gaaboard.com

GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: AZOffaly on October 11, 2017, 01:51:42 PM

Title: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 11, 2017, 01:51:42 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Boycey on October 11, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
I’d be biased I suppose as I’m a club man of Paraic’s but I think he’s been really good in his time in the job. I’d expect this thread to soon descend into a ‘fcuk him all he was interested in was the money’ slagging match. I’ve always thought he was in a damned if he did and damned if he didn’t situation with the changes that have occurred as the game hurtles towards semi professionalism.

Whatever people think about the job he did I can tell you he’s a serious grassroots football man at the back of it all.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 11, 2017, 02:06:56 PM
It would be crazy to think the association could run smoothly WITHOUT a clever business brain behind it all. I just feel the balance was skewed towards revenue generation, without necessarily considering the competition or participation effects. When your job is to look after the business of the GAA, that's probably only natural, but I'd have hoped the other cheques and balances would have kept things tighter.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 11, 2017, 02:15:55 PM
This better not be clearing the way for McKenna to take over.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: magpie seanie on October 11, 2017, 02:16:09 PM
I completely agree with AZ. I feel his tenure greatly facilitated the drift to elitism and professionalism and ignored the needs of the grassroots. That's not something I agree with or want so I don't have good feelings about his time in that most important role.

The list of potential successors mentioned by Heffo here recently scares me. Especially now that it would seem Pat Gilroy is off the pitch. McKenna would be a disaster in my view.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 11, 2017, 03:47:34 PM
I don't see many clever business moves. A child could have dreamt up the Super 8 as a way to generate a cheap boost in revenue to cover for falling attendances. It shows no imagination at all, and that has typifies his tenure, leaving the sport deep in a mire of haves and have nots that is affecting interest in it throughout the country.

History won't judge his era kindly.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
A great man God bless him.
Sorry to see him go but the good ship GAA coped with the loss of Ó Caoimh,  Ó Síocháin and Liam Mulvihill and she'll continue to sail onwards and upwards.
Many long and happy years Paraic.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: rosnarun on October 11, 2017, 04:33:10 PM
I don't see many clever business moves. A child could have dreamt up the Super 8 as a way to generate cheap boost in revenue to cover for falling attendances. It shows no imagination at all, and that has typifies his tenure.

History won't judge his era kindly.
the inevitable character assassination begins . hell be the devils spawn before some mod closes the thread
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2017, 04:44:31 PM
It must be great to be as knowledgeable as Syfīn and to have the talent to be always right about everything all the time.
I presume the GAA will be appointing him to replace Paraic immediately.... unless he's too busy sorting out North Korea, Catalunya, Palestine,  Syria etc etc etc
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 11, 2017, 04:45:30 PM
I don't see many clever business moves. A child could have dreamt up the Super 8 as a way to generate cheap boost in revenue to cover for falling attendances. It shows no imagination at all, and that has typifies his tenure.

History won't judge his era kindly.
the inevitable character assassination begins . hell be the devils spawn before some mod closes the thread

The fact you, a seeming apologist for him, knew it was inevitable he’d be strongly criticised says enough about his reign in itself.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 11, 2017, 05:07:34 PM
Not before time. A legacy left behind of making the strong stronger and weak weaker. Was like a dog with a bone forever determined to get his way. Knowing the GAA HQ His replacement will likely be no better.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on October 11, 2017, 05:16:01 PM
I’d be biased I suppose as I’m a club man of Paraic’s but I think he’s been really good in his time in the job. I’d expect this thread to soon descend into a ‘fcuk him all he was interested in was the money’ slagging match. I’ve always thought he was in a damned if he did and damned if he didn’t situation with the changes that have occurred as the game hurtles towards semi professionalism.

Whatever people think about the job he did I can tell you he’s a serious grassroots football man at the back of it all.

Too much of a football man from my dealings with him, was too prepared to defer to established hurling counties for small ball issues.

Look he was s classic gas blazer and delivered  what mgmt committees  wanted whatever what Joe public felt like.

Syferian  is busy tweeting his job application but Peter McKenna 'job if he wants it
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Tubberman on October 11, 2017, 05:18:49 PM
I think it would be a disaster if McKenna got it. Not that I know much about the man, but from what I've seen he seems to be a businessman who's primary aim would be the P&L at the end of the year, and the games are an unfortunate necessity to achieving that.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2017, 05:20:41 PM
He was a steady hand at the wheel, a good administrator, and much maligned. I don't agree that the GAA under his watch has been focused on the money; this "Grab All Association" stuff is a load of BS. The association reinvests all its surplus revenue in the grassroots. "Greed" has nothing to do with it. If it were all about the money then Croke Park would be staging  more concerts than football and you wouldn't have lower-grade competitions playing their all-Ireland finals in CP in front of mostly empty stands. The GAA does a lot of things that other sports bodies do not in the interests of supporting its grass roots.

And before anyone goes off on the usual Sky deal controversy, they tried to give the games away for free to UK-based networks but nobody would take them. Sky offered to take them and to pay for them, as well as offering slightly (but not much) more than the previous Setanta deal. The Sky deal was about increased exposure and getting the games onto more mainstream media outside of Ireland, a step that was badly needed and which the international grass roots have been crying out for for years. The Sky deal was about listening to the grass roots, not ignoring them. The backlash was about the GAA media in Ireland ignoring and dismissing the GAA grassroots outside of Ireland.

The games might be under pressure to turn professional eventually but that has more to do with market forces than anything Duffy or any of the other leadership has done. A lot of the people bent out of shape about the presence of big corporate money in the GAA are the same people who are happy to sit and bask in the opulent surroundings of Croke Park that would never have been built without big corporate money.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: magpie seanie on October 11, 2017, 05:48:25 PM
A great man God bless him.
Sorry to see him go but the good ship GAA coped with the loss of Ó Caoimh,  Ó Síocháin and Liam Mulvihill and she'll continue to sail onwards and upwards.
Many long and happy years Paraic.


There's a name for that kind of talk. A few in fact.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 11, 2017, 05:59:38 PM
He was a steady hand at the wheel, a good administrator, and much maligned. I don't agree that the GAA under his watch has been focused on the money; this "Grab All Association" stuff is a load of BS. The association reinvests all its surplus revenue in the grassroots. "Greed" has nothing to do with it. If it were all about the money then Croke Park would be staging  more concerts than football and you wouldn't have lower-grade competitions playing their all-Ireland finals in CP in front of mostly empty stands. The GAA does a lot of things that other sports bodies do not in the interests of supporting its grass roots.

And before anyone goes off on the usual Sky deal controversy, they tried to give the games away for free to UK-based networks but nobody would take them. Sky offered to take them and to pay for them, as well as offering slightly (but not much) more than the previous Setanta deal. The Sky deal was about increased exposure and getting the games onto more mainstream media outside of Ireland, a step that was badly needed and which the international grass roots have been crying out for for years. The Sky deal was about listening to the grass roots, not ignoring them. The backlash was about the GAA media in Ireland ignoring and dismissing the GAA grassroots outside of Ireland.

The games might be under pressure to turn professional eventually but that has more to do with market forces than anything Duffy or any of the other leadership has done. A lot of the people bent out of shape about the presence of big corporate money in the GAA are the same people who are happy to sit and bask in the opulent surroundings of Croke Park that would never have been built without big corporate money.

Eamonn, who said anything about 'Greed', or the Grab All Association? If that's aimed at me you are missing my point entirely. I understand and love the fact that the money generated is all ploughed back in.

What I'm saying is that for some time now, in my opinion, decisions are based on maximising the revenue (which gets reinvested) but at the expense of competition/games. I believe a lot of decisions are made on the basis of 'what will this return for the GAA financially' rather than 'what does this do to our competitions/clubs/games'.

You need money to run the GAA, absolutely. But the money should be a means to an end (growing the game). Too often it feels as if generating more money is the end, and the games are the means.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 11, 2017, 06:03:30 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 11, 2017, 06:12:07 PM
I knew you would :)
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 11, 2017, 06:13:06 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.

You disagree with everyone who mentions the elephant in the room, Paraic.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: mrhardyannual on October 11, 2017, 06:15:14 PM
I would imagine that a consultancy firm would be used by the GAA to fill the position. I'd be very surprised if the next DG was already working in Croke Park. Peter Kenna, Pat Daly, Fergal McGill and PRO Milton would all have good attributes but an "outsider" would bring a new focus. Expect to see someone with a strong GAA background from the world of business or management be employed.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Blowitupref on October 11, 2017, 06:29:46 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.

U17 I'd with agreed as the early rounds clashes with the leaving cert exams. I don't believe the GAA under the strong voice of Paraic Duffy was right to get rid of the U21 football championship. On club football April is meant to be left free for counties to start their club championships next year but as Liam Kearns recently said  with the AI championship starting in the first week of May. How many are seriously going to release county players to the clubs for the whole of April? and then play the first round of the inter county championship in May?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sligoman2 on October 11, 2017, 06:32:38 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2017, 07:06:02 PM
He was a steady hand at the wheel, a good administrator, and much maligned. I don't agree that the GAA under his watch has been focused on the money; this "Grab All Association" stuff is a load of BS. The association reinvests all its surplus revenue in the grassroots. "Greed" has nothing to do with it. If it were all about the money then Croke Park would be staging  more concerts than football and you wouldn't have lower-grade competitions playing their all-Ireland finals in CP in front of mostly empty stands. The GAA does a lot of things that other sports bodies do not in the interests of supporting its grass roots.

And before anyone goes off on the usual Sky deal controversy, they tried to give the games away for free to UK-based networks but nobody would take them. Sky offered to take them and to pay for them, as well as offering slightly (but not much) more than the previous Setanta deal. The Sky deal was about increased exposure and getting the games onto more mainstream media outside of Ireland, a step that was badly needed and which the international grass roots have been crying out for for years. The Sky deal was about listening to the grass roots, not ignoring them. The backlash was about the GAA media in Ireland ignoring and dismissing the GAA grassroots outside of Ireland.

The games might be under pressure to turn professional eventually but that has more to do with market forces than anything Duffy or any of the other leadership has done. A lot of the people bent out of shape about the presence of big corporate money in the GAA are the same people who are happy to sit and bask in the opulent surroundings of Croke Park that would never have been built without big corporate money.

Eamonn, who said anything about 'Greed', or the Grab All Association?
I've heard it numerous times from various people.

Quote
If that's aimed at me you are missing my point entirely. I understand and love the fact that the money generated is all ploughed back in.

What I'm saying is that for some time now, in my opinion, decisions are based on maximising the revenue (which gets reinvested) but at the expense of competition/games. I believe a lot of decisions are made on the basis of 'what will this return for the GAA financially' rather than 'what does this do to our competitions/clubs/games'.

You need money to run the GAA, absolutely. But the money should be a means to an end (growing the game). Too often it feels as if generating more money is the end, and the games are the means.

Not aimed at you, it's a general point about the kind of criticism he has gotten over the years.

Don't worry, if I'm disagreeing with you specifically I'll let you know! :p
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2017, 07:09:31 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..

Hear hear.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2017, 07:12:26 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..

But but but... Syferus said  he's  bad....
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 11, 2017, 07:32:08 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..

But but but... Syferus said  he's  bad....

And proved it too. People are always too quick to lionise the retiring and dead, so the amount of praise here is no surprise. Give it a few years.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 11, 2017, 07:55:58 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.

You disagree with everyone who mentions the elephant in the room, Paraic.

Your juvenile musings bring nothing to any conversation.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 11, 2017, 08:00:10 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.

U17 I'd with agreed as the early rounds clashes with the leaving cert exams. I don't believe the GAA under the strong voice of Paraic Duffy was right to get rid of the U21 football championship. On club football April is meant to be left free for counties to start their club championships next year but as Liam Kearns recently said  with the AI championship starting in the first week of May. How many are seriously going to release county players to the clubs for the whole of April? and then play the first round of the inter county championship in May?

I think moving to U20 is one of the best decisions the GAA has made. It clashed with Sigerson where it was and many U21's were on senior league teams so some lads were playing Wednesday and then again on the weekend both of which could have involved significant journeys. Now you can't play senior and U20 and there's no clash with Sigerson.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Blowitupref on October 11, 2017, 08:52:36 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.

U17 I'd with agreed as the early rounds clashes with the leaving cert exams. I don't believe the GAA under the strong voice of Paraic Duffy was right to get rid of the U21 football championship. On club football April is meant to be left free for counties to start their club championships next year but as Liam Kearns recently said  with the AI championship starting in the first week of May. How many are seriously going to release county players to the clubs for the whole of April? and then play the first round of the inter county championship in May?

I think moving to U20 is one of the best decisions the GAA has made. It clashed with Sigerson where it was and many U21's were on senior league teams so some lads were playing Wednesday and then again on the weekend both of which could have involved significant journeys. Now you can't play senior and U20 and there's no clash with Sigerson.
A simple change could have avoided such of a clash.  U20s from what i know can still play in the NFL for their seniors and for their college teams in February. Come the summer time its decided which panel is best for a U20 and those U20s might only warm the bench seeing no game time for the county seniors this summer missing out on the U20 AI championship.  One of the best decisions the GAA has made i think not.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: omaghjoe on October 11, 2017, 09:07:48 PM
Im slightly torn on this. On the one hand I think he has done a pretty good job he has left the association in good nick financially and there seems to be growth nationally and internationally.
On the other Im a bit peeved about the increased commercialisation and inequality esp crap about the Sky deal and the Dublin behemoth. And I know he's not directly responsible for it all however he is the man at them helm.

With that said tho the increased exposure we get from the Sky deal and the increased presence of the GAA in Dublin is probably worth it. The commercialization is part of the world we live and to get things done its is just one of those things we will have to swallow unfortunately. There is fine line with it tho before you sell your soul hopefully we can tread on the right side of it.

So with all that considered I will have to say well done Pauric decent job done enjoy your retirement.

Anyone know is pension BTW? or  how does that work for GAA admin staff?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2017, 09:10:52 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..

But but but... Syferus said  he's  bad....

And proved it too. People are always too quick to lionise the retiring and dead, so the amount of praise here is no surprise. Give it a few years.
Give what a few years?
What's going to happen?
What did you "prove"?

Stop ruining adult discussions.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 11, 2017, 09:25:42 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..

But but but... Syferus said  he's  bad....

And proved it too. People are always too quick to lionise the retiring and dead, so the amount of praise here is no surprise. Give it a few years.
Give what a few years?
What's going to happen?
What did you "prove"?

Stop ruining adult discussions.

Are you talking to yourself or something?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: yellowcard on October 11, 2017, 10:38:29 PM
From what I can gather, Duffy was a thoroughly decent man with the best of intentions. His era will be easier judged in 10 years time but despite his empty soundbites about the importance of clubs, he has chosen a pathway that has favoured the elite. The GPA deal, the skysports deal and the super 8's were some of his biggest decisions none of which I'm comfortable with.

I dearly hope McKenna doesn't get the job, I think it needs to be somebody from outside the tent who hasn't been institutionalised and who is coming in with a clear head and a definite vision of where he wants to go. To me, despite his best efforts, Duffy lacked that clear vision and single mindedness needed for such a role. He was originally a teacher I understand and I believe that such a role is more suited to someone from a business background but who sees the GAA as more of an organisation about its people rather than revenue maximisation.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 11, 2017, 10:45:13 PM
http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/ (http://gaeliclife.com/2017/10/paraic-duffy-stand-director-general/)

My thoughts on Paraic is he seems to be a strong, clever man, but was too focused on the revenue generation and bottom line implications of the Business, with a capital B, of the GAA. We need the GAA ran well, to provide money to reinvest to keep the games strong all over the country. At times I felt the games were seen as a vehicle to provide more money. More money was the aim, rather than the games themselves.

Don't often disagree with you AZ but I do here. Duffy was a very capable, fair and innovate administrator and has brought the GAA forward. I don't see any evidence that the GAA has put money ahead of the games. I think the growth of Dublin GAA has skewed people's views of things and the GAA were right to do things like moving the grades to U17 and U20. As more changes are made the club player will benefit and only someone who doesn't know Duffy could claim he isn't a genuine grassroots GAA man.

U17 I'd with agreed as the early rounds clashes with the leaving cert exams. I don't believe the GAA under the strong voice of Paraic Duffy was right to get rid of the U21 football championship. On club football April is meant to be left free for counties to start their club championships next year but as Liam Kearns recently said  with the AI championship starting in the first week of May. How many are seriously going to release county players to the clubs for the whole of April? and then play the first round of the inter county championship in May?

I think moving to U20 is one of the best decisions the GAA has made. It clashed with Sigerson where it was and many U21's were on senior league teams so some lads were playing Wednesday and then again on the weekend both of which could have involved significant journeys. Now you can't play senior and U20 and there's no clash with Sigerson.
A simple change could have avoided such of a clash.  U20s from what i know can still play in the NFL for their seniors and for their college teams in February. Come the summer time its decided which panel is best for a U20 and those U20s might only warm the bench seeing no game time for the county seniors this summer missing out on the U20 AI championship.  One of the best decisions the GAA has made i think not.

One of the biggest problems in the GAA is that talented players could play for 8-10 teams in the same year. It is a brilliant decision to start addressing that. If an U20 is on a senior panel he has no chance of playing for then that's the county's fault and nothing to do with the system.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2017, 10:53:07 PM

Stop ruining adult discussions.

Are you talking to yourself or something?

Stop it, the pair of you.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2017, 10:54:09 PM
From what I can gather, Duffy was a thoroughly decent man with the best of intentions. His era will be easier judged in 10 years time but despite his empty soundbites about the importance of clubs, he has chosen a pathway that has favoured the elite. The GPA deal, the skysports deal and the super 8's were some of his biggest decisions none of which I'm comfortable with.

I dearly hope McKenna doesn't get the job, I think it needs to be somebody from outside the tent who hasn't been institutionalised and who is coming in with a clear head and a definite vision of where he wants to go. To me, despite his best efforts, Duffy lacked that clear vision and single mindedness needed for such a role. He was originally a teacher I understand and I believe that such a role is more suited to someone from a business background but who sees the GAA as more of an organisation about its people rather than revenue maximisation.

Was he really a teacher? What is it with the top jobs in Ireland (I'm thinking politics) that teachers are so over-represented?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sligoman2 on October 11, 2017, 10:58:08 PM
Personally I think he has done a great job but maybe that’s because I believe in making progress and not wanting to stay in the dark ages.
 
I know the naysayers will say that most of the money is going to Dublin and some old farmer in Offaly can’t see every game on Rte.  what you won’t say is that Dublin has the biggest population and there are now more games on RTÉ and Tg4 than ever before. People all over the world can now watch gaa games, the growth overseas is huge.  The super 8’s will be a success, the gaa is in a good place, are any counties getting less now than they were 10 years ago? Are we a more progressive organization who support a rugby World Cup bid(as we should)? Do more counties have centers of excellence funded in part by the gaa, and the same for club facilities.

Good job Pauric, fcuk the begruders..

But but but... Syferus said  he's  bad....

And proved it too. People are always too quick to lionise the retiring and dead, so the amount of praise here is no surprise. Give it a few years.
Give what a few years?
What's going to happen?
What did you "prove"?

Stop ruining adult discussions.
  ;D ;D ;D brilliant
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on October 11, 2017, 11:05:26 PM
A brilliant administrator with a sharp brain and a great antennae for bullshitters. Remember the DG doesn’t have a vote and it is his job to enact the ideas and motions which are brought forward to Congress and Central Council.  He could have sat back and just done his job without ever presenting an idea, but he really cares about the GAA and put his neck on the block on many occasions to improve the association. If you want to get to know him and his intellect, just read his annual reports. Fascinating reading, excellently written, detailed, very professional, with searing insights and  full of ideas. He will be sorely missed. He could not be bought. He was his own man. He had no cronies. He wasn’t interested in globe trotting, or big dinners etc. Compare him to the boy who holds the same job at the FAI.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2017, 11:07:03 PM
Paraic Duffy stepping away from his post the same year that his U20 and Super 8 babies will be born how unsurprising. No doubt he will have candidates lined up like himself to take over his role he might even have countrywide roadshow to get the county reps to elect his favorite.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sligoman2 on October 11, 2017, 11:17:15 PM
Paraic Duffy stepping away from his post the same year that his U20 and Super 8 babies will be born how unsurprising. No doubt he will have candidates lined up like himself to take over his role he might even have countrywide roadshow to get the county reps to elect his favorite.

Not sure what this post means.  What you are saying is not obvious captain.

I’m sure he wouldn’t have proposed the ideas if he didn’t think they would be successful so I don’t understand why he would now have second thoughts and be so concerned that he decided to retire before they went into effect.
Obviously I’m missing something captain or else you are just making no sense like our Roscommon Einstein..
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2017, 11:25:02 PM
Paraic Duffy stepping away from his post the same year that his U20 and Super 8 babies will be born how unsurprising. No doubt he will have candidates lined up like himself to take over his role he might even have countrywide roadshow to get the county reps to elect his favorite.

Not sure what this post means.  What you are saying is not obvious captain.

I’m sure he wouldn’t have proposed the ideas if he didn’t think they would be successful so I don’t understand why he would now have second thoughts and be so concerned that he decided to retire before they went into effect.
Obviously I’m missing something captain or else you are just making no sense like our Roscommon Einstein..

He's basically saying that Duffy has deliberately sabotaged the association, scuttled off before the damage happens, and is going to spend the first few months of his retirement mounting a political-style campaign to have someone just like him be appointed to replace him. It's the classic Irish begrudger's mindset. Never seems to cross some people's minds that someone might be working in good faith and have honourable intentions.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2017, 11:33:33 PM
Never seems to cross some people's minds that someone might be working in good faith and have honourable intentions.
Paraic Duffy we are talking about here right? anyway would be rude of me not to say bye Paraic and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2017, 03:04:37 AM
He's working for the Iluminati.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: SCFC on October 12, 2017, 08:17:03 AM
I suppose we still don't know the salary?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 12, 2017, 09:21:26 AM
A brilliant administrator with a sharp brain and a great antennae for bullshitters. Remember the DG doesn’t have a vote and it is his job to enact the ideas and motions which are brought forward to Congress and Central Council.  He could have sat back and just done his job without ever presenting an idea, but he really cares about the GAA and put his neck on the block on many occasions to improve the association. If you want to get to know him and his intellect, just read his annual reports. Fascinating reading, excellently written, detailed, very professional, with searing insights and  full of ideas. He will be sorely missed. He could not be bought. He was his own man. He had no cronies. He wasn’t interested in globe trotting, or big dinners etc. Compare him to the boy who holds the same job at the FAI.
My breakfast nearly came up reading that bullshit.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 10:33:53 AM
I’d be biased I suppose as I’m a club man of Paraic’s but I think he’s been really good in his time in the job. I’d expect this thread to soon descend into a ‘fcuk him all he was interested in was the money’ slagging match. I’ve always thought he was in a damned if he did and damned if he didn’t situation with the changes that have occurred as the game hurtles towards semi professionalism.

Whatever people think about the job he did I can tell you he’s a serious grassroots football man at the back of it all.

When it comes to how I'd view the man's tenure, the bit in bold says it all for me. I don't doubt that he is a genuine man with the best interests of the GAA at heart, and he came across as a man who believed in the measures he implemented and oversaw.

However he acted as if he believed that the move to semi (or full) professionalism in the GAA was inevitable, and that his job was to steer the bobsled downhill, because there was no point trying to stop it. He oversaw complete and utter capitulation to the GPA agenda, and consequently has made it incredibly difficult for the next occupant of the role to change that trajectory. To give the GPA such power and resource without any level of accountability or oversight strikes me as completely counter to the ideals of the GAA, and it will be very hard to unwind. I firmly believe that in the future we're going to have an Angela Kerins/REHAB style moment within the GPA when somebody lifts the lid on the finances in that organisation, and that has been facilitated by the GAA's petrified stance in any sort of face off with that body.

I'd also broadly fall in line with AZOffaly's view, that he often saw revenue generation as a worthy goal in itself, rather than a necessary aspect to fund the promotion of all gaelic games across the entire country. Again, I've no doubt that the GPA approves of this too, since it makes sense to fatten the calf as much as possible before killing it.


Ultimately however, I believe that this approach didn't emanate from any will to do harm to the GAA, but far more a sense that we're on the cusp of a professional era, and that all that it was in his power to do was to manage the transition as much as possible.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2017, 10:46:05 AM
When is this "Professional era" coming in?
Will all 32 Counties have fully professional hurling and football teams of 30 players each plus 20 managenent/back up/administration?
€50K ×50 = €2.5m x 64 = €160m.
Minimum for wages only.
Who's going to pay for all this?

I thought paranoia had vanished from GAABOARD but it's back in full flow as the "enemies/nemesis" of the GAA are getting it with both barrels from the usual crew.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 12, 2017, 10:51:46 AM
When is this "Professional era" coming in?
Will all 32 Counties have fully professional hurling and football teams of 30 players each plus 20 managenent/back up/administration?
€50K ×50 = €2.5m x 64 = €160m.
Minimum for wages only.
Who's going to pay for all this?

I thought paranoia had vanished from GAABOARD but it's back in full flow as the "enemies/nemesis" of the GAA are getting it with both barrels from the usual crew.
Your usual kind of carry on with anyone who dares question the motives of the GPA, Croke Park etc., predictable as it is tiresome.

Anyway if the Association slides further towards professionalism there won't be 32 teams for sure, it'll simply not be sustainable, you can look forward to the bigger guns staying pretty intact and the rest disappearing or having to merge to become in any way viable, us ye and Leitrim might become the North Connacht Rangers or some such franchise name.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2017, 10:58:32 AM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 11:02:26 AM
When is this "Professional era" coming in?
Will all 32 Counties have fully professional hurling and football teams of 30 players each plus 20 managenent/back up/administration?
€50K ×50 = €2.5m x 64 = €160m.
Minimum for wages only.
Who's going to pay for all this?

I thought paranoia had vanished from GAABOARD but it's back in full flow as the "enemies/nemesis" of the GAA are getting it with both barrels from the usual crew.

Owenmoresider got in there before me. There won't be 64 professional teams, there'll probably be about 12-14 between both sports, and between them they will cannibalise everything in terms of TV revenue, sponsorship, players etc.

And we're well on the way already. Factor in sponsored cars, clothing, mileage (over and above the basic amount to cover fuel/wear and tear), food (again, I'm not talking the one meal after training here) and all the other add ons that are available, and there are plenty of players involved with the stronger teams in both codes who are doing very well out of playing intercounty GAA. If you're a potential intercounty hurler and footballer from somewhere like Ballyhaunis in Mayo or Ballinacourty in Waterford, there's no getting away from the fact that it's not just the potential for a senior All Ireland title that varies hugely depending on which sport you want to play - it's your earning potential as well.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 12, 2017, 11:44:16 AM
Too much commercialism in the GAA today.

It's building into something akin to the property bubble.

The danger being, when the bubble eventually bursts, the volunteer clubmen/women that is the real strength of the GAA walk away in their droves - subsequently realises they quite like having an extra 10 hours a week to themselves and never return.


A few simple steps to it:
-- Renew the focus on club games. They are cheaper, more accessible and often mean more to the many. If fixture congestion is such a big deal, then take the inter county championship back to straight knock out (in fact, maybe do this anyway).
-- Limit county training time. If any county is found to exceed it, draconian punishment needs to be imposed (up to exclusion). That'll also have the welcome side effect of somewhat equalising performance between the halves and halve nots.
-- Matches that don't have a high probability of filling Croke Park, don't go to Croke Park.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 11:46:20 AM
"Elitism" has become a sort of catch all pejorative term for backwoodsmen in the same way "liberals" has become a catch all pejorative term for right-wing nut jobs.

I've yet to hear a proper explanation of what this "elitism" is, never mind a proper explanation of what problems its causing or what the solutions to these problems are.

But sure just vilifying Padraic Duffy, or referencing a few Colm O'Rourke or Joe Brolly articles that go nowhere, say nothing beyond shouting "elitism", and offer no solutions to anything, should garner a few sympathetic posts in response.




Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 11:58:36 AM

-- Renew the focus on club games.
What does that even mean?

There has never been more focus on club games than there is now.

-- Limit county training time. If any county is found to exceed it, draconian punishment needs to be imposed (up to exclusion). That'll also have the welcome side effect of somewhat equalising performance between the halves and halve nots.
County training is already limited under the rules and these rules discriminate against those who are knocked out of the championship early.

But the bottom line is you can't stop people associating freely with each other because this is a free society, not a vigilante one.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 12:11:25 PM

-- Renew the focus on club games.
What does that even mean?

There has never been more focus on club games than there is now.


-- Limit county training time. If any county is found to exceed it, draconian punishment needs to be imposed (up to exclusion). That'll also have the welcome side effect of somewhat equalising performance between the halves and halve nots.
County training is already limited under the rules and these rules discriminate against those who are knocked out of the championship early.

But the bottom line is you can't stop people associating freely with each other because this is a free society, not a vigilante one.

Sid, no harm, but unless you mean media focus and the whole club All Ireland coverage, you are completely off base with this one. I take 'focus' in this sense to mean having it front and centre in the GAA calendar, not pushed off as an inconvenience. In our rush to have more inter county games, and as the inter county games become more high profile and pressurised, Clubs are getting reduced access to their county players for training, and their meaningful games are being squeezed in all over the shop. the new proposals about April being free from club, and September onwards, are almost unworkable. As Liam Kearns says, if you have a championship match in May, you're hardly going to be happy to see the players on the first of May.

The only good thing I see about the new proposals is the inter county season ends earlier, albeit with more games squeezed in, and Club players should at least be able to book holidays for May or June with a fair degree of certainty they won't have to change plans.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 12, 2017, 12:21:45 PM
What does that even mean?

What do you think it means? It's not exactly complicated.

There has never been more focus on club games than there is now.

What. The. F**k.


In an era of the backdoor and now the super-8s, there has never been more intercounty fixtures in the calendar. How on earth does that add up in your world to focus on club games?


County training is already limited under the rules and these rules discriminate against those who are knocked out of the championship early.

When IC managers are able to interfere in all sorts of manner with the running of club leagues and championships, then its not limited enough.

But the bottom line is you can't stop people associating freely with each other because this is a free society, not a vigilante one.

You can't stop people from running with the ball without soloing, its a free society. But you'd be pulled up by the referee for violating the rules of a sport.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 12:25:25 PM

-- Renew the focus on club games.
What does that even mean?

There has never been more focus on club games than there is now.


-- Limit county training time. If any county is found to exceed it, draconian punishment needs to be imposed (up to exclusion). That'll also have the welcome side effect of somewhat equalising performance between the halves and halve nots.
County training is already limited under the rules and these rules discriminate against those who are knocked out of the championship early.

But the bottom line is you can't stop people associating freely with each other because this is a free society, not a vigilante one.

Sid, no harm, but unless you mean media focus and the whole club All Ireland coverage, you are completely off base with this one. I take 'focus' in this sense to mean having it front and centre in the GAA calendar, not pushed off as an inconvenience. In our rush to have more inter county games, and as the inter county games become more high profile and pressurised, Clubs are getting reduced access to their county players for training, and their meaningful games are being squeezed in all over the shop. the new proposals about April being free from club, and September onwards, are almost unworkable. As Liam Kearns says, if you have a championship match in May, you're hardly going to be happy to see the players on the first of May.

The only good thing I see about the new proposals is the inter county season ends earlier, albeit with more games squeezed in, and Club players should at least be able to book holidays for May or June with a fair degree of certainty they won't have to change plans.
Club games have never been "front and centre of the GAA calendar," unless you're referring to the time over a century ago when club teams contested the All-Ireland championships.

There wasn't even an All-Ireland club championship until 1971 and the concept of the finals being played every year in Croke Park didn't begin until 1986.

The All-Ireland intermediate and junior club championships are a very recent invention.

In a previous post I compared those who cry "elitism" to right-wing nut jobs who cry "liberals", as if either of these terms provide any insight into anything (they don't).

And like those right-wing nut jobs, those who cry "elitism" are harking back to an imagined "golden age" that never existed.



Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: rosnarun on October 12, 2017, 12:27:35 PM
I don't see many clever business moves. A child could have dreamt up the Super 8 as a way to generate cheap boost in revenue to cover for falling attendances. It shows no imagination at all, and that has typifies his tenure.

History won't judge his era kindly.
the inevitable character assassination begins . hell be the devils spawn before some mod closes the thread

The fact you, a seeming apologist for him, knew it was inevitable he’d be strongly criticised says enough about his reign in itself.
how am I an apologist for him my comment is more aimed at the board than him and subsequent debate had proved me correct.
the best administrator are the one you hear least about. they are there to implement policy not to create it  .
I have no interest in who gets the job as they are only as powerful as congress lets them be
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 12, 2017, 12:28:49 PM
There wasn't even an All-Ireland club championship until 1971 and the concept of the finals being played every year in Croke Park didn't begin until 1986.

So what? You completely and utterly miss the point.

How many clubs does this involve?


What about the thousands that are f**ked about week to week with fixtures postponed, re-arranged, re-arranged again, postponed, etc etc, all to suit the inter-county scene. Its not just the players, but all those involved with the clubs.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 12:41:07 PM
What does that even mean?

What do you think it means? It's not exactly complicated.
Well, if it's not complicated, surely you could tell us?

There has never been more focus on club games than there is now.

What. The. F**k.


In an era of the backdoor and now the super-8s, there has never been more intercounty fixtures in the calendar. How on earth does that add up in your world to focus on club games?
See my last post.

Every change to the format of the All-Ireland championships has been voted for by the delegates of the GAA. The delegates are the representatives of the grass roots.

The grass roots have voted for all these changes.


County training is already limited under the rules and these rules discriminate against those who are knocked out of the championship early.

When IC managers are able to interfere in all sorts of manner with the running of club leagues and championships, then its not limited enough.
Clubs are more than able to interfere with the running of championships themselves. See what's happening in Galway at the moment.

The GAA have brought in a more streamlined calendar where more time will be set aside to run off club championships.

Yet apparently that amounts to "Club football RIP".

Strange logic.

But the bottom line is you can't stop people associating freely with each other because this is a free society, not a vigilante one.

You can't stop people from running with the ball without soloing, its a free society. But you'd be pulled up by the referee for violating the rules of a sport.
You're confusing the rules of a sport with the rules of a free society. An easy mistake to make, sure.

The GAA tried vigilantism before. It didn't work out very well.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sligoman2 on October 12, 2017, 12:41:16 PM
If the super 8’s semis and finals are all done by the end of August (5 rounds in total), it means that 24 teams are done by mid July at the latest.  That’s 3 months before today’s date and so club championships in those counties have loads of time.
Great post Sid, I agree that I don’t know what elitist means in the gaa, does it mean you get cheese on the burger or curry on the chips when others don’t.  The dinosaurs keep trotting out the old standards like elitism, amateur ethos, GPA, grassroots, commercialization etc and don’t provide any details.
This is 2017, we live in a dynamic world, it’s kill or be killed.  If you are not innovative you are done and will be left behind quickly.  I think Pauric has done a good job making sure that doesn’t happen but we all know you can never please everyone especially those who the sawdoctors say are “living in the sixties” still.

Good man Pauric, fcuk the begrudgers again.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 12:47:32 PM
There wasn't even an All-Ireland club championship until 1971 and the concept of the finals being played every year in Croke Park didn't begin until 1986.

So what? You completely and utterly miss the point.

How many clubs does this involve?

What about the thousands that are f**ked about week to week with fixtures postponed, re-arranged, re-arranged again, postponed, etc etc, all to suit the inter-county scene. Its not just the players, but all those involved with the clubs.
Or maybe it's to suit themselves?

I don't miss the point at all. I completely get the point.

Clubs themselves and county administrators are the main culprits in screwing over their own players in cancelling games at the drop of a hat.

Yet we're told that's it's apparently all the fault of Padraic Duffy and inter-county managers.

Cry me a river.





Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 12:54:51 PM
Sid, by front and centre, I mean that they exist alongside our county games. We should not be squeezing the shite out of 95% of our players to allow the cash cow inter county game to have more slots.


I'm not a backwoodsman, or scream about elitism, but I am concerned about the direction we are going. The natural outcome of all of this, as far as I can see, is club and county essentially existing with no crossover between the teams.  Paraic Duffy and others have mentioned Champions league style formats as a possibility for example. the Super 8s is probably the first step along that road. They want more inter county games, more exposure of the IC game. This agenda is absolutely being led from the top table, and Duffy with his 10 year tenure has been instrumental in that shift.

But spare me the begrudgers comment sligoman2. I take offence at that. I begrudge nothing. I love the IC game, I love football, I love hurling and I love the club scene. Our clubs are struggling in my opinion, in terms of games and in terms of demands and availability of county players. In dual counties, the problem is magnified. I accept we need revenue generation to keep the club game alive too. So I'm not 'anti' IC. I am concerned that the drive to maximise the IC revenue streams is having an unintended knock on impact, and I'm concerned that the new changes will make that even more difficult for clubs , especially in dual counties.

I don't think my fears are unreasonable.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sligoman2 on October 12, 2017, 12:58:37 PM
Sid, by front and centre, I mean that they exist alongside our county games. We should not be squeezing the shite out of 95% of our players to allow the cash cow inter county game to have more slots.


I'm not a backwoodsman, or scream about elitism, but I am concerned about the direction we are going. The natural outcome of all of this, as far as I can see, is club and county essentially existing with no crossover between the teams.  Paraic Duffy and others have mentioned Champions league style formats as a possibility for example. the Super 8s is probably the first step along that road. They want more inter county games, more exposure of the IC game. This agenda is absolutely being led from the top table, and Duffy with his 10 year tenure has been instrumental in that shift.

But spare me the begrudgers comment sligoman2. I take offence at that. I begrudge nothing. I love the IC game, I love football, I love hurling and I love the club scene. Our clubs are struggling in my opinion, in terms of games and in terms of demands and availability of county players. In dual counties, the problem is magnified. I accept we need revenue generation to keep the club game alive too. So I'm not 'anti' IC. I am concerned that the drive to maximise the IC revenue streams is having an unintended knock on impact, and I'm concerned that the new changes will make that even more difficult for clubs , especially in dual counties.

I don't think my fears are unreasonable.
Okay AZ, I will spare you this time but don’t let it happen again... ;D
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 01:28:38 PM
Before Sid Waddell came in with his comments regarding "elitism", it should be noted that the word had only been used once on this thread. That isn't the cry here. More than a few people had referred to the fact that in their view (and I'm in this group), Paraic Duffy's administration was notable for a huge drive towards the monetization of our big games, and a very commercial focus, as opposed to focussing on what's best for the development of our games overall.

Among the issues (and this is being specific, not throwing out general ideas) are these:

(1) The increasing power of the GPA, the lack of oversight in exchange for the huge level of funding they receive, and the fact that they appear to have a huge amount of control over what happens in our games. They make laughable claims about how the provincial championships could be played in April, like a standalone O'Byrne Cup style competition, but that the crowds will be same as they are now - and yet nobody calls them out on it. We have no idea what they pay their staff, no idea what they plan to use the media rights money for, and PD seems to think that's all okay. 

(2) The fact is that while it is correct to say that all changes have been voted through by county boards, and they in turn should vote on the basis of what their clubs want, that's not how it works in practice. In practice, the only motions that get through in the majority of cases are the ones proposed by Ard Comhairle, since what happens is that counties only oppose them if they have a strong vested interest in doing so, and there's never a huge number of counties that have that. Everybody wants to cosy up to the top table to have a chance of getting favours in future, so a county like Sligo, or Fermanagh, or Donegal, will vote through whatever Ard Comhairle wants when it comes to the Leinster and Munster hurling championship. And I don't think anyone on here is going to pretend that Tubbercurry, Termon or Teemore are going to sit down at a club meeting and discuss the Leinster SHC. They've enough to be doing making sure there are jerseys on the backs of the under-14s, and enough adults to coach them.

Homework exercise - try and find the last time a motion from a county regarding the structure of championships was passed. You'll have to dig. Successful motions in that area only come from Ard Comhairle.

(3) Back in the "golden era" that no-one wants to return to, despite what some people might claim, all county championships and most club championships were straight knockout. Consequently you could play club and county side by side, through the summer. Nobody wants that, but what has happened since is that both strands now have a full programme of games, and the extra space has been completely eaten by intercounty, instead of shared. County teams get the summer while the clubs get April, and Autumn (provided the county team gets knocked out). Even if a county team doesn't have a game for a fortnight, the manager often looks for the club players for a hastily organised challenge game, so there is no change of fitting club games in. Most would argue that a little bit of balance would be nice, but instead Paraic has been at the head of the charge for this notion that giving clubs the month of April is a big step in the right direction, even though I don't know a single club player who (a) believes that any county will actually be able to play club games on the weekend of April 28/29 in 2018, and (b) enjoys the "two season" aspect, and having to be championship ready at a time when there can still be a touch of frost on the ground when you get up in the morning. 

And yes, the new system means that most counties (at least 21/32, all bar 8 football and 3 hurling) will be done by mid-July. But what of the other 11?

(4) On top of all this, PD has overseen a dramatic growth in a new phenomenon, that of underage county development squads. Now we have the farcical situation where under-14 club teams can't get games played, because they can't get access to their players. We see county under-16 panels playing anything from six to ten "competitive" games in a summer, where managers demand access to the players and club fixtures can't be played. How is that not elitist? 

I like the U-20 development, it has always defied logic that players would play at that age (or U21) and senior as well. I'll give credit for that certainly.

(5) Another new evolution in GAA has been the amount of time involved in playing intercounty, which in turn means that whole swathes of people are ruled out, purely because their employers aren't able to be as flexible. And yes, that feeds into elitism, because it means that if you have a Tesco employee in Kinlough, playing for Melvin Gaels, and another five miles down the road in Bundoran, playing for Realt na Mara, and they are both potential county players - the county with the far greater level of funding (in this case Donegal) has a far better chance of getting their player a handy job that's compatible with playing county, while the guy in Leitrim has no option but to keep his job with all the weekend and evening hours that are incompatible with joining a county panel.

There will always be counties with wealthy backers, and the teacher will always have a massive advantage over the "9-5:30, 4 weeks annual leave" professional, but we've long passed the time for the top administrators in the GAA to shout stop - and they never have.



You say there are no details - there's just a handful of details, and in every instance PD has either stood back and done nothing, or overseen a continued decline, or in the case of the GPA, actively fed the parasite within. Again, I fully agree that he has only ever acted out of good will, but he has always been a man who has acted within the constraints of what he perceives to be the inevitable future of the GAA that no-one truly wants, but he feels powerless to stop. In comparison with the job done by Liam Mulvihill, I'm afraid he's in the ha'penny place.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 01:41:38 PM
LS, I'll let Sid digest that and respond as many of the points I'd be in agreement with. However, just on the development squads, I'm not sure where you are getting that info?

I'm involved in Tipp, and Clubs are absolutely #1 when it comes to access to players. In fact I rang clubs on a Thursday to insist that lads on my squad played with their clubs on that Thursday night, despite our 'tournament' being on the Saturday. We organise training, and games around club availability, and in a county like Tipp with 4 divisions all operating off separate calendars, that is not easy.

We also only play that 1 tournament, so I'm not sure where the 6-10 competitive games comes from.

I'm not sure what counties you are referring to, so maybe it's different in other counties, but there are guidelines laid down about Development Squad sessions, and the pre-eminence of club activities, so that may be a county or counties actually breaching guidelines set down by the GAA.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: johnneycool on October 12, 2017, 01:54:58 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html

Compared to Nicky Brennan, my ma is a better sports administrator FFS!
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 01:56:27 PM
Sid, by front and centre, I mean that they exist alongside our county games. We should not be squeezing the shite out of 95% of our players to allow the cash cow inter county game to have more slots.


I'm not a backwoodsman, or scream about elitism, but I am concerned about the direction we are going. The natural outcome of all of this, as far as I can see, is club and county essentially existing with no crossover between the teams.  Paraic Duffy and others have mentioned Champions league style formats as a possibility for example. the Super 8s is probably the first step along that road. They want more inter county games, more exposure of the IC game. This agenda is absolutely being led from the top table, and Duffy with his 10 year tenure has been instrumental in that shift.

But spare me the begrudgers comment sligoman2. I take offence at that. I begrudge nothing. I love the IC game, I love football, I love hurling and I love the club scene. Our clubs are struggling in my opinion, in terms of games and in terms of demands and availability of county players. In dual counties, the problem is magnified. I accept we need revenue generation to keep the club game alive too. So I'm not 'anti' IC. I am concerned that the drive to maximise the IC revenue streams is having an unintended knock on impact, and I'm concerned that the new changes will make that even more difficult for clubs , especially in dual counties.

I don't think my fears are unreasonable.
Why wouldn't the GAA and the people involved in it at every level want more exposure for the inter-county game. That's the GAA's primary selling point.

A round robin format, as we will have in hurling next year, allows for greater certainty in terms of fixtures.

More revenue from the inter-county game means greater revenue to be distributed to clubs.

The inter-county game will not have "more slots" next year. The inter-county season will in fact be shortened, with more games fitted into the "slots" allocated to it.

More not less time is being set aside for club championships.

Why are clubs struggling in many areas?

Well, look at what's happening in wider society for the answer to that.

Why are most rural areas in the country struggling?

Because society is changing, jobs are hard to find, and young people tend to move away from rural areas, either to cities or out of the country altogether.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 02:04:32 PM
You think everything is hunky dory in terms of Club fixtures and scheduling Sid? And that they will be even better after the new formats?

If so fair enough, but I disagree fundamentally, and I think our fixtures are an embarrassment when set beside soccer or rugby.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 02:15:39 PM
When is this "Professional era" coming in?
Will all 32 Counties have fully professional hurling and football teams of 30 players each plus 20 managenent/back up/administration?
€50K ×50 = €2.5m x 64 = €160m.
Minimum for wages only.
Who's going to pay for all this?

I thought paranoia had vanished from GAABOARD but it's back in full flow as the "enemies/nemesis" of the GAA are getting it with both barrels from the usual crew.
Your usual kind of carry on with anyone who dares question the motives of the GPA, Croke Park etc., predictable as it is tiresome.

Anyway if the Association slides further towards professionalism there won't be 32 teams for sure, it'll simply not be sustainable, you can look forward to the bigger guns staying pretty intact and the rest disappearing or having to merge to become in any way viable, us ye and Leitrim might become the North Connacht Rangers or some such franchise name.

And repeatedly scaremongering about a looming professionalism without any real detail on how it could happen is equally tiresome. Duffy did a brilliant job and directed the GAA very capably. Players and teams are becoming better prepared which involves more time and finance but nobody has ever proposed a realistic professional model and until there is one then the prophets of doom are as misguided as the nut jobs on street corners claiming the end of the world is nigh.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2017, 02:25:15 PM
When is this "Professional era" coming in?
Will all 32 Counties have fully professional hurling and football teams of 30 players each plus 20 managenent/back up/administration?
€50K ×50 = €2.5m x 64 = €160m.
Minimum for wages only.
Who's going to pay for all this?

I thought paranoia had vanished from GAABOARD but it's back in full flow as the "enemies/nemesis" of the GAA are getting it with both barrels from the usual crew.
Your usual kind of carry on with anyone who dares question the motives of the GPA, Croke Park etc., predictable as it is tiresome.

Anyway if the Association slides further towards professionalism there won't be 32 teams for sure, it'll simply not be sustainable, you can look forward to the bigger guns staying pretty intact and the rest disappearing or having to merge to become in any way viable, us ye and Leitrim might become the North Connacht Rangers or some such franchise name.

And repeatedly scaremongering about a looming professionalism without any real detail on how it could happen is equally tiresome. Duffy did a brilliant job and directed the GAA very capably. Players and teams are becoming better prepared which involves more time and finance but nobody has ever proposed a realistic professional model and until there is one then the prophets of doom are as misguided as the nut jobs on street corners claiming the end of the world is nigh.

You just want to keep us at just the one professional side, I guess.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 02:31:48 PM
You think everything is hunky dory in terms of Club fixtures and scheduling Sid? And that they will be even better after the new formats?

If so fair enough, but I disagree fundamentally, and I think our fixtures are an embarrassment when set beside soccer or rugby.

AZ, I agree with you on the club situation but I think you are mistaken on the motivations for more IC games. It isn't primarily monetary but simply about giving IC players a much better ratio of games to training. Of course, the best teams will get more games and this will generate more money but I don't believe the GAA sat down and said screw everything else, how can we make more money.

One thing that is repeatedly ignored by those bashing Duffy is the fact his super 8 proposal was on the back of extensive engagement with all clubs and counties and the restrictions they imposed, like keeping the provincials, limited what he could propose.

Clubs certainly need to be given more time for games but I know that underage has improved massively from my day when even with two codes you wouldn't get a huge amount of games unless you got to the county final and played at more than one age grade.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 02:35:46 PM
When is this "Professional era" coming in?
Will all 32 Counties have fully professional hurling and football teams of 30 players each plus 20 managenent/back up/administration?
€50K ×50 = €2.5m x 64 = €160m.
Minimum for wages only.
Who's going to pay for all this?

I thought paranoia had vanished from GAABOARD but it's back in full flow as the "enemies/nemesis" of the GAA are getting it with both barrels from the usual crew.
Your usual kind of carry on with anyone who dares question the motives of the GPA, Croke Park etc., predictable as it is tiresome.

Anyway if the Association slides further towards professionalism there won't be 32 teams for sure, it'll simply not be sustainable, you can look forward to the bigger guns staying pretty intact and the rest disappearing or having to merge to become in any way viable, us ye and Leitrim might become the North Connacht Rangers or some such franchise name.

And repeatedly scaremongering about a looming professionalism without any real detail on how it could happen is equally tiresome. Duffy did a brilliant job and directed the GAA very capably. Players and teams are becoming better prepared which involves more time and finance but nobody has ever proposed a realistic professional model and until there is one then the prophets of doom are as misguided as the nut jobs on street corners claiming the end of the world is nigh.

You just want to keep us at just the one professional side, I guess.

Be patient child, I'm sure your mother will put your pacifier back in your cot soon and you go back to sleep. Us adults promise not to talk too loud.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 03:07:28 PM
Before Sid Waddell came in with his comments regarding "elitism", it should be noted that the word had only been used once on this thread. That isn't the cry here. More than a few people had referred to the fact that in their view (and I'm in this group), Paraic Duffy's administration was notable for a huge drive towards the monetization of our big games, and a very commercial focus, as opposed to focussing on what's best for the development of our games overall.

Among the issues (and this is being specific, not throwing out general ideas) are these:

(1) The increasing power of the GPA, the lack of oversight in exchange for the huge level of funding they receive, and the fact that they appear to have a huge amount of control over what happens in our games. They make laughable claims about how the provincial championships could be played in April, like a standalone O'Byrne Cup style competition, but that the crowds will be same as they are now - and yet nobody calls them out on it. We have no idea what they pay their staff, no idea what they plan to use the media rights money for, and PD seems to think that's all okay. 

(2) The fact is that while it is correct to say that all changes have been voted through by county boards, and they in turn should vote on the basis of what their clubs want, that's not how it works in practice. In practice, the only motions that get through in the majority of cases are the ones proposed by Ard Comhairle, since what happens is that counties only oppose them if they have a strong vested interest in doing so, and there's never a huge number of counties that have that. Everybody wants to cosy up to the top table to have a chance of getting favours in future, so a county like Sligo, or Fermanagh, or Donegal, will vote through whatever Ard Comhairle wants when it comes to the Leinster and Munster hurling championship. And I don't think anyone on here is going to pretend that Tubbercurry, Termon or Teemore are going to sit down at a club meeting and discuss the Leinster SHC. They've enough to be doing making sure there are jerseys on the backs of the under-14s, and enough adults to coach them.

Homework exercise - try and find the last time a motion from a county regarding the structure of championships was passed. You'll have to dig. Successful motions in that area only come from Ard Comhairle.

(3) Back in the "golden era" that no-one wants to return to, despite what some people might claim, all county championships and most club championships were straight knockout. Consequently you could play club and county side by side, through the summer. Nobody wants that, but what has happened since is that both strands now have a full programme of games, and the extra space has been completely eaten by intercounty, instead of shared. County teams get the summer while the clubs get April, and Autumn (provided the county team gets knocked out). Even if a county team doesn't have a game for a fortnight, the manager often looks for the club players for a hastily organised challenge game, so there is no change of fitting club games in. Most would argue that a little bit of balance would be nice, but instead Paraic has been at the head of the charge for this notion that giving clubs the month of April is a big step in the right direction, even though I don't know a single club player who (a) believes that any county will actually be able to play club games on the weekend of April 28/29 in 2018, and (b) enjoys the "two season" aspect, and having to be championship ready at a time when there can still be a touch of frost on the ground when you get up in the morning. 

And yes, the new system means that most counties (at least 21/32, all bar 8 football and 3 hurling) will be done by mid-July. But what of the other 11?

(4) On top of all this, PD has overseen a dramatic growth in a new phenomenon, that of underage county development squads. Now we have the farcical situation where under-14 club teams can't get games played, because they can't get access to their players. We see county under-16 panels playing anything from six to ten "competitive" games in a summer, where managers demand access to the players and club fixtures can't be played. How is that not elitist? 

I like the U-20 development, it has always defied logic that players would play at that age (or U21) and senior as well. I'll give credit for that certainly.

(5) Another new evolution in GAA has been the amount of time involved in playing intercounty, which in turn means that whole swathes of people are ruled out, purely because their employers aren't able to be as flexible. And yes, that feeds into elitism, because it means that if you have a Tesco employee in Kinlough, playing for Melvin Gaels, and another five miles down the road in Bundoran, playing for Realt na Mara, and they are both potential county players - the county with the far greater level of funding (in this case Donegal) has a far better chance of getting their player a handy job that's compatible with playing county, while the guy in Leitrim has no option but to keep his job with all the weekend and evening hours that are incompatible with joining a county panel.

There will always be counties with wealthy backers, and the teacher will always have a massive advantage over the "9-5:30, 4 weeks annual leave" professional, but we've long passed the time for the top administrators in the GAA to shout stop - and they never have.



You say there are no details - there's just a handful of details, and in every instance PD has either stood back and done nothing, or overseen a continued decline, or in the case of the GPA, actively fed the parasite within. Again, I fully agree that he has only ever acted out of good will, but he has always been a man who has acted within the constraints of what he perceives to be the inevitable future of the GAA that no-one truly wants, but he feels powerless to stop. In comparison with the job done by Liam Mulvihill, I'm afraid he's in the ha'penny place.
But there is absolutely a need for an organisation like the GPA. And it has to be administered by professional staff.

Different people have different ideas about championship formats. Lots of people who claim to have the best interests of the GAA at heart (hello Joe Brolly) want a two tier or a three tier championship format. That to me sounds like a great way to kill off many county teams. That's actual elitism, from the very people who claim to be against it.

In administrative terms, you describe a problem which lies at club and county level and a problem of the calibre of person involved, not a problem at the national administrative level.

Is round robin or back door at club championship level not "elitist" too? Why is having more games "elitist" at county level but not at club level?

You say "nobody wants to go back to straight knock-out", either at club or county level, but yet they want those games to cut across each other's seasons.

"Fitting games in" (at club level) is the operative phrase here, and that's a fool's game. The answer is to completely separate county and club championship seasons.

Moving the All-Ireland finals forward helps in this regard, but you could easily argue they should be moved forward further, to the end of July or the start of August, if this problem is to be fully addressed.
 
The amount of time involved in playing inter-county has always been "on the increase". It was on the increase in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, and the 00s. That isn't driven by "the top table". It's driven by ever-increasing standards which are driven by the players themselves. The increase in standards and in the amount of time needed is driven by the human capacity and the natural human drive for self-improvement.

I'm not really sure where you're going with the Donegal/Leitrim comparison. Donegal isn't exactly an economic powerhouse. There are few counties which are. You argument appears to have either a problem with economics and the jobs market, or is one where you advocate the actual standards of the games should drop across the board. That isn't going to happen because players won't let it happen.

There is no system and no format under which the likes of Leitrim will thrive at inter-county level. Economics and population will always see to that. That's the fact of the county system on which the whole of the GAA is based.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 03:14:36 PM
LS, I'll let Sid digest that and respond as many of the points I'd be in agreement with. However, just on the development squads, I'm not sure where you are getting that info?

I'm involved in Tipp, and Clubs are absolutely #1 when it comes to access to players. In fact I rang clubs on a Thursday to insist that lads on my squad played with their clubs on that Thursday night, despite our 'tournament' being on the Saturday. We organise training, and games around club availability, and in a county like Tipp with 4 divisions all operating off separate calendars, that is not easy.

We also only play that 1 tournament, so I'm not sure where the 6-10 competitive games comes from.

I'm not sure what counties you are referring to, so maybe it's different in other counties, but there are guidelines laid down about Development Squad sessions, and the pre-eminence of club activities, so that may be a county or counties actually breaching guidelines set down by the GAA.

I'm conscious of the fact that other counties may do things differently, and I'm certainly going to defer to your firsthand experience. Tipp seem to treat development squads like, well, development squads, as opposed to championship panels - sadly that's not always the case.

I will say that at under-16 level (for example) a Connacht team might enter the Ted Webb Cup, and the Fr. Manning Cup, and have prep matches for both. If a county side went well in both of those, they could easily play four games in each. You will have the odd player involved in both hurling and football as well.

And what happens in a lot of counties (here in Roscommon included) is that there will be a week where there might be no U16 or minor fixtures, to allow these county games.

And you can end up with a situation like my (adopted) club had this summer, when we had a club championship U16 game scheduled for a Friday evening, but half a dozen lads were selected to go to Donegal for a hurling blitz with the county on the Saturday. Our opponents aren't a dual club, so wouldn't have had any hurlers. We were given two choices (1) play on the Friday evening, without the county players , or (2) play it on the Sunday morning, after your six guys have had a 300-mile round trip the previous day, and played 2/3 competitive hurling matches into the bargain. Of course there was always option three, concede a walkover.

Offaly aren't as bad as Roscommon, but not as good as you describe in Tipp either. And this from Joe Brolly (leaving out the hyperbole, just focusing on the facts) would suggest that other counties are not following guidelines either.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/columnists/joe-brolly/joe-brolly-dysfunction-and-humiliation-summed-up-in-one-hypocritical-letter-36184759.html   (http://www.independent.ie/sport/columnists/joe-brolly/joe-brolly-dysfunction-and-humiliation-summed-up-in-one-hypocritical-letter-36184759.html)

This is the key bit from the above piece:

Quote
To ensure that the clubs remain the priority, the letter continues: "The county minor squad will only have pitch sessions on Mondays and Thursdays with a gym session on Saturday morning, and to minimise disruption, the under 17 squad will mirror this schedule."
This doesn't take into account matches and challenge games, which means effectively a four-day-a-week county commitment for 15, 16, 17 and 18-year-olds, starting in January.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 03:21:14 PM
Before Sid Waddell came in with his comments regarding "elitism", it should be noted that the word had only been used once on this thread. That isn't the cry here. More than a few people had referred to the fact that in their view (and I'm in this group), Paraic Duffy's administration was notable for a huge drive towards the monetization of our big games, and a very commercial focus, as opposed to focussing on what's best for the development of our games overall.
Also, the GAA has a duty to monetise the games as much as possible.

This is not a new thing.

This is exactly what the Croke Park redevelopment, with its corporate boxes and conference facilities, was designed to do. That was 1992.

That's what sponsorship was designed to do. Sponsorship is not a new thing. The All-Stars were sponsored when they began in 1971, by a tobacco firm, no less. Shirt sponsors have been around since 1991 and the All-Ireland championships themselves have been sponsored since 1994. Club championships are sponsored.

Concerts at GAA venues have been happening for decades.

Croke Park was opened up to other sports.

Should the GAA not try to get a fair price for TV rights?

Where does the money for the grass roots come from?

What's "acceptable monetisation", and what's not?





Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
Acceptable monetisation is when you never lose sight that you are raising money to support the games, not trying to arse around with the games just to raise more money. If the bottom line drives strategic thinking, then it will influence tactical decisions.

With all due  respect for others' opinions on this, my feeling is that the PRIMARY driver behind the super 8 is financial. More games, bigger attendences and more money. I don't believe it was done as an attempt to help the club season in any way, and I don't believe it was done in a bid to make the All Ireland series more open in any way.

I also believe the next proposal will be around a champions league style format, with even more games being played.

I believe Dublin playing all their home games in the League is a decision based on financial reasons, rather than what's good for the games.

I also believe that Duffy and the other lads genuinely believe this is in the GAA's best interests. I wouldn't doubt that for a moment. I just question it when the tail starts to wag the dog.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2017, 03:42:20 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html

Compared to Nicky Brennan, my ma is a better sports administrator FFS!
So what did Nicky Brennan do wrong?
The man was a top dog in the very successful Glanbia.

Good adult  debate Sid and the 2 Midlands bucks.
Could I ask AZ and Shark how they'd solve what they see as problems between Club/County  or do to rectify what they see as wrongs all instigated by Duffy ( who must be the subject of envious  glances from Kim Jong Un) and/or the Top brass in HQ???
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 03:43:01 PM
But there is absolutely a need for an organisation like the GPA. And it has to be administered by professional staff.

Yes, and yes. However the GPA should be operating on the basis that they decide on a plan that they want to implement, whether that be third level scholarships, hardship funds, professional career development or whatever, and they go to the GAA and look for funding, advocate, and then central council makes the decision on where that fits into the heirarchy of needs, relative to infrastructure projects in Waterford, Games development officers in Longford and hurling promotion in Derry.

It should not be the case (but is, because PD signed off on it) that the GPA receives a huge chunk of money out of the GAA's rights income, with no instruction as to how to spend it, so it can all be spent on junkets for the lads over in America. How in the name of jaysus did that farcical schyte in Fenway Park serve anyone, except to be a great big boondoggle?

Moreover, nobody in the GAA seems to know what Dessie Farrell was paid, what went into his pension fund, or likewise for Dermot Earley? And I'm not saying that a role like that should pay peanuts, by all means a salary of somewhere in the €80,000 range would seem about right. But if that's all they're getting, why is that not on record, like most high level sporting salaries?

Different people have different ideas about championship formats. Lots of people who claim to have the best interests of the GAA at heart (hello Joe Brolly) want a two tier or a three tier championship format. That to me sounds like a great way to kill off many county teams. That's actual elitism, from the very people who claim to be against it.

In administrative terms, you describe a problem which lies at club and county level and a problem of the calibre of person involved, not a problem at the national administrative level.

Anybody's allowed suggest a championship structure change - but if the GAA was a proper, grassroots-led democracy, that change would come from the bottom up - not the top down. What club asked for a super 8? None. Can any person on this board, all of whom I assume are club members, or supporters at least, say that they heard of the Super 8 before Ard Comhairle proposed it? Of course not, because it was a suggested solution to a non-problem. The only thing it does is give more games, more promotion, more sponsorship opportunities to the best teams, and literally nobody asked for that, bar a few media heads who want a lot more Dublin vs Kerry and a lot less Carlow vs Wicklow.

The reference to a 2 or 3 tier championship is a straw man - nobody here mentioned it, PD hasn't mentioned it, it's not being discussed. Of course it would be elitist and wrong, but you're trying to shift the goalposts now.

And I take huge issue with the "calibre of person" comment. Keeping a club going is incredibly difficult, and time consuming. I'm a very minor member of the committee in my club, I do a lot less than most due to my work, and I don't have time to be considering motions for Congress that don't affect us.

Many of these motions aren't explained, aren't canvassed, knock on effects aren't explored, and that absolutely is a national issue.



Is round robin or back door at club championship level not "elitist" too? Why is having more games "elitist" at county level but not at club level?

You say "nobody wants to go back to straight knock-out", either at club or county level, but yet they want those games to cut across each other's seasons.

"Fitting games in" (at club level) is the operative phrase here, and that's a fool's game. The answer is to completely separate county and club championship seasons.

Moving the All-Ireland finals forward helps in this regard, but you could easily argue they should be moved forward further, to the end of July or the start of August, if this problem is to be fully addressed.


I never said that it was a bad thing that there are more games, at club or county. My point is that the summer, as we all learned it in school, is clearly defined - it's May, June and July. The county scene has devoured those three months, to the point that some counties get some club games in there, others don't, and that's not going to change now. Yes, I agree with two distinct seasons, but then why all this April fuss? Surely just finish the Intercounty in July as opposed to August, and let the county games get played in April as well. JAnuary to June for Intercounty, with AI semis and finals in July. Club from July to November - that would be far more fair.

I take your point that you're in agreement with this, but the topic up for debate here is Paraic Duffy's tenure, and he's not on that page at all.

I'm not really sure where you're going with the Donegal/Leitrim comparison. Donegal isn't exactly an economic powerhouse. There are few counties which are. You argument appears to have either a problem with economics and the jobs market, or is one where you advocate the actual standards of the games should drop across the board. That isn't going to happen because players won't let it happen.

There is no system and no format under which the likes of Leitrim will thrive at inter-county level. Economics and population will always see to that. That's the fact of the county system on which the whole of the GAA is based.

This goes back to what I said earlier - I have no problem accepting that things are naturally progressing down a certain path, but that doesn't mean you just shrug your shoulders and let it be. Of course Leitrim will never be on an even footing with other teams, but surely you still try and promote that? I interviewed one county player last year for a local paper and he confirmed to me that he gave up a career in law to become a teacher, all because he was told by senior management that there was no way he could pursue a legal career and an intercounty football one side by side, so he had to "choose what he wanted more". That man had zero interest in teaching, at least when I spoke to him, but he wanted to play intercounty, so there it is.

Even if there's nothing that Duffy, or the GAA generally, can do to move things back the other way, you have to try - and there are a myriad of ways of doing that. You can balance the scale financially, you can actively enforce the amateur ethos, you can add transparency to all development officer appointments, and lots more. You'll never be able to stop Johnny's Menswear from giving Jimmy footballer a free suit in exchange for a tweet and an instagram post, but that doesn't mean that you don't throw the smaller counties a bone and at least TRY to do something, surely. 
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2017, 03:43:30 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html

Compared to Nicky Brennan, my ma is a better sports administrator FFS!
So what did Nicky Brennan do wrong?
The man was a top dog in the very successful Glanbia.

What exactly does that have to do with the GAA?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 03:47:33 PM
Acceptable monetisation is when you never lose sight that you are raising money to support the games, not trying to arse around with the games just to raise more money. If the bottom line drives strategic thinking, then it will influence tactical decisions.

With all due  respect for others' opinions on this, my feeling is that the PRIMARY driver behind the super 8 is financial. More games, bigger attendences and more money. I don't believe it was done as an attempt to help the club season in any way, and I don't believe it was done in a bid to make the All Ireland series more open in any way.

I also believe the next proposal will be around a champions league style format, with even more games being played.

I believe Dublin playing all their home games in the League is a decision based on financial reasons, rather than what's good for the games.

I also believe that Duffy and the other lads genuinely believe this is in the GAA's best interests. I wouldn't doubt that for a moment. I just question it when the tail starts to wag the dog.

This "arseing" around with the games, as you call it, began in 1997 when the hurling championship format was changed.

The championship format has never been designed to make it "open".  Provincial championships, some of which are much more competitive than others, wouldn't exist otherwise.

The only format you can have that would maximise "openness" is a 32 team open draw knockout format, like the FA Cup.

You could run that off in five weeks.

Any other format will not maximise a championship's "openness".

But there is a general agreement that whatever approach should be taken, that is not it, because there needs to be a balance struck between training and games, and the GAA has to maximise its showpiece competitions in terms of media exposure, because, like it or not, the GAA is competing against professional sports in this regard, and yes, money.

Of course Dublin play their home league games at Croke Park for financial reasons. Why shouldn't they? Croke Park is in Dublin. It allows more people to come to the games.  And that's exactly where they played their league games up to and including 1995. I didn't hear anybody complaining about that then.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 03:55:07 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 12, 2017, 04:00:13 PM

But spare me the begrudgers comment sligoman2. I take offence at that. I begrudge nothing. I love the IC game, I love football, I love hurling and I love the club scene. Our clubs are struggling in my opinion, in terms of games and in terms of demands and availability of county players. In dual counties, the problem is magnified. I accept we need revenue generation to keep the club game alive too. So I'm not 'anti' IC. I am concerned that the drive to maximise the IC revenue streams is having an unintended knock on impact, and I'm concerned that the new changes will make that even more difficult for clubs , especially in dual counties.

I don't think my fears are unreasonable.

He can spare us all on the begrudgers nonsene comment. Nail on head with that post couldn't agree more.



my feeling is that the PRIMARY driver behind the super 8 is financial. More games, bigger attendences and more money. I don't believe it was done as an attempt to help the club season in any way, and I don't believe it was done in a bid to make the All Ireland series more open in any way.

I also believe the next proposal will be around a champions league style format, with even more games being played.

I believe Dublin playing all their home games in the League is a decision based on financial reasons, rather than what's good for the games.

I also believe that Duffy and the other lads genuinely believe this is in the GAA's best interests. I wouldn't doubt that for a moment. I just question it when the tail starts to wag the dog.

Super 8 was brought in because attendances have been dropping. Its financial driven without a doubt and once that grows stale the next money making exercise (CL style format) is sure to replace it.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: johnneycool on October 12, 2017, 04:09:01 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html

Compared to Nicky Brennan, my ma is a better sports administrator FFS!
So what did Nicky Brennan do wrong?
The man was a top dog in the very successful Glanbia.

Good adult  debate Sid and the 2 Midlands bucks.
Could I ask AZ and Shark how they'd solve what they see as problems between Club/County  or do to rectify what they see as wrongs all instigated by Duffy ( who must be the subject of envious  glances from Kim Jong Un) and/or the Top brass in HQ???

Is Glanbia a sports organisation?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 04:13:05 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html

Compared to Nicky Brennan, my ma is a better sports administrator FFS!
So what did Nicky Brennan do wrong?
The man was a top dog in the very successful Glanbia.

Good adult  debate Sid and the 2 Midlands bucks.
Could I ask AZ and Shark how they'd solve what they see as problems between Club/County  or do to rectify what they see as wrongs all instigated by Duffy ( who must be the subject of envious  glances from Kim Jong Un) and/or the Top brass in HQ???

Sorry Rossfan, I missed this.

Firstly you're putting words in my mouth. Kim Jong Un? Really? I've already said that I think Duffy and co are doing what they believe is right in order to make sure the GAA is as profitable as possible, to reinvest the money.

I do like the U20 change, particularly that senior players can't play U20, so he's not all bad :)

Now, what would I do? I've said before that I would tie the league to a seeded championship, and play the championship off quickly in a straight knockout formula.

I'd enforce a rule that all Counties MUST allow club games, with county players, up to 7 days before the next county game. No 13 day rule.

I'd enforce a cap on expenditure on County Preparation, and I'd pay Auditors to enforce it.

I'd implement a standard development and coaching model, and fund it centrally, on a pro-rata basis. This money to be spent on coaching and games, not diverted into 'expenses'.

I'd let the Dubs play their home games in Parnell Park in the League, and I'd have every game up to the Semi Finals of the Leinster Championship (or the last 8 if open draw) at provincial venues.


Just a few things.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 04:22:19 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Clones is Monaghan's ground. Croke Park is not Dublin's.

Dublin's league matches should be in Parnell Park, and all games in the Leinster should be in provincial venues (neutral or home and home) until the Semi Finals at least.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 04:23:52 PM

But spare me the begrudgers comment sligoman2. I take offence at that. I begrudge nothing. I love the IC game, I love football, I love hurling and I love the club scene. Our clubs are struggling in my opinion, in terms of games and in terms of demands and availability of county players. In dual counties, the problem is magnified. I accept we need revenue generation to keep the club game alive too. So I'm not 'anti' IC. I am concerned that the drive to maximise the IC revenue streams is having an unintended knock on impact, and I'm concerned that the new changes will make that even more difficult for clubs , especially in dual counties.

I don't think my fears are unreasonable.

He can spare us all on the begrudgers nonsene comment. Nail on head with that post couldn't agree more.



my feeling is that the PRIMARY driver behind the super 8 is financial. More games, bigger attendences and more money. I don't believe it was done as an attempt to help the club season in any way, and I don't believe it was done in a bid to make the All Ireland series more open in any way.

I also believe the next proposal will be around a champions league style format, with even more games being played.

I believe Dublin playing all their home games in the League is a decision based on financial reasons, rather than what's good for the games.

I also believe that Duffy and the other lads genuinely believe this is in the GAA's best interests. I wouldn't doubt that for a moment. I just question it when the tail starts to wag the dog.

Super 8 was brought in because attendances have been dropping. Its financial driven without a doubt and once that grows stale the next money making exercise (CL style format) is sure to replace it.

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 04:24:54 PM
Zulu, serious question. Why do inter county teams need more games? It appears to be a truism, but I can't figure out why the Panacea is more games, more games. They have a 7 game league campaign, and at least 2 championship games.  Why is it accepted that we want more games?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 04:28:33 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Clones is Monaghan's ground. Croke Park is not Dublin's.

Dublin's league matches should be in Parnell Park, and all games in the Leinster should be in provincial venues (neutral or home and home) until the Semi Finals at least.
Clones has had Ulster Council money pumped into it over the years. So why should Monaghan benefit (devil's advocate and all that)?!

Do you think the money to build Croke Park had nothing to do with Dublin and all those big gates Dublin have drawn over the years?

Should the new Casement Park be built, with NI government money, are you suggesting Antrim not be allowed play league games there?

Should Dublin draw Kildare or Meath in a Leinster quarter-final, are you suggesting these games be played outside Croke Park?

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 04:30:00 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Straw man, straw man, straw man!
It seems clear to me anyway (at the risk of being seen to just wade in out of county loyalty) that AZ is using that as one of many examples of where a decision has been taken that is financially motivated. Now as it happens, I personally would be happy to see Dublin play league games in Croke Park, because if you can get 20,000 people into a GAA game, any GAA game, then you should certainly do so, I hate the idea of any supporters being un-necessarily locked out.

However that doesn't change the fact that many of the decisions that have been taken have no such basis - and chief among those is the Super 8. If you want to bring in more games for counties, bring them in for everyone, not just the big teams that need them least. It is impossible to justify that decision on any grounds other than monetary.


And yes, you are correct that there has always been a financial motivation, and there needs to be. But that should never be seen as the NUMBER ONE priority, and right now, there are a lot of Paraic Duffy decisions that come across that way.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 04:31:41 PM
What really bugs me is articles like this, proclaiming "the death of hurling". Pure, unadulterated shit.

Surprise, surprise, it's Eamonn Sweeney.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/eamonn-sweeney-lamentable-laughable-ludicrous-argument-for-hurling-restructure-ticks-all-the-boxes-36206429.html
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 04:32:39 PM
You seem to be missing my point Sid. Funding of those grounds is irrelevant. They are the COUNTY GROUNDS of those teams. Croke Park is not, and never was to my knowledge, the County Ground for Dublin. Sure that is shoved down our neck every time someone talks about home advantage. Even the tour of Croker is at pains to point that out, albeit the only teams that might get into Dublin's dressing room are Ard Mhaca and Aontroim.

We're spending a lot of time on this, but it's only an indication of the thinking. Let's get Dublin playing in Croker rather than Parnell. Why? Because we'll get bigger crowds and more money.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 04:33:10 PM
Ok, are you saying they don't? That's fine, I've no issue with anyone who feels that way. I think we do need to have plenty of high profile games to promote our sport in an increasingly saturated TV sports environment. I also think that any team should have a decent number of games to training.

I was listening to a podcast regarding the new hurling format and all the players on the show said they wanted more games. So players want more games, fans want more games and the GAA benefits with more games. The issue is things like the provincials and having two separate competitions (league and championship). I see no reason we can't give IC players more competitive games in a shorter timeframe.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Clones is Monaghan's ground. Croke Park is not Dublin's.

Dublin's league matches should be in Parnell Park, and all games in the Leinster should be in provincial venues (neutral or home and home) until the Semi Finals at least.
Clones has had Ulster Council money pumped into it over the years. So why should Monaghan benefit (devil's advocate and all that)?!

Do you think the money to build Croke Park had nothing to do with Dublin and all those big gates Dublin have drawn over the years?

Should the new Casement Park be built, with NI government money, are you suggesting Antrim not be allowed play league games there?

Should Dublin draw Kildare or Meath in a Leinster quarter-final, are you suggesting these games be played outside Croke Park?

But it wasn't just Dublin's money. So Dublin should get to play there the same as everyone else. But using it as a home ground gives them a competitive advantage. There's no other way of looking at it.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 04:40:12 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Straw man, straw man, straw man!
It seems clear to me anyway (at the risk of being seen to just wade in out of county loyalty) that AZ is using that as one of many examples of where a decision has been taken that is financially motivated. Now as it happens, I personally would be happy to see Dublin play league games in Croke Park, because if you can get 20,000 people into a GAA game, any GAA game, then you should certainly do so, I hate the idea of any supporters being un-necessarily locked out.

However that doesn't change the fact that many of the decisions that have been taken have no such basis - and chief among those is the Super 8. If you want to bring in more games for counties, bring them in for everyone, not just the big teams that need them least. It is impossible to justify that decision on any grounds other than monetary.


And yes, you are correct that there has always been a financial motivation, and there needs to be. But that should never be seen as the NUMBER ONE priority, and right now, there are a lot of Paraic Duffy decisions that come across that way.
The examples of Monaghan and Antrim re Clones and the new Casement Park are not straw men.

They're examples of stadiums which were built or are planned to be built with large amounts of other people's money.

If one is against Dublin playing home league games in Croke Park on this basis, one has to be against Monaghan and Antrim playing in Clones or the new Casement Park on the same basis.

And as I've already said, where was the problem other people had with Dublin playing league games in Croke Park up to 1995?

I agree that if a round robin stage is introduced, it should be at the start of the championship rather than at the quarter-final stage, but then you'd have people saying that it rules out a shock by a minnow or effectively bars the likes of Fermanagh and Leitrim from ever having a chance to win their provinces.

There is no format that will keep people happy - in fact there is probably no format that will keep a majority of people happy.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 12, 2017, 04:45:04 PM
The irony with using Monaghan as an example is that they have played a few of their home league games away from Clones in recent years, in Castleblayney, Scotstown, even Inniskeen I seem to recall.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 04:46:07 PM
You seem to be missing my point Sid. Funding of those grounds is irrelevant. They are the COUNTY GROUNDS of those teams. Croke Park is not, and never was to my knowledge, the County Ground for Dublin. Sure that is shoved down our neck every time someone talks about home advantage. Even the tour of Croker is at pains to point that out, albeit the only teams that might get into Dublin's dressing room are Ard Mhaca and Aontroim.

We're spending a lot of time on this, but it's only an indication of the thinking. Let's get Dublin playing in Croker rather than Parnell. Why? Because we'll get bigger crowds and more money.
This is a bizarre line of argument.

So only Dublin should be barred from playing in a stadium which is in their county?

There were lots of Dublin club championship matches and county finals played in Croke Park over the years, by the way, certainly up to the 1980s.

Surely, to follow your argument, the Cummann na mBunscoil finals should be moved too? It's not the "county" ground, remember.



Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 12, 2017, 04:50:10 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.   

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lone Shark on October 12, 2017, 04:53:05 PM
I was listening to a podcast regarding the new hurling format and all the players on the show said they wanted more games. So players want more games, fans want more games and the GAA benefits with more games. The issue is things like the provincials and having two separate competitions (league and championship). I see no reason we can't give IC players more competitive games in a shorter timeframe.

(1) Players? Yes, they do - albeit I would question their motivation, in some cases. It can become a chicken and egg - (look what we're giving up, look at the demands, we need to be "looked after" better, etc.)
(2) Fans? Jury very much out. Irish fans, and GAA fans, have proven that they love meaningful, important, big games. I remain deeply unconvinced that they will travel in the same numbers to round robin games that don't have the same significance. In theory, a qualifier tie between (for example) Offaly vs Cavan should draw a similar crowd to a Leinster championship tie between Laois and Longford - but in practice, that's not how it works out at all.
(3) GAA? Is that not what we're discussing here? Certainly I don't think it's as clear cut as "the GAA benefits from more games" as a statement of fact. 
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 04:53:29 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Clones is Monaghan's ground. Croke Park is not Dublin's.

Dublin's league matches should be in Parnell Park, and all games in the Leinster should be in provincial venues (neutral or home and home) until the Semi Finals at least.
Clones has had Ulster Council money pumped into it over the years. So why should Monaghan benefit (devil's advocate and all that)?!

Do you think the money to build Croke Park had nothing to do with Dublin and all those big gates Dublin have drawn over the years?

Should the new Casement Park be built, with NI government money, are you suggesting Antrim not be allowed play league games there?

Should Dublin draw Kildare or Meath in a Leinster quarter-final, are you suggesting these games be played outside Croke Park?

But it wasn't just Dublin's money. So Dublin should get to play there the same as everyone else. But using it as a home ground gives them a competitive advantage. There's no other way of looking at it.

You've just proved my point as regards Monaghan with Clones and Antrim with the new Casement Park.

And obviously I'm not arguing that those counties shouldn't be allowed to play in a ground which lies within their own county.

I didn't say that Dublin don't have an advantage over other teams when it comes to the championship because they're more familiar with Croke Park. Obviously they do.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to play their league games there.



Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2017, 04:54:59 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.
Thosé numbers are shocking.
Emigration post crash and a dead football championship are probably the main reasons.

The four 2017 provincial finals had an average winning margin of 0-9, the four quarterfinals concluded with an average margin of 0-15, and the semi-finals’ concluding average was 0-9.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 04:56:06 PM
You seem to be missing my point Sid. Funding of those grounds is irrelevant. They are the COUNTY GROUNDS of those teams. Croke Park is not, and never was to my knowledge, the County Ground for Dublin. Sure that is shoved down our neck every time someone talks about home advantage. Even the tour of Croker is at pains to point that out, albeit the only teams that might get into Dublin's dressing room are Ard Mhaca and Aontroim.

We're spending a lot of time on this, but it's only an indication of the thinking. Let's get Dublin playing in Croker rather than Parnell. Why? Because we'll get bigger crowds and more money.
This is a bizarre line of argument.

So only Dublin should be barred from playing in a stadium which is in their county?

There were lots of Dublin club championship matches and county finals played in Croke Park over the years, by the way, certainly up to the 1980s.

Surely, to follow your argument, the Cummann na mBunscoil finals should be moved too? It's not the "county" ground, remember.

I don't think it's a bit bizarre, funnily enough. If you don't understand the concept of a county ground, versus the National stadium which happens to be in Dublin, then this line of discussion is over. But again, we are *constantly* told that this is not Dublin's home ground, so they should play in it, when they qualify to do so, like every other team in the country.

As regards Dublin GAA playing matches in there, and treating it like a county grounds, yes I think that is wrong. Why are they allowed do that?

As regards Cumann na mBunscoil finals,I wouldn't be pushed, but it does appear to be a bit cheeky if the Dublin County Board are just assuming it's for their own personal use. If it's our national stadium, and schools finals are allowed there, why don't we all lobby for a slot up there for our finals?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 04:57:40 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.

Sorry what does that prove?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 04:58:09 PM
Anyway, we've had several topics on this, and it's clear there's not really any agreement to be had so there's no point flogging it. The topic was about Duffy's tenure, and again, I see him as a decent man, with a clear focus on doing what he thinks is best, which is maximising the revenue for the GAA.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 05:00:45 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.

Sorry what does that prove?

I think it's showing that more games does not mean more people attending on a per game basis. It just means more people through the gate in total, when compared to the pre-qualifier total. But the interest waned over the years, and attendances are dropping year on year.

the Super 8 will increase attendances on a superficial level, because there's an extra chunk of games.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 05:02:38 PM
I was listening to a podcast regarding the new hurling format and all the players on the show said they wanted more games. So players want more games, fans want more games and the GAA benefits with more games. The issue is things like the provincials and having two separate competitions (league and championship). I see no reason we can't give IC players more competitive games in a shorter timeframe.

(1) Players? Yes, they do - albeit I would question their motivation, in some cases. It can become a chicken and egg - (look what we're giving up, look at the demands, we need to be "looked after" better, etc.)
(2) Fans? Jury very much out. Irish fans, and GAA fans, have proven that they love meaningful, important, big games. I remain deeply unconvinced that they will travel in the same numbers to round robin games that don't have the same significance. In theory, a qualifier tie between (for example) Offaly vs Cavan should draw a similar crowd to a Leinster championship tie between Laois and Longford - but in practice, that's not how it works out at all.
(3) GAA? Is that not what we're discussing here? Certainly I don't think it's as clear cut as "the GAA benefits from more games" as a statement of fact.

I think fans do want more games. There's been big crowds at many league and qualifier games, wasn't it 20K at Cavan and Dublin so I think there is clear evidence that fans will go to see matches between evenly matched teams who are trying to win the game. I think league games are proof positive that many division 1 or 2 games would get more than 20K if the league was taken more seriously.

I can't see how the GAA doesn't benefit from more IC games if we can accommodate them in a format that doesn't swamp the club game and I think we can with a more radical approach.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 05:04:51 PM
You seem to be missing my point Sid. Funding of those grounds is irrelevant. They are the COUNTY GROUNDS of those teams. Croke Park is not, and never was to my knowledge, the County Ground for Dublin. Sure that is shoved down our neck every time someone talks about home advantage. Even the tour of Croker is at pains to point that out, albeit the only teams that might get into Dublin's dressing room are Ard Mhaca and Aontroim.

We're spending a lot of time on this, but it's only an indication of the thinking. Let's get Dublin playing in Croker rather than Parnell. Why? Because we'll get bigger crowds and more money.
This is a bizarre line of argument.

So only Dublin should be barred from playing in a stadium which is in their county?

There were lots of Dublin club championship matches and county finals played in Croke Park over the years, by the way, certainly up to the 1980s.

Surely, to follow your argument, the Cummann na mBunscoil finals should be moved too? It's not the "county" ground, remember.

I don't think it's a bit bizarre, funnily enough. If you don't understand the concept of a county ground, versus the National stadium which happens to be in Dublin, then this line of discussion is over. But again, we are *constantly* told that this is not Dublin's home ground, so they should play in it, when they qualify to do so, like every other team in the country.

As regards Dublin GAA playing matches in there, and treating it like a county grounds, yes I think that is wrong. Why are they allowed do that?

As regards Cumann na mBunscoil finals,I wouldn't be pushed, but it does appear to be a bit cheeky if the Dublin County Board are just assuming it's for their own personal use. If it's our national stadium, and schools finals are allowed there, why don't we all lobby for a slot up there for our finals?
It's exactly the same concept with Clones.

Clones is the main provincial stadium, with the Ulster final always held there and lots of Ulster semi-finals held there.

Monaghan used to play their home championship matches in Castleblaney.

Then they switched to Clones when it was redeveloped in the mid 90s.

So, surely Castleblaney is their county ground, not Clones?

How many county grounds can a county have?

Or is just Dublin that can only have one?

I wouldn't have any problem with other counties staging their primary schools finals at Croke Park.

But I sure would have a problem with Dublin's being taken out.


Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 05:07:26 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.

Sorry what does that prove?

I think it's showing that more games does not mean more people attending on a per game basis. It just means more people through the gate in total, when compared to the pre-qualifier total. But the interest waned over the years, and attendances are dropping year on year.

the Super 8 will increase attendances on a superficial level, because there's an extra chunk of games.

But that's a multi-factorial thing AZ. I think people want to go to games but when it's between two 'losers' who may have been beaten comfortably in their provinces then the crowds suffer. Mayo fans went in huge numbers to their qualifiers as they believed in them, Carlow got great support with a bit of a run.

We seem to be one of the few sports in the world where some want less games, not more.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 05:08:52 PM
Clones is the county ground of Monaghan.
Thurles is the county ground of Tipperary.
Pearse Stadium is the county ground of Galway.
Croke Park is not the county ground of Dublin.

If you want to have 2 or 3 county grounds, then away with you. As long as they are formally identified as county grounds (like Birr and Tullamore in Offaly) with the responsibility that comes with that, then fire ahead.

If Dublin want Croke Park to be officially their county ground, then let them lobby for that. Until then, it should be treated as the GAA always say it is, laughably, as a neutral ground, unaffiliated to any one county.

Sin é.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 12, 2017, 05:09:32 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.

Sorry what does that prove?

I think it's showing that more games does not mean more people attending on a per game basis. It just means more people through the gate in total, when compared to the pre-qualifier total. But the interest waned over the years, and attendances are dropping year on year.

the Super 8 will increase attendances on a superficial level, because there's an extra chunk of games.
Nail on head again.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 05:11:37 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.

Sorry what does that prove?

I think it's showing that more games does not mean more people attending on a per game basis. It just means more people through the gate in total, when compared to the pre-qualifier total. But the interest waned over the years, and attendances are dropping year on year.

the Super 8 will increase attendances on a superficial level, because there's an extra chunk of games.

But that's a multi-factorial thing AZ. I think people want to go to games but when it's between two 'losers' who may have been beaten comfortably in their provinces then the crowds suffer. Mayo fans went in huge numbers to their qualifiers as they believed in them, Carlow got great support with a bit of a run.

We seem to be one of the few sports in the world where some want less games, not more.

I think any sport where the same players are being sought by multiple teams has cries for less games of one or the other. In soccer, the clubs want less International Games. In Rugby, they have to balance load or else play without their main players.

In the GAA, we have club x 2 and county x 1 for most of our county players, so something has to give. So far it's patently not the IC games.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2017, 05:13:20 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Clones is Monaghan's ground. Croke Park is not Dublin's.

Dublin's league matches should be in Parnell Park, and all games in the Leinster should be in provincial venues (neutral or home and home) until the Semi Finals at least.
Clones has had Ulster Council money pumped into it over the years. So why should Monaghan benefit (devil's advocate and all that)?!

Do you think the money to build Croke Park had nothing to do with Dublin and all those big gates Dublin have drawn over the years?

Should the new Casement Park be built, with NI government money, are you suggesting Antrim not be allowed play league games there?

Should Dublin draw Kildare or Meath in a Leinster quarter-final, are you suggesting these games be played outside Croke Park?

But it wasn't just Dublin's money. So Dublin should get to play there the same as everyone else. But using it as a home ground gives them a competitive advantage. There's no other way of looking at it.

You've just proved my point as regards Monaghan with Clones and Antrim with the new Casement Park.

And obviously I'm not arguing that those counties shouldn't be allowed to play in a ground which lies within their own county.

I didn't say that Dublin don't have an advantage over other teams when it comes to the championship because they're more familiar with Croke Park. Obviously they do.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to play their league games there.

They aren't grounds which lies within their county. They are the County Grounds for those counties. That's where CP and the Duds differ. It isn't their County ground. If allowing Dublin to play in CP gives them an advantage (Which we agree it does) then it shouldn't be allowed. It should be as simple as that. If Parnell doesn't have enough room to accommodate the league fans, then develop it. Don't hand Dublin another advantage. I don't expect this to change tbh. And there would be a down side to CP not getting as regular use. But it's a bit of a kick for other counties especially at the minute when Dublin are soaring that they get this added advantage as well.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 05:21:54 PM
Croke Park, we are constantly told when it suits, is not Dublin's home ground. Why do they play home league games in the National Stadium? That is absolutely a competitive advantage for them, and it is a decision which confers that advantage for a financial reason.

It may not matter a squat in the grand scheme of things, but it may, and it's a decision where the driving force was financial rather than games based.

The Super 8 motivation is around money, it's primary interest is not in whether this is good for the games or not.
Is it a competitive advantage to Monaghan to have their county final and home league games in Clones given that all Ulster finals are also played there?

Are you saying that Monaghan should be barred from doing that?

Because you appear to be suggesting Dublin should be barred from playing home matches in Croke Park.

Clones is Monaghan's ground. Croke Park is not Dublin's.

Dublin's league matches should be in Parnell Park, and all games in the Leinster should be in provincial venues (neutral or home and home) until the Semi Finals at least.
Clones has had Ulster Council money pumped into it over the years. So why should Monaghan benefit (devil's advocate and all that)?!

Do you think the money to build Croke Park had nothing to do with Dublin and all those big gates Dublin have drawn over the years?

Should the new Casement Park be built, with NI government money, are you suggesting Antrim not be allowed play league games there?

Should Dublin draw Kildare or Meath in a Leinster quarter-final, are you suggesting these games be played outside Croke Park?

But it wasn't just Dublin's money. So Dublin should get to play there the same as everyone else. But using it as a home ground gives them a competitive advantage. There's no other way of looking at it.

You've just proved my point as regards Monaghan with Clones and Antrim with the new Casement Park.

And obviously I'm not arguing that those counties shouldn't be allowed to play in a ground which lies within their own county.

I didn't say that Dublin don't have an advantage over other teams when it comes to the championship because they're more familiar with Croke Park. Obviously they do.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to play their league games there.

They aren't grounds which lies within their county. They are the County Grounds for those counties. That's where CP and the Duds differ. It isn't their County ground. If allowing Dublin to play in CP gives them an advantage (Which we agree it does) then it shouldn't be allowed. It should be as simple as that. If Parnell doesn't have enough room to accommodate the league fans, then develop it. Don't hand Dublin another advantage. I don't expect this to change tbh. And there would be a down side to CP not getting as regular use. But it's a bit of a kick for other counties especially at the minute when Dublin are soaring that they get this added advantage as well.
Casement Park is being built to be the main stadium in Ulster.

It isn't being built to be Antrim's county ground.

This is really tiresome.

Only in the GAA would you get people telling others they can't play a home game in a stadium which lies within their boundaries.

If Dublin didn't play there, there would be people complaining that Croke Park was a white elephant.

Some people are never happy.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on October 12, 2017, 05:24:29 PM
Raméis. It's the Dubs and the GAA who constantly tell us Croker is not their home venue. And then it is treated as if it were. Which is it?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2017, 05:27:54 PM
The GAA should be fighting for a new economic system that supports wages rather than asset bubbles
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 05:34:35 PM

Lads, claiming this without any evidence makes it no truer. The super 8's was a response to the demands of the counties and the limitations they placed on Duffy. I doubt very much it would be what he would have proposed if he had a free hand.

Perhaps those of you who feel it was just a monetary decision could tell us how we could provide IC teams with more games, keep the provincials and not impact on clubs?

In excess of 20K people attend league games and most IC teams want to play there so should Dublin have to play in a 10K stadium when 20-30K want to go to the game and both teams want to play there?
Some evidence for you. 



Man himself Mr Duffy recommend that the quarter-finals be replaced by two groups of four, playing off in round-robin format to increase those attendances figures.

Sorry what does that prove?

I think it's showing that more games does not mean more people attending on a per game basis. It just means more people through the gate in total, when compared to the pre-qualifier total. But the interest waned over the years, and attendances are dropping year on year.

the Super 8 will increase attendances on a superficial level, because there's an extra chunk of games.

But that's a multi-factorial thing AZ. I think people want to go to games but when it's between two 'losers' who may have been beaten comfortably in their provinces then the crowds suffer. Mayo fans went in huge numbers to their qualifiers as they believed in them, Carlow got great support with a bit of a run.

We seem to be one of the few sports in the world where some want less games, not more.

I think any sport where the same players are being sought by multiple teams has cries for less games of one or the other. In soccer, the clubs want less International Games. In Rugby, they have to balance load or else play without their main players.

In the GAA, we have club x 2 and county x 1 for most of our county players, so something has to give. So far it's patently not the IC games.

True, which is why I think the decision on the U20's is such a great one. We need to reduce the number of teams a player can play on so that all players can play more often. I said this before but we can have our cake and eat it if we reduce the number of teams you can play for. A player should only be able to play one code and one level at IC but they should all have plenty of games (10+ perhaps). Have an IC season and finish it then the club season can start or clubs can play leagues with reduced numbers during IC.

I just don't see more IC games as being the problem and I think we need this for promotion of our sport, finance generation and giving very talented players a level to aim for where they can test themselves against other high level players.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2017, 05:35:58 PM

However he acted as if he believed that the move to semi (or full) professionalism in the GAA was inevitable, and that his job was to steer the bobsled downhill, because there was no point trying to stop it.

He oversaw complete and utter capitulation to the GPA agenda, and consequently has made it incredibly difficult for the next occupant of the role to change that trajectory. To give the GPA such power and resource without any level of accountability or oversight strikes me as completely counter to the ideals of the GAA, and it will be very hard to unwind. I firmly believe that in the future we're going to have an Angela Kerins/REHAB style moment within the GPA when somebody lifts the lid on the finances in that organisation, and that has been facilitated by the GAA's petrified stance in any sort of face off with that body.

I'd also broadly fall in line with AZOffaly's view, that he often saw revenue generation as a worthy goal in itself, rather than a necessary aspect to fund the promotion of all gaelic games across the entire country. Again, I've no doubt that the GPA approves of this too, since it makes sense to fatten the calf as much as possible before killing it.


Ultimately however, I believe that this approach didn't emanate from any will to do harm to the GAA, but far more a sense that we're on the cusp of a professional era, and that all that it was in his power to do was to manage the transition as much as possible.

I agree with you on the lack of oversight of the GPA, but on the other hand it's better to have them inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in. "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer" type of thing. I feel like the GPA have been as close to neutralized as they can be for now, but if they were out on their own and still posting belligerent press releases attacking the GAA I feel like we'd be in much worse shape.

My only gripe is that the vast majority of criticism gets heaped on the GAA because of its willingness to accept big corporate money (even though the vast majority of it goes to a good cause, namely reinvestment in the grass roots) while the GPA openly brags about the million dollars they're going to make from their "star-studded" fundraisers in NY, we know they're going to pocket the money, and nobody seems to say boo to them. What's up with that?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2017, 05:41:15 PM
Zulu sees a chart that shows attendances continue to fall even as the economy is nearly fully recovered from the recession (so one cannot write it off as outside factors at play) and still holds fast to his position the Super 8 wasn't entirely a device to paper over a crack that is more of a chasm now. In 2018 whoever replaces Duffy will release a press release advertising a rise in attendances and revenue, which will then be trumpeted on the back page of the Indo and Times, everyone happy to pretend everything is rosy as a hollow few Euro are added to the bank balance in the short term.

Zulu's beloved Dublin may be sweeping up all before them, but the rest of us are losing interest even bothering to attend, nevermind actually play. Duffy has left the GAA at one of the darkest points in its history and has contributed handsomely to that position - you can't even make a point he was a neutral force in reaching his situation of haves and have nots and a general public whose interest has long been on the wane.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2017, 05:53:46 PM
Darkest point in GAA history????
FFS is that "history" since you were born or what?
Read the actual history of  the GAA sometime.
1890s were pretty dark ;)
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 05:54:53 PM
The evidence that my eyes have seen tells me attendances have risen considerably this year, under the exact same format as last year.

But that won't suit the agenda of some.



Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 12, 2017, 06:09:05 PM
The evidence that my eyes have seen tells me attendances have risen considerably this year, under the exact same format as last year.

But that won't suit the agenda of some.
Probably due to Mayos more than expected games than anything else if that is the case. As Zulu said above Mayo fans went in huge numbers to their qualifiers as they believed in them but what happens when Mayo eventually go into decline and are faced with number of years of transition? The view is the Mayo support was always great which is not true as you only have to go back to 2011 to know less that huge numbers turned up for Mayo games then. 
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2017, 06:11:59 PM
The evidence that my eyes have seen tells me attendances have risen considerably this year, under the exact same format as last year.

But that won't suit the agenda of some.

It wouldn’t suit the agenda of you to point out the replays this year either.

Darkest point in GAA history????
FFS is that "history" since you were born or what?
Read the actual history of  the GAA sometime.
1890s were pretty dark ;)


Are you deliberately misquoting me, or did you actually manage to misread what was said?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
Zulu sees a chart that shows attendances continue to fall even as the economy is nearly fully recovered from the recession (so one cannot write it off as outside factors at play) and still holds fast to his position the Super 8 wasn't entirely a device to paper over a crack that is more of a chasm now. In 2018 whoever replaces Duffy will release a press release advertising a rise in attendances and revenue, which will then be trumpeted on the back page of the Indo and Times, everyone happy to pretend everything is rosy as a hollow few Euro are added to the bank balance in the short term.

Zulu's beloved Dublin may be sweeping up all before them, but the rest of us are losing interest even bothering to attend, nevermind actually play. Duffy has left the GAA at one of the darkest points in its history and has contributed handsomely to that position - you can't even make a point he was a neutral force in reaching his situation of haves and have nots and a general public whose interest has long been on the wane.

You'll be due another feed soon so that'll give the rest of us the opportunity to discuss as adults for a while. Once your mother brings your wind up you might even doze off for the night and we'll have a full nights peace.

There are more factors than the economy that feed into attendances but the rest of us know that.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Zulu on October 12, 2017, 06:20:09 PM
The evidence that my eyes have seen tells me attendances have risen considerably this year, under the exact same format as last year.

But that won't suit the agenda of some.
Probably due to Mayos more than expected games than anything else if that is the case. As Zulu said above Mayo fans went in huge numbers to their qualifiers as they believed in them but what happens when Mayo eventually go into decline and are faced with number of years of transition? The view is the Mayo support was always great which is not true as you only have to go back to 2011 to know less that huge numbers turned up for Mayo games then.

Yes, Mayo contributed but if Meath, Kildare or Armagh for example start to go better there could easily be a significant increase with or without Mayo.

Sticking to the topic, Duffy has done a lot of very good things and it's ridiculous for lads who wouldn't know half of what he does or how he does it to roundly criticise him for managing the natural growth of the GAA.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 06:23:44 PM
The evidence that my eyes have seen tells me attendances have risen considerably this year, under the exact same format as last year.

But that won't suit the agenda of some.

It wouldn’t suit the agenda of you to point out the replays this year either.

There was a replay in the All-Ireland football final last year.

There was a replay in the All-Ireland hurling semi-final last year.

There was a replay in the All-Ireland football semi-final in 2015.

And 2014.

There was a replay in the All-Ireland hurling final in 2014.

And 2013.

And 2012.

All-Ireland football semi-final attendances - up.
All-Ireland hurling semi-final attendances - up.
All-Ireland football quarter-final attendances - up.
All-Ireland hurling quarter-final attendances - up.
Provincial championship attendances - up.
Qualifier attendances - up.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 12, 2017, 06:40:07 PM
The evidence that my eyes have seen tells me attendances have risen considerably this year, under the exact same format as last year.

But that won't suit the agenda of some.
Probably due to Mayos more than expected games than anything else if that is the case. As Zulu said above Mayo fans went in huge numbers to their qualifiers as they believed in them but what happens when Mayo eventually go into decline and are faced with number of years of transition? The view is the Mayo support was always great which is not true as you only have to go back to 2011 to know less that huge numbers turned up for Mayo games then.

Yes, Mayo contributed but if Meath, Kildare or Armagh for example start to go better there could easily be a significant increase with or without Mayo.

Sticking to the topic, Duffy has done a lot of very good things and it's ridiculous for lads who wouldn't know half of what he does or how he does it to roundly criticise him for managing the natural growth of the GAA.
It is part of the topic though as Duffy was the director of operations as attendances dropped and the super 8 is his idea which will only be a short time fix to rise those attendances. If Meath,Kildare and Armagh and other counties like them go 3 years without reaching the super 8 the gap between them and top teams will only increase.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
Zulu sees a chart that shows attendances continue to fall even as the economy is nearly fully recovered from the recession (so one cannot write it off as outside factors at play) and still holds fast to his position the Super 8 wasn't entirely a device to paper over a crack that is more of a chasm now. In 2018 whoever replaces Duffy will release a press release advertising a rise in attendances and revenue, which will then be trumpeted on the back page of the Indo and Times, everyone happy to pretend everything is rosy as a hollow few Euro are added to the bank balance in the short term.

Zulu's beloved Dublin may be sweeping up all before them, but the rest of us are losing interest even bothering to attend, nevermind actually play. Duffy has left the GAA at one of the darkest points in its history and has contributed handsomely to that position - you can't even make a point he was a neutral force in reaching his situation of haves and have nots and a general public whose interest has long been on the wane.

You'll be due another feed soon so that'll give the rest of us the opportunity to discuss as adults for a while. Once your mother brings your wind up you might even doze off for the night and we'll have a full nights peace.

There are more factors than the economy that feed into attendances but the rest of us know that.

The irony of how childish a post this is is probably lost on you..
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2017, 07:14:38 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-best-sports-administrator-by-some-distance-460748.html

Compared to Nicky Brennan, my ma is a better sports administrator FFS!
So what did Nicky Brennan do wrong?
The man was a top dog in the very successful Glanbia.

Good adult  debate Sid and the 2 Midlands bucks.
Could I ask AZ and Shark how they'd solve what they see as problems between Club/County  or do to rectify what they see as wrongs all instigated by Duffy ( who must be the subject of envious  glances from Kim Jong Un) and/or the Top brass in HQ???

Is Glanbia a sports organisation?
He'd know a biteen about running a big organisation.
He was Chairman of Kilkenny Co Board and of Leinster and Uachtarán CLG.
I'd say he just might know a little more than your mother about Sports administration.
 And also managed Kilkenny footballers! !!!
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: tonto1888 on October 12, 2017, 07:23:07 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on October 12, 2017, 07:56:07 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?

Eh? That’s been a point of contention long before Dublin started hoovering up AIs. Weird thing to try to point to.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 08:11:27 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?
All three of them?

I suppose the GAA would have been better off without those 218,000 spectators coming through the gates of Croke Park for those three games, and the resulting money generated.

Far too elitist.

Would have been much better if they had been played in front of a cumulative 27,000 in Parnell Park.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 12, 2017, 09:00:02 PM
Well, if it's not complicated, surely you could tell us?

I was going bother... but after skimming through the rest of the thread decided you just aren't worth the effort and aren't taking on board anything anyone else has said. That said, I'll say a few words then leave you to it. Your obviously pretty desperate to have the last word with the others and I don't care enough to ensure otherwise.


Put simply, if you erode the foundations of any structure, it'll fall. Clubs, more precisely all the people that put so much of their own time into clubs, are the foundations of the GAA.

You can concentrate on the penthouse suites on the top floor - but it'll will reach a point where the rewards to the few piss off the many - and at that point the whole damn shebang could collapse.


- Clubs need consistent fixtures from April - Sept. Folks need to be able to plan work around it, plan holidays around it, get on with their home life around it. Maybe your life is such that you have relatively a lot of free time so are flexible if a game was moved back a night or to next week - others aren't necessarily in that position.
- County players are retiring ever earlier due to the training regimes they need to commit to.
- Dual players are on a hiding to nothing.

If Croke Park were allowed to change/make one rule and one rule alone - I'd recommend that it be simple; no club games can be moved or postponed to aid the intercounty team(s), and players cannot be prevented from playing in these fixtures.

If you think Paraic Duffy and those around him have not got a massive influence on what happens in congress then you are blind. We've seen in the past with well publicised cases back in the early 2000s how the administration at the top can block motions ever coming to the floor, never mind shaping the debate.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: tonto1888 on October 12, 2017, 09:24:25 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?

Eh? That’s been a point of contention long before Dublin started hoovering up AIs. Weird thing to try to point to.

It was a question. Not pointing to anything. I ask because it's only in the last couple of years that I have noticed it. That's not saying it didn't happen as I I've been living away for a long time until recently. Hence the question
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: tonto1888 on October 12, 2017, 09:25:08 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?
All three of them?

I suppose the GAA would have been better off without those 218,000 spectators coming through the gates of Croke Park for those three games, and the resulting money generated.

Far too elitist.

Would have been much better if they had been played in front of a cumulative 27,000 in Parnell Park.

You have lost me with this
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 10:07:04 PM
Well, if it's not complicated, surely you could tell us?

I was going bother... but after skimming through the rest of the thread decided you just aren't worth the effort and aren't taking on board anything anyone else has said. That said, I'll say a few words then leave you to it. Your obviously pretty desperate to have the last word with the others and I don't care enough to ensure otherwise.
This is a discussion forum. It was a simple question.

Put simply, if you erode the foundations of any structure, it'll fall. Clubs, more precisely all the people that put so much of their own time into clubs, are the foundations of the GAA.
How is Padraic Duffy "eroding the foundations" of the GAA? This is one of these vague and vacuous claims that is often put out with no evidence to back it up.

You can concentrate on the penthouse suites on the top floor - but it'll will reach a point where the rewards to the few piss off the many - and at that point the whole damn shebang could collapse.
What "rewards"? The "rewards" for who?

- Clubs need consistent fixtures from April - Sept. Folks need to be able to plan work around it, plan holidays around it, get on with their home life around it. Maybe your life is such that you have relatively a lot of free time so are flexible if a game was moved back a night or to next week - others aren't necessarily in that position.
You say clubs need fixtures. Well, why don't the clubs play those fixtures? Simple solution - if you want games, you play the fixtures regardless of what players are available. They're called league games. If clubs won't play them, they are to blame for lack of fixtures.

The GAA is bringing in a system that will give greater certainty and greater time as regards fixtures but the facility already exists for counties to give more certainty as regards club championship. You have a window in April/May to play club championship. You can do that and carry on when your county's involvement in the championship is over, or you can wait until the county is out of the championship to start your club championship.

But if counties want to continue to engage in the fool's game of scheduling club championship games, which may or may not happen, in the gaps between inter-county championship games which may or may not materialise, that's their choice, and their to choice look like fools when those games can't be played, and their fault when players are left scratching the their holes.

- County players are retiring ever earlier due to the training regimes they need to commit to.
Are they? The evidence would suggest not.

Andy Moran, Stephen Cluxton and David Clarke are three of the four nominees for Footballer of the Year. All are at least 34.

Add in the numerous players 30 or over in this year's or last year's All-Ireland finals, such as Keith Higgins, Colm Boyle, Seamus O'Shea, Paul Flynn, Bernard Brogan, Philly McMahon, Diarmuid Connolly, Kevin McManamon, Chris Barrett, Ger Cafferkey, Michael Darragh McAuley, Denis Bastick and Alan Dillon.

Kerry were still relying on Kieran Donaghy and Donnacha Walsh this year. Kerry in this decade have been like Dad's Army, they've had so many players over 30. Tyrone relied on Colm and Sean Cavanagh this year. Donnacha O'Connor is Corks best forward at 36.

- Dual players are on a hiding to nothing.
When have they not been?

The era of the dual player at inter-county level didn't die out recently, it died out in the 90s.

Brian Corcoran and Sean Og O'hAilpin tried it and both gave it up pretty quickly. And the dual player at inter-county level was never much of a thing before then anyway.

At club level, Slaughtneil are Ulster senior champions in hurling and football with a load of dual players. The star player in last season's All-Ireland club hurling championship is better known as a footballer. Ballyboden won the club football All-Ireland with several dual players. Diarmuid Connolly is currently plugging away hurling with his club.

If Croke Park were allowed to change/make one rule and one rule alone - I'd recommend that it be simple; no club games can be moved or postponed to aid the intercounty team(s), and players cannot be prevented from playing in these fixtures.
Yeah, see how you get on with that one.

Club championship games have always been moved or postponed to aid county teams.

Do you know when the Derry county final in 1993 was played? I wonder can Joe Brolly remember the date? It was on December 26th. But this is a "new" problem, apparently.

If you think Paraic Duffy and those around him have not got a massive influence on what happens in congress then you are blind. We've seen in the past with well publicised cases back in the early 2000s how the administration at the top can block motions ever coming to the floor, never mind shaping the debate.
Of course Duffy has a major influence. He's the chief executive of the GAA. He's paid to lead the organisation.

The fact is that every change to championship formats is voted on by delegates, who represent counties and grass roots. Again, if people are not happy with what these people are voting for, they can vote to get rid of them and elect new people.

You appear to be ignoring the impetus for change that has come from within every sector of the GAA as regards the championship formats - the players, the GAA public and indeed the clubs.

The GAA has to evolve or it will die. A lot of people apparently don't want it to evolve.


Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2017, 10:09:05 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?
All three of them?

I suppose the GAA would have been better off without those 218,000 spectators coming through the gates of Croke Park for those three games, and the resulting money generated.

Far too elitist.

Would have been much better if they had been played in front of a cumulative 27,000 in Parnell Park.

You have lost me with this
Dublin played three home league games at Croke Park between 1996 and 2010. The cumulative attendance at those three games was 218,000.

I don't remember any objections.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: tonto1888 on October 12, 2017, 11:35:56 PM
Was there as much hooha about dublin playing heir home games at CP between 1996 and 2010?
All three of them?

I suppose the GAA would have been better off without those 218,000 spectators coming through the gates of Croke Park for those three games, and the resulting money generated.

Far too elitist.

Would have been much better if they had been played in front of a cumulative 27,000 in Parnell Park.

You have lost me with this
Dublin played three home league games at Croke Park between 1996 and 2010. The cumulative attendance at those three games was 218,000.

I don't remember any objections.

I was referring to championship games also
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Stall the Bailer on October 13, 2017, 12:01:50 AM
The basic aim of our association is the promotion of our games. I believe P Duffy should be judged on how well he did this.
I would agree with AZoffaly in that his intentions are right but focused on the wrong part of the GAA.
All changes, motions should be judged on the basic aim. More money and more fans going to games do promote our games. But the best promotion is participating in our games.  I believe more intercounty games make it more difficult for participation at other levels.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Buckass on October 13, 2017, 07:54:14 PM
As long as Jarlath Burns doesn't get in the door. He's been lining up a run for a long time
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Boycey on October 13, 2017, 08:24:17 PM
As long as Jarlath Burns doesn't get in the door. He's been lining up a run for a long time

Is Jarlath’s aim not the presidency rather than Paraic’s job.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Jim Bob on October 13, 2017, 11:25:37 PM
"Jarlath  - future president of the GAA "

How long has that been doing the rounds now!!!!!!!🙄🙄🙄🙄
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on October 13, 2017, 11:30:20 PM
"Jarlath  - future president of the GAA "

How long has that been doing the rounds now!!!!!!!🙄🙄🙄🙄

Hopefully for st least 50 years more
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: rrhf on October 13, 2017, 11:37:44 PM
Pat gilroy the man for this job. was he up for it before??
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: yellowcard on October 14, 2017, 12:01:16 AM
Pat gilroy the man for this job. was he up for it before??

I wonder is it any coincidence that Duffy only announced his intention to retire after Gilroy was in the race for the Dublin hurlers job.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: rrhf on October 14, 2017, 12:10:55 AM
Interesting. First gilroy and Banty appointed elsewhere as well this week.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: hardstation on October 14, 2017, 12:14:29 AM
"Jarlath  - future president of the GAA "

How long has that been doing the rounds now!!!!!!!🙄🙄🙄🙄
A long time and he said he had no interest for a long time too.

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2017/03/10/news/former-armagh-captain-jarlath-burns-to-stand-as-a-candidate-for-president-of-the-gaa-959883/

Things change in life.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 14, 2017, 12:41:51 AM
"Jarlath  - future president of the GAA "

How long has that been doing the rounds now!!!!!!!🙄🙄🙄🙄
A long time and he said he had no interest for a long time too.

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2017/03/10/news/former-armagh-captain-jarlath-burns-to-stand-as-a-candidate-for-president-of-the-gaa-959883/

Things change in life.
But nobody believed him. He wasn't called An Uachtarain at the school for nothing. He has been preparing the ground for many years politicking Unionists and the Shinners.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: theskull1 on October 14, 2017, 12:52:35 AM
Was cleared of/got away with that at the time Tony

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/school-principal-burns-cleared-over-tweet-that-sdlp-woman-had-face-like-the-back-of-van-34662846.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/school-principal-burns-cleared-over-tweet-that-sdlp-woman-had-face-like-the-back-of-van-34662846.html)
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 14, 2017, 08:08:53 AM
Correct, but it's not going to stop keyboard warrior begrudgers like Tony getting on his case.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 14, 2017, 09:10:08 AM
Correct, but it's not going to stop keyboard warrior begrudgers like Tony getting on his case.
Didn't realise that. Apologies and have removed it.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: yellowcard on October 14, 2017, 12:49:38 PM
I see Dick Clerkin asking a question on twitter asking whether your GAA club is in better health financially, organisationally and infrastructure wise. Given his Monaghan audience I think it is an example of confirmation bias from Dick. Monaghan clubs relative to the size of the county have received large levels of funding, in fact they must have the hughest proprtion of clubs with stands in Ireland. McCague, Duffy and McKenna have all had high ranking positions within the GAA and they have undoubtedly benefitted from that.

GAA clubs on the whole have improved drastically over the last generation in terms of infrastructure but the running costs have spiralled upwards also and it's the clubs who are ultimately paying for a select few such as county managers and the army of backroom people that go along with them. Increased levies from county boards and clubs now compulsory forced to fund raise on behalf of the county are new disguised methods of paying the wages of the 5% whilst the 95% do it as a sense of duty.

He also conveniently chooses to ignore the problem of decreased participation levels at adult senior level.
 
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: magpie seanie on October 16, 2017, 09:48:05 PM
Completely agree with LoneShark and AZ on this. I didn't have to time to get involved earlier but they've made the relevant points. Inter county is great but it's only the cherry on top of the icing on top of the cake. We should never, ever lose sight of that but I believe we have and that drift has sped up under Duffy's watch.

Getting kids playing the games is a far bigger barometer of success than attendance but the falling attendances are due to the football championship in particular becoming more and more meaningless bar or the Ulster teams and 5 or 6 others. Meaningless a bit strong perhaps but they're losing some of their appeal as we storm towards semi professionalism.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 12:37:03 AM
No riff raff need apply
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/flynns-company-in-search-for-gaa-boss-36413101.html
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 17, 2017, 08:53:45 PM
Quote
Interestingly, there are two references to business and commercial acumen.

"Strong experience of financial management and commercial acumen," is listed as the fourth requirement while the final one states that applicants must have "third-level, business-related qualification (min Level 8NFQ)".
Sounds like it's being teed up for McKenna so.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on December 19, 2017, 03:08:07 PM
Can he speak Irish?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: yellowcard on December 20, 2017, 12:36:05 AM
McKenna will not get this job, the potential public outcry and bad PR will see to that.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2017, 01:10:57 AM
The public won't give a tuppenny fcuk and how would it be bad PR?
Don't know anything about the chap though.
I presume Costello isn't in the running given his spoiled child whinge of a report to the Dublind Convention.
Liam Sheedy?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Shamrock Shore on December 20, 2017, 09:04:40 AM
McKenna will not get this job, the potential public outcry and bad PR will see to that.

No - cannot give it to another Longford man so soon after Liam Mulvihill.

My quiet money is on Liam Sheedy.............
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on December 20, 2017, 03:37:35 PM
McKenna will not get this job, the potential public outcry and bad PR will see to that.

No - cannot give it to another Longford man so soon after Liam Mulvihill.

My quiet money is on Liam Sheedy.............


There's been quite a few whispers about that alright.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on December 20, 2017, 04:51:53 PM
What’s Sheedy’s background?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: LooseCannon on December 20, 2017, 05:15:14 PM
What’s Sheedy’s background?
Works with BOI, or at least he did at one point.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Captain Scarlet on December 20, 2017, 05:23:38 PM
Has anyone mentioned Pat Gilroy here?
Christ, he built up a multi-million euro company. He managed a team to an All Ireland win and he is back in Ireland again full time.
I don't think there are many agin the man either. He always strikes me as decent and the fact he stopped that clapping to the Hill pre-match from the Dubs shows he isn't into BS.


Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on December 20, 2017, 05:45:20 PM
Has anyone mentioned Pat Gilroy here?
Christ, he built up a multi-million euro company. He managed a team to an All Ireland win and he is back in Ireland again full time.
I don't think there are many agin the man either. He always strikes me as decent and the fact he stopped that clapping to the Hill pre-match from the Dubs shows he isn't into BS.

Yes, stopping a team clapping at supporters is a really salient point for the position of director-general of the GAA.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2017, 05:47:11 PM
Up to Pat to apply whether we mention him here or not.
I presume our thoughts on suitable candidates won't have much bearing anyway -and especially if someone doesn't apply :(
Is Jarlath Burns in the running order are teachers now out?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Captain Scarlet on December 20, 2017, 05:56:18 PM
Has anyone mentioned Pat Gilroy here?
Christ, he built up a multi-million euro company. He managed a team to an All Ireland win and he is back in Ireland again full time.
I don't think there are many agin the man either. He always strikes me as decent and the fact he stopped that clapping to the Hill pre-match from the Dubs shows he isn't into BS.

Yes, stopping a team clapping at supporters is a really salient point for the position of director-general of the GAA.

That may have been just a little additional thing to show where he comes to things from a personal GAA standpoint. He cuts out BS.
But fair play for ignoring the fact that he has played inter-county, managed a team to an All Ireland on top of running a multi-million euro company in Dalkia.
Thanks for zooming in on that btw. Here is a bit on Gilroy in terms of him meeting your standards.

Former Dubs manager Pat Gilroy is one of the country's top businessmen. He is boss of Veolia Energy Ireland plc, a water, waste and energy management firm. Veolia is on an expansion drive with plans to boost its Irish workforce to 800 by 2019.
Gilroy won the All-Ireland senior football final with Dublin in 2011, having previously won it as a player in 1995.
His firm is part of the French-owned Veolia group and was renamed Veolia Energy Ireland plc from Dalkia Ireland plc in 2014.
Veolia still owns a 20pc stake in Luas operator Transdev, but is gradually winding down its transport assets in order to focus on its utilities solutions business.
Gilroy is an engineering graduate from Trinity College. He previously held roles in the ESB and Amdahl Ireland.
Gilroy worked as general manager of Dalkia in Ireland before becoming managing director in 2005. During the period from 2002 to 2008 the energy business grew from €14m turnover to €120m.
A former president of the Ireland-France Chamber of Commerce, he is well-known in Irish business circles as a board member of the SEAI and a member of the Ibec national council.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on December 22, 2017, 07:53:55 AM
The advertisement would suggest that they are looking for someone with a business background.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on December 23, 2017, 05:35:29 PM
PAUL ROUSE: Leading GAA’s new era is strictly business
   
   
Friday, December 22, 2017
There is a fascinating line in the job description issued by the GAA as it seeks a new Director-General.


New GAA president-elect John Horan at Croke Park's 16th annual senior citizen Christmas lunch with James Kell and Tom Mooney. Pic: Mark Stedman
It sits right at the very end of the advertisement and it reads: ‘Third level business-related qualification (min Level 8 NFQ).’ This is the only formal qualification sought from applicants for the position.

Other stipulations include things such as ‘Established leadership and influencing skills’, ‘Experience of policy development and strategic planning’, and ‘Proven ability to effectively manage multiple projects and priorities’.

These latter stipulations are all things that you would expect to find in terms of the scale of experience and ability of any individual who wished to take over such an important and prestigious position.

But looking for a formal ‘business-related qualification’ is something different. It places a premium on formal training in a particular area.

Why is this the case? Why does the Director-General of the GAA require formal training in business and not in, say, management systems or communications or project organisation?

The competition for the job is being run by Lincoln Recruitment Specialists who have been ‘exclusively retained’ for the purposes. The company is run by Shay Dalton and its Commercial Director is Paul Flynn, the Dublin footballer.

advertisement
Incidentally, it may be noted in passing that Paul Flynn is also the secretary of the inter-county Gaelic Players Association.

In setting out the job description, the GAA hierarchy — assisted by Lincoln Recruitment Specialists — stipulate that the successful candidate should have ‘Exceptional attention to detail.’ It is fair to assume that the people running the appointment process to hire such a person should themselves have ‘exceptional attention to detail’ and that they knew exactly what they were doing when they looked for a ‘business-related qualification’, as against any other.

It would be extremely interesting to know, then, why they have privileged business in the way that they have done.

As things stand, the logic of their job description is that you could have left university with a degree in, say, engineering or science or sports science or architecture, or an arts degree, and have subsequently embarked on a career as a successful manager (as many graduates from those disciplines do) but be ineligible to be appointed to the job of Director General.

Equally, you may never have been to college — never even have finished secondary school — but moved on to run a business or enjoy a hugely successful career, but be deemed unfit to run the GAA because you haven’t studied business to degree level.

How can that be justified?

Given that the GAA is blessed with a wide variety of exceptionally talented people who work tirelessly at all levels and with extraordinary success, why would you close the door on those who do not have a business-related degree?

The basic question is this: what is it, precisely, that motivates the insertion of that requirement?

Of course, if nothing else, the privileging of business reveals a fairly extraordinary shift in the operations of the GAA.

It is absolutely the case that times change and every organisation must reshape itself to adapt to circumstances. The extent of the reshaping underway in the GAA is laid bare in this job description.

Paul Flynn
What is also clear is the scale of the challenge that faces the person that will take the job. Another line in the job description notes: ‘The successful candidate will report to the Central Council while working closely with Uachtaran CLG, and will be responsible for providing leadership and direction to full-time and voluntary teams across the association at all levels.’

It is not easy to provide leadership, while reporting to a higher authority (Central Council) and at the same time ‘working closely’ with a president who probably thinks they’re in charge. The inter-personal skills and strength of character (not mention wisdom, patience, knowledge, and absurd amounts of good luck) demanded in fulfilling that aspect of the job are obvious and extensive.

Naturally, the job description also makes the obligatory bow towards the inspiration provided to the GAA by ‘its amateur status and supported by the voluntary efforts of its members’. Extending from this, there will be a responsibility towards ‘ensuring that the ethos and values of the GAA are preserved’ and delivering on ‘its mission, values, and strategy.’

The new Director General will be expected to lead on this. That should be interesting. Leadership, of course, is defined by deeds and not by words — at least, it should be. So, how will the new incumbent meet the challenge of balancing the shift towards professionalism that has been sanctioned over recent years against the needs to actually move beyond rhetoric in respecting the wider membership?

Will the new Director General continue to indulge the divide created between the self-proclaimed ‘elite athletes’ of the GPA and the needs of club players?

A starting point would be to identify the extent to which the supposed ‘ethos and values’ of the GAA have shifted to allow for such elitism to become essential to the operation of the GAA, the fulcrum around which all else turns.

All of which brings us back to the job description and the apparent need to be formally trained in business to meet the challenges of this job. Asserting the full formal qualifications of any other person is always a risky business, but it would appear that none of the five men (Luke O’Toole (1901-29), Padraig Ó Caoimh (1929-64), Seán Ó Síocháin (1964-79), Liam Mulvihill (1979-2007), and Páraic Duffy (2008-now)) who have held the office during the history of the GAA had a ‘business-related’ qualification when they assumed the position.

Still, if you happen to be interested — and suitably qualified — the closing date for applications is January 10, 2018.

And, as for the pay: ‘The remuneration package will reflect the responsibility of the role, the seniority of the position and the successful candidate’s level of experience.’ In other words, less than John Delaney gets for running the FAI, but tasty enough all the same.

Paul Rouse is associate professor of History at UCD
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2017, 06:11:53 PM
First requirement -knowledge and experience of GAA politics.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: DuffleKing on December 26, 2017, 08:10:21 PM

http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/279394

First step in positioning McKenna as a wholesome Association man and not a valueless commercial operator.

Did someone actually suggest renaming Croke Park? That’s as cynical as it gets.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on December 26, 2017, 08:15:20 PM
He says they won't get adequate Wifi in Croker because it would lead to an upsurge in gambling. What a crock.

a) Paddy Power, Ladbrokes etc all accessible over 4G anyway.
b) Most people would use wifi to either facebook or tweet. Big deal.
c) If you really, really wanted to, you could just blacklist the web sites.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: LooseCannon on December 26, 2017, 10:40:42 PM
He says they won't get adequate Wifi in Croker because it would lead to an upsurge in gambling. What a crock.

a) Paddy Power, Ladbrokes etc all accessible over 4G anyway.
b) Most people would use wifi to either facebook or tweet. Big deal.
c) If you really, really wanted to, you could just blacklist the web sites.

Exactly, similar to what schools do.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on December 26, 2017, 10:43:27 PM
Who are the main runners and riders?  I actually like Peter McKenna. Most of the stuff about him in this board is negative and wrongly so in my opinion
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on December 26, 2017, 10:59:04 PM
Who are the main runners and riders?  I actually like Peter McKenna. Most of the stuff about him in this board is negative and wrongly so in my opinion

Yeah, the GAA is going well.

:-\
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on December 26, 2017, 11:10:24 PM
Not sure what you mena by that, syferus.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: LooseCannon on December 26, 2017, 11:15:58 PM
Not sure what you mena by that, syferus.
I think he means that he wants Frank Feighan to get it. ;) ;D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on December 26, 2017, 11:33:35 PM
Syfīn has an irrational fear of HQ.
Then again Syfīn is irrational about most things..... :D ;D
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on December 26, 2017, 11:44:17 PM
Syfīn has an irrational fear of HQ.
Then again Syfīn is irrational about most things..... :D ;D

1,600,000 vs 64,000.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on December 27, 2017, 12:04:41 AM
So will appointing someone other than Peter McKenna remove a load of people from Dublin  and drop them into Ros?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 27, 2017, 01:18:56 AM
Syfīn has an irrational fear of HQ.
Then again Syfīn is irrational about most things..... :D ;D
For once I was going to agree with you but then I read it again....
At first glance I mistook the H for an I.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: seafoid on December 27, 2017, 03:32:13 PM
Say the Dubs win in 2018.
4 in a rows in the 2 sports within a period of 15 years is not a great sign of underlying health.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: orangeman on December 28, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
Say the Dubs win in 2018.
4 in a rows in the 2 sports within a period of 15 years is not a great sign of underlying health.



A sign of 2 simply outstanding teams who know how to win surely ?. Mayo could have been double champions but for ............. whatever, luck, bad luck etc but that's a different day's work. Tipperary could have won more when KK were at the top but again KK knew how to win.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on December 28, 2017, 01:06:51 PM
Say the Dubs win in 2018.
4 in a rows in the 2 sports within a period of 15 years is not a great sign of underlying health.



A sign of 2 simply outstanding teams who know how to win surely ?. Mayo could have been double champions but for ............. whatever, luck, bad luck etc but that's a different day's work. Tipperary could have won more when KK were at the top but again KK knew how to win.

Yeah, that explains why Dublin keep winning alright. Christ.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 28, 2017, 06:45:01 PM
Say the Dubs win in 2018.
4 in a rows in the 2 sports within a period of 15 years is not a great sign of underlying health.
A timely reminder from 1996 to 2010 Dublin footballers didn't even reach All Ireland final. 2011 to 2017 they have won 5 All Irelands and unlike Mayo the last few years they haven't needed the rub of the green to reach All Ireland finals.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on December 28, 2017, 06:56:55 PM
Say the Dubs win in 2018.
4 in a rows in the 2 sports within a period of 15 years is not a great sign of underlying health.
A timely reminder from 1996 to 2010 Dublin footballers didn't even reach All Ireland final. 2011 to 2017 they have won 5 All Irelands and unlike Mayo the last few years they haven't needed the rub of the green to reach All Ireland finals.

A timely reminder that the past counts for feck all. Judge today on today.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 28, 2017, 07:11:04 PM
Wouldn't be where they are today but for what was done in the past to improve them. That type of improvement made in a short space of time hasn't been seen in sport since Michelle Smith  ;)
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Jim Bob on December 30, 2017, 02:29:48 AM
Wouldn't be where they are today but for what was done in the past to improve them. That type of improvement made in a short space of time hasn't been seen in sport since Michelle Smith  ;)

Mmmmm
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 30, 2017, 02:48:44 AM
Wouldn't be where they are today but for what was done in the past to improve them. That type of improvement made in a short space of time hasn't been seen in sport since Michelle Smith  ;)

Mmmmm
Decent song by the Crash test Dummies.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on January 06, 2018, 04:50:39 AM
Eligibility crux over top job
Martin Breheny • 2 hours ago

Can't load image
                  
 

With four days to go before the closing date for applications for the GAA director-general's position, serious doubts surround the precise qualifications candidates require to enter the race.

It's an unfortunate situation in the process to fill one of the most prestigious posts in the country as it may lead to high-quality candidates not applying. Páraic Duffy, who has been director-general for the past 10 years, retires at the end of March,

The confusion arises over the stipulation in the advertisement that 'the person' should have a "third-level, business-related qualification (min Level 8 NFQ)".

That equates to an honours degree and, at face value, rules out potential contenders whose qualifications do not have a business element.

Of the 12 criteria mentioned in the advertisement, a "business-related qualification" is the only educational prerequisite specified.

It has sparked surprise in GAA circles, especially since the last four director-generals had extensive educational rather than business backgrounds.

It also raises the question of why the GAA's power-brokers deemed it necessary for the next director-general to have specialist business expertise when it did not previously apply.

However, it's now unclear if the business-related qualification requirement is binding, arising from a response to a question from the Irish Independent, submitted to Lincoln Recruitment Specialists, the Dublin-based company handling the appointment process.

We asked if it were absolutely essential to hold such a degree and were there any circumstances in which candidates without a business qualification would be considered.

The response from Shay Dalton, managing director of Lincoln Recruitment, was as follows:

"The purpose of the advertisement as detailed is to provide information about the nature of the role and its responsibilities and requirements. All applicants will be given full consideration, with the utmost confidentiality."

A follow-up question as to whether that included applicants without the specified business qualification went unanswered.

That will add to the confusion among those without business-related qualifications who believe they fit the criteria in every other way.

Mr Dalton's response states that "all applicants will be given full consideration".

Does that mean that the business element is not essential, despite appearing in the advertisement?

Or does it mean that only all applicants who fill the criteria in the advertisement will be considered? He did not reply to that query.

Among the possible candidates from outside Croke Park mentioned since Duffy announced his intention to step down last October are Dublin CEO John Costello, former Armagh footballer Jarlath Burns, now a school principal, former Tipperary All-Ireland winning manager Liam Sheedy, who is a member of the GAA's management committee, provincial secretaries Michael Reynolds (Leinster) and Simon Moroney (Munster) and Tipperary's Ger Ryan.

Internal Croke Park staff linked with the vacancy include Peter McKenna, Feargal McGill, Alan Milton and Tom Ryan.

Lincoln Recruitment, who handled the process which led to the appointment of Dermot Earley as CEO of the Gaelic Players' Association in succession to Dessie Farrell early last year, will play a major part in finding Duffy's successor, although the final call will be made by senior GAA officials, led by president Aogán Ó Fearghaíl and incoming president John Horan, who takes over at the end of next month.

Dublin footballer and GPA secretary Paul Flynn is commercial director with Lincoln.

 
Sponsored Content
 5 Best UK Online Casinos
5 Best UK Online Casinos
MindTheBet
 Did you have PPI? This simple check will tell you
Did you have PPI? This simple check will tell you
myfreecheck
 5 Online Dating Sites that Actually Work in the UK
5 Online Dating Sites that Actually Work in the UK
top10.me
 Over 60? This is Why You Should Release Equity
Over 60? This is Why You Should Release Equity
Telegraph Equity Release
by
Related Articles

New fixtures plan should help the players but calendar-year goal remains long way off for GAA

Martin Breheny: Deep mid-winter madness unfair on players and for what? So that nothing happens in April!
Read More Sport
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on January 06, 2018, 11:46:59 AM
Very disappointed not to see Mr. Prenty's name there.
Or was there a stipulation about dress?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Hardy on January 09, 2018, 08:57:53 AM
Another bullshit space-filler from Breheny.

From the wording of the advertisement, the business qualification clearly is not a prerequisite or an absolute requirement but a preference.

"The person should have a third-level, business-related qualification ...". If it was a prerequisite, the wording would be "must have".
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: munchkin on January 09, 2018, 12:17:20 PM
the business qualification requirement is now officially downgraded to a nice to have rather than a requirement.
Deadline extended to Friday the 19th

http://www.gaa.ie/news/deadline-extended-for-gaa-ard-stiurthoir-applications/
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: seafoid on March 08, 2018, 05:28:47 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0306/945397-once-im-finished-here-you-wont-hear-from-me-again/

It wasn’t that I was that busy at nighttime, but more that I was tired. I should have taken more advantage of living in Dublin - I went to the theatre and movies, but probably not as much as I should have done.

"That’s really all - I have no regrets about the job."

Duffy says he often took a can of Red Bull into the cinema or theatre with him just in case he was feeling sleepy to make sure he made it to the end without having to be woken by staff.

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2018, 05:49:17 PM
When will we have the white smoke for his successor?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: heffo on March 21, 2018, 10:21:05 PM
When will we have the white smoke for his successor?

Friday
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2018, 11:17:49 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/tom-ryan-the-favourite-for-gaas-top-job-36731078.html

Than again it's Breheny........
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: WT4E on March 22, 2018, 01:05:18 PM
Surprised by that.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2018, 02:43:10 PM
It's now official thay it's the Ryan chap.
Carlow man -they can't be stopped these days.
Best of luck to him.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 24, 2018, 03:53:36 PM
It's now official thay it's the Ryan chap.
Carlow man -they can't be stopped these days.
Best of luck to him.

Or you can't be stopped if you're already inside the paid Croke Park bubble. I expect no change to the status quo.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 24, 2018, 04:15:56 PM
Hopefully Mr Ryan is his own man and the decisions he makes in the years ahead are not influence more by money and profits than common sense.  As the former director of finance I have my doubts if he will do that though.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on March 24, 2018, 07:11:23 PM
Director of Finance gets the job. Reinforces my belief that money is the prime driver in the GAA today and all decisions are viewed through a prism of bottom line impact.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on March 24, 2018, 08:24:36 PM
Director of Finance gets the job. Reinforces my belief that money is the prime driver in the GAA today and all decisions are viewed through a prism of bottom line impact.
+1
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: trileacman on March 24, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
A Dublin club member and former director of finance, ffs, you'd think the GAA was trying to destroy my faith in them.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 24, 2018, 09:27:52 PM
He might do perfectly ok. Let’s see.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 24, 2018, 09:33:36 PM
He might do perfectly ok. Let’s see.

Oh ffs. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: yellowcard on March 24, 2018, 09:46:50 PM
 It a very reassuring appointment, wrong signal appointing a money man.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: trileacman on March 24, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
A reinforcement of the status quo. He's the director of finance so he's been running the GAA for the guts of 5 years now anyway, this appointment has just been his de jure coronation.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
That's the "end of the GAA as we know it " it seems.
Such negativity.
When did the GAA not try to maximise their income?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Esmarelda on March 25, 2018, 10:03:51 AM
That's the "end of the GAA as we know it " it seems.
Such negativity.
When did the GAA not try to maximise their income?
Is Rossfan a wee bit innocent?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 26, 2018, 09:44:30 AM
I hope the first thing he does is impose some financial control on the GPA

Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Seany on March 26, 2018, 11:28:56 AM
Some utterly ridiculous stuff here towards a man who hasn't even started his job.  Tom Ryan is more than a GAA paid employee, he is also a great GAA volunteer and is totally committed to all aspects of the GAA.  He is a brilliant appointment. 
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Jinxy on March 26, 2018, 11:40:40 AM
+1
Give the man a chance.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2018, 11:27:15 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/we-have-to-find-a-balance-between-making-a-profit-and-keeping-true-to-your-ideals-468776.html
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 27, 2018, 11:32:20 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/we-have-to-find-a-balance-between-making-a-profit-and-keeping-true-to-your-ideals-468776.html

He was the already the bag man for the GAA. Actions speak louder than words, and choosing a man inside the system with a background in fiance tells you everything you need to know about this guy and the GAA's goals. Status quo successfully maintained.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: WT4E on March 27, 2018, 11:41:01 AM
Paraic Duffy and Tom Ryan are too very different characters it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

He needs to be judged on what he does not by people like Brolly before he even gets started!
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 27, 2018, 11:46:06 AM
Paraic Duffy and Tom Ryan are too very different characters it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

He needs to be judged on what he does not by people like Brolly before he even gets started!

If he does anything to reverse the prevailing view of himself I'll change my opinion. I highly doubt it.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2018, 11:51:56 AM


He needs to be judged on what he does not by people like Brolly before he even gets started!
Correct .
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 27, 2018, 11:54:15 AM
Quote
Bums on seats was, however, viewed by Ryan as the “best barometer for everything else”.

His bottom line is bums on seats. Dublin have the biggest home support by miles but don't travel so getting Dublin to play in Croke Park as often as possible is going to ensure more bums on seats. Forget about fairness and equality all that matters is bums on seats. He's not off to a good start.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: munchkin on March 27, 2018, 01:53:05 PM
Quote
Bums on seats was, however, viewed by Ryan as the “best barometer for everything else”.

His bottom line is bums on seats. Dublin have the biggest home support by miles but don't travel so getting Dublin to play in Croke Park as often as possible is going to ensure more bums on seats. Forget about fairness and equality all that matters is bums on seats. He's not off to a good start.
If i read it right, they are quotes from a few years back, when he was being interviewed as GAA head of finance, on GAA finances, for a book dealing solely on the topic of GAA finances.

So if he says that attendances are the biggest money spinner, then as head of finance (as he was then), thats a quite important thing to be aware of ! 
If the head of finance spent the whole interview chatting about irrelevant stuff to his portfolio like maybe whether the white coats of an umpire were the best thing for them to be wearing, and he had no opinion or clue about finances, then THAT would be something to worry about.

It'll be interesting to see all right how he takes off the finance hat and puts on the general management hat, but he hasn't started yet so its a little early to make judgements. Unless he makes an almighty mess of it he could be there for the next 20 years, so I'm inclined to wait and see how things pan out.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 27, 2018, 02:12:00 PM
I would prefer if he was more socialist in his outlook than capitalist.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 27, 2018, 02:16:34 PM
Quote
Bums on seats was, however, viewed by Ryan as the “best barometer for everything else”.

His bottom line is bums on seats. Dublin have the biggest home support by miles but don't travel so getting Dublin to play in Croke Park as often as possible is going to ensure more bums on seats. Forget about fairness and equality all that matters is bums on seats. He's not off to a good start.
If i read it right, they are quotes from a few years back, when he was being interviewed as GAA head of finance, on GAA finances, for a book dealing solely on the topic of GAA finances.

So if he says that attendances are the biggest money spinner, then as head of finance (as he was then), thats a quite important thing to be aware of ! 
If the head of finance spent the whole interview chatting about irrelevant stuff to his portfolio like maybe whether the white coats of an umpire were the best thing for them to be wearing, and he had no opinion or clue about finances, then THAT would be something to worry about.

It'll be interesting to see all right how he takes off the finance hat and puts on the general management hat, but he hasn't started yet so its a little early to make judgements. Unless he makes an almighty mess of it he could be there for the next 20 years, so I'm inclined to wait and see how things pan out.

I love this wait and see attitude, as if he's some unknown quantity. Head in the sand.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: westbound on March 27, 2018, 02:54:19 PM
Quote
Bums on seats was, however, viewed by Ryan as the “best barometer for everything else”.

His bottom line is bums on seats. Dublin have the biggest home support by miles but don't travel so getting Dublin to play in Croke Park as often as possible is going to ensure more bums on seats. Forget about fairness and equality all that matters is bums on seats. He's not off to a good start.
If i read it right, they are quotes from a few years back, when he was being interviewed as GAA head of finance, on GAA finances, for a book dealing solely on the topic of GAA finances.

So if he says that attendances are the biggest money spinner, then as head of finance (as he was then), thats a quite important thing to be aware of ! 
If the head of finance spent the whole interview chatting about irrelevant stuff to his portfolio like maybe whether the white coats of an umpire were the best thing for them to be wearing, and he had no opinion or clue about finances, then THAT would be something to worry about.

It'll be interesting to see all right how he takes off the finance hat and puts on the general management hat, but he hasn't started yet so its a little early to make judgements. Unless he makes an almighty mess of it he could be there for the next 20 years, so I'm inclined to wait and see how things pan out.

I love this wait and see attitude, as if he's some unknown quantity. Head in the sand.

How much do YOU know about him syf?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 30, 2018, 09:15:11 PM
Serious question. If the GAA were losing money hand over fist every year, how would youse feel about it?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 30, 2018, 09:23:52 PM
Serious question. If the GAA were losing money hand over fist every year, how would youse feel about it?

It’s not a ‘serious’ question, rather a loaded one as the implication is quite obvious.

The GAA is not making profit simply because it is pumping stupid amounts of grant money into Dublin and likewise isn’t forcing it to share its monsterously high level of sponsorship money so the question doesn’t have much value in this debate.

Dublin are profitable because Gaelic football is a popular sport; it’s not the other way round.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Real Talk on March 30, 2018, 09:37:37 PM
Serious question. If the GAA were losing money hand over fist every year, how would youse feel about it?

It’s not a ‘serious’ question, rather a loaded one as the implication is quite obvious.

The GAA is not making profit simply because it is pumping stupid amounts of grant money into Dublin and likewise isn’t forcing it to share its monsterously high level of sponsorship money so the question doesn’t have much value in this debate.

Dublin are profitable because Gaelic football is a popular sport; it’s not the other way round.

Who do you think should have applied/then got the job ?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on March 30, 2018, 09:38:27 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/we-have-to-find-a-balance-between-making-a-profit-and-keeping-true-to-your-ideals-468776.html

He was the already the bag man for the GAA. Actions speak louder than words, and choosing a man inside the system with a background in fiance tells you everything you need to know about this guy and the GAA's goals. Status quo successfully maintained.

Have you any idea of Toms background in Carlow and dublin with unfashionable small clubs  ?

Or are you just presuming he's an accountant only
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 30, 2018, 11:24:20 PM
Orchard maybe it's time we all stopped igoring the buck eejit.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: trileacman on March 31, 2018, 12:06:59 AM
Serious question. If the GAA were losing money hand over fist every year, how would youse feel about it?

What about the inverse? If the GAA was raking in 400 mill a year from an exclusive sky sports deal  but players were buying themselves out of county contracts to play for a team that paid better how would you feel about it?

We can make straw man arguments all f**king day. Go back and find the post where anyone said we want the gaa to lose money every year. No one said that. All we're asking for the gaa to stop deciding everything on financial basis. The super 8, sky, pouring money into to Dublin etc. We can have a financially successful organisation with no values or a less successful organisation that holds true to Irish values.

I know what I want.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2018, 12:34:01 AM
What are "Irish values"?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Syferus on March 31, 2018, 12:45:16 AM
Serious question. If the GAA were losing money hand over fist every year, how would youse feel about it?

It’s not a ‘serious’ question, rather a loaded one as the implication is quite obvious.

The GAA is not making profit simply because it is pumping stupid amounts of grant money into Dublin and likewise isn’t forcing it to share its monsterously high level of sponsorship money so the question doesn’t have much value in this debate.

Dublin are profitable because Gaelic football is a popular sport; it’s not the other way round.

Who do you think should have applied/then got the job ?

Of the three candidates that had any actual chance of getting the job only Liam Sheedy wasn't already part of the machinery that has actively sought to create the even more lop-sided GAA we have gotten over the last ten to fifteen years. Who knows if he'd have the guts to make radical changes, but he's the only one who there was a more than zero chance of it happening under.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on March 31, 2018, 01:08:07 AM
Liam sheedy of BoI the mercenary bankers who refused to acknowledge tracker rate injustices  and he only intererested in county hutling.

And part time rte analyst.......

Yeah real finger on the pulse  alright
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on March 31, 2018, 09:22:54 AM
Liam Sheedy trains his club u21s and was on the sideline against us in a north tipperary u21 football B semi final. He's close enough to the coalface in fairness.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2018, 11:17:34 AM
Mr Ryan has got the job.
How about the sensible posters giving him a chance to do it first.
The eejity ones will continue to blow bull.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: AZOffaly on March 31, 2018, 12:12:14 PM
Mr Ryan has got the job.
How about the sensible posters giving him a chance to do it first.
The eejity ones will continue to blow bull.

Exactly. No point whinging now. Let's see what happens. I'm skeptical because it seems like a continuation of philosophy but sure give the man at least a chance before we go mad.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on April 18, 2018, 09:55:48 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0417/955246-10-questions-for-the-gaas-new-director-general/
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on April 18, 2018, 10:15:47 AM
Mr Ryan has got the job.
How about the sensible posters giving him a chance to do it first.
The eejity ones will continue to blow bull.

Exactly. No point whinging now. Let's see what happens. I'm skeptical because it seems like a continuation of philosophy but sure give the man at least a chance before we go mad.

i think its a good appointment...........Business experience shouldn't be seen as such a negative, he;s active in his own adopted club so has a good feel from that end

hes not a national school teacher and hes not an ex co board / croke park committee blazer............ Mulvihill had that background and it worked out very well but Duffy had also and to my eyes was poor
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: thejuice on April 19, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
Anyone know what this “9 with, 9 without” approach to club games is about that they are doing in Monaghan. Supposedly Duffy has been behind it in some way. How does it work especially for clubs at Intermediate grade? I don’t understand the thinking behind awarding 5 points for games with county players and 2 for games without.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on April 19, 2018, 03:03:56 PM
Juice i read the article quickly and admit to not understanding it also............
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Boycey on April 19, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
Anyone know what this “9 with, 9 without” approach to club games is about that they are doing in Monaghan. Supposedly Duffy has been behind it in some way. How does it work especially for clubs at Intermediate grade? I don’t understand the thinking behind awarding 5 points for games with county players and 2 for games without.

I'm not sure Paraic was exactly 'behind' it but he was certainly on the committee that proposed it and craftily the Monaghan Co Board did get him to present it to the clubs probably enhancing its chances of getting voted through. It is as simple as it sounds all clubs in both senior and intermediate play half their games with their county players and half without, the junior league is untouched. The 5 point games with county players are to be played in two blocks, one which is being played currently (4 games) and one at the end (5 games) with the remaining 9 two pointers played in the middle.

There has been a reluctance from clubs in Monaghan to play without our county players bar 2/3 pre-agreed 'star' games as your place in the senior championship is dependant on staying in the senior league. Add to that Monaghan getting to the latter stages of the championship in recent times its left us playing a swathe of games in April/early May and club players then having possibly 3 games from then til August. There was also the knock on effect of another frenzy of football then in the Autumn with a championship to be played and half the league games still remaining.

I guess the 5 points for the games with county players is to entice clubs to play half their games without them.To be honest nobody knows whether this will work or not til its been tried but having initially being strongly against it having seen this years fixture list I'd be cautiously warming to it a little.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: sligoman2 on April 19, 2018, 03:08:49 PM
Anyone know what this “9 with, 9 without” approach to club games is about that they are doing in Monaghan. Supposedly Duffy has been behind it in some way. How does it work especially for clubs at Intermediate grade? I don’t understand the thinking behind awarding 5 points for games with county players and 2 for games without.

Genius move imo.  Allows club games to continue during the summer with a weighting system for games without all players.  Don’t know how it would work in the championship, but it an interesting approach, I don’t understand all the animosity towards Duffy.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Esmarelda on April 19, 2018, 03:20:26 PM
Anyone know what this “9 with, 9 without” approach to club games is about that they are doing in Monaghan. Supposedly Duffy has been behind it in some way. How does it work especially for clubs at Intermediate grade? I don’t understand the thinking behind awarding 5 points for games with county players and 2 for games without.

Genius move imo.  Allows club games to continue during the summer with a weighting system for games without all players.  Don’t know how it would work in the championship, but it an interesting approach, I don’t understand all the animosity towards Duffy.
This is something I don't understand, particularly when the CPA or journalists supporting them talk about this issue. Do club league games not continue without county players in all counties when the county team is still in the championship?
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: thejuice on April 20, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
I wasn’t being critical, it’s quite an imaginative solution and I’m surprised it’s even got as far as being implemented.

I’d be open to any idea which has merit but I’m just curious how it works and if it’s having the desired effect. What about clubs without county players. I’m sure it would be annoying to beat your local rivals but only get two points for it only for it. But I guess it’s better than not playing games at all.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: munchkin on April 20, 2018, 09:59:37 AM
You have it in the end, better to play league games with points biased to when the county players are there, than nothing at all when everyone is waiting for the county lads to come back.

Cavan tried something similar with having only certain "super" league games counting to promotion and relegation, but it was confusing and then meant that "normal" league games were essentially meaningless. Not sure if its still the structure there, but the Monaghan one is way better. 

The acceptance of the scheme I think was down to the fact that it wasnt a plan dreamed up by the county board and then forced through. There was a series of consultations with the county manager and clubs (and back and forth, and in circles) so everyone had their input until finally the final plan was made, and in the end they had a  buyin to it as it was their plan rather than the county boards plan.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 10:43:41 AM
Ros is having a County Cup for May/June to give club only players games in the height of summer.
2 or 3 clubs have opted out already!!
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: westbound on April 20, 2018, 10:59:42 AM
Ros is having a County Cup for May/June to give club only players games in the height of summer.
2 or 3 clubs have opted out already!!

The 2 or 3 clubs opting out devalues it straight it away.

The monaghan solution is (in theory) a way better solution. If it works, it could be a blue print to how a lot of counties run their leagues.
IMO, in broad terms there are only two possible solutions to the lack of definitive club fixtures:

Either 1) play club matches (and have county players available) in a 6 month period from Jan-Jun (or Jul-Dec) or any consecutive 6 month period. Play county matches in the other 6 months of the year (I.e. the county season is 5-6 months long and the club season is 5-6 months long). This way, DEFINITIVE fixtures can be given for both club and county
OR 2) play club matches at same time as county games but without county players (e.g. pro14 in rugby)

The monaghan solution gives a good variation on option 2 where 'important' club games (i.e. not pre-season cup competitions) are played without county players during the county season, but the 'more important' club games (i.e 5-point league games & Championship) are played with the county players.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Owenmoresider on April 20, 2018, 11:01:42 AM
Ros is having a County Cup for May/June to give club only players games in the height of summer.
2 or 3 clubs have opted out already!!
We did our warm-up competitions in the summer (!) in recent years and it was similarly farcical. Indeed we only have one round of that played so far so the rest I assume are going to be across the April-June period.

Interesting to see that Monaghan clubs get 18 league games and at least 2 championship, making 20, don't know if they have a third competition or not, but many Sligo clubs only get a minimum 11/12 games across league/championship. My own being in D3 only gets a minimum 11 across all 3 competitions. It's a lot of training for so little playing.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 11:13:26 AM
If I was Ros Co Board I'd have 8 team divisions in the Leagues -play 1 series of  7 without Co players, the other with the Co players.
At least the club only players would get at least 14 League plus 5 Championship  games between 1st March and 1st weekend September -27 weekends.
County lads would have minimum 12 Club (or up to max17) games plus anything up to 20 or as few as 12 County games.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: westbound on April 20, 2018, 12:05:13 PM
If I was Ros Co Board I'd have 8 team divisions in the Leagues -play 1 series of  7 without Co players, the other with the Co players.
At least the club only players would get at least 14 League plus 5 Championship  games between 1st March and 1st weekend September -27 weekends.
County lads would have minimum 12 Club (or up to max17) games plus anything up to 20 or as few as 12 County games.
That's a good suggestion too.

From a club players point of view, anything that keeps you playing meaningful matches while the county lads are away without being OVERLY disadvantaged is what's important.
I guess the disadvantage with your proposal is that clubs with a lot of county players are disproportionately disadvantaged for the 7 matches they are missing. The monaghan proposal (by putting a higher weighting on the other games) reduces this disadvantage somewhat.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
True but I think the League determines a club's  grade there so they had to devise that system.
In Ros the League is a stand alone competition but the idea of extra points for the games with the County lads could still be used.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 20, 2018, 12:39:59 PM
Mayo have Divisional games in Spring. The county leagues run throughout the summer with 5 games starred (no county players) out of 11. Bottom 3 divisions not harmed by this. There's the third competition starting the 12th May also. I must say it is good for giving players games. Only Castlebar have opted out of thus 3rd competition this year.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Jinxy on April 20, 2018, 12:51:08 PM
Do most counties have a tertiary competition nowadays, e.g. the Feis Cup in Meath?
Between league, championship and that, there should be plenty of football that can be played over the summer months without county players needing to be involved.
Just give lads games ffs.
Title: Re: Paraic Duffy to Stand Down
Post by: Orchard park on April 20, 2018, 01:16:12 PM
Mayo have Divisional games in Spring. The county leagues run throughout the summer with 5 games starred (no county players) out of 11. Bottom 3 divisions not harmed by this. There's the third competition starting the 12th May also. I must say it is good for giving players games. Only Castlebar have opted out of thus 3rd competition this year.

and they have an extra player available now that Vaughan is a committed mitchells man