Maddie McCann

Started by ExiledGael, May 14, 2007, 08:12:54 PM

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Hurler on the Bitch

I think that this whole thing is going to unravel very soon and it will be a hideous story.. whatever comes to pass.

Balboa

Quote from: full back on August 16, 2007, 01:48:50 PM
I see in one of the papers today, it says that the cops in Portugal know that Maddie was killed in the apartment & who is responsible. The say they will swoop on the new suspects within days.
Maybe bullsh1t, to show they are still doing something about the case.

It also is questioning if the parents gave the twins sedatives to make them sleep, because they didnt wake up when she was taken or when all the commotion was going on after it.

Holy fcuk, I know the parents should never have left the children alone, but to question if they gave the children sedatives so they wouldnt waken is shocking.

Maybe they have some evidence to support this theory, its a bold statement to make if they cant substantiate it.

Square Ball

Is the blood Maddies?
Hospitals are not equipped to treat stupid

passedit

No
#183
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2267836.ece

DNA test boosts parents' hope that Madeleine is still alive

Paolo Reis in Praia da Luz and David Brown

Traces of blood discovered in the bedroom where Madeleine McCann was sleeping on the night that she disappeared do not come from the missing girl, The Times has learnt.

The conclusion that the blood came from a man follows two weeks of reports that the traces proved that Madeleine had been killed in the Algarve holiday apartment.

The finding will give fresh hope to Kate and Gerry McCann, who have said that they continue to believe that their daughter will still be found alive 105 days after she was taken from her bed.

The minute spots of blood, which were discovered on a bedroom wall by British sniffer dogs, had been sent for testing at the headquarters of the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham.
The power of mums

Mumsnet's role in the Madeleine McCann advert affair has shown the muscle of parenting forums
Background

    * Lay off the McCanns

    * Leaving children alone

    * Madeleine: a very modern melodrama

Multimedia

    * Pictures: searching for Madeleine

    * Video: McCann family start holiday

Related Links

    * Madeleine detectives fear the worst

    * Lies, guesses and speculation

The four pages of technical results conclude that the blood did not come from Madeleine.

The analysis shows that the blood probably comes from a white man from the "northeast European subgroup". However, this conclusion is only 72 per cent accurate owing to the poor condition of the sample because of its age and also that the bedroom wall had been cleaned with a detergent. The Forensic Science Service is carrying out further tests on the samples.

Detectives had already suspected that the blood came from a man who had injured himself while staying at the two-bedroom apartment after Madeleine disappeared. This explains why the blood was not discovered when Portuguese police examined the apartment in the first weeks of the investigation. The ground-floor apartment in the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz was cordoned off by police for five weeks after Madeleine's disappearance before being handed back to its British owners.

Mrs McCann contemplated for the first time yesterday returning to Britain to live without Madeleine: "We know we will be going back and I guess one day we will wake up and it will be right. We never thought that we would go before she came back. Now we just don't know. We have the twins to consider. "I can't imagine how we came out as a family of five and going back as a four."

The Times reported yesterday that Portuguese police have said for the first time that the focus of the inquiry is that Madeleine is now dead. Inspector Olegário Sousa, of the PolÍcia Judiciária (PJ), said: "The possibility of Madeleine's death is the one that we are paying more attention. However, none of the other possibilities is closed."

Mr Sousa confirmed that one of the dogs had found a scent indicating that a corpse had been in the apartment.


Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39, from Rothley, Leicestershire, are likely to face fresh questioning by police next week. The seven British adults with them at the Ocean Club are also likely to be requestioned.

The couple and their friends were dining at a tapas restaurant at the resort complex on May 3 while Madeleine was asleep in the apartment with her two-year-old twin brothers and sister, Sean and Amelie.

Mr Sousa said this week that the McCanns are regarded as witnesses and are not considered suspects. But he refused to rule out the possibility that their friends may have been involved.

Portuguese police are believed to have found some new evidence in the case about two weeks ago which led to officers saying that they now considered it possible that Madeleine, who disappeared shortly before her fourth birthday, was now dead. However, reports that they are hunting a mystery British man who had stayed in Praia da Luz at the same time as the McCanns have been dismissed. James Gorrod, 34, a solicitor from Exeter, said that detectives had cleared him and his wife of any link to her disappearance. They had raised suspicion because they were a couple who were on holiday with the McCanns and had hired a car with a child seat. However, it transpired that they were travelling with their two-year-old son.

Detectives in Portugal are expected to hold the first press conference on the investigation tomorrow for more than a month. A judge is expected to decide this month that the only official suspect in the case, Robert Murat, 33, should be cleared.
Don't Panic

passedit

Read the above article on the train this am. How can a dog pick up such a scent? Apparently the corpse would need to have been there for at least two hours. Not prejudging anything, just wondering.

ps Drici, are you psychic? tell us whodunnit.
Don't Panic

Square Ball

maybe the dog is trained to react only to the scent of a corpse and barked?
Hospitals are not equipped to treat stupid

passedit

http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm

http://www.csst.org/residual_scent.html



    RESIDUAL SCENT IN BUILDINGS

    One of the questions we are commonly asked as forensic canine handlers is "How long will scent last in any given situation?" This is a very complicated question, but we want to begin to unravel the secrets. We know some of the elements that will affect residual scent are heat/sun, wind, humidity and rain.

    Our first project was conducted in a closed, unused building. Items were placed in different rooms for 5 hours and then removed.

    What is Residual Scent?
    Residual is defined by Webster's dictionary as - leaving a residue remaining effective for some time.
    Within this paper we are using the term in conjunction with decomposing human scent. Residual scent searches are those conducted when no physical form is present. Residual scent is what is left when the decomposing item has been removed. It is something we cannot see and humans cannot necessarily smell.

    Introduction
    This project began by accident, so was not preplanned as a residual scent research paper. We make no claims to having ruled out all variables, but are using this project to learn what the variables are and how to more effectively set up our next residual scent project.

    Our goal in this paper is to look at residual scent in a closed, unused building and see if we can find out how long a trained cadaver / forensic evidence dog can locate the original scent location. All the dogs used in this project ranged from those with some basic training in the finding of cadaver scent to specialized trained dogs in forensic evidence / body recovery. We see this as just the beginning of ongoing residual scent undertakings.

    On November 9, 1996 several items were placed in different areas of a building. The building used was built in the 1930's and was used as classrooms up until 1995. It is part of a large developmental hospital that was built before 1900. Most of the furniture is now gone. There is still human clothing around, chairs, desks, shelves with things on them, wardrobes, curtains, and boxes of books and general effects. The facility has been closed down and most of the buildings are scheduled to be demolished.

        Room #11 was used as an activity or day room. It is a large open room. The scent sources were blood (3cc) left to dry on the floor and door in the room.
        Room #16 is a closet/storage room off room #11. The scent source was blood (approx. 1cc) on paper on the floor.
        Room #5 is a large storage room with closets and shelves. The scent source was a soil sample with dried fluids from a gunshot to the head suicide enclosed in a 50ml vented container. The upper window has been open the whole time in this room.
        Room #18 is a large living room. Scent sources were; hair mixed with cadaver scent in the fireplace flue, and a very small amount of blood inside a trash can.
        Room #9 is a tiled utility area across the hall from a kitchen area. Scent source was hair and blood in a 50ml container placed in the foot of standing ironing board, so the sample was 5 feet off the ground.

    Since the original set up date on November 9, 1996, we have returned to the building 4 times: January 8, 1997, April 2, 1997, July 23, 1997 and December 7, 1997. On our visit in April we found that they had removed most of the original furniture and some boxes of trash, so the building had little left in it. Two of the objects (the ironing board and a box of trash), that had held scent sources were now missing.

    Results
    Each dog participating in this project was able to find most or all of the locations where the decomposing scent articles had been. We saw dogs, which varied, from full alert and pinpointing to general interest in the room or area.

    What we have found so far is; residual scent will last 1 year in a building with minimum environmental influence, or human disturbance. Even after the objects where the scent source had been were removed, the dogs were able to locate the rooms, general area, or pinpoint where it had been.

    Each time we have worked the problem we have included teams that had not worked the area before. We now have had 16 teams work the residual scent problem. The dogs have ranged from veteran cadaver trained certified teams to 1 year old puppies (who have been training from 8 weeks of age on cadaver and residual scent).

    Observations
    We noticed that there was a big difference between teams that do mainly live person searching and teams that specialize in forensic evidence / body recovery searches. The general difference being, forensic evidence / body recovery dogs are searched slower, have been taught to do a fine search, check items for scent sources, and alert without seeing an object. Most live human search dogs are trained to keep looking until they find the person and then to alert. Younger and less experienced dogs had fewer problems and were willing to commit to an alert more readily than some of the mainly live human search dogs.

    Questions, Variables, Problems, Future Ideas
    One of the questions that we have wondered about after observing dogs who have worked the problem prior is; do the dogs remember where items were previously placed or where they alerted before and how long do they remember?

    Also, what effect does having an observer that is knowledgeable of all the locations have on the team? Can the handler and or dog read body language that gives them information as to where they should look or alert?

    Plans for our next visit include having first time teams work the building by themselves without an observer on deck. The handler will then report any alerts or interest to the observer by showing them on a diagram of the building. This way the handler will have to commit to what the dog has done without any input from the observer. The observer will not be able to influence the team while they are searching.

    No food reward will be allowed in the building.

    Our next residual scent projects will employ measurable scent items. Example: 3cc of blood mixed with 2oz of human hair, or a specific human bone. This way we can control and repeat the scent items more closely in different conditions.

    Room with the blood (3cc) is not a true residual scent problem, as we have defined it, because the blood has been left on the floor and door. But we now have data on how long dogs can locate dried blood.

    Our next step in studying residual scent is to set up problems in different environments. We want to compare our results with problems set up in open areas, areas with sun and shade and no building to protect the scent.

    Room #11 - dried blood - dogs able to show dried blood on door and floor

    Room #5 - soil with dried fluids - dog showing
    inside closet where source had been

    Room #18 - Hair with scent - all dogs indicated
    flue area of chimney where source had been

    Room #18 - area where trash can had been - dogs all indicated
    area and showed pile of curtains now on floor but had been
    hanging above trash can originally. Curtains are porous and
    holding scent.
Don't Panic

mylestheslasher

Lads, Cops will often release/leak this type of stuff to try and scare the culprit into making a move of some sort. We simply don't know what is going on behind the scenes but it does look like something is happening and hopefully the sorry story will come to an end soon.

Hurler on the Bitch

Look, thanks for the question. The thing that dare not speak its name?

The Real Laoislad

Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 16, 2007, 10:53:19 PM
Who do the members of the board suspect in either the abduction or if she is dead the killing of this little girl?



The very first thing i posted on this matter was my suspicions of the parents,At the time i said that i felt awful for thinking it and hoped i was wrong and these are still both my feelings on the matter
You'll Never Walk Alone.

pintsofguinness

i suspect that either or both parents were involved. there was something strange about the whole thing from the start. i expect it all to come out soon.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

spiritof91and94

Lets hope this isnt true.

Hound

Quote from: Take Your Points on August 16, 2007, 11:39:03 PM

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

FIRST POSTED AUGUST 8, 2007

But since then, its been confirmed that it wasnt her blood...

I can't beleive the parents had anything to do with it. The only motive I can think of is that they killed her by accident when disciplining her too roughly - and then have done everything since then as a massive cover-up. I just find it too elaborate to be believable.

There was talk about ther twins been given a "sedative". Obviously no idea if thats true, but there are parents all over Ireland and Britain who often give their children Doze-all (sp?), a medicine type product that has been on the market for years to help children sleep. I'd never dream of using it myself but many many parents have done so.

The Portuguese police have a reputation for being absolutely useless, but lets hope they find the truth, whatever that is.

Smokin Joe

I didn't realise that the McCanns were on holiday with another half a dozen adults.  That makes it even worse that one of the 6 or 7 couldn't have taken it night about to mind the kids while the others ate.

A Quinn Martin Production

While I find it difficult to believe that the parents were involved given what would be an extraordinary cover-up involving a huge number of people...one thing has always struck me as strange.  The reported sightings of a man carrying what appeared to be a child wrapped in a blanket from the McCann's apartment surfaced about three weeks into the case.  This would not be unusual except for the fact that they came from people who were at the tapas bar with the McCann's.  Why didn't they report this immediately it was discovered that Madeleine was missing ???
Antrim - One Of A Dying Breed of Genuine Dual Counties