do,to vocally remind people that this is wrong and sinful.They cannot stop gay marriage if that is what Caesar ordains,but they are duty bound to oppose it and strive to prevent it.
Mary McAleese wouldn't agree.
She is not in my view a real Catholic,just an academic who doesn't understand you cannot water down what you believe to be truth
I would say quite a few views you hold are not particularly christian. I guess if i applied your same rationale i would deem you to not be a real catholic. We are all entitled to our opinions :D
A real Catholic accepts the teachings of his or her Church,and doesn't try to water these down,under the guise of some false compassion,when a family member is adversely effected
Can you show me where you got that definition from?
Catholic faith,based on scripture,states and always has stated categorically that homosexuality is sinful.Mrs Mc Aleese begs to disagree.Very simple.
Did Jesus condemn homosexuality anywhere in the Bible?
Does the Catholic Church teach that God makes us in His image?
Therefore he makes the Gays - so how can they be declared "sinful"
Homosexuality is sinful according to the Bible.Jesus didn't have time during his short life time to comment on everything.God does make everyone in his own image,even murderers,rapists etc.People sadly choose to things like this
If Gaaboard.com had been around, we would have had every waking thought of the Son Of God recorded for posterity.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 07:38:51 PM
Homosexuality is sinful according to the Bible.
Old Testament???
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 07:38:51 PM
Homosexuality is sinful according to the Bible.Jesus didn't have time during his short life time to comment on everything.God does make everyone in his own image,even murderers,rapists etc.People sadly choose to things like this
If Jesus never said being gay is sinful, then who did Tony?
https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 10:16:46 AM
On the basis that Gay Marriage is opposed practically unanimously by unionists,and no serious catholic can possibly endorse this,I have the utmost confidence that any referendum on this subject,at the end of a campaign during which all the Churches will come together in their support of maintaining the status quo,which is bound to p***k consciences on the lukewarm Catholics side,that status quo will comfortably be maintained.
There can be no equality between the normal and abnormal.
Tony I object strongly to your unchristian use of the word abnormal, there is nothing abnormal about gay people. If you are such a true believer then you would accept that they are made in Gods image. But you are not, like most evangelicals you have a narrow bigoted view of what Christ taught that backs up your own distasteful prejudice.
I was referring to gay marriage as being abnormal not gay people.Anything contrary to the normal order is abnormal,this is not a deragotry term.
So you have no problem with 2 people of the same sex "Co habiting" or in a legal union of some kind but don't dare let it be legally recognised as a marriage because that would then become "abnormal"?????
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 07:38:51 PM
Homosexuality is sinful according to the Bible.Jesus didn't have time during his short life time to comment on everything.God does make everyone in his own image,even murderers,rapists etc.People sadly choose to things like this
Post the exact text and whom it was "written by" in the Bible - this should be good, don't think I ever read the bible, Harry Potter would offer one better moral guidance.
Sodom?
Do I need to? As every Christian Church preaches homosexuality is sinful I think we can be confident that this belief is scripturally based.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 10:46:07 AM
Do I need to? As every Christian Church preaches homosexuality is sinful I think we can be confident that this belief is scripturally based.
No we can't it is based on prejudice and bigotry and very much against the actual teachings of Christ.
Now that is absurd and totally stupid.Every Christian Church has examined scripture and all theologians agree that scripture decrees homosexuality to be sinful.It is not bigotry or prejudice in any way.
What would Jesus do?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 10:46:07 AM
Do I need to? As every Christian Church preaches homosexuality is sinful I think we can be confident that this belief is scripturally based.
Please do I don't read scripture - can you post the actual text here where it says in the bible homosexuality is a sin. Thanks.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 08:45:38 AM
I was referring to gay marriage as being abnormal not gay people.Anything contrary to the normal order is abnormal,this is not a deragotry term.
Yet you would disown a child if they were gay ::)
I am amused by the fake concern for gay people on this thread.I'm guessing those professing mock outrage wouldn't be seen dead in a gay bar or any other scenario that would risk others even perceiving there's a remote possibility of them being gay themselves.It's just anything to bash the Catholic Church.
Don't judge us all by your standards
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
I am amused by the fake concern for gay people on this thread.I'm guessing those professing mock outrage wouldn't be seen dead in a gay bar or any other scenario that would risk others even perceiving there's a remote possibility of them being gay themselves.It's just anything to bash the Catholic Church.
My concern is not fake, I have close family who are gay and my concern is based on the detrimental effect the bile espoused by you and your so called fellow Christians has had on their well being. As you have been unable to demonstrate where Jesus christ stated his opposition to gay people we can just conclude that you are talking crap.
The same abuse as I and other believers have to endure? Believe what you want,scripture is composed of both Old and New Testaments.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 04:44:51 PM
The same abuse as I and other believers have to endure? Believe what you want,scripture is composed of both Old and New Testaments.
Post the text.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 04:44:51 PM
The same abuse as I and other believers have to endure? Believe what you want,scripture is composed of both Old and New Testaments.
Last throw of the dice. If cornered, start playing the victim.
It is laughable to claim gays are victims now.They have been granted everything,if you even mention certain words that were used frequently on tv sitcoms in the seventies you'd likely be arrested and charged with homophobic hate crimes.
On the other hand all aspects of Christianity are being stripped away,even Grace before the Lord Mayor's Dinner in Belfast,and those who complain about it or even profess to being Christian are ridiculed and vilified.
Have a cup of tea & an Ashers traybake to go with it (don't forget to give thanks before you tuck in).
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 07:42:07 PM
It is laughable to claim gays are victims now.They have been granted everything,if you even mention certain words that were used frequently on tv sitcoms in the seventies you'd likely be arrested and charged with homophobic hate crimes.
On the other hand all aspects of Christianity are being stripped away,even Grace before the Lord Mayor's Dinner in Belfast,and those who complain about it or even profess to being Christian are ridiculed and vilified.
In the pantheon of the ludicrous and ridiculous statements you have made over the years that is right up there. Like most zealots you can't see the log in your own eye as you twist and invent Christ's teaching to support your own bigotry. So much for love thy neighbour, and casting the first stone.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 07:20:42 PM
https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality
What complete horse shite - you must be on the wind.
Quote from: punt kick on September 18, 2017, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 04:44:51 PM
The same abuse as I and other believers have to endure? Believe what you want,scripture is composed of both Old and New Testaments.
Post the text.
Leviticus 11:10 ESV
But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you.
Ah wait that's the one about shellfish its another bit around here that's about the gays, next thing you know after gay marriage the gay lobby will be looking to make us all eat shellfish.
As I say you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.I am so comfortable with my beliefs that I have no inclination whatsoever to keep ridiculing those of others.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 02:38:34 PM
As I say you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.I am so comfortable with my beliefs that I have no inclination whatsoever to keep ridiculing those of others.
There's better uses for your undoubted & quite unique "talents". Why not volunteer to the Society of African Missions in Dromantine & go out to sell Catholicism to the Africans for a few years & give all good GAA men & women a bit of peace??
He's too busy buying a poppy from his neighbour ;)
I heard he's being lined up for the job of Honorary Grand Marshal at Belfast Pride 2018.
Just picture the scenario,lying on your death bed,you draw your last breath,and discover that you were wrong in your lack of belief.Dire consequences😱😥😥
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:19:50 PM
Just picture the scenario,lying on your death bed,you draw your last breath,and discover that you were wrong in your lack of belief.Dire consequences😱😥😥
Sound argument. However you could be wrong or you could have worshipped the wrong god too ;D
Possibly.But I will be no worse off than non believers
Just remember the Rowan Atkinson sketch about hell. "Christians? Ah yes, well I am afraid the Jews were right".
You're doomed.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 09:35:45 PM
Possibly.But I will be no worse off than non believers
Seeing as how you describe your faith continually seems to be hedging your bets and you're a betting man - what odds would you give ;D
What is wrong with wanting to secure a contented eternity? It is a promise and reward I believe in,and am simply pursuing.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:19:50 PM
Just picture the scenario,lying on your death bed,you draw your last breath,and discover that you were wrong in your lack of belief.Dire consequences😱😥😥
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 09:35:45 PM
Possibly.But I will be no worse off than non believers
Deadly argument there Tony... a real head wrecker :o
Imagine the opposite was true? Imagine there was a set up temptation to follow the doctrine of the faith in life but the test is to see who can work out that its a falsity... and only the people that get to that point get to heaven? The believers are now fooked.... you just can't win can you :)
I see absolutely no logic in that one,I'm afraid.There is either a God or there isn't.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 09:15:53 AM
I see absolutely no logic in that one,I'm afraid.There is either a God or there isn't.
There isn't.
Could this not be integrated into the Fearon polluting the board/pontificating about religion thread?
Quote from: punt kick on September 20, 2017, 09:39:23 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 09:15:53 AM
I see absolutely no logic in that one,I'm afraid.There is either a God or there isn't.
There isn't.
Lost on our T
We'll all find out sooner or later?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 07:28:53 AM
What is wrong with wanting to secure a contented eternity? It is a promise and reward I believe in,and am simply pursuing.
Contented eternity? You do know what eternity means? F*#k that. This lifetime is enough for me. Contented eternity sounds like hell to me.
Are there big screens in heaven, so we can get the Sky hurling & football? We need something to fill the time.
Tone will be creaming himself tonight with the news that Harry Windsor is set to marry a catholic, a divorced one right enough though.
I presume the Sectarian Feudal kingdom will cut him off from all his privileges?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 27, 2017, 11:29:47 PM
I presume the Sectarian Feudal kingdom will cut him off from all his privileges?
Nope,
. she's to be baptised into the Anglican faith before the big day.
Can't have a taig about the place, Arlene will be doubly pleased
Quote from: johnneycool on November 28, 2017, 10:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 27, 2017, 11:29:47 PM
I presume the Sectarian Feudal kingdom will cut him off from all his privileges?
Nope,
. she's to be baptised into the Anglican faith before the big day.
Can't have a taig about the place, Arlene will be doubly pleased
If she is being baptised at this stage it would indicate that she has not been baptised previously.
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 29, 2017, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 28, 2017, 10:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 27, 2017, 11:29:47 PM
I presume the Sectarian Feudal kingdom will cut him off from all his privileges?
Nope,
. she's to be baptised into the Anglican faith before the big day.
Can't have a taig about the place, Arlene will be doubly pleased
If she is being baptised at this stage it would indicate that she has not been baptised previously.
Apparently she's not a Catholic, she just went to a private Catholic school. She's being baptised into the Church of England. She's also becoming a British citizen. More bloody immigrants!
Quote from: AQMP on November 29, 2017, 04:22:42 PM
Apparently she's not a Catholic, she just went to a private Catholic school. She's being baptised into the Church of England. She's also becoming a British citizen. More bloody immigrants!
How does she become a British citizen?
Quote from: johnneycool on November 28, 2017, 10:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 27, 2017, 11:29:47 PM
I presume the Sectarian Feudal kingdom will cut him off from all his privileges?
Nope,
. she's to be baptised into the Anglican faith before the big day.
Can't have a taig about the place, Arlene will be doubly pleased
Doubly pleased indeed ... one less taig when she takes the soup :)