Maddie McCann

[Rufus T Firefly]

5ive Times

Venter the parents have to be the number 1 suspects, in my opinion their story just doesnt add up....... But for me the main thing is their attitude. The father especially looks suspicious, his body language is all wrong and the mother appears to cower beside him. They havent shown any emotion, not once has their been an emotional appeal for the return of their daughter.

The Sunday Times reported today, in an in depth analysis

They (the McCanns) were also advised not to betray any emotion when making public appeals for help, which accounts for the even face which Gerry has presented to the media. Jim Gamble, chief executive of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, told them that if the abductor was watching he or she might take pleasure in the McCanns' distress

5ive Times wrote,

The entire media campaign seems to revolve around the parents and the fact that they are upstanding middle class, middle England types, but the media dont seem to be asking the right questions. Even if the child was abducted, they are to blame. They left her and her siblings alone while they went out for the evening.

I'm at a loss to explain the relevance of this - if the whole issue remains in the public eye, then that is surely a good thing, as a four year old child is still missing. What the press asks the McCanns is largely irrelevant, as they can't answer questions related to the investigation.

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

[pintsofguinness]

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  )

Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

[Rufus T Firefly]

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  )

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts? 

[Uladh]

I agree wholeheartedly with you rufus. what evidence is there at all to be convicting them from afar?

what happened to innocent til proven guilty?

whoever suggested that the father looked like a bully and looks as though he beats his wife should be shot with a ball of their own dung.

[pintsofguinness]

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying "they've taken her they've taken her".  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 

[Lecale2]

Food for thought there POG. I have an open mind on the issue but you present some interesting evidence.

[Cloc Mor]

I initially believed Maddie had been upducted.  The more I see, and the inaccuracies in the stories produced, does lead me to believe that the wee girl is dead and the parent(s) responsible.  Was there something about intercepted emails which also implicated the Mc Canns?

[Balboa]

The bit that caught my eye was talk of wife swapping between the Mc Canns and their friends.....

[ExiledGael]

This is just a horrible story from day one.
Think the haphazard and very confusing Portuguese legal system has led to a lot of the rumours/facts getting out of hand. The police have been far from transparent and the media here and the rest of us are feeding on rumour and contradictory stories to reach our conclusions.
Never blamed the McCanns for their publicity hunt, obviously wanting to keep her image in the spotlight any way possible.
Just can't believe they would have went through all that if they were covering up something.
I realise all the little things that don't quite add up, but I personally blame the other aspects for that, ie the portuguese police, their reluctance (legally) to say nothing on the matter, ever, and simply the distance. It's all happening so far away and we're living off the scraps to try to understand it all.
Think because of the nature of the case it's very unfair to draw conclusions, though it obviously will happen. Was disgusted to hear the mother being booed in the street on TV.

[Rufus T Firefly]

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

None of us have all the evidence. 

None of us have any evidence!

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

people can and will make judgements. 

And without evidence, that is very wrong!

[Rufus T Firefly]

The police have been far from transparent and the media here and the rest of us are feeding on rumour and contradictory stories to reach our conclusions.

100% correct!

[pintsofguinness]

Rufus we do have some evidence, it may be circumstantial and it most certainly isn't all of the evidence but you can say we shouldn't make judgements with what we got until you're blue in the face, fact is, people will, it's human nature.  I bet you have your own views on what happened, you can't just say, "I haven't all the evidence, I can't make a judgement, and shut your mind.

[The Real Laoislad]

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying "they've taken her they've taken her".  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 

Great post POG you put into words exactly what i have been thinking..

[ONeill]

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying "they've taken her they've taken her".  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 

If ever there was an example of the power of the media to brainwash people, this is it. POG has regurgitated random stories reproduced in the Sun/Mirror/Star by journalists with little or no facts. 'Dish Monkeys' they call this type of analyst - someone who deals in the 'it was reported' information, without having the barest fact.

Absolute bullshit, without any weight whatsoever.

[The Real Laoislad]

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  )

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts? 

And how can someone say they are not guilty with all the facts that is against them..
I for one said there was something suspicious right from the start and for all the arguments that are in favour of the parents there is just as many that can be used against them.
But i don't think anyone here has already convicted the parents and said yes it was defiantly them,Peoples opinions are changing every day and will continue to do so until this is finally resolved
Yes there is a lot of posters who think they are guilty but i can't remember anyone saying that they 100% believe this to be true because no one could know that as yet.
I think there is alot more twists in this yet,but from my research and from everything i have read and saw on TV i have come to the opinion they are involved someway,But its only a opinion and everyone is going to have different views and opinions on this