All Ireland Football Final 2017 Mayo V Dublin

Started by never kickt a ball, August 27, 2017, 07:24:59 AM

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blewuporstuffed

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 19, 2017, 04:46:31 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 19, 2017, 04:36:24 PM
Quote from: blast05 on September 19, 2017, 12:30:37 PM
Re the penalty incident ..... here is the rule

"If, during the advantage period, another foul is committed against the team which received the original advantage, then a free kick/puck will be awarded for the "second" foul if it is considered more advantageous than the original"

No matter what way you slice and dice the incident, it should have been a penalty.



blast, did you get that from the actual rule book or was it just some randomer on the internet? What's the exact section?

I'm not saying you are not right, because I don't know for sure, but I definitely seen rules quoted before which did not agree with that. I have countless times seen advantages end because the player with the ball was fouled again and the ref always brings it back to the first foul.

Without doubt, the rule should be as you have laid it out. But just not sure it is.

Foul Subsequent to Advantage Award


If, during the advantage period, a foul is committed by a player of the team which was originally fouled then the advantage
is cancelled and a free kick/puck awarded for the "second" foul.
If, during the advantage period, another foul is committed against the team which received the original advantage, then a
free kick/puck will be awarded for the "second" foul if it is considered more advantageous than the original.

Can be found on Page 29 of handbook - link below

http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/51/90/13034RefHandbook_English.pdf


this would need to be pointed out to a lot of referees, because it is very very rarely applied like that
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

From the Bunker

Yes I was amazed myself when I found out that was the rule! There are a lot of (the so called top) referees out there who never apply that rule!

Hound

One of the co-commentators (Paul Early I think) regularly says something along the lines of - the ref allowed him take 8 steps because he was playing advantage. That's clearly wrong based on the first part. Although it would be very harsh to award the free the other way where a lad is getting harried/fouled so he can't bounce the ball.

We had an incident in a club game only a few weeks ago, where our midfielder was knocked to the ground in a clear foul. The ref signaled advantage as the ball ended up beside our lad. He grabbed the ball as he was getting up, and the ref then whistled a free the other way for a pick up! Place went into uproar. Turns out that ref was probably right on a strict reading, though I don't think it makes a whole lot of logical sense.

blast05

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 19, 2017, 04:53:35 PM
Yes I was amazed myself when I found out that was the rule!

Me too ..... but according to John Fogarty (Examiner gaelic games correspondent), the rule was applied in the minor match.
In any case, i don't recall the ref putting up his hand for advantage for the initial foul which makes the failure to give the penalty even more bizarre.

The rule causes immense frustration in club football. My (adopted) club were relegated. In the relegation playoff, we were trailing by 2 points with a few minutes of normal time to go and the opposition were playing all 15 players within 40m of their goal. A blatant foul on one of our lads on 20m attacking line but ref puts hand up for advantage.... our player manages to re-cycle the ball after the foul and we keep going all way back to 45 to get control of possession again. 5 secs elapse as we end up turning over the ball on 45m line. One of our lads fouls opponent out of pure frustration. Ref awards the free for that and then goes to book the for the first foul on the 20m line.

If the rule keeps is left as is, then players are going to have to be coached into fouling the ball (throw it) when they know they have advantage so that they get the free they want .... same as a scrum half or outhalf in rugby deliberately knocking on when he wants the penalty instead of advantage.

magpie seanie

The advice in the referees handbook is at odds with the rulebook. This is the rule in the Official Guide Part 2 (Playing Rules). It is 4.36 and 5.39 in the playing rules of football (in twice as there are separate sections for technical and aggressive fouls).

QuoteWhen a foul is committed, the referee may
allow the play to continue if he considers it to
be to the advantage of the offended team. He
shall signal that advantage by raising an arm
upright and shall allow the advantage to run by
maintaining his arm in the upright position for up
to five seconds after the foul or for less time if it
becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. If
he deems no advantage to have accrued, he may
subsequently award a free for the foul from where
it occurred, except as provided under Exceptions
(v) and (vi) of Rule 2.2. He shall apply any relevant
disciplinary action.

The exceptions quoted are where the referee restarts play with a throw in.

The rulebook takes precedence in all cases.

It's astounding but not surprising that refs are being instructed to apply rules that are not there.

Rossfan

That's some feckin anomaly alright.
Time to add that bit into the T O.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Captain Obvious

Quote from: magpie seanie on September 19, 2017, 11:40:41 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 19, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 19, 2017, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2017, 11:14:50 AM
I've never seen somebody throw an object at a lad taking a free before. That's a new one on me.

How can a ref miss it though? If the free was missed it should have been brought forward 13 metres and retaken. It was a daft thing to do as well as very unsporting. Although McQuillan was so bad it seems he missed this as well.
You thought McQuillan had a poor game? Examples?

I don't believe he impacted the result either way but he had a terrible game. Missed the O'Gara incident. Went to Hawkeye twice for two blatantly obvious points because the crowd roared at him. I think both teams had times they should have got frees and times they got soft ones. To me he looked totally lost but considering the pressure he was under with the build up I suppose it's understandable.

He also missed the C O Connor off the ball incident in the 1st half from which he scored a point from. A O Shea should have received a black card early in the 2nd half. On the hawkeye C O Connor was doing most of the roaring in McQuillans ear, he also roared at the ref not to send off Vaughan but on that occasion it didn't change his mind.

SouthDublinBro

Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2017, 10:47:09 AM
Or imagine if a Dub did that to Cillian O'Connor? Facebook would have to close down!

No Dublin player would bother resorting to that. Just let COC punt it wide like he always does when it truly matters.

Mayo4Sam

Yellowbus that was one of the classiest posts I've ever seen on here and bang on the money. Rochford and the players put everything into it, you'd expect emotion. Anyone who thinks that losing a final compares to any other match has clearly never played sport, the difference is exponential.

Hard to know what to make of Sunday, not sure I have the stomach to watch it back either.

On Keegan, he did what he had to do, if it had worked I'd have been delighted and there'd have been uproar but can anyone honestly say they wouldn't like their team to do the same? So when I see the Dublin  lads pulling us down all over the field I can't complain either. Both are examples of cheating and both are what needs to be done to win games some times. Every team does it.

To the Sligo lads, shocked to hear about Sean Davey's wife, passed away while watching the match abroad, RIP. Puts things in perspective
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

SouthDublinBro

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 19, 2017, 07:05:13 PM
On Keegan, he did what he had to do, if it had worked I'd have been delighted and there'd have been uproar but can anyone honestly say they wouldn't like their team to do the same? So when I see the Dublin  lads pulling us down all over the field I can't complain either. Both are examples of cheating and both are what needs to be done to win games some times. Every team does it.

Fair play to you for being honest. Honestly my estimation of Keegan went up for his doing that. Classless sure, but he showed a desire to win by doing that far more than any other Mayo man on the pitch did.

tonto1888

Quote from: vallankumous on September 19, 2017, 12:01:54 PM
It was a yellow card. it was upgraded to red because it was an All Ireland final with the world watching the referee.
if it had have been any other game it would have been yellow.

If the ref give the initial foul advantage then the game was in play. The next foul happened inside the area. It wasn't a case of bringing it back as the advantage didn't materialize, it was another foul. Penalty.

It was a clear red card. He ran on and clotheslined small as if he Vaughan was the ultimate warrior

JoG2

Dublin and Mayo served up an absolute classic. The work and dedication to the game that those players have put in is a credit to them. I was gutted for Mayo but buzzing the whole way home having witnessed two sets of warriors going hell for leather to win. Reading this thread would depress the hole off ye though

Cunny Funt

Quote from: JoG2 on September 19, 2017, 07:27:17 PM
Dublin and Mayo served up an absolute classic. The work and dedication to the game that those players have put in is a credit to them. I was gutted for Mayo but buzzing the whole way home having witnessed two sets of warriors going hell for leather to win. Reading this thread would depress the hole off ye though
I have noticed reading your posts on here for a Derry man you have a lot love for Mayo. Out of interest what is your connection with Mayo some family there?

Tubberman

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on September 19, 2017, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2017, 10:47:09 AM
Or imagine if a Dub did that to Cillian O'Connor? Facebook would have to close down!

No Dublin player would bother resorting to that. Just let COC punt it wide like he always does when it truly matters.

Yeah like that equalising score last year you classless p***k
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

Muck Savage

Great game to watch and nerve wrecking to the end. Was very disappointed that Mayo didn't pull it off but the more efficient team in front of goal and smartest street wise won the game. With 7-8 mins left Mayo were 1 or 2 pts up and it really felt to me that they had a fear of winning or maybe not knowing how to win.
In the first half Mayo missed some very bad scores, Keegan dropped one short, Moran took a shot over his shoulder he shouldn't have, O'Connor shot across the goal etc. Even in the 2nd hall O'Shea took a pot shot from under the Cusack stand that he should have held onto. Dublin didn't do that, way more efficient and better at thinking under pressure. Once they went ahead in injury time they locked up all the Mayo backs with pulling, dragging etc. just smarted thinking when it was needed.
Mayo should have got a penalty, both reds were deserved but overall the Ref did well considering he is one man covering 30 players with so much stuff going on.
Keegan was dead right to do what he did at the end, everyone was looking for the fine margins be it verbal, physical or in this case GPS. 1 or 2 inches to the left and COC's free would have gone over and we could have been looking at a different result, fine margins. Its tough on Mayo, very tough on the players and management but althea can do is pick it up again.

This is a great Dublin team, regardless of population etc. its a talented, hungry bunch of lads led by a very focused management team. Congrats to them