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The level against the grants can be accurately guaged by the poor showing at the elk last week. That is the true barometer, 400 odd gaa men out of how many 1000,s of members...that was the height of the real depth of feeling. i think a few posters on here hardly represents the entire Gaa family. Billy were you at the ELK

So the various county boards voting against it are also irrelevant.


Actually, has any county board voted for it yet?

I would not be so worried about the number of people interested in inter county matches, as the number of people that don't want to cut the grass, fix the catch wire, sell the tickets, train the U-12s, join the county board etc etc.



Its all those little cogs (ok, some bigger than others) that the GAA rely on to run smoothly. If enough of those people become disenchanted with the whole thing, then there is a real problem.



The players are not the foundations of the GAA - its everyone else pitching in their time voluntarily to organise things around the players that is. I know on first glance that sounds stupid, but you look at all the amateur soccer leagues the length of the country, there isn't a shortage of players, but there is a shortage of good pitches, referees, changing rooms, organised youth structures within every parish etc etc etc.

Now some on here will have you believe that this is already professionalism and will quote dictionaries to prove it. But this isn't professionalism

So the dictionary is wrong?



Maybe that will be Dessie's next step - change the definition of professionalism so the IC players will think they are still 'amateur'. 

Explain this please. If not, give it a year or two and come back on here.

When you post

Anyone with Tyrone GAA at heart will not be affected, especially after the dust has settled and the red mist clears.

You are clearly implying that those leaving as a result of the grant aren't protesting for the good of the GAA or are somehow less committed to the ideals of the GAA.

Indeed, it is somewhat ironic that you are questioning the commitment of people opposed to any volunteer receiving money for their time.

Anyone with Tyrone GAA at heart will not be affected, especially after the dust has settled and the red mist clears.

I find your assumption that the grants scheme is good for the wider GAA within Tyrone as extremely arrogant and misguided.

bit of a drama queen? and the GPA aren't- you're some hyprocrite. Threatening to go on strike unless you get your way is what i'd call being  a drama queen and throwing your toys out of the pram.

sssssshhhhhhh 

A GOOD friend of mine has already been offered double his grant total if he will turn it down officially and say publicly its because he feels it's against the ethos of the GAA.

I'm sure (seeing as you seem to present yourself as the self-appointed adjudicator of post quality on here) you'll actually provide some verifiable evidence of this.

[Definition of professional:3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.]

Ok FTJC, if my head is in the sand, can you explain to me how professionalism can be foisted upon the GAA membership without their approval, and please don't point to this grant as something that went against grassroots opinion. Because there is a world of differnce between a grant of €3k from the government and the GAA paying players a living wage for playing football/hurling. If as you say this is the beginning then you must have some idea as to how it can go forward.

I know you wrote this after I posted a dictionary definition of professional.

Perhaps your memory is blurred.

Definition of professional:
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.

So, how exactly are IC players not going to be (semi) professional?


Again, your point regarding where things go from here - I put forward local rugby as an example, perhaps you forgot about it as well.

But if the government want to pay them great.

Do you honestly think that money comes for free? From the big money tree that is the government?


A doctors surgery, hospital beds, gardai, improved roads, more teachers... that is what is being sacrificed to pay these players....

-or-

The government just takes it out of the annual grants it gives to the GAA directly - thus the GAA would be indirectly paying the players.

His drive was crucial from 95-03 but it's such as well oiled machine now that he'll not be missed.

You assume that no other cogs will be sickened by this.

[3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.]

Ok so, I've asked this numerous times already and no-one in the anti-GPA ranks has even attempted an answer. If you fear that this may lead to the ruination of the GAA by turning the organisation professional. How can this happen, unless a 2/3 majority of the members of the GAA want the organisation to go professional? And if the vast majority want to the GAA to go professional then that is the democratic will of the members of the GAA. Unless ANYONE (I swore I'd never used caps to make a point, but ye have driven me to it lads) can lay out the path to professionalism for the GAA, then you just sound like a bunch of Al Gores trying to catch man-bear-pig before it destroys the world. (It's a South Park episode for non-fans)

Definition of professional:

1.
a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
4. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.


Question: Are inter county footballers going to be receiving pay for training/playing?


This deal will result in inter-county players becoming semi-professional, you can run around with semantics until your blue in the face but that is the bottom line.




Dress the "grants" up whatever way you want, but it creates a division between the inter-county player and the county board member/the club player/the club member.

They will be thinking to themselves, "why bother?" "Why should I put my time in when I'm not getting renumeration?"

If you honestly think that won't be the case, perhaps you'll explain the changes in local rugby when it turned professional.

Would it be fair enough to say that the main reason many people are angry and disappointed is because the GPA threw a strop with their strike threat, and the GAA leadership gave in straight away.

No, at least, thats not the case for me.

The strike threat disgusted me, but its not the big issue here.

And that the principle of the govt grant, while it may be seen as an unwise move, is almost secondary to the anger that GPA could hold the organisation to ransom with their strike threat?

Definitely not. I fear this may lead the GAA down the same path as soccer/rugby - that is a far far bigger problem in my eyes than a silly little strike.

Would you take the grant if offered?

Possibly.


But I wouldn't demand to be paid for training/playing either.

This is their idea of being forward thinking - will the referees be looking for more money for a change in their working conditions ?? 

No - they will be looking for a quota scheme based on the number of cards they hand out.

No cash - no cards 

(1) Do you believe that top GAA players should be out of pocket for representing their county?

No. I would say that alot of players benefit from playing IC football, socially and monetarily.

(2) Do you object to top administrators in the GAA being paid six figure salaries?

Yes I object, also who is paid that much?

(3) Can the GAA afford to "pay" top players?

No. One look at the state of local soccer or club rugby highlights just how devastating that route will be.

(4) Do you think we should treat our top players less well than the FAI or IFA or IRFU?

Outside of receiving a wage we treat our players every bit as well as the IRFU or FAI/IFA, indeed probably better.

(5) Do our top players train less or give less commitment than an IFA or FAI player?

They train less but are more committed.

If you think its Ok to pay administrators but not players please explain why

Administrators typically work a full 40 hour week. If a player is training 3 hours a night 5 days a week, that is still only 15 hours. Add on another 5 for each day of the weekend and that is 25 hours. I'll also say that those figures are unrealistic as a typically training session is under 2 hours, and a match under 2 hours.

A more realistic figure is 15 hours a week max (2x5 hrs weeknights and 2x2 weekends). Since travel expenses are paid you cannot use that time.

Has anyone in the GPA ever asked the GAA to do something about the high profile managers and the ridiculously arduous and long winded training methods being employed these days?

The problem is in the last few years inter county training has spawned a mini industry in the fitrness world and i feel the GPA are trying to push the association down a route where we pay players instead of stepping back and saying hold on a second there's no need for guys to be doing organised 4-nights-a-week training 8 months before they kick a ball in the championship.

Exactly.

As I see it that is the real problem, and some pittance "grants" (in the real world these payments are token gestures - although highly symbolic and controversial) are not going to change that.