All Ireland Football Final 2017 Mayo V Dublin

[Lar Naparka]

I'm only going by the TV clip, but was the Dubs' cynicism at the end as bad as suggested? I think Ciaran Kilkenny got involved with Keegan, possibly after noticing Keegan throw the GPS at Dean Rock. Other than that I don't see anything too outrageous. Then again, Cormac Costello was acting the maggot I suppose.

Well spotted. I was quite close to that incident.

I'm sure you are both right.
He just had to be appalled at the heinousness of Keegan's attempt to obstruct a free taker. Such behavious is strictly forbidden in Dublin circles, isn't it? And I suppose Costello removed Clarke's tee because it might be a danger to life and limb if it remained where it was.  And he was also thoughtful enough to go and take Clarke's other tees and fecked them away also in case the wind blew them onto the pitch.
And the rest?
They just wished to communicate their shock and outrage at Keegan's ignoble act and inform their opponents that they would never sink to that base level.


Will ya get up the bleedin' yard, the pair of ya? 

When COC was taking his free kick in injury time I don't remember anything getting thrown at him.  It's amazing how all Mayo fans seem to think any player would do this when NO ONE has ever done it before.

The cynicism in the SECOND last kick out from the dublin players is common throughout the GAA and while not right it is something any player would do.  At least Clarke got to have another go, but I'm sure that it was Dublin's fault he kicked it over the sideline as well

You got it in one brother. 
That's all I was attempting to highlight. What Keegan, Costello, Kilkenny and just about everyone else on the field would stop  at nothing to win that game.
Concentrating on Keegan while ignoring what the opposition was up to is a bit unfair, isn't it?

[Beffs]

You got it in one brother. 
That's all I was attempting to highlight. What Keegan, Costello, Kilkenny and just about everyone else on the field would stop  at nothing to win that game.
Concentrating on Keegan while ignoring what the opposition was up to is a bit unfair, isn't it?

I dunno. Taken as a whole, there seems to be far more attention on what the Dublin players were up to at the end of the game, than what Lee Keegan did. Listening to radio coverage (Off The Ball, Paul Kimmage creating a big stink, Eamon Dunphy weighing in etc) and reading the print media, there seems to be a lot more focus on Dublin's cynicism that Lee Keegans throwing his GPS at Dean Rock. Dublin winning the three in a row seems to have been forgotten about, in a rush to tar and feather them for deeds that were were just as cynical as those that Mayo engaged in back in 2012, when they needed to do what was needed to close out a win over Dublin. The fact that Lee Keegan did something so cynical and sneaky (not to mention being very, very unbecoming of the reigning Footballer of The Year) is getting mentioned as a mere after thought, if it gets mentioned at all. Charlie Redmond had a bit of a go, but it never gathered half as much steam as the media crusade that Paul Kimmage is going on.

When you mention Keegan's and Costello's deeds to a Mayo or Dublin fan, they are quick to play the whataboutery game. It would be nice to see both of them admit that what happened was very bad sportsmanship on both sides and leave it at that. No excuses of "you do what you have to do, to win the game"  or " if I was in his place, I'd do the very same thing." Just have the honesty to admit that it was what it was and stop playing the victim card. Leave the outraged sanctimony at being accused of not being as pure as the driven snow, at the door. No one is buying it anymore.

[magpie seanie]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

[criostlinn]

I think ye are totally missing the point

Most Mayo fans I know have moved on from the All Ireland final and cannot wait for 2018. We know the limitations we had as to why we didn't get over the line this year and hope we can address them in 2018

No doubt what Lee Keegan did was cynical and could have been very costly if the referee had seen it. Although it wasn't the most difficult kick in the world for Rock, if it had been moved in it would have been a cert. It definitely isn't something anyone wants to see in the game no matter if an All Ireland is at stake or the first round of a club championship. But the thing is there are rules to stop it.

Trying to say that Dublin players wouldn't do the same is just nonsense. Philly McMahon, a man who is known to engage in any dark art to win a game has already said he would have thrown his jersey at Rock if he thought it would be an advantage.  He probably didn't do it to Cillian O'Connor because he presumed if caught it would only be making the free easier.

But the whole debate about the way Dublin finished the game is another topic altogether. If Cillian O'Connor had put that free over, id expect the Mayo players to do the exact same thing as Dublin did and if we won an All Ireland I'd have no problem sucking up the flak that came with it. I know full well it wouldn't be right but sure fcuk it "you do what you have to do" 

So why are Dublin so upset now when called out on it. Grand you do what you have to do to win the game but surely you have to accept the stick that comes with it. Dublin supporters are the first on the high horse when another team does something like this. You still hear some of them harping on about 2012 semi but in the 2013 final it was all the referees fault. The 5 All Ireland's aren't enough. We must accept they are the greatest team ever, they have the greatest individual footballers ever, they play the greatest brand of football ever and of course they wouldn't even dream as stooping so low as to engage in the type of cynical football others engage in. They don't like any media coverage that may suggest different. 

A black card was brought in to deal with this kind of thing and it obviously doesn't work. Despite Sean Cavanagh getting the blame the black card was introduced after the 2012 semi and the 2013 final. People shrugged their shoulders at the end of these games and said the same as they are saying now. "You do what you have to do". A half arsed effort was brought in to deal with but as this years final shows it was pointless.

So we are at a stage that we just accept that this is part of the game or do we deal with it by bringing in new rules to stop it. It looks like a lot of people want to bury their head in the sand and get on with it. That's all fine and well until the day the roles are reversed and you come out of the game shaking your in frustration that such a great game can end up in such a farce because rules aren't there or aren't  been enforced to stop it happening.

[Mac2]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

Always ready to stick the boot in as per usual.

[Tubberman]

I think ye are totally missing the point

Most Mayo fans I know have moved on from the All Ireland final and cannot wait for 2018. We know the limitations we had as to why we didn't get over the line this year and hope we can address them in 2018

No doubt what Lee Keegan did was cynical and could have been very costly if the referee had seen it. Although it wasn't the most difficult kick in the world for Rock, if it had been moved in it would have been a cert. It definitely isn't something anyone wants to see in the game no matter if an All Ireland is at stake or the first round of a club championship. But the thing is there are rules to stop it.

Trying to say that Dublin players wouldn't do the same is just nonsense. Philly McMahon, a man who is known to engage in any dark art to win a game has already said he would have thrown his jersey at Rock if he thought it would be an advantage.  He probably didn't do it to Cillian O'Connor because he presumed if caught it would only be making the free easier.

But the whole debate about the way Dublin finished the game is another topic altogether. If Cillian O'Connor had put that free over, id expect the Mayo players to do the exact same thing as Dublin did and if we won an All Ireland I'd have no problem sucking up the flak that came with it. I know full well it wouldn't be right but sure fcuk it "you do what you have to do" 

So why are Dublin so upset now when called out on it. Grand you do what you have to do to win the game but surely you have to accept the stick that comes with it. Dublin supporters are the first on the high horse when another team does something like this. You still hear some of them harping on about 2012 semi but in the 2013 final it was all the referees fault. The 5 All Ireland's aren't enough. We must accept they are the greatest team ever, they have the greatest individual footballers ever, they play the greatest brand of football ever and of course they wouldn't even dream as stooping so low as to engage in the type of cynical football others engage in. They don't like any media coverage that may suggest different. 

A black card was brought in to deal with this kind of thing and it obviously doesn't work. Despite Sean Cavanagh getting the blame the black card was introduced after the 2012 semi and the 2013 final. People shrugged their shoulders at the end of these games and said the same as they are saying now. "You do what you have to do". A half arsed effort was brought in to deal with but as this years final shows it was pointless.

So we are at a stage that we just accept that this is part of the game or do we deal with it by bringing in new rules to stop it. It looks like a lot of people want to bury their head in the sand and get on with it. That's all fine and well until the day the roles are reversed and you come out of the game shaking your in frustration that such a great game can end up in such a farce because rules aren't there or aren't  been enforced to stop it happening.

Well said. Mayo people aren't crying about the final - we've accepted we lost, no problem there.
Dublin just need to be able to accept their team are as cynical as Mayo and everyone else. Just because they won doesn't mean they are without sin and can be absolved of all wrong doings. Mayo would probably have done the same thing in the same position, and I'd be happy if they had.

[Lar Naparka]

You got it in one brother. 
That's all I was attempting to highlight. What Keegan, Costello, Kilkenny and just about everyone else on the field would stop  at nothing to win that game.
Concentrating on Keegan while ignoring what the opposition was up to is a bit unfair, isn't it?

I dunno. Taken as a whole, there seems to be far more attention on what the Dublin players were up to at the end of the game, than what Lee Keegan did. Listening to radio coverage (Off The Ball, Paul Kimmage creating a big stink, Eamon Dunphy weighing in etc) and reading the print media, there seems to be a lot more focus on Dublin's cynicism that Lee Keegans throwing his GPS at Dean Rock. Dublin winning the three in a row seems to have been forgotten about, in a rush to tar and feather them for deeds that were were just as cynical as those that Mayo engaged in back in 2012, when they needed to do what was needed to close out a win over Dublin. The fact that Lee Keegan did something so cynical and sneaky (not to mention being very, very unbecoming of the reigning Footballer of The Year) is getting mentioned as a mere after thought, if it gets mentioned at all. Charlie Redmond had a bit of a go, but it never gathered half as much steam as the media crusade that Paul Kimmage is going on.

When you mention Keegan's and Costello's deeds to a Mayo or Dublin fan, they are quick to play the whataboutery game. It would be nice to see both of them admit that what happened was very bad sportsmanship on both sides and leave it at that. No excuses of "you do what you have to do, to win the game"  or " if I was in his place, I'd do the very same thing." Just have the honesty to admit that it was what it was and stop playing the victim card. Leave the outraged sanctimony at being accused of not being as pure as the driven snow, at the door. No one is buying it anymore.

Well, one thing I can't be accused of is "outraged sanctimony." I made it clear right from the end of the game that both sides were each as cynical as the other.
You may feel that the media is concentrating too much on what a number of Dublin players did towards the end of the game and ignoring Leeroy's transgression.
I actually think that you are right on that one - right now. But that was not, definitely not, the case n the aftermath of the game. Social media was full of abuse for Keegan and there was little or no criticism of Kilkenny, Costello, Rock and the rest.

I also don't see every, or indeed any, Mayo poster here backing what Keegan did, without at least putting it in context.
I have a habit of looking around me when play is at one end, if you follow me.
If the action is at one end, I'll take a quick look down the field. This can be very instructive when I take my eye off the ball.
In my considered opinion both teams spent a lot of time, niggllng, pushing and apparently sledging away happily.
Fact is that all inter county teams are driven to this by the relentless pressure to win and win at all costs. You can thank us all, the general public, for this.
Don't point talking crap about teams resorting to blanket defenses either. Managers will pile everyone into the large square for the duration of the game, if needs be.
It's easy to talk about Dublin's free flowing attractive football and wonder why every other teams don't do the same. FFS, they can't because they don't have the players or the S&C facilities etc. to do this.
Anyone talking about star players acting as role models for kids is away with the fairies. I don't like it but I can't do anything about it.
My estimate is that it will take the best part of a million to prepare any team to the stage that they can give the Dubs a run for their money so they have to resort to spoiler tactics and hope to score on quick breakaways. Bit like soccer tactics at times.

[magpie seanie]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

Always ready to stick the boot in as per usual.

Yeah, there we go. Focus on me rather than the point at hand.

[Mac2]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

Always ready to stick the boot in as per usual.

Yeah, there we go. Focus on me rather than the point at hand.

I don't consider it a point, just a trite inane comment that gives you the opportunity to weigh in.

[magpie seanie]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

Always ready to stick the boot in as per usual.

Yeah, there we go. Focus on me rather than the point at hand.

I don't consider it a point, just a trite inane comment that gives you the opportunity to weigh in.

Therein lies the problem.

[Mac2]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

Always ready to stick the boot in as per usual.

Yeah, there we go. Focus on me rather than the point at hand.

I don't consider it a point, just a trite inane comment that gives you the opportunity to weigh in.

Therein lies the problem.

It's a problem alright when people throw out handy one-liners with no basis in fact to suit their own negative agenda.

[Lar Naparka]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

[/b]
Indeed Seanie, that's news to me. Maybe you'd list a few of them.

[magpie seanie]

That's Mayo's biggest issue, blame everyone and everything but themselves. Sad really.

That has always been their problem. The lost many All Ireland's to teams much worse that Dublin.

[/b]
Indeed Seanie, that's news to me. Maybe you'd list a few of them.

With pleasure.

Meath 1996.
Kerry 1997.
Cork 1989.
Donegal 2012.

I'd personally be of the opinion that this Dublin team (2013/2016/2017) are probably better than Kerry of 2004/2006 but I accept it's debatable.

[Orchard park]

Magpie Sean  4, lar na pairce 0

[macdanger2]

Lár, are you not old enough to know not to engage with the clowns still hanging around in here ffs?

The match is over a fortnight now, time to move on