FIFA eligibility- new and re-worded

[Main Street]

It's not that I "don't understand it", it's that I simply don't know whether it's true.
Neither do you.

Id say speak for yourself, you have demonstrated a very limited grasp of legalities.
Unlike you I am not interested in truths or belief systems.
I am into the methods of legal interpretation.

I see that you were the one from the OWC who didn't have a clue about the Annex criteria circular 901 and persisted with some really unintelligible pedantic argument that were close to lunacy.

No matter how many times you say it, you don't actually have anything from FIFA saying that's the case

FIFA have said it ------ wait for it  ----- it's all in the eligibility statutes
The rest is understanding what is Dual Nationality and what are the components of the British Nationality Act that defines the legal status of Northern Ireland.

Why the feck would FIFA have to explain the British Nationality Act?
You are supposed to know that one.

Go and discuss it on the OWC site.
I'm sure that Moore lad can answer the question that you appear to be afraid to ask there.
There is nothing more that can be discussed here.

[MW]

It's not that I "don't understand it", it's that I simply don't know whether it's true.
Neither do you.

Id say speak for yourself, you have demonstrated a very limited grasp of legalities.

I understand both the British Nationality Act and the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act. What exactly has 'demonstrated' that I don't?

Unlike you I am not interested in truths

I said that what you said isn't true. You're not interested in that?

Then what on earth is the point of your contribution?

I am into the methods of legal interpretation.

Are you indeed? (A lawyer then, are you?) Where are you getting your "legal interpretation" from and why is it more valid than anyone elses?

I see that you were the one from the OWC who didn't have a clue about the Annex criteria circular 901 and persisted with some really unintelligible pedantic argument that were close to lunacy.

I really have no idea what you're talking about here

FIFA have said it ------ wait for it  ----- it's all in the eligibility statutes

No it isn't. They do not once mention Northern Ireland, you're applying your "interpretation" of the global rules to the NI case.

The rest is understanding what is Dual Nationality

That really doesn't require much understanding, does it? (in the case of Northern Ireland, it normally means a person holding both British and Irish citizenship.) The fact that someone's a dual national isn't relevant to whether they can play for Northern Ireland, or indeedwhether they can play for the Republic of Ireland

and what are the components of the British Nationality Act that defines the legal status of Northern Ireland.

Oh dear oh dear. The British Nationality Act 1981 does not define the legal status of Northern Ireland (and never has). The Northern Ireland Act 1998 does. (Before that, it was the Northern Ireland (Constitution) Act 1873, prior to that the Ireland Act 1949, prior to that the Government of Ireland Act 1920.) Your "legal interpretation" is pretty poor.

Why the feck would FIFA have to explain the British Nationality Act?

They wouldn't.

You are supposed to know that one.

I do.

Go and discuss it on the OWC site.

I'll discuss it on any board I'm a member of that I fancy joining a discussion on, thank you very much.

I'm sure that Moore lad can answer the question that you appear to be afraid to ask there.

Again I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. What "question"?

I've joined discussion with mooretwin on Irish League Supporters days ago, just to let since you're so interested in interaction between us. And I'm sure you'll be chuffed to know he thanked me for this post (which was directed to another user):

"The legal position is that everyone born in the UK before 1983 is automatically a UK citizen. And everyone born in the UK after 1983 is automatically a UK citizen, if at least one parent was a UK citizen, or a parent was "settled" in the UK when they were born (and Irish citizens living in the UK are automatically regarded under UK law as "settled").

(Whereas under RoI law, anyone born on the island of Ireland before 2005 (I think) or after 2005 meeting similar conditions with regards to parents, is entitled to Irish citizenship).

Which legally, couldn't really be any other way. How could the UK rule out a section of its natives from citizenship, and on what basis?"

There is nothing more that can be discussed here.

You could perhaps explain your baffling comments about me above.

[Main Street]

MW when a poster chops up another's post to reply they usually have lost the plot.

Now you are trolling for attention, instead of trying to understand the FIFA statutes of eligibility.
Back to where you started in this thread.

No attempt to understand, just a persistance to go around in circles

That may well be regarded as heroic internet discussion in some parts.
Here in this thread it is plain immature trolling.

[MW]

MW when a poster chops up another's post to reply they usually have lost the plot.

Now you are trolling for attention, instead of trying to understand the FIFA statutes of eligibility.
Back to where you started in this thread.

No attempt to understand, just a persistance to go around in circles

That may well be regarded as heroic internet discussion in some parts.
Here in this thread it is plain immature trolling.

No attempt to explain where you think I haven't understood the British Nationality Act? No attempt to explain your comment "I see you were the one from OWC...[etc]"?

Please explain these comments. Refusing to is pretty immature.

As for "where i started on this thread". You pulled my name into the thread on page 7. From nowhere. I hadn't a clue what you were getting at or why you'd brought me into it (care to explain?I simply gave my own opinion as to what the issue boils down to. That was it. Didn't say anyone's vew was right or wrong, didn't say that anyone was ineligible to play for the Republic of Ireland. And for this crime I was harangued by you in a pretty disgraceful and "immature" way (including making the unfounded slur that it's "like sunlight on the skin of a vampire" to me that some people from have full Irish nationality - what the hell was that about? Trying the old 'ah he's a unionist, must be an oppressor and also a bit thick' attitude there? Or what? ).

I've said what I think the eligibility issue boils down to with regardes to players from NI and the RoI team. I've not plumped for a "side" in the argument. Yet still I've been hectored and attacked by you for such thungs as refusing to accept people's Irish nationality (wrong), dual nationality (wrong) and not understanding the British Nationality Act (wrong again, in fact I must be one of the few members of this or indeed any other message board who's actually read it...)

[Main Street]

No attempt to explain where you think I haven't understood the British Nationality Act? No attempt to explain your comment

1. NI has only one Nationality as defined under the British Nationality Act.

2. FIFA do not define a countries nationality, never have.

3. FIFA define a quality of nationality that is acceptable under article 15.

4. Knowledge of the British nationality act would tell you that Irish nationality is not a factor in the British Nationality Act.
Irish nationality has feck all to do with NI.

And now you want FIFA to say that fact

"I see you were the one from OWC...[etc]"?
b]Please explain these comments[/b]. Refusing to is pretty immature.

The one who went around in circles  on the Annex Circular 901

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg216914#msg216914

and still are.

[MW]

No attempt to explain where you think I haven't understood the British Nationality Act? No attempt to explain your comment

1. NI has only one Nationality as defined under the British Nationality Act.

I know this. I also know the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act applies to almost everyone from Northern Ireland and I'm not sure how FIFA views this.

2. FIFA do not define a countries nationality, never have.

They do however define someone's eligibility to play for a team, which is what this is all about.

3. FIFA define a quality of nationality that is acceptable under article 15.

And 16.

4. Knowledge of the British nationality act would tell you that Irish nationality is not a factor in the British Nationality Act.

Where on earth have I said or even given the impression that it is??

Irish nationality has feck all to do with NI.

Well not quite. I'm entitled to Irish citizenship simply by being born in Northern Ireland.

And now you want FIFA to say that fact

Thanks for trying to tell me what I want, but actually, no, I don't.

"I see you were the one from OWC...[etc]"?
b]Please explain these comments[/b]. Refusing to is pretty immature.

The one who went around in circles  on the Annex Circular 901

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.msg216914#msg216914

and still are.

[/quote]

I didn't "go round in circles". You failed time after time after time after time (ad nauseum) to understand that the issue wasn't about someone assuming a new nationality, despite my repeated efforts to explain this to you.

Now you've managed to grasp this. Well done. You've now grasped that the issue is actually about a nationality qualifying a player to play for more than one team. Again, well done. I think I can claim some of the credit for you getting there in the end.

Now you're stuck on the problem that you think that your opinion is shared by FIFA. Maybe it is, but you dont actually know this, and neither do I.

Still don't know why you dragged me into this thread in the first place, BTW.

[Main Street]

You've now grasped that the issue is actually about a nationality qualifying a player to play for more than one team. Again, well done. I think I can claim some of the credit for you getting there in the end.

It might be your issue
But it isn't the issue in the case of Irish Nationals born anywhere on this Island. Irish nationality will not qualify anyone to play for any other association but the Republic.
never has. That's a certainty.

[MW]

You've now grasped that the issue is actually about a nationality qualifying a player to play for more than one team. Again, well done. I think I can claim some of the credit for you getting there in the end.

It might be your issue
But it isn't the issue in the case of Irish Nationals born anywhere on this Island. Irish nationality will not qualify anyone to play for any other association but the Republic.
never has. That's a certainty.

It's likely but is can't be classed as a certainty since FIFA haven't publicly spelled out how exactly they rule on the eligibility of Northern Ireland players using Irish passports.

[Main Street]

You've now grasped that the issue is actually about a nationality qualifying a player to play for more than one team. Again, well done. I think I can claim some of the credit for you getting there in the end.

It might be your issue
But it isn't the issue in the case of Irish Nationals born anywhere on this Island. Irish nationality will not qualify anyone to play for any other association but the Republic.
never has. That's a certainty.

It's likely but is can't be classed as a certainty since FIFA haven't publicly spelled out how exactly they rule on the eligibility of Northern Ireland players using Irish passports.

Likely? 

Unless there is an article/addendum/annex to the contrary, then the FIFA rules of eligibility applies.
A player has to have the nationality of the country before he can play for them.

There is no document anywhere saying that an Irish national can play for NI.
FIFA is an organisation bound by its constitution.






 

[SammyG]

FFS main street can you please make your mind up. That's now three complete different (and contradictory) stances that you've taken, on this thread alone. Everytime it's pointed out that you're talki ng sh1te, you just reply with a totally different argument. 

[Main Street]

Ah, Sammy the man with the argument he can't define.

The last time you were here  you wrote to me

"Make your f**king mind up. Mooretwin believes that everbody in NI has dual nationality (I don't agree with him but that's a different discussion) and therefore the dual nationality rules apply. You have been arguing that Article 15 applies, which has absoultely nothing to do with dual nationality. "


You do realise that Mooretwin has actually argued that article 15 applies because of the dual nationality , don't you remember you actually stated that he argued the very point.

You asked him
"Why do you keep stating that the dual nationality rules (article 15) apply, when the players involved don't have dual nationality?"

Mooretwin replied
"Er, because they do have dual nationality, Sammy,  Didn't you read my posts last night?"

"Article 16 doesn't apply because the players in question have dual nationality"



Have you not gone back to that thread and clarified the situation.
It looks crystal clear that Mooretwin is saying that article 15 applies because of the dual nationality and Article 16 does not apply.

I think you should do that Sammy before coming on here.

[SammyG]

Brilliant response which totally fails to address the issue (as usual). Have you now changed your mind (for the fourth time) and decided that the issue is dual nationality? It's a bit hard to argue with somebody who changes their mind after every post.

[Main Street]

Simply  for you Sammy
My position is now and always has been

1. for northern born Irish nationals, the issue is dual nationality  -- article 15  applies
2. all irish nationals born on the island of ireland --- article 15 applies

3. For NI  UK Nationals - article 16 applies,  One  UK nationality  ----  four federations.
(almost all born in NI are UK nationals)

4. Old annex criteria circular 901 ----   article  17

5. Changing a federation   -----      article 18

[aontroim]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16965522

Nigel Dodds calls for talks over football eligibility

A DUP MP has said the British and Irish governments should hold talks to stop footballers from Northern Ireland opting to play for the Republic.

North Belfast MP Nigel Dodds was speaking at Westminster as MPs debated the issue of governance in football.

The DUP Deputy leader said "action needs to be taken to stop the haemorrhaging of talent from Northern Ireland".

He said there needed to a "higher discussion about this".

The British and Irish governments should get together to address an "injustice", he added.

He also called on Uefa and Fifa to re-examine the issue which he claimed uniquely affected Northern Ireland.

A ruling by football's governing body Fifa allows players from the island of Ireland to choose which national side they represent providing they have not played for the other in a competitive senior international.

The Good Friday Agreement provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

In July 2010, the Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled against the Irish Football Association's bid to prevent more Northern Ireland-born players opting for the Republic.

Speaking in Westminster to the BBC, Mr Dodds, who takes an interest in football matters as a long-suffering Everton fan, said the ruling needs to be overturned.

He said "the real problem is that the Northern Ireland team will suffer badly if this rule remains in place".

In recent times, several Northern Ireland-born players have opted to pay for the Republic.

These include Everton's Darron Gibson, Stoke's Marc Wilson and Preston North End's Daniel Devine.

Sunderland's rising star James McClean is another who chose to play for Giovanni Trapattoni's team rather than Northern Ireland.

McClean, who has made headlines after moving from Derry City, is hoping to press a claim for a place in the Euro 2012 finals.

The debate about player eligibility has rarely been out of the headlines in recent months and naturally divides opinion in Northern Ireland.

Those in favour of maintaining the status quo argue that it is up to each footballer to decide which country he plays for.

They also argue that a players right to pay for the Republic is enshrined in law.

Last month, the new Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill spoke about the issue.

He said: "A lot of these lads have played their youth football in Northern Ireland, they have played representative for Northern Ireland at under age level."

The former Shamrock Rovers boss added: "It is important we look after these players and mentor them so they see the benefit of having a long and distinguished career with Northern Ireland as opposed to possibly being on the fringes of the Republic of Ireland squad."

Last year, in a BBC Radio Ulster documentary entitled 'Does the Cap Fit' Northern Ireland football legend Gerry Armstrong claimed there was evidence that teenage players from north of the border were being approached to play for the Republic of Ireland.

Mr Armstrong said players as young as 15 were being approached. The Football Association of Ireland said it was not involved.

[deiseach]

So the way to stop people wanting to take a certain course of action is to ban it. Hearts and minds, eh?