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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: ziggysego on May 15, 2008, 10:45:44 PM

Title: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: ziggysego on May 15, 2008, 10:45:44 PM
Low-paid Catholic and female civil servants may receive more than £100m in back-pay under plans by Peter Robinson.

The finance minister said he was prepared to deal with historic inequality in pay, affecting 9,000.

He has told officials to look at the scope of the problem and engage with trade unions to resolve the issue.

He said there may be serious financial implications "but I am not prepared to follow the actions of people who preceded me and leave it unresolved".

"There should be equal pay for equal work of equal value."

The move will affect about 9,000 civil servants in the lowest grades, mostly in secretarial and administrative posts.

More than 60% of civil servants employed at the AA and AO grades are from a Catholic background.

Workers who have retired from the Civil Service in the past six years could be entitled to the back-pay, which could be up to £20,000.

The finance minister said the executive could either approach the Treasury or find the money from last year's underspend in Northern Ireland.

"Direct rule ministers did not want to touch this issue because of the enormous amount of calculations and difficulties," he said.

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7403944.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7403944.stm)
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on May 15, 2008, 10:50:19 PM
Low paid workers to get a small uplift in wages. How the feck do they get away with that title? Fair enough AA and AO positions have an over-representation of females and Catholics but there still many many men and Protestants (and Protestant men) who will benefit from this as well. Shocking what the BBC try to get away with to add jazz to a story. You'd barely see it from the Sun.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: The Watcher Pat on June 03, 2009, 07:52:24 PM
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2009-06-01.4.1&s=speaker%3A10857#g4.38

Looks like this money could finally be on the way.

The assembly have passed a motion that this should be paid out within 3 month's.

I'm not sure all this motion business but does anyone know exactly what that motion means?

And isn't it just funny all this has came along in the week of a election...

Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: girt_giggler on June 04, 2009, 09:27:20 AM
how much are these bucks expecting / hoping to get per person?
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tankie on June 04, 2009, 10:28:06 AM
of course its the lazy civil servants who only benefit from this....  ::)
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: The Watcher Pat on June 04, 2009, 12:21:36 PM
Quote from: Tankie on June 04, 2009, 10:28:06 AM
of course its the lazy civil servants who only benefit from this....  ::)

And what to F**k would you know about it?

If you read the link you would find that Civil servants have been underpaid for years.

Why should they not get the back pay that they are owed?
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: The Watcher Pat on November 23, 2009, 05:53:15 PM
Happy day's a offer has finally come from management side...£14,000 back pay for me and £3,000 a year pay rise...

Fcuk me you want to see the smile on my face now... ;D
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: sammymaguire on November 23, 2009, 05:56:20 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on November 23, 2009, 05:53:15 PM
Happy day's a offer has finally come from management side...£14,000 back pay for me and £3,000 a year pay rise...

Fcuk me you want to see the smile on my face now... ;D

start upping them football bets now Pat, from £5 to £50  ;)
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: stew on November 23, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on November 23, 2009, 05:53:15 PM
Happy day's a offer has finally come from management side...£14,000 back pay for me and £3,000 a year pay rise...

Fcuk me you want to see the smile on my face now... ;D

Fair play to you Pat. Enjoy the money, you earned it. ;D
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 23, 2009, 06:21:58 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on November 23, 2009, 05:53:15 PM
Happy day's a offer has finally come from management side...£14,000 back pay for me and £3,000 a year pay rise...

Fcuk me you want to see the smile on my face now... ;D

Fair play to you Pat. Enjoy the money, you earned it. ;D
:D your best joke yet!
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Square Ball on November 23, 2009, 08:00:10 PM
holy feck, there will be nobody in for overtime for ages.

Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Bing Crosby . on November 23, 2009, 09:56:33 PM
Is this a N.Ireland phuking forum or what ?
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 23, 2009, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: Bing Crosby . on November 23, 2009, 09:56:33 PM
Is this a N.Ireland phuking forum or what ?

The majority are from the North. We don't count. I'm a lazy hoor according to the lot of em!
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: sammymaguire on November 24, 2009, 08:42:55 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 23, 2009, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: Bing Crosby . on November 23, 2009, 09:56:33 PM
Is this a N.Ireland phuking forum or what ?

The majority are from the North. We don't count. I'm a lazy hoor according to the lot of em!

very good, and not denying it either farrandeelin!!  :D
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 24, 2009, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: stew on November 23, 2009, 06:15:02 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on November 23, 2009, 05:53:15 PM
Happy day's a offer has finally come from management side...£14,000 back pay for me and £3,000 a year pay rise...

Fcuk me you want to see the smile on my face now... ;D

Fair play to you Pat. Enjoy the money, you earned it. ;D

As a senior civil servant I'm not entitled to this but its great to see hard working poorly paid staff getting a lump sum like this. Fair play to them all. As you say Stew, Pat's earned it, mind you the sad thing is that their actual entitlement is twice this amount.
Lah-de-dah Mr. Senior Civil Servant. If the other senior civil servants were prepared to actually run the place like a business they'd slash the staffing numbers and use some of the savings to pay the remaining staff a decent wage. I would reckon a 30% staff reduction would start things off.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 24, 2009, 07:46:15 PM
Whatever you think yourself
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 24, 2009, 07:46:15 PM
Whatever you think yourself
My brother in law worked in a particular department a few years ago and a particular case he was on was subject to a judicial review so he did nothing for a year as there wasn't enough work for him. Imagine a year doing nothing. He applied for a move to another department where he now works.

He was telling me a few weeks ago that if he added up all the work he does in his new department it would probably account for 3 days a month! These stories aren't unique amongst people I know in NICS, but as he says there isn't the wherewithall in the service to change things as nests are too well feathered from top to bottom. The "senior civil servants" in his department are accountants and spend their days (paid for by us mugs) doing homers for people.

I said to him if it's that boring why doesn't he leave. He laughed and said when's the last time you heard of someone left the civil service! It's a shame as there are obviously good people wasting away under a mountain of inefficiency and ineptitude. They'd be better off working in the private sector and contributing something to the economy.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Silky on November 24, 2009, 08:09:37 PM
So it's the same north & south?
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 08:20:22 PM
Quote from: Silky on November 24, 2009, 08:09:37 PM
So it's the same north & south?
Probably the same worldwide. Accountability, or the lack of it, is the problem in government agencies. Trade Unions make the problem worse by using the threat of industrial action to demand jobs, any jobs, without worrying about mundane things like lean working, budgets, operational efficiency etc.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: stiffler on November 24, 2009, 08:25:53 PM
Is it true there are twice as many civil servants in the north per head than there are in the south?
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: The Gs Man on November 24, 2009, 09:31:59 PM
Here we go again!   ::)

Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: loughshore lad on November 24, 2009, 09:39:14 PM
Could these back payments be to soften the blow of potentially big cuts in the public sector over the coming years?  With the public finances in dire straights large cuts are inevitable.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Square Ball on November 24, 2009, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: loughshore lad on November 24, 2009, 09:39:14 PM
Could these back payments be to soften the blow of potentially big cuts in the public sector over the coming years?  With the public finances in dire straights large cuts are inevitable.

think they may just put a freeze on recruitment and promotion for a while, a long while
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: stew on November 24, 2009, 10:04:38 PM
Men and women went to work and were underpaid for years based on discriminatory practices, they deserve to get every penny that they should have gotten based on what their Protestant counterparts were paid for working at the same level within the civil service.

This is a good thing they govt have done here, give them credit for doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 24, 2009, 10:05:59 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 24, 2009, 07:46:15 PM
Whatever you think yourself
My brother in law worked in a particular department a few years ago and a particular case he was on was subject to a judicial review so he did nothing for a year as there wasn't enough work for him. Imagine a year doing nothing. He applied for a move to another department where he now works.

He was telling me a few weeks ago that if he added up all the work he does in his new department it would probably account for 3 days a month! These stories aren't unique amongst people I know in NICS, but as he says there isn't the wherewithall in the service to change things as nests are too well feathered from top to bottom. The "senior civil servants" in his department are accountants and spend their days (paid for by us mugs) doing homers for people.

I said to him if it's that boring why doesn't he leave. He laughed and said when's the last time you heard of someone left the civil service! It's a shame as there are obviously good people wasting away under a mountain of inefficiency and ineptitude. They'd be better off working in the private sector and contributing something to the economy.

Just now when I told you that I left it!

Right enough it can be a very frustrating place to work given how slowly the whole system works.


Quote from: stew on November 24, 2009, 10:04:38 PM
Men and women went to work and were underpaid for years based on discriminatory practices, they deserve to get every penny that they should have gotten based on what their Protestant counterparts were paid for working at the same level within the civil service.

This is a good thing they govt have done here, give them credit for doing the right thing.


Stew this pay deal is nothing to do with Catholics and Protestants receiving different money at the same level.

And I think its arguable as to whether AA and AOs are underpaid. That said, I do feel for a lot of civil servants who do get labelled with accusations of laziness that are often individually unfair but are just a result of the cumbersome nature of government.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 10:58:12 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 24, 2009, 10:05:59 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 08:05:47 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 24, 2009, 07:46:15 PM
Whatever you think yourself
My brother in law worked in a particular department a few years ago and a particular case he was on was subject to a judicial review so he did nothing for a year as there wasn't enough work for him. Imagine a year doing nothing. He applied for a move to another department where he now works.

He was telling me a few weeks ago that if he added up all the work he does in his new department it would probably account for 3 days a month! These stories aren't unique amongst people I know in NICS, but as he says there isn't the wherewithall in the service to change things as nests are too well feathered from top to bottom. The "senior civil servants" in his department are accountants and spend their days (paid for by us mugs) doing homers for people.

I said to him if it's that boring why doesn't he leave. He laughed and said when's the last time you heard of someone left the civil service! It's a shame as there are obviously good people wasting away under a mountain of inefficiency and ineptitude. They'd be better off working in the private sector and contributing something to the economy.

Just now when I told you that I left it!

Right enough it can be a very frustrating place to work given how slowly the whole system works.


Quote from: stew on November 24, 2009, 10:04:38 PM
Men and women went to work and were underpaid for years based on discriminatory practices, they deserve to get every penny that they should have gotten based on what their Protestant counterparts were paid for working at the same level within the civil service.

This is a good thing they govt have done here, give them credit for doing the right thing.


Stew this pay deal is nothing to do with Catholics and Protestants receiving different money at the same level.

And I think its arguable as to whether AA and AOs are underpaid. That said, I do feel for a lot off civil servants who do get labelled with accusations of laziness that are often individually unfair but are just a result of the cumbersome nature of government.

You weren't missed!

The whole discrimination thing was bollox was it not. It was to do with similar grades not having parity in their wages across the many departments.

As for the bold above, I totally agree.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Maguire01 on November 24, 2009, 11:31:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 08:20:22 PM
Quote from: Silky on November 24, 2009, 08:09:37 PM
So it's the same north & south?
Probably the same worldwide. Accountability, or the lack of it, is the problem in government agencies. Trade Unions make the problem worse by using the threat of industrial action to demand jobs, any jobs, without worrying about mundane things like lean working, budgets, operational efficiency etc.
Tony, you've probably hit the nail on the head with the Unions remark. In a lot of cases, the senior civil servants don't have much choice.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 24, 2009, 11:45:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 10:58:12 PM


The whole discrimination thing was bollox was it not. It was to do with similar grades not having parity in their wages across the many departments.

As for the bold above, I totally agree.

It was certainly nothing to do with discrimination. Just lazy media reporting. Ok there happened be more Catholics and women in the bottom 2 pay grades but the pay increase for for all genders and religions. In the past there would have been undoubtedly an issue with Catholics going for promotion but I don't think the same allegations can be made these days.

I'm not sure of the exact basis for the deal, are AA and AOs not on the same money across the NICS? And its very debateable as to whether they are genuinely underpaid compared to those doing similar jobs in the private sector.

The one thing that used to really irritate me in the civil service was that people who'd been there for years would be at the top of their pay scale (you went up one point every year though they are trying to phase it out) while those who were new into the job would be at the bottom of the scale. The net result was that another fella in my section in his late 50s at the same grade as me was earning 6 or 7 grand more than I was even though I think its fair to say that I was doing at least as good a job.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: The Watcher Pat on November 30, 2009, 09:49:32 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 24, 2009, 11:45:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2009, 10:58:12 PM


The whole discrimination thing was bollox was it not. It was to do with similar grades not having parity in their wages across the many departments.

As for the bold above, I totally agree.

It was certainly nothing to do with discrimination. Just lazy media reporting. Ok there happened be more Catholics and women in the bottom 2 pay grades but the pay increase for for all genders and religions. In the past there would have been undoubtedly an issue with Catholics going for promotion but I don't think the same allegations can be made these days.

I'm not sure of the exact basis for the deal, are AA and AOs not on the same money across the NICS? And its very debateable as to whether they are genuinely underpaid compared to those doing similar jobs in the private sector.

The one thing that used to really irritate me in the civil service was that people who'd been there for years would be at the top of their pay scale (you went up one point every year though they are trying to phase it out) while those who were new into the job would be at the bottom of the scale. The net result was that another fella in my section in his late 50s at the same grade as me was earning 6 or 7 grand more than I was even though I think its fair to say that I was doing at least as good a job.

It is to do with the difference between Technical Grades made up of approx 85% men and Clerical grades 60-65% women. There was a independant review on the work done and it recommended that the grades should be paid at equal value. Therefor the union took a equal pay case that the people(mostly women)in the clerical grades were discriminated against, from the offer made it seems the management side agree with this and dont want 1000's of equal pay tribunals.
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Lady GAA GAA on December 02, 2009, 07:03:46 PM
Fella I know just told me he is off tomorrow for his 'shopping day' and wil get a day off in the new year for his 'supervisor's day off'.

both paid leave. such a joke
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 02, 2009, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: Lady GAA GAA on December 02, 2009, 07:03:46 PM
Fella I know just told me he is off tomorrow for his 'shopping day' and wil get a day off in the new year for his 'supervisor's day off'.

both paid leave. such a joke
Your taxes working for you!
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: The Watcher Pat on December 02, 2009, 07:40:29 PM
Quote from: Lady GAA GAA on December 02, 2009, 07:03:46 PM
Fella I know just told me he is off tomorrow for his 'shopping day' and wil get a day off in the new year for his 'supervisor's day off'.

both paid leave. such a joke

Where's he work and why am I not getting that?
Title: Re: Back-pay for low-paid Catholics
Post by: Lady GAA GAA on December 02, 2009, 07:44:44 PM
dunno some dept in city centre social security maybe