You can't coach intelligence

Started by fearglasmor, November 20, 2007, 10:49:48 AM

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fearglasmor

I have two nephews 11 and 13 years old.
Played football and hurling in school, no great shakes, but went along to training every week with the local club. Togged out for matches week in week out and never once got as much as 5 minutes on the field. The lads were getting fed up so their mother went to the team manager and reasonably, she was well aware that they were unlikely to be all ireland winning material, asked that they be given a chance to play in the matches.
Now our local supremo with all the GAA coaching qualifications in hand took the matter in hand and informed her, in front of the lads,  that " ah I'll give a run to the lads that are no good for five minutes in the next match, it's our last game anyway".

The two lads are now enjoying their rugby.

Now as I said , they were no great shakes, but who is to say they wouldn't be late developers and turn into useful club players. And even if they didn't, they could have ended up being good chairmen, secretaries or pro's. For sure, none of that will happen now.

It just goes to prove you can talk all you like about coaching courses and levels, but you can't put intelligence in a place it doesn't exist.

maxpower

idiot, this and issues like this are the real issues the GAA should be dealing with. 

I think our club (Dunloy) has finally adopted a model that will given time have a huge impact on the quality of Coaching and Coaches.  Each code has a coaching co-ordinator with an overall coaching co ordinator overseeing all issues.  It is up to these people to ensure the right people are appointed to the right positions and that Parent/Players/Coaches have somewhere they can turn for support or complaints etc

Its in it infancy yet but already i ave noticed improvements, and as a coach i got great feedback from a top coach within the club
What happens next????

robertemmet

With the amount of GAA courses / Child Protection courses out there, you would think this sort of thing would be a thing of the past.  How would that coach feel if it was his own son/daughter/brother/sister etc.

You have to treat people with a bit of respect

Armagh CĂșchulainns

Quote:

Played football and hurling in school, no great shakes, but went along to training every week with the local club. Togged out for matches week in week out and never once got as much as 5 minutes on the field. The lads were getting fed up.

Myself:
I played football and Hurling in Armagh, in the football scene i was no allstar in fact i knew i wasnt that good, but neverless i always went along to training every week with the local club. Togged out for matches week in week out and only once did i get as much as 10 minutes on the field and that was because we only had 15 players.
I was getting fed up so i decided to stop playing football after leaving minor. On the hurling side i played from under 12 right through to minor level last year playing defence the whole time.

I now referee both football and hurling in Armagh as well as help the hurling club coaching under 10s and hope to progress further up the managerial ladder in future.


I too know how senseless some managers are and i can assure that i will never let that sort of thing happen to any players on the teams i will coach. Theres nothing worse than young players leaving the game, especially over somebody not willing to give them a chance.
Its all about the Hurling.

theskull1

Do youse not think especially at juvenile level that all clubs need to buy into the whole idea of participation for all to ensure things like that don't happen. If one manager does it whilst all the other clubs are going hammers and tongs with their best 15 then his own players will wonder wtf he is doing and his best, maybe more competitive players will become demotivated.

That was a terrible thing to say to youngsters btw, but whenever you're a manager of young teams up against clubs who are only interested in winning it can be difficult to effectively lie down to them just so that everyone on your squad gets a game. It's a difficult balancing act is it not?
It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

saffron sam2

Quote from: theskull1 on November 20, 2007, 11:32:58 AM
Do youse not think especially at juvenile level that all clubs need to buy into the whole idea of participation for all to ensure things like that don't happen. If one manager does it whilst all the other clubs are going hammers and tongs with their best 15 then his own players will wonder wtf he is doing and his best, maybe more competitive players will become demotivated.

That was a terrible thing to say to youngsters btw, but whenever you're a manager of young teams up against clubs who are only interested in winning it can be difficult to effectively lie down to them just so that everyone on your squad gets a game. It's a difficult balancing act is it not?

Absolutely correct.  I think there is an argument for non-competitive games up to under 14, thereby ensuring everyone who wants a game, gets a game.

I was crap by the way, in case that is relevant.
the breathing of the vanished lies in acres round my feet

mannix

Happens at all levels.
Michael Jordan could not get on his high school team.
I have been on a few teams where better players watched while duds were played, at national school level I scored heavily in the school league but because of my parents being shy and poor I was left sitting while the wealthier at the time lads got to play even though one or two could not solo the ball.Gas now looking back but I felt bad at the time and would cry on the way home through the fields.
My advice is let the lads play rugby but keep an ONeills close by for practice. They can develop if given the chance, much like their education.

rory

There just seems to be a real 'winning is everything' attitude in a lot of clubs, even at under 8 level.

I totally agree that participation is the key and every player should have an equal chance at those ages.  

Also think that you shouldn't be playing 15 a side until you get to about 12.  Smaller teams means more touches for players.

We could also bring in a system similar to pee-wee football in the States which is based on weight classification rather than age.  Maybe we could use height.  How many times does an early developing child dominate at their age group until everyone catches up, height wise, and then discover that their skills never really developed because they never had to try hard.


Bogball XV

I think although I could be wrong that there is no competitive football in Derry below U14 - they have blitzes every weekend, but basically everyone gets a game.  After that I'm not sure.

AbbeySider

Quote from: fearglasmor on November 20, 2007, 10:49:48 AM

" ah I'll give a run to the lads that are no good for five minutes in the next match, it's our last game anyway".

The two lads are now enjoying their rugby.

Now as I said , they were no great shakes, but who is to say they wouldn't be late developers and turn into useful club players. And even if they didn't, they could have ended up being good chairmen, secretaries or pro's. For sure, none of that will happen now.

It just goes to prove you can talk all you like about coaching courses and levels, but you can't put intelligence in a place it doesn't exist.

My heart goes out to the young lads. I never really got a fair chance playing football during my teens and I practically gave it up for a while. I know what its like being on the bench and wanting to play.

The worst thing about it is that the lads that are getting games are developing a lot quicker at the age and the lads on the bench are not developing. Its sad but true. I went back to football about four or five years ago and am enjoying it again because Im getting games. I have also started playing rugby and its a great game for anyone to get involved in too.

Do some Dublin (or other county) U-10 teams rotate everyone thats playing so everyone gets a chance??

North Longford

May be wrong but I think in Longford there are some U10 and maybe U12 comps ran where the score isn't kept and everybody has to get a game.

mylestheslasher

That coaches attitude is disgraceful but is quite common in my experience. I was an average footballer underage and as I went from coach to coach I found that one would "rate" you and the other wouldn't. When you weren't rated you were left on the line, ignored in training etc etc. What these idiots don't realise is that young lads at U14, U12 can shoot up in size and ability in no time. When I coached underage teams I gave everyone a game. At training I restricted the bigger powerful players from ploughing up the field and dominating games as they could - much to their annoyance. One of these smaller average players grew to be 6 foot and player Ctr Forward for the county minors. In summary, you should never give up on any young player and clubs should ensure their trainers are aware of this.

full back

I agree that it is terrible for development of young players (& although in this case the coach is a tube) I would tend to blame the system more than the coaches on a general level.
In S Armagh, for example, there are certain sections in each age group with the teams getting weaker as you go down. Everything is geared around winning your particular section & in some cases manipulating certain results to end up in a certain section.
A lot of the interest in GAA in our area is due to the relative success of the county and to a certain extent the club. With the county on the wane, I think we are going to find  players who arent getting games, drifting away.
In my area at least there needs to be a complete overhaul up to under 12 or under 14 level in order to give everyone  a game

Gnevin

Did you say it to anyone in the club?
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

lynchbhoy

I find this sickening.
we have had similar problems in our own club. Teenagers have been left disillusioned and quit playing football because of a few different selectors are either roaring and shouting at certain players, not giving all the lads a game and just being ignorant towards these kids.
Its great wanting to win, but sometimes these coaches/managers have to realise that these kids might not be great today or tomorrow, but in time, will potentially be good enough for senior, or be very good junior/intermediate players.

Its as much about keeping kids interested in playing than winning. For local /social reasons not just club retention.
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