Search for New Mayo Manager

[Syferus]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.

Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00

Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.

After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.

On paper both had good resumes, though, Moy. Holmes won a lot of credit being the man to finally turn the big town fancy dans into a proper outfit again and with his underage success Connelly was always likely to get a shot at the top job at some stage of his career.

I think a lot of this animosity from players boiled down to them being seen as CB men and Horan being the polar opposite - sure most of the instigators were managed to an U21 AI by H&C. The two men were in a near unwinnable situation no matter how good they were IMHO.

The game was just rigged against them from the get go. I think both the Mayo CB and the panel have to accept their share of the blame for that. The problem is I've seen too few willing to rattle the players' cages this week when it's pretty obviously they didn't exactly behave with much grace themselves.

[Halfquarter]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Increadible what O'Mahony was allowed to get away with, total waste of 4 years and not a word of criticism uttered about him.

[Il Bomber Destro]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.

Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00

Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.

After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.

No better, no worse?

Why change?

Why did the players want change?

There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.

That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.

Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?

[In hiding]

Bomber, go on and give it a rest would you. You think the players were wrong, big deal. Do you really care, or do you just not like mayo

[Il Bomber Destro]

Bomber, go on and give it a rest would you. You think the players were wrong, big deal. Do you really care, or do you just not like mayo

I find it extremely strange how the Mayo posters are willing to dismiss one side of the story completely out of hand when all the available information would suggest the players were completely out of order in this regard.

The motives were clearly not footballing ones and with that in mind, from a pragmatist like myself, it was completely unacceptable in what they did. You have guys on here moaning about nepotism and shenanigans from the county board, yet not a peep out of them when it comes to two of their senior players lobbying and questioning their management team on behalf of including club mates and family members?

If it's one thing I don't like it's double standards.

[moysider]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.

Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00

Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.

After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.

No better, no worse?

Why change?

Why did the players want change?

There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.

That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.

Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?

Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.

I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point  is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.

[Cunny Funt]

Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014

In your time supporting Mayo perhaps? 2009 Mayo won Connacht and reached a league final the following year. Main reason why Mayo weren't more successful was because they were in transition then and politics and sport doesn't mix he should be remembered for giving plenty of current seniors their debuts.

Darkest ever senior era for Mayo was 1970 to 1980 when no provincial title was won.

[Il Bomber Destro]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.

Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00

Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.

After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.

No better, no worse?

Why change?

Why did the players want change?

There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.

That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.

Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?

Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.

I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point  is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.

But that simply does not stack up with the results and performances of Mayo in 2015 in contrast to those in 2011-2014 and 2016.

Again, from a pragmatic, objective outlook there is nothing there to suggest that they got rid of Holmes and Connelly for footballing reasons. Holmes and Connelly, who as we all know were driven out by the players have came out a year later and have quite clearly made it clear that they believe a group of players had grievances with them over issues such as not letting them partake in tv shows, selection decisions involving themselves, their club mates and their family members, criticism of their bottle which they did not take well etc. That's one side of the story and it definitely points as non footballing reasons, seemingly dismissed out of hand by most Mayo men on here, on the basis of nothing other than subjective, rosy tinted views of their squad's integrity seemingly.

On the other side of the story is the Mayo squad "we want you gone, not up for negotiation, we're not giving you the reasons".

There's only one side of the story that has any weight of integrity to it that we have hear and it certainly isn't the version put forward from the Mayo players.

[Mayo Border]

Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014

In your time supporting Mayo perhaps? 2009 Mayo won Connacht and reached a league final the following year. Main reason why Mayo weren't more successful was because they were in transition then and politics and sport doesn't mix he should be remembered for giving plenty of current seniors their debuts.

Darkest ever senior era for Mayo was 1970 to 1980 when no provincial title was won.

I supported Mayo when Johnny Carey won Mayo's first all star. I was in Cusack Park Ennis in 1973 when Mayo u21 outplayed Kerry but were beaten in the end by 2 John Egan goals. The team won the following year but the tragedy of Ted Webb's passing set the group back. A strong Galway team was around early 70's and a stronger Roscommon team towards the end of the decade cant be discounted. O'Mahony had no semblance of a plan for the way forward from 2007 on. His teams always appeared disorganised. His big early move was to drop Ciaran Macdonnell. And I was in Sligo town in June 2010. Thank heavens we didn't end up with Tommy Lyons or Tommy Carr or Paudi or Banty. I believe Rochford will be successful with this team. Mainly because the events of 2014 / 15 were not of his doing. I wish them all the best

[moysider]

Spot on Moy. Think back to the ousting of Moran & Morrison after only 1 season and reaching AI Final in 2006. The upcoming general election in 2007 saw jeeps in Mayo colours canvassing for one of the candidates. He managed Mayo for a 4 year period which was possibly our darkest ever County Board decisions have left a lot to be desired. Same people involved in 2014

In your time supporting Mayo perhaps? 2009 Mayo won Connacht and reached a league final the following year. Main reason why Mayo weren't more successful was because they were in transition then and politics and sport doesn't mix he should be remembered for giving plenty of current seniors their debuts.

Darkest ever senior era for Mayo was 1970 to 1980 when no provincial title was won.

Nah. Your right about the 70s but Mayo won a National title in 70 and were runners up in 71, 72 and 78. The 70's were still shite though  - not because of players though. When other counties had progressive managers like Heffernan, O' Dwyer and McGee, Mayo had ........... a committee?
Johnno getting to a league final with a team that has been around division 1 for years is hardly success. A team that is Div 1 is hardly in transition. As regards giving players debuts. My granny down in League cemetery would have seen they could play. Mind you Boyle was nearly ruined. I believe a lot of our ills have come from 06-10. Horan started from zero and so did Maughan when he took over. Same Liam O Neill. Johnno took a decent team and spent 4 years knocking them back.

[Cunny Funt]

Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.

[moysider]

"I don't agree with player power in terms of ousting managers. That is where a county board has to look at themselves and make sure they get the right people in. You've seen it in Mayo and you've seen it in Cork where they haven't got the right people in. I'm sure the lads had their reasons for coming out and speaking but this is damaging.''

Tomás O Sé  on Homellygate.

Like me Tomás clearly lays the mess at the door of the county board. With H&C they clearly failed to get the right people in and everything else is like the aftershocks after a megathrust earthquake. This is not revisionism on my part. At the time I called it a cosy, cobbled together management that stank of sharp practice and nepotism. It did not sit well with some at the time.
While I do have sympathy for their undoubted distress of being rejected they surely went into the gig with their eyes open and knowing their position was compromised from the start. How could they not know - unless they have egos that surpass those of the players they complain about.
When it became clear that the players had no confidence in them H&C should have gone quickly and quietly. The board executive should have pointed them in that direction instead of trying to browbeat the players into some kind of negotiation. The vote of no confidence was the end. There is no way back when management loses the dressing room. Since then we've seen Anthony Cunningham trying to hold on as well. Years ago we had Gerald McCarty trying to beat back the waves.
If things had been handled sensibly there would have been no player letter. And if anything the players were sticking it to the CB as much as to H&C. Their demands for input in new management appointment clearly indicates they did not trust the board to 'get the right people in' - and for good reason. The CB could easily have gone back to John Maughan if it was up to them. Mayo CBs have a terrible record of getting the right people in. They've got it wrong most of the time in my time.

Or maybe the Mayo and Cork squads were a bunch of precious egotists that put way too much value in their influence.

Or maybe not. Maybe some managers are precious egoists that put way too much value in their influence. People say Mayo did no better in 2016 but they did no worse without H&C either. Considering the dysfunctional environment they've been operating in last 2 years, - created by the CB - it is surprising that Mayo did as well last 2 years as they did.
A bit rich H&C sticking the knife in about these Mayo players not winning an AI when they were important players in a team that butchered 2 finals themselves. 3 if you count a replay.
The CB stumbled on James Horan as manager - actually they wanted Tommy Lyons until they realised that there was no appetite for another old stock manager in the county.

Lyons favourite to get Mayo job
Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 01:00

Tommy Lyons has been installed as the firm favourite to become the new Mayo football manager after John Maughan withdrew from the race to succeed John O'Mahony.
Irish Times.

After Horan quit they made a monumental f**k-up of replacing him. Basically going back to the politburo.

No better, no worse?

Why change?

Why did the players want change?

There doesn't seem to have been any real tangible positive or negative impact of it on the results side. We all know the change was driven by the players, so it clearly was not for footballing reasons and that in itself speaks volumes of the preciousness of a certain group of Mayo players who were exercising personal agendas because of the slights they felt or their egos not being massaged.

That is the bottom line and the fact that no Mayo poster on here has yet been willing to accept that the players were exercising personal grievances rather than footballing ones is strange.

Do you put any credence into the rumour that one managerial candidate was rejected by the players due to them having an issue with a guy he wanted to bring into the backroom team? If true what would that tell you about the players?

Hold on. It was the county board that came out with the 'rumour' that some players did not want McHale. I suspect, in the light of what happened after, that the board was justifying their position of not seriously considering the McStay option and blackening his package. McStay was unwise to comment on that at the time but he probably did not fully realise the lengths that the board would go to get their way.

I don t accept that the player's had personal grievances against H&C. The botched appointment would not have made any grievance personal. As far as I know Mayo players were not lobbying for anybody in particular to replace Horan. They're wasn t exactly a queue of outstanding candidates. H&C got their shot. The players just didn't think they were up to it and I suspect they had good reasons for thinking that way - as usual we'll have to wait for a few more years for the reasons. The fact that they didn't win AI next year is irrelevant. Changing managers doesn't mean that you will win an AI. In case you haven't noticed a lot of teams want to win the AI and usually there is 3 or 4 teams that can do so in any given year. Losing a replay by a point  is hardly disgraceful. They were 100% correct not to go along with a management they did not believe in.

But that simply does not stack up with the results and performances of Mayo in 2015 in contrast to those in 2011-2014 and 2016.

Again, from a pragmatic, objective outlook there is nothing there to suggest that they got rid of Holmes and Connelly for footballing reasons. Holmes and Connelly, who as we all know were driven out by the players have came out a year later and have quite clearly made it clear that they believe a group of players had grievances with them over issues such as not letting them partake in tv shows, selection decisions involving themselves, their club mates and their family members, criticism of their bottle which they did not take well etc. That's one side of the story and it definitely points as non footballing reasons, seemingly dismissed out of hand by most Mayo men on here, on the basis of nothing other than subjective, rosy tinted views of their squad's integrity seemingly.

On the other side of the story is the Mayo squad "we want you gone, not up for negotiation, we're not giving you the reasons".

There's only one side of the story that has any weight of integrity to it that we have hear and it certainly isn't the version put forward from the Mayo players.

How much do you expect the performances to vary from year to year if the same players are involved. It shows that they play to a high level consistently.

As regards the grievances in Brehony article. Seems to me that they were what H&C believed were the grievances that instigated the push. The players haven t said what their grievances and maybe that spares H&C a bit.  I don't believe for a minute that those petty anecdotes were the real reasons for the player unrest. We ll find out the real reasons eventually, we always do. By then of course it will be old news. But I suspect that there were footballing reasons at the root of it.

Anyway why does this bother you so much? Or, others. Surely it is in other counties interest that Mayo are messing about with one of their better teams!

There has hardly been a queue for H&C to manage other teams since Holmes' first mediocre stint as Mayo manager 13 years ago or after they won an AI U21 in 2006. That puzzles me. Neutrals seem to think they were Clough and Taylor as regards Mayo but ...........

[moysider]

Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.

Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players.  Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football?  It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.

Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.

Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.

[Cunny Funt]

Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.

Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players.  Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football?  It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.

Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.

Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.

2010 was a bad summer after a decent spring where Mayo reached the league final beating Cork,Kerry,Tyrone along the way.

Under the guidance of H&C Mayo won 4 U21 Connacht titles in a row and one All Ireland between 2006 to 2009. Then the James Horan success with Mayo seniors 2011 to 2014 was built around that group of players that played on those 2006 to 2009 U21s teams.

Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle; Seamus O'Shea,Barry Moran,Tom Parsons,Donal Vaughan,Jason Doherty,Robert Hennelly,Kevin Keane,Lee Keegan, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O'Shea i might be missing a few more.

Like i said Horan hardly started from zero but he got the rub of the green in his first championship game that could have been a far worse result than losing to Longford or Sligo!

[Syferus]

Maughan maybe but Horan hardly started from zero when Mayo had won a Connacht senior title 2 years before he arrived were division 1 team and had Ger Cafferkey,Donal Vaughan, Tom Cunniffe, Kevin McLoughlin;Aidan O Shea,Seamus O'Shea etc that had already sampled championship football.

Ah, come on!! Zero is losing to Sligo and Longford in the one Summer. That is no slight on those counties either, but doubt if either were playing in top2 divisions at the time. And it was championship ffs. Sligo had us beaten 20 mins. out and Longford were comfortable enough too towards the end. It was a mess. Johnno practically did a Floyd Patterson and left the building like a shot. Don't think he used a fake beard though!
Horan's team knocked out AI champions next Summer. That's all anybody needs to know. It was never about players.  Johnno got a Div. one squad as well and players that reached AI finals. Why wouldn t those lads you named not have sampled championship football?  It wasn't great experience though - like compared to young Dublin and Kerry lads that debut in teams on their upper.

Johnno might not have been great but he was not blind. McLoughlin should have been in earlier as well as corner back a year earlier btw.

Anyway, it is interesting that neutrals build up our managers but give our players a kicking.

Ye lost to the best Sligo team in 40 years, ye beat the worst AI champions in about the same period the next year. Longford can beat just about any team in the country in the Qualifiers. Matter of perspective, Moy.

Horan had more advantages than most managers and the myth making comparing a down year to the following year is a common theme when Mayo supporters tell his story. His first championship performance was a draw with fecking London, only settled after extra time and heroics by the Roscommon man. If that was under Johnno's reign you'd have included it in your 'darkest days' montage! In the end Horan ended up little different than Johnno or Maughan or Moran, there's only one metric that counts in Mayo and you know that as well as anyone.

It's his attitude towards the CB, rightly or wrongly, that was the catalyst to the mess the last three winters. Nothing happens in isolation and the story of H&C's fall has its roots in Horan's reign for the players, and farther back still at a CB level. Fall guys.