I see another GP surgery in the north has handed in its contract. It will close unless a replacement GP can be found. That brings the total number of surgeries to at least 6 by my count in the last few months (Flax, Glen road, 2 in Ballymena, Trillick, Shantallow, there may be more im forgetting), with tens of thousands of people affected. This will then of course have a knock on effect for the surrounding surgeries who will have to take on these patients, compounding their own problems and stretching their resources.
My understanding is that its not a nice environment to work in. Growing waiting lists in the hospitals has led to people being managed by their GPs for years when they really should be under a consultant. This leads to a huge workload for the surgery and less time to deal with the day to day traditional GP stuff, leading to people being frustrated/angry and GPs getting fed up.
I cant remember the exact stat but a large percentage of GPs are over the age of 55. More and more young doctors choose to go into hospital instead. This is a ticking time bomb as GPs tend to retire before 65.
What do people think is the solution to this crisis? Do we have a recruitment problem?
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 02, 2022, 09:48:55 AM
I see another GP surgery in the north has handed in its contract. It will close unless a replacement GP can be found. That brings the total number of surgeries to at least 6 by my count in the last few months (Flax, Glen road, 2 in Ballymena, Trillick, Shantallow, there may be more im forgetting), with tens of thousands of people affected. This will then of course have a knock on effect for the surrounding surgeries who will have to take on these patients, compounding their own problems and stretching their resources.
My understanding is that its not a nice environment to work in. Growing waiting lists in the hospitals has led to people being managed by their GPs for years when they really should be under a consultant. This leads to a huge workload for the surgery and less time to deal with the day to day traditional GP stuff, leading to people being frustrated/angry and GPs getting fed up.
I cant remember the exact stat but a large percentage of GPs are over the age of 55. More and more young doctors choose to go into hospital instead. This is a ticking time bomb as GPs tend to retire before 65.
What do people think is the solution to this crisis? Do we have a recruitment problem?
There's a recruitment and retention problem with both doctors and nurses where once they're trained can earn far more either in the private sector or abroad, so why would they stay.
The Tory's have managed the NHS to this point deliberately to get the hybrid Public/Private healthcare system that they want.
There's already GP practices in England owned by Private US providers.
Roslea and Lisnaskea in Fermanagh are also in similar positions
I've been thankful for my private healthcare recently, got a 20 minute video call with a GP within the hour. Was unable to register for a GP anywhere in Belfast after recently moving here. I wouldn't be against a certain level of private healthcare if it improves the overall system as long as those that can't afford it get it for free. I've experienced this model in Canada and also in RoI and it's vastly superior to what is on offer from the NHS in NI.
I think people in the north have this taboo about paying for healthcare. It's even something unionists love to use as a stick to beat nationalists with on Irish unity.
I would rather pay a fee to see a GP instead of the current lottery with phone calls.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 02, 2022, 10:28:30 AM
I think people in the north have this taboo about paying for healthcare. It's even something unionists love to use as a stick to beat nationalists with on Irish unity.
I would rather pay a fee to see a GP instead of the current lottery with phone calls.
Yeah wouldn't mind paying myself, if the decent care is there. Duality in Newry are worse than useless though.
The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?
The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.
At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 02, 2022, 10:28:30 AM
I think people in the north have this taboo about paying for healthcare. It's even something unionists love to use as a stick to beat nationalists with on Irish unity.
I would rather pay a fee to see a GP instead of the current lottery with phone calls.
Yeah there is a definite taboo. I was thinking about it the other day and i can't bring my dog to the vet without handing over £50, i can't go to the Dentist without handing over at least £100 (can't get an NHS dentist so had to go private) but people are outraged at paying to see a GP. If it improves the service i'll pay. The other argument is it's only like this as Tories have cut funding, essentially forcing people to have the same view as me, which in fairness is probably working. The question now is if it is beyond the point of saving, i'd say probably.
Unionists can't use that stick anymore as the NHS is a complete shambles.
Quote from: Mario on December 02, 2022, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 02, 2022, 10:28:30 AM
I think people in the north have this taboo about paying for healthcare. It's even something unionists love to use as a stick to beat nationalists with on Irish unity.
I would rather pay a fee to see a GP instead of the current lottery with phone calls.
Yeah there is a definite taboo. I was thinking about it the other day and i can't bring my dog to the vet without handing over £50, i can't go to the Dentist without handing over at least £100 (can't get an NHS dentist so had to go private) but people are outraged at paying to see a GP. If it improves the service i'll pay. The other argument is it's only like this as Tories have cut funding, essentially forcing people to have the same view as me, which in fairness is probably working. The question now is if it is beyond the point of saving, i'd say probably.
Unionists can't use that stick anymore as the NHS is a complete shambles.
They will though. And plenty of people will lap it up blindly
I've been working in a few different surgeries these last number of years and the differences is the number of GP's available, the GP that owns this one I'm at is in his late 60's, while fit and energetic surely you'd be looking to put the feet up and enjoy your retirement!
There is one locum doctor, he's there 3 days a week and working on private healthcare 2 days a week elsewhere, the 2 days elsewhere pays more than the 3 locum days, and locums are paid well enough
There is another doctor here, she's working 4 days
3 nurses, your general nurse and the other two have different qualifications and do a wee bit more I think
If you are paying someone better money with better conditions then you will not hang about a local GP practice
What state are we in health wise though that we need to be seeing our GPs so often?
People don't help themselves, bad lifestyle choices make up the brunt of GP appointments I'd guess, be interesting to know what a country like Denmark would be like for people attending surgeries
There are two counsellors that are in once a week on private work who are flat out and have said they could triple their workload if there was enough time in the day to do it...
If people were paying for it I don't think it would improve the waiting times TBH, as said above there is no one interested in doing it anymore, its not got the same title has it had maybe 30 or 40 years ago. Pay them more and encourage more people to do it, the amount of local students that have to go abroad to do medicine is one area they really need to look at. friends daughter had the qualifications to get into Queens and lost out at the interview, went to Newcastle and is now on the Gold coast, lost to another country!
Oh and how e have managed to turn this into a unionist thing is typical
There is a plan to open a medical school in Derry. This would increase the number of doctors generally, but would also increase the number of doctors associated with the area and some could become GPs.
Mind you, even if they manage to do this, it will be decade before it does any good.
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 02, 2022, 10:40:39 AM
The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?
The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.
At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.
People keep blaming the Tories and yes they haven't helped but Health is a devolved matter and we have had no government for the best part of the last 10 years. Reform is badly needed and it simply hasn't been delivered. Blaming the Tories for every ill exonerates the absolute abdication of responsibility from Sinn Fein and the DUP. And when they last had the chance to take the health portfolio they wouldn't go near it leaving it to Robin Swann and the UUP. That's the leadership we have locally. We voted them in and we have got exactly what we voted for.
I have private health insurance for me and my family. I suggest everyone gets the same as the NHS will not be fixed anytime soon either by the Tories or local MLAs.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 11:24:47 AM
There is a plan to open a medical school in Derry. This would increase the number of doctors generally, but would also increase the number of doctors associated with the area and some could become GPs.
Mind you, even if they manage to do this, it will be decade before it does any good.
That's not the magic bullet you think it is. If the NHS could retain the Doctors and Nurses it already trains that would be far more beneficial than any new medical school.
Quote from: trailer on December 02, 2022, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 11:24:47 AM
There is a plan to open a medical school in Derry. This would increase the number of doctors generally, but would also increase the number of doctors associated with the area and some could become GPs.
Mind you, even if they manage to do this, it will be decade before it does any good.
That's not the magic bullet you think it is. If the NHS could retain the Doctors and Nurses it already trains that would be far more beneficial than any new medical school.
Yes and no. There is a geographic issue here also.
But both administrations on this island could benefit from reducing the number going to Australia etc and instead attract some Australians to come here.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 11:38:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 02, 2022, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 11:24:47 AM
There is a plan to open a medical school in Derry. This would increase the number of doctors generally, but would also increase the number of doctors associated with the area and some could become GPs.
Mind you, even if they manage to do this, it will be decade before it does any good.
That's not the magic bullet you think it is. If the NHS could retain the Doctors and Nurses it already trains that would be far more beneficial than any new medical school.
Yes and no. There is a geographic issue here also.
But both administrations on this island could benefit from reducing the number going to Australia etc and instead attract some Australians to come here.
Will the be training local doctors or bring in students from other countries?
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 11:38:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 02, 2022, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 11:24:47 AM
There is a plan to open a medical school in Derry. This would increase the number of doctors generally, but would also increase the number of doctors associated with the area and some could become GPs.
Mind you, even if they manage to do this, it will be decade before it does any good.
That's not the magic bullet you think it is. If the NHS could retain the Doctors and Nurses it already trains that would be far more beneficial than any new medical school.
Yes and no. There is a geographic issue here also.
But both administrations on this island could benefit from reducing the number going to Australia etc and instead attract some Australians to come here.
I've a small bit of experience in a similar area albeit there's a few differences. Australians want to come over surely but they want London, Edinburgh bigger cities usually. Derry or Enniskillen isn't always on their radar.
A medical school is welcome and would be a help no doubt, but it won't solve all the problems around the number of Docs. I think we both agree on that tbf.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 11:21:55 AM
Pay them more and encourage more people to do it, the amount of local students that have to go abroad to do medicine is one area they really need to look at. friends daughter had the qualifications to get into Queens and lost out at the interview, went to Newcastle and is now on the Gold coast, lost to another country!
Going to Australia seems like a rite of passage for most medical students, but in my anecdotal experience the vast majority return after a few years (or less).
Quote from: Mario on December 02, 2022, 11:47:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 11:21:55 AM
Pay them more and encourage more people to do it, the amount of local students that have to go abroad to do medicine is one area they really need to look at. friends daughter had the qualifications to get into Queens and lost out at the interview, went to Newcastle and is now on the Gold coast, lost to another country!
Going to Australia seems like a rite of passage for most medical students, but in my anecdotal experience the vast majority return after a few years (or less).
Fingers crossed she will, and I hope its to the North rather than England, but ya meet someone and put down roots then its not going to happen
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 02, 2022, 10:40:39 AM
The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?
The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.
At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.
Do we not have more spent here on the NHS with much worse outcomes so not sure it's just as straightforward as that
Quote from: trailer on December 02, 2022, 11:27:54 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 02, 2022, 10:40:39 AM
The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?
The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.
At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.
People keep blaming the Tories and yes they haven't helped but Health is a devolved matter and we have had no government for the best part of the last 10 years. Reform is badly needed and it simply hasn't been delivered. Blaming the Tories for every ill exonerates the absolute abdication of responsibility from Sinn Fein and the DUP. And when they last had the chance to take the health portfolio they wouldn't go near it leaving it to Robin Swann and the UUP. That's the leadership we have locally. We voted them in and we have got exactly what we voted for.
I have private health insurance for me and my family. I suggest everyone gets the same as the NHS will not be fixed anytime soon either by the Tories or local MLAs.
This. I think people need to look at how career politicians here have been unwilling to take the steps recommended by Bengoa, because they are more interested in parish pump politics.
"We need to close remote centres and centralise our services" doesn't buy many votes, but it is what is needed.
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 02, 2022, 12:26:18 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 02, 2022, 10:40:39 AM
The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?
The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.
At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.
Do we not have more spent here on the NHS with much worse outcomes so not sure it's just as straightforward as that
There is less spent on public health in the north than in the 26 counties. However, NI spends more than England with poorer results.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 02, 2022, 12:53:24 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on December 02, 2022, 12:26:18 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 02, 2022, 10:40:39 AM
The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?
The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.
At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.
Do we not have more spent here on the NHS with much worse outcomes so not sure it's just as straightforward as that
There is less spent on public health in the north than in the 26 counties. However, NI spends more than England with poorer results.
Yeah so the point about us being the "distant relative" is not true. We receive more public funding per head than any area of the UK
Incidentally I looked which constituency our last 5 health ministers were from:
Robin Swann - North Antrim
Michelle O'Neill - Mid ulster
Simon Hamilton - Strangford
Jim Wells - South Down
Edwin Poots - Lagan Valley
4 of these are from rural constituencies which would be hard to sell the centralisation model to. Like I said, career politicians....
I'm from South Armagh and I have said for years to close Daisy Hill. Build a good A and E in Newry with trauma facilities to stabilise patients on the site with additional ambulances.Even invested in the Air Ambulance. If your involved in a serious traffic accident or massive heart attack you are shipped to the royal anyway as it is. The male and female medical should be moved to to either Craigavon as well as maternity. The cost of operating a facility the size of Daisy Hill must be huge. This is not a popular opinion around my way but whats the alternatives? SDLP and SF haven't the balls to touch this.
My sister lives in South County Monaghan, her nears hospital is Cavan Town(35miles) or Drogheda(57 miles) but they have services in Monaghan Town to cope with accidents and get you stable to transfer.
I often wondered. We have prescribing pharmacists in GP surgeries now. These are well educated highly trained medical.professionals could there not be some bridging course for a year or two to train them to be GPs?
Quote from: WT4E on December 02, 2022, 01:50:56 PM
I often wondered. We have prescribing pharmacists in GP surgeries now. These are well educated highly trained medical.professionals could there not be some bridging course for a year or two to train them to be GPs?
Unfortunately not. There's alot more to a GP. Diagnosing being the big thing. Prescribing pharmacists focus on one area eg. Asthma, type 2 diabetes, hypertension.
Quote from: pbat on December 02, 2022, 01:44:30 PM
I'm from South Armagh and I have said for years to close Daisy Hill. Build a good A and E in Newry with trauma facilities to stabilise patients on the site with additional ambulances.Even invested in the Air Ambulance. If your involved in a serious traffic accident or massive heart attack you are shipped to the royal anyway as it is. The male and female medical should be moved to to either Craigavon as well as maternity. The cost of operating a facility the size of Daisy Hill must be huge. This is not a popular opinion around my way but whats the alternatives? SDLP and SF haven't the balls to touch this.
My sister lives in South County Monaghan, her nears hospital is Cavan Town(35miles) or Drogheda(57 miles) but they have services in Monaghan Town to cope with accidents and get you stable to transfer.
Daisy Hill along with probably other hospital is not fit for purpose. Agree that the smart move would be to close it but only if you could guarantee top class healthcare in Craigavon. Would be political suicide to suggest it though, even from the pov of the amount of jobs DHH provides to locals, you like me likely have a friend or relative who does/has worked there.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 02, 2022, 01:37:40 PM
Incidentally I looked which constituency our last 5 health ministers were from:
Robin Swann - North Antrim
Michelle O'Neill - Mid ulster
Simon Hamilton - Strangford
Jim Wells - South Down
Edwin Poots - Lagan Valley
4 of these are from rural constituencies which would be hard to sell the centralisation model to. Like I said, career politicians....
Yeah good point . Maybe we should leave the running of the north to the civil servants permanently?
I mean , what use are the politicians? When it comes down to it , and decisions need making , all they're concerned about is their own seats and big pay packet
This is an interesting discussion which gets into some of the reasons why the current system is no longer fit for purpose. It's way more than just political decision making.
When I was a student in 1997 my girlfriend at the time was a med student. At that time they were planning closing down DH among other hospitals and upgrading Altnagelvin and Craigavon. Create Trauma Centres in the place of the likes of DH like pbat suggested but there was too much push back. It really is the only way to do it. We are far too used to having the big service irrespective of the cost. Less hospitals and more on the ground trauma services would better serve us but it's not popular
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6S16LR0Ypxu8Xgf8tp0Um3?si=Z40miR9sQGCQN9jmHNnduw
Forgot the link
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 02, 2022, 09:48:55 AM
I see another GP surgery in the north has handed in its contract. It will close unless a replacement GP can be found. That brings the total number of surgeries to at least 6 by my count in the last few months (Flax, Glen road, 2 in Ballymena, Trillick, Shantallow, there may be more im forgetting), with tens of thousands of people affected. This will then of course have a knock on effect for the surrounding surgeries who will have to take on these patients, compounding their own problems and stretching their resources.
My understanding is that its not a nice environment to work in. Growing waiting lists in the hospitals has led to people being managed by their GPs for years when they really should be under a consultant. This leads to a huge workload for the surgery and less time to deal with the day to day traditional GP stuff, leading to people being frustrated/angry and GPs getting fed up.
I cant remember the exact stat but a large percentage of GPs are over the age of 55. More and more young doctors choose to go into hospital instead. This is a ticking time bomb as GPs tend to retire before 65.
What do people think is the solution to this crisis? Do we have a recruitment problem?
Pretty good article here describing the challenges facing the nhs in recruiting gp's. This was written before Covid19 so the problems are now much worse!
https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/why-cant-you-get-a-gp-appointment/#:~:text=The%20fall%20in%20the%20number%20of%20GPs%20in,the%20number%20of%20GPs%20choosing%20to%20work%20part-time.
A few other factors that are not contained in the article that may have some relevancy.
I think also most young doctors see their profession solely as a job and less as a vocation. This vocationary element has definitely changed over time and the idea of staying to work as a gp in your own community is not a very attractive one, when you can travel to Austrailia/New Zealand or practice in the private sector.
Newly qualified doctors leaving college, for the most part in massive debt. They are nearly always going to go for the position with the highest salary and the best work/life balance and who can blame them?
One other element that might be at play is the proportion of female to male doctors qualifying. Traditionally it was a very male dominated but this has been reversed( thankfully) but there may be implications( without greatly increasing the total number of graduates) for patients. This was one side of the debate.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2287266/
Complex debate, but inevitably the slide towards the private care and a much reduced NHS is well underway. The Conservatives are overjoyed.
My problem with the health service here is that we all know it's failing and failing badly but we do nothing about it. Reports are commissioned that recommend that changes be made, like closing certain hospitals. All parties agree but once push comes to shove they won't do it. They hope that London makes the hard choices for them so they can, sit back and be like we opposed that.
Another issue is a hospital like Dungannon should be used as a surgical hub as fairly central to the North and okay roads to it. The issue occurs when they try to do this is that some auld doll from Belfast goes onto the Nolan show or something else and is like oh I'm not fit to go to Dungannon for the operation causing a massive storm in a teacup.
Looks to me like a system like the South with private health insurance may be the only way out of this.
Quote from: Twobounces on December 02, 2022, 06:00:25 PM
My problem with the health service here is that we all know it's failing and failing badly but we do nothing about it. Reports are commissioned that recommend that changes be made, like closing certain hospitals. All parties agree but once push comes to shove they won't do it. They hope that London makes the hard choices for them so they can, sit back and be like we opposed that.
Another issue is a hospital like Dungannon should be used as a surgical hub as fairly central to the North and okay roads to it. The issue occurs when they try to do this is that some auld doll from Belfast goes onto the Nolan show or something else and is like oh I'm not fit to go to Dungannon for the operation causing a massive storm in a teacup.
Looks to me like a system like the South with private health insurance may be the only way out of this.
This made me laugh because ive heard someone from Belfast complain about being sent to Dungannon for an ENT consultation. They were horrified at the prospect.
I see 47% of us in the 26 now have Health Insurance.
C33% have Medical Cards and around 10% have GP visit cards
https://www.joe.ie/news/junior-doctor-sleep-761117
Just another symptom of the shambles that is the parties at Stormont. A bunch of amateurs mostly incapable and sometimes afraid to make hard decisions. Health professionals have warned for years that we were heading straight for the cliffs, and here we are.
MR2 hit on it earlier - people here smoke, eat and drink too much and expect the healthcare system to step in and look after them free of charge. Lifestyle illnesses are costing billions each year. If there was a charge at point of use people might look after themselves a bit better. The number of obese people on the streets is wild.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 11:54:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 02, 2022, 11:31:03 PM
MR2 hit on it earlier - people here smoke, eat and drink too much and expect the healthcare system to step in and look after them free of charge. Lifestyle illnesses are costing billions each year. If there was a charge at point of use people might look after themselves a bit better. The number of obese people on the streets is wild.
That isn't a problem restricted to Nordieland though, it's the case in pretty much the whole of the developed world and even in parts of the developing world.
Thats what they say, it's all our fault yet the big food corporations employ scientists to make their crap hyperpalitable, moreish, addictable. All they have to do is add some vitamins and whole grains and it's a "healthy alternative". The saturated/polyunsaturated fat thing, food pyramid, it's mostly horse shit. "Everything is fine in moderation" is a bit like saying a wee drop of heroin now and again is grand. They make all this muck addictive, multi pack it, supersize it, bogof it, market it and then blame us for over consuming and getting sick.
https://youtu.be/TUADs-CK7vI
Watch this documentary, I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts.
Yes and it's mostly white chocolate that's doing the damage. White chocolate mice are delicious and sometimes I eat about 800 of them in one sitting and end up in ENT with a range of complications.
Quote from: Olly on December 03, 2022, 07:21:59 AM
Yes and it's mostly white chocolate that's doing the damage. White chocolate mice are delicious and sometimes I eat about 800 of them in one sitting and end up in ENT with a range of complications.
Santa will bring you one of these, maybe you've already got one!
https://amzn.eu/d/2jV9nGi
Quote from: Last Man on December 03, 2022, 07:11:36 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 11:54:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 02, 2022, 11:31:03 PM
MR2 hit on it earlier - people here smoke, eat and drink too much and expect the healthcare system to step in and look after them free of charge. Lifestyle illnesses are costing billions each year. If there was a charge at point of use people might look after themselves a bit better. The number of obese people on the streets is wild.
That isn't a problem restricted to Nordieland though, it's the case in pretty much the whole of the developed world and even in parts of the developing world.
Thats what they say, it's all our fault yet the big food corporations employ scientists to make their crap hyperpalitable, moreish, addictable. All they have to do is add some vitamins and whole grains and it's a "healthy alternative". The saturated/polyunsaturated fat thing, food pyramid, it's mostly horse shit. "Everything is fine in moderation" is a bit like saying a wee drop of heroin now and again is grand. They make all this muck addictive, multi pack it, supersize it, bogof it, market it and then blame us for over consuming and getting sick.
https://youtu.be/TUADs-CK7vI
Watch this documentary, I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts.
Great documentary. Corn syrup was the answer!
Once the science experts conned the public into believing the low fat/ high carb diet was the answer, the food industry had a ready made substitute (effectively a waste product) to bulk out the foods with and make them healthy!
Not necessarily true, I had bad asthma all my life, I. Recent yrs considerably worse, I look back and wonder how I could do sports, at all when I was younger, got a good enough lifestyle, barely drink, gym 3/4 times a week, but my weakness in my chest means I need to see a gp more often than most. It's impossible to get a appointment unless you half dying. 2nd time I got Covid I was off work 3, 1/2 months I was so unwell. Some people it's not lifestyle, just born with a bad weakness.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 11:01:32 AM
Not necessarily true, I had bad asthma all my life, I. Recent yrs considerably worse, I look back and wonder how I could do sports, at all when I was younger, got a good enough lifestyle, barely drink, gym 3/4 times a week, but my weakness in my chest means I need to see a gp more often than most. It's impossible to get a appointment unless you half dying. 2nd time I got Covid I was off work 3, 1/2 months I was so unwell. Some people it's not lifestyle, just born with a bad weakness.
Yes good point. I was thinking similar
People giving out about others always seeing their gp tend to be in good health themselves .
Yes there are some who never leave the surgery for trivial matters , but as you say , there are people who due to bad genes , a bad accident, emotional trauma from the troubles etc , need to probably see their gp more than the average person. It's not always a case of poor lifestyle.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 11:01:32 AM
Not necessarily true, I had bad asthma all my life, I. Recent yrs considerably worse, I look back and wonder how I could do sports, at all when I was younger, got a good enough lifestyle, barely drink, gym 3/4 times a week, but my weakness in my chest means I need to see a gp more often than most. It's impossible to get a appointment unless you half dying. 2nd time I got Covid I was off work 3, 1/2 months I was so unwell. Some people it's not lifestyle, just born with a bad weakness.
It plays a part yes but our standard diets have provoked an auto immune/ allergic explosion that exacerbates these chronic issues. Ever looked into an elimination diet to see how your asthma reacted. Some of these things can be environmental of course but diet is certainly a good place to start in terms of low hanging fruit.
The system is log jammed with an avoidable chronically diseased population, so when you need acute care it can't be had in any effective way.
Biggest issue with the North I believe is that across the board we want world class services. We want a world class health system, infrastructure, (roads, housing developments etc) schools and everything on our doorstep. Biggest problem is that we don't want to pay for it. God knows how much the health service needs to get back into shape, NIW state that they need two billion just to get up to standard. Yet if anyone dare mentions ways to fund this like water charges or streamline services we don't want to make the hard choices. We can't have it both ways looking a world class services without paying for it.
Same as the doctors and nurses you want more of them you gotta pay them to make them want to work in the industry.
Quote from: Twobounces on December 05, 2022, 09:03:02 PM
Biggest issue with the North I believe is that across the board we want world class services. We want a world class health system, infrastructure, (roads, housing developments etc) schools and everything on our doorstep. Biggest problem is that we don't want to pay for it. God knows how much the health service needs to get back into shape, NIW state that they need two billion just to get up to standard. Yet if anyone dare mentions ways to fund this like water charges or streamline services we don't want to make the hard choices. We can't have it both ways looking a world class services without paying for it.
Same as the doctors and nurses you want more of them you gotta pay them to make them want to work in the industry.
I think a massive issue is the money thats being wasted. Obvious, easy targets like MLA's still getting paid or the ridiculous ppe contracts the Tories gave their mates over covid. People are taxed enough.
In doctors today( bad chest again) I note there only bes a quarter of the people in from the time before Covid. They not simply not seeing people unless serious issues. Thing I note is that all who attended in my time there were all older that me (late 40's). Most were pensioner age.
Having dealing with NI water, the current systems (water courses, treatment plants in large towns are over capacity, some lies told these days to get housing developments passed). But country people can't even get a decent road network so why should they pay for Belfast with its pipe linings falling apart?
Quote from: Twobounces on December 05, 2022, 09:03:02 PM
Biggest issue with the North I believe is that across the board we want world class services. We want a world class health system, infrastructure, (roads, housing developments etc) schools and everything on our doorstep. Biggest problem is that we don't want to pay for it. God knows how much the health service needs to get back into shape, NIW state that they need two billion just to get up to standard. Yet if anyone dare mentions ways to fund this like water charges or streamline services we don't want to make the hard choices. We can't have it both ways looking a world class services without paying for it.
Same as the doctors and nurses you want more of them you gotta pay them to make them want to work in the industry.
The biggest issue with the north is the same as it is everywhere else in the western world: housing is a commodity which commands a substantial percentage of a worker's income, and as a result, the vast and increasing disparity between public and private sector pay is relegating senior public servants (such as doctors) to the lower middle classes.
Medicine was always a vocational career (long hours, lots of paperwork, lots of research, lots of dealing with unpleasantness) but always had enough trappings (financial and status) to ensure a throughput of smart, focused individuals. Fulfilling those obligations to live beside a junior software developer just wouldn't have the same appeal.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 06, 2022, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: Twobounces on December 05, 2022, 09:03:02 PM
Biggest issue with the North I believe is that across the board we want world class services. We want a world class health system, infrastructure, (roads, housing developments etc) schools and everything on our doorstep. Biggest problem is that we don't want to pay for it. God knows how much the health service needs to get back into shape, NIW state that they need two billion just to get up to standard. Yet if anyone dare mentions ways to fund this like water charges or streamline services we don't want to make the hard choices. We can't have it both ways looking a world class services without paying for it.
Same as the doctors and nurses you want more of them you gotta pay them to make them want to work in the industry.
The biggest issue with the north is the same as it is everywhere else in the western world: housing is a commodity which commands a substantial percentage of a worker's income, and as a result, the vast and increasing disparity between public and private sector pay is relegating senior public servants (such as doctors) to the lower middle classes.
Medicine was always a vocational career (long hours, lots of paperwork, lots of research, lots of dealing with unpleasantness) but always had enough trappings (financial and status) to ensure a throughput of smart, focused individuals. Fulfilling those obligations to live beside a junior software developer just wouldn't have the same appeal.
I know a GP who is giving that up for doing cosmetics and wax removal, is making a hell of a lot more money than being a locum GP with absolutely no hassle either, the status may nave been a thing back in the 80's but the reality is completely different now.
The private sector is the please to be if you are a doctor, no question