McKenna Cup 2024

[Redhand Santa]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

Derry seemed to care in last years final. Most teams use it to give new players a go but still go out to win the games. Donegal are the only county team that don't take it seriously at all and should be thrown out of the competition. Most of the ulster counties don't win anything most years so maybe they should give it a go. Doesn't do you any harm winning it as Tyrone proved last year by going on to win Ulster.

[Fuzzman]

When did they start using it?
I always thought score difference was the best method after head to head of course.

I think Harte takes it seriously because he likes to get his teams into the winning habit as early as possible.
Winning breeds confidence and if you look at what teams Tyrone have lost to the last two years
2016 Mayo - All-Ireland finalists
2015 Kerry - All-Ireland finalists & Donegal

It is also a chance for the new players to show their worth and it looks like Lee Brennan, Ronan McHugh and Cahir McCullagh has already showed they know where the posts are. With Div 1 being so competitive it could be hard for this players to get a chance otherwise.

[BennyHarp]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

[Captain Obvious]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

Made no sense at all for Donegal to throw their U21s into a senior competition. A trimming like that last night was always possible and the Donegal U21s who would have been one of the favourites to win the All Ireland this spring will now have a damaged mindset and probably get turned over in Ulster

[J70]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

The issue in Donegal is giving the senior squad a rest. The younger seniors are getting runs out with their colleges anyway, whereas the McKenna Cup is of f**k all benefit to the likes of Neil Gallagher, Neil McGee, Karl Lacey or Frank McGlynn. A fair few of these U-21s have an opportunity to push for a senior spot this year and next, because we're heading into a transition period with the retirements and a couple of boys opting out. Plus, there is probably a bit of a jaded view of this competition in Donegal anyway - we won it twice under John Joe Doherty when no one else gave a bollocks, and John Joe's two year term, with all due respect, was not impressive (I've sympathy for him down to the way he got the appointment with the insanity over himself and Mulgrew/Bonner both being promised the job, but we ended each season with the Cork and Crossmaglen debacles, respectively, and a general appearance of tactical cluelessness all around).

I say fair play to Mickey though. It hasn't hurt Tyrone taking it seriously and, as you say, has probably helped overall in that they'll be well ready for the league, whereas the Donegal seniors are likely to be a bit rusty. If it helps freshen the legs in July though, who'll remember?

[J70]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

Made no sense at all for Donegal to throw their U21s into a senior competition. A trimming like that last night was always possible and the Donegal U21s who would have been one of the favourites to win the All Ireland this spring will now have a damaged mindset and probably get turned over in Ulster

Or they might head into Omagh in March with fire in their bellies!

Plus, Donegal seniors have been hammered by Tyrone in the McKenna before and got revenge later in the spring/summer when it mattered.

[Captain Obvious]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

The issue in Donegal is giving the senior squad a rest. The younger seniors are getting runs out with their colleges anyway, whereas the McKenna Cup is of f**k all benefit to the likes of Neil Gallagher, Neil McGee, Karl Lacey or Frank McGlynn. A fair few of these U-21s have an opportunity to push for a senior spot this year and next, because we're heading into a transition period with the retirements and a couple of boys opting out. Plus, there is probably a bit of a jaded view of this competition in Donegal anyway - we won it twice under John Joe Doherty when no one else gave a bollocks, and John Joe's two year term, with all due respect, was not impressive (I've sympathy for him down to the way he got the appointment with the insanity over himself and Mulgrew/Bonner both being promised the job, but we ended each season with the Cork and Crossmaglen debacles, respectively, and a general appearance of tactical cluelessness all around).

I say fair play to Mickey though. It hasn't hurt Tyrone taking it seriously and, as you say, has probably helped overall in that they'll be well ready for the league, whereas the Donegal seniors are likely to be a bit rusty. If it helps freshen the legs in July though, who'll remember?

Giving a run out to three or four U21s is fair enough but to enter your U21 squad into a senior competition? Come on now.

Donegal wouldn't be alone for resting their more senior seniors however surely Donegal have a enough lads aged 23 or older to fill in and given a opportunity to impress at this time of year.

[BennyHarp]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

The issue in Donegal is giving the senior squad a rest. The younger seniors are getting runs out with their colleges anyway, whereas the McKenna Cup is of f**k all benefit to the likes of Neil Gallagher, Neil McGee, Karl Lacey or Frank McGlynn. A fair few of these U-21s have an opportunity to push for a senior spot this year and next, because we're heading into a transition period with the retirements and a couple of boys opting out. Plus, there is probably a bit of a jaded view of this competition in Donegal anyway - we won it twice under John Joe Doherty when no one else gave a bollocks, and John Joe's two year term, with all due respect, was not impressive (I've sympathy for him down to the way he got the appointment with the insanity over himself and Mulgrew/Bonner both being promised the job, but we ended each season with the Cork and Crossmaglen debacles, respectively, and a general appearance of tactical cluelessness all around).

I say fair play to Mickey though. It hasn't hurt Tyrone taking it seriously and, as you say, has probably helped overall in that they'll be well ready for the league, whereas the Donegal seniors are likely to be a bit rusty. If it helps freshen the legs in July though, who'll remember?

I agree that playing the McKenna cup is of no real benefit to Gallagher, McGlynn, Lacey and the like but like Capt Obvious said, there's enough lads on the fringes of that squad and in their mid 20s to beef up the panel. I'd be fairly confident that come July/August  it won't be a game or two extra in the McKenna cup that costs either Tyrone or Donegal a big game.

I don't know much about the Donegal U21 panel but was it even their full squad? Had they lads playing for the universities? There may have been lads playing last night way way out of their depth and who is that benefitting? You'll tell more about lads when they are involved in competitive games, shipping 23 point defeats tells you nothing and does more harm than good.

[J70]

It's a balls of a competition anyways, apart from Tyrone who gives a shit - fair play to Donegal giving the U21's a run out.

What benefit exactly would either Donegal seniors or U21 team get from shipping a 23 point hammering last night? And you are praising this policy? Mickey may take it seriously but he always gives 4 or 5 new players a run in each game. Much better to see how they perform in a competitive environment than the shambles that was Donegal last night. It always makes me laugh when people criticize a team for winning matches.

The issue in Donegal is giving the senior squad a rest. The younger seniors are getting runs out with their colleges anyway, whereas the McKenna Cup is of f**k all benefit to the likes of Neil Gallagher, Neil McGee, Karl Lacey or Frank McGlynn. A fair few of these U-21s have an opportunity to push for a senior spot this year and next, because we're heading into a transition period with the retirements and a couple of boys opting out. Plus, there is probably a bit of a jaded view of this competition in Donegal anyway - we won it twice under John Joe Doherty when no one else gave a bollocks, and John Joe's two year term, with all due respect, was not impressive (I've sympathy for him down to the way he got the appointment with the insanity over himself and Mulgrew/Bonner both being promised the job, but we ended each season with the Cork and Crossmaglen debacles, respectively, and a general appearance of tactical cluelessness all around).

I say fair play to Mickey though. It hasn't hurt Tyrone taking it seriously and, as you say, has probably helped overall in that they'll be well ready for the league, whereas the Donegal seniors are likely to be a bit rusty. If it helps freshen the legs in July though, who'll remember?

Giving a run out to three or four U21s is fair enough but to enter your U21 squad into a senior competition? Come on now.

Donegal wouldn't be alone for resting their more senior seniors however surely Donegal have a enough lads aged 23 or older to fill in and given a opportunity to impress at this time of year.

Out of last year's starting 15, O'Reilly, McBrearty, the two McHughs and Hugh McFadden all played for their colleges (there are probably a few more, and yet more from U-21s). Thompson, McLoone and MacNiallais are on break. Toye, Eamon McGee, Colm McFadden and Rory Kavanagh are retired. David Walsh, just a bit player lately, is gone too. That pretty much leaves Murphy, McGlynn, Neil McGee, Lacey and Neil Gallagher who are resting this month and then one or two young lads who featured. There's not a lot more there. 14 U21s are on the senior squad.

[GrandMasterFlash]

Am I right in saying that Armagh's scoring average actually went down after their 3 point win tonight. Before the game it was 43/28= 1.714 and afterwards it was 61/42=1.45? Seems a strange method to use to decide placings.

I disagree, scoring average is probably the best decision method as in considers both your attacking (for) and defensive strengths (against).

does scoring average not encourage defensive play?

based on my maths, you are better off winning low scoring matches than high scoring matches!

e.g. For 10 points
against 5 points
Average = 2

To get an average of 2 with a high scoring game would mean you have to win by a bigger margin to keep the same average.
e.g. if you scored 30 points, you would have to win the game by 15 points to get an average of 2.

Personally, I don't see the logic in using averages instead of scoring difference.

Am I missing something?

Correct, if you win every game by 0.2 to 0.1 you would have an average of 2.0 even though you only have a points difference of +3.  Also is it possible to calculate an average if you keep the other team scoreless?

Agreed lads - good points..

[tyroneman]

Turgid game in Clones v Fermanagh.

Forwards had very little space on either side, Tyrone just about deserved the win but credit to Fermanagh, they started brightly and with some better shooting could have made this much more uncomfortable.

Sludden and mcCurry best for Tyrone. McNulty did ok but tends to charge down blind alleys at times into 4 or 5 men. Sometimes you get the free from that, sometimes not.

Big Quigley was impressive stroking the ball over off the ground from 45+, looked like he put no effort into the kicks but they just glided over. 

Fermanagh tackling and disposession was excellent. Turned Tyrone over on numerous occasions.

McShane wasnt great in the FF role but there will be better days ahead for him I'm sure. McKenna was ok, nothing spectacular.

Big Sean had a mare in the 10min he was on. Lost possession several times and got himself booked. Didn't come back out for second half, although Colm (who Sean replaced) did, do must have been a blood sub.

Brennan worked hard and there is definitely a good player there.

Was there much really learned from the Tyrone side? Not really.

[omagh_gael]

Highlights of tyrone v fermanagh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/38699568

[FermGael]

I have no idea where they got that fella Mooney from in Cavan but he ruined that game.
Far to fussy , didn't let the game flow and made some very questionable calls throughout the game.

Decent enough game but Fermanagh kicked too many wides.  We made poor decisioms at crucial times and gave the ball away far too easily.  The only positive we can take from it is that we didn't roll over but we have to start stepping up against the better teams. Too easy to take a morale victory.
Though Sludden at chf was excellent as was P Harte.

I wonder what idiot decided a Derry V Tyrone final should be fixed for Newry on a Saturday night ?

[BennyCake]

It's up to you now Derry, to stop the "Dicks for Six".

[Throw ball]

I have no idea where they got that fella Mooney from in Cavan but he ruined that game.
Far to fussy , didn't let the game flow and made some very questionable calls throughout the game.

Decent enough game but Fermanagh kicked too many wides.  We made poor decisioms at crucial times and gave the ball away far too easily.  The only positive we can take from it is that we didn't roll over but we have to start stepping up against the better teams. Too easy to take a morale victory.
Though Sludden at chf was excellent as was P Harte.

I wonder what idiot decided a Derry V Tyrone final should be fixed for Newry on a Saturday night ?

Armagh unavailable due to club All Ireland semi finals on Sunday.