https://aib.ie/gaa/blog/2018/04/padraic_joyce_picks_his_super_8_line_up (https://aib.ie/gaa/blog/2018/04/padraic_joyce_picks_his_super_8_line_up)
This championship seasons see the inaugural Super 8s, and it's been a tough task to predict who will get there.
The draw means that when one of Mayo or Galway loses their Connacht clash, they could quickly end up meeting another big gun, such as the losers of Donegal v Cavan or Tyrone v Monaghan in a qualifier — depending on the draw, of course.
While I've picked eight teams below, they are not necessarily named in order of the top teams in Ireland. There has to be an acceptance that some quality teams will fall by the wayside after losing in the provinces and getting a tough qualifier draw.
The Super 8s will be interesting, based on who comes through the provinces as champions. By staying in the front door, you are guaranteed to avoid pitfalls, know when you are playing, and what way to alter your training program for the year.
We won't know the full layout until we nearly get there but there will be two group of 4, as follows:
Group 1 Group 2
A. Leinster Champions A. Munster Champions
B. Ulster Champions B. Connacht Champions
C. Munster Runner up/Qualifer Team C. Leinster Runner up / Qualifer Team
D. Connacht Runner up/Qualifer Team D. Ulster Runner up / Qualifer Team
Semi Finals:
Group 1 Winner Vs Group 2 Runner Up
Group 1 Runner Up Vs Group 2 Winner
Dublin
The thing that stands out about Dublin is that nothing really stands out. They are the same machine no matter who plays for them. Who else could cope without the qualities of Diarmuid Connolly, Bernard Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan and Jack McCaffrey for the league campaign and roll on regardless? They have a conveyor belt of talented footballers coming through, and we've seen how Niall Scully and now Eoin Murchan have slipped in seamlessly. I will say it again, great credit is due to Jim Gavin for creating this scenario in Dublin GAA.
They will coast to another Leinster title, and that makes them one of just two certainties at this present time to make it through to the Super 8s. Kildare have lost all of their league games while every other challenger in Leinster finished outside the top 12 during the spring.
Kerry
I see Kerry as the only other nailed-on side for the Super 8s. Clare are a very good team who have been developing for the past three years and have made great progress, but you'd imagine the Kingdom will be too much for them in the Munster semi-final. Once there, Eamonn Fitzmaurice's side will be into a provincial final that he most likely will win.
They're not much more of a force this year than in 2017 but they have added some young players — the likes of David Clifford and Sean O'Shea — and they will grow as they get experience at Croke Park. But the team is still lacking a full- and centre-back, which could be their downfall as the season goes on.
They were criticised last year for playing with a sweeper against Mayo and while going man-to-man is very important, everyone has some element of cover in their team. Kerry are often lauded for being this expansive county, but they're cute enough too in terms of funnelling lads back. They just need the balance, and get these young lads used to opening up space at Croker.
Mayo
It's incredible to see the buzz around the place for the Galway v Mayo clash so far from the Connacht SFC meeting on May 13. Club are already organising busloads for a game that is going to be a sell-out. Whoever wins this should end up lifting the provincial crown, even if reigning champions Roscommon should ease to the final in the handier side of the draw.
Mayo have injuries and Lee Keegan is irreplaceable, and I wish him well with his recovery from injury, but Eoin O'Donoghue looks a good option now. Chris Barrett and Keith Higgins will be back in contention for this game. The latter spent the spring hurling for the county, and though you wouldn't see that in Dublin or Galway, I think he needed it for freshness and it's no bad thing.
Still, Stephen Rochford hasn't found that one forward needed to get Mayo over the line in the big games, as this is what cost them down the final stretch against Dublin last year and the year before. Maybe Conor Loftus will be that man but he needs more games on a consistent basis. It's interesting that they scraped past Donegal in Ballybofey to save their Division 1 bacon, but so easily things could be wildly different if they were going into Connacht off the back of a relegation.
The miles might be on the clock but they've shown they know the road to Croke Park.
Galway
I can't call who is going to win between Mayo and Galway, but it's hard to back against either getting to the latter stages of the championship. There's been huge progression this year under Kevin Walsh, that's evidenced in how they won more points than anyone else in spring and gave Dublin a great battle.
Kevin has made them hard to play against, but what pleases me most is that they stand up to the physical stuff and don't take a step back. You need that edge to become a top team, whereas in the past we might have drifted out of games. The players are working it out on the pitch.
The team is still developing so it's no surprise to see that they haven't yet got the experience of how to win on big days at Croke Park, but they're moving in the right direction. With Damien Comer upfront, they're looking a serious outfit with a great focal point, and a couple of Corofin lads and Micheal Daly are to come back in.
I think making the Super 8s and possibly an All-Ireland semi-final this year would be huge for this group.
Tyrone
Mickey Harte's men might not have started the year as they wished but they're coming into the Ulster championship with a pep in their step. Sean Cavanagh might be gone but what they need now in attack is more pace, and Lee Brennan could well be the solution to that issue.
This team needs more scorers and they need to develop a plan B, something they did not have once Dublin opened them up in last year's All-Ireland semi-final.
They go through Ulster playing these claustrophobic games where every other side is mimicking them, and struggle to adapt to a new style when they meet the big guns in Croker. I think they need to always leave three or four attackers in the opposition's half if they want to kick on to the next level.
Because they have a familiar team, it's about evolving. Peter Harte is a class player but he has been there for a number of years now, and this team needs to start making hay. Time for the breakthrough.
Monaghan
They're just a strong, consistent Ulster team, and it's hard to back against them making the Super 8s. As with most teams here, the draw could make a liar of me yet, but they still have Conor McManus. He is one of the best forwards in the country, Jack McCarron is quality, and Conor McCarthy is looking a real find after his impact with UCD.
They don't have a huge pick but I'd often be up in the county so I know how much Malachy O'Rourke is getting out of them. They have a huge passion for the game up there and they certainly won't be lacking effort but again like Galway and Mayo they have a huge game against Tyrone up first in the Ulster Championship.
Roscommon
I have them in line for the Super 8s largely because of the draw in Connacht this year. All they have to do is beat the winner of New York v Leitrim and they're into a provincial final. Even if they lose that, they're still just a game away from the two groups of four.
I think Kevin McStay is bringing them along all the time and they are a better team than in 2017, when they won the Nestor Cup, and some of the lads who had underage success have now matured.
But they look a bit suspect at the back, as we saw against Cavan recently, so they need to tighten up there.
Tipperary
It's as simple as this: I think Tipp will beat Cork in Munster. Yes, Kerry are likely to win the provincial final but that leaves the Premier just one win away from the Super 8s, and few teams have the firepower they have in Michael Quinlivan and Conor Sweeney. Again, they could draw a big gun like a Donegal/Cavan or a Mayo/Galway, for example, and that changes everything.
He has us in it largely because of the draw and not the fact we topped D2, have some of the best forwards in the country and are the reigning Connacht champions, having hammered his own county at home in the final, and with quite good defence at that. Sour wee ladeen is Joyce.
Of the eight he named Galway remain the mystery. Lose to Mayo and the league will look like a mirage and the path to the Super 8, let alone the AISF, will look fraught with danger and the probable removal of Kevin Walsh will loom large. The rest of the teams we know basically what they are if not how far they will advance.
This would be a very fun championship for neutrals this season if not for Dublin making a mockery of the amaterur status of the sport. They are robbing us of some of the best and most interesting matchups in decades single-handedly.
what a load of shite with all due respect Syferus.
did you have the same opinion of Kilkenny when they dominated hurling or do you follow hurling at all....
Show me the Dublin player who isnt an amateur.........
ie name any player who isnt either a student or employed gainfully and then label them as not amateurs.. HYPERBOLE or where i come from total bullsh*t
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:22:21 PM
what a load of shite with all due respect Syferus.
did you have the same opinion of Kilkenny when they dominated hurling or do you follow hurling at all....
Kilkenny's population is less than many of their competitors. They don't have an unfair advantage.
I really hope Armagh don't make the Super 8's this year. I can't see it being anything other than a bad thing for lower half div 2 teams and below. If it had been in place last year, Armagh would have had to face Dublin a week after being hammered by Tyrone then a possible dead rubber against Monaghan. I don't see any benefit to that at all.
As for the list itself I think there are better teams than Tipperary not on the list but the way the structure works I don't necessarily think they are any more likely to make the last 8
What is the official title of the last 8 round robin btw? I find the constant references to "Super 8's" quite annoying, like as if Sky had taken it straight from their rugby league and the entire GAA fraternity started talking their language right away, just as so many lazily referred to a "Champions League" format for a new structure because some journalist did it years back and the herd followed.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 10, 2018, 04:29:52 PM
I really hope Armagh don't make the Super 8's this year. I can't see it being anything other than a bad thing for lower half div 2 teams and below. If it had been in place last year, Armagh would have had to face Dublin a week after being hammered by Tyrone then a possible dead rubber against Monaghan. I don't see any benefit to that at all.
As for the list itself I think there are better teams than Tipperary not on the list but the way the structure works I don't necessarily think they are any more likely to make the last 8
Missing out on the Super 8 won't help Armagh either. The sides that regularly reach the last 8 and get to play the best teams and players will only improve and move further away from the rest.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 10, 2018, 04:40:16 PM
What is the official title of the last 8 round robin btw? I find the constant references to "Super 8's" quite annoying, like as if Sky had taken it straight from their rugby league and the entire GAA fraternity started talking their language right away, just as so many lazily referred to a "Champions League" format for a new structure because some journalist did it years back and the herd followed.
All-Ireland SFC quarter finals Phase 1, 2 and 3.
so now a weaker team instead of being trounced in an all ireland quarter final like we were in the replay last year will have it happen 3 times
"they could quickly end up meeting another big gun, such as the losers of Donegal v Cavan or Tyrone v Monaghan in a qualifier "
I wouldn't lose much sleep over playing the losers of Donegal v Cavan tbh
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2018, 04:29:03 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:22:21 PM
what a load of shite with all due respect Syferus.
did you have the same opinion of Kilkenny when they dominated hurling or do you follow hurling at all....
Kilkenny's population is less than many of their competitors. They don't have an unfair advantage.
I cannot believe that needed to be pointed out to someone who isn't from Dublin. And don't forget about the fianicial advantages they enjoy.
Quote from: Syferus on April 10, 2018, 04:12:36 PM
He has us in it largely because of the draw and not the fact we topped D2, have some of the best forwards in the country and are the reigning Connacht champions, having hammered his own county at home in the final, and with quite good defence at that. Sour wee ladeen is Joyce.
Of the eight he named Galway remain the mystery. Lose to Mayo and the league will look like a mirage and the path to the Super 8, let alone the AISF, will look fraught with danger and the probable removal of Kevin Walsh will loom large. The rest of the teams we know basically what they are if not how far they will advance.
This would be a very fun championship for neutrals this season if not for Dublin making a mockery of the amaterur status of the sport. They are robbing us of some of the best and most interesting matchups in decades single-handedly.
Must be all those All Irelands your lot cost him.
Anyone seen any confirmation anywhere that all games on the opening weekend will be in Croke Park
I'm sure I read somewhere that the opening weekend would be where the provincial winners would meet in Croke Park as would the provincial losers should they qualify, logic is there's no dead rubbers in the final games.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 10, 2018, 04:29:52 PM
I really hope Armagh don't make the Super 8's this year. I can't see it being anything other than a bad thing for lower half div 2 teams and below. If it had been in place last year, Armagh would have had to face Dublin a week after being hammered by Tyrone then a possible dead rubber against Monaghan. I don't see any benefit to that at all.
As for the list itself I think there are better teams than Tipperary not on the list but the way the structure works I don't necessarily think they are any more likely to make the last 8
They wouldn't David. Their first game would have been against the other team that had come through the back door. Tyrone would have played Dublin on the same weekend. It might not change your overall view but I think that's the way it would have been. The two provincial champions play each other in the first game.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 10, 2018, 05:13:48 PM
Anyone seen any confirmation anywhere that all games on the opening weekend will be in Croke Park
I'm sure I read somewhere that the opening weekend would be where the provincial winners would meet in Croke Park as would the provincial losers should they qualify, logic is there's no dead rubbers in the final games.
Haven't seen this confirmed but yes, it was what was initially proposed.
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:47:59 PM
so now a weaker team instead of being trounced in an all ireland quarter final like we were in the replay last year will have it happen 3 times
Roscommon drew the first game which would be a point in this new format.
If it was in play last year Roscommons group would have been
Kerry
Armagh
Monaghan
Easier or harder to reach the semi final than trying to beat Mayo in replay?
Contenders are all this year's Div 1 teams plus Ros Cavan Cork Armagh Tipp.
No hope for Antrim Derry Louth Westmeath Offaly Laois Wicklow Carlow Wexford London Waterford Limerick Sligo Laythrum. .
One of the remainder with the right draws and home venues and luck might just upset a few apple carts and squeeze in.
Super 8 doesn't address the structural problems that are making a hames of football.
Concentration has had a very bad effect on soccer as well. The top teams in England, Spain, Germany and France are far away from the competition in the leagues that are now winding up.
And your solution Seafóidín? ?
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 05:31:12 PM
Contenders are all this year's Div 1 teams plus Ros Cavan Cork Armagh Tipp.
No hope for Antrim Derry Louth Westmeath Offaly Laois Wicklow Carlow Wexford London Waterford Limerick Sligo Laythrum. .
One of the remainder with the right draws and home venues and luck might just upset a few apple carts and squeeze in.
And yet so many of those counties voted for this nonsense. Self interest put before the greater good.
It's not nonsense and no system can, or should, help teams artificially make the later stages of a competition. The super 8's make no difference to Antrim, Offaly, Waterford etc., they won't lose anymore ground to the Dublin's of this world by keeping any other system we've had.
The super 8's isn't the complete solution but it is an improvement on what we have.
Due to the lack of consultation, we will be boycotting the Super 8s.
Good.
Sure ye wouldn't be able to have a home game anyway.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
And your solution Seafóidín? ?
Top of them all would be a new economic system ;)
But pending that :
Funding is secretive and unbalanced.
Counties have to fend for themselves. This shouldn't be the case going forward. Meath for example need help.
The qfs favour stronger counties. Is there not a better way to run the championship ?
Players should read Proven Strategies for Success in Sports, Life and Mental Health by Brent Pope and Jason Brennan, published by Hachett, price £13.99, as a start at tackling some of the psychological problems
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 10, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 05:31:12 PM
Contenders are all this year's Div 1 teams plus Ros Cavan Cork Armagh Tipp.
No hope for Antrim Derry Louth Westmeath Offaly Laois Wicklow Carlow Wexford London Waterford Limerick Sligo Laythrum. .
One of the remainder with the right draws and home venues and luck might just upset a few apple carts and squeeze in.
And yet so many of those counties voted for this nonsense. Self interest put before the greater good.
These congress votes are a joke, tipp manager, football board and players were all against the super 8's and the tipp delegates vote in favour of it, what does that tell you
Most "hurling" counties were against the restructuring of the provincial championships but the likes of Donegal, fermanagh, mayo, Cavan all have an equal vote as the people this really affects.
After years if arrogantly asserting that everything was wonderful in their Chamoionship the hurley crowd went into a panic when the new football Quarter Finals Series was adopted.
Not enough hurling games the roared.
Then they got more.
Now they want to blame "the likes of" Fermanagh and Donegal.
Sickening hurley arrogance!!!
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 10, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 05:31:12 PM
Contenders are all this year's Div 1 teams plus Ros Cavan Cork Armagh Tipp.
No hope for Antrim Derry Louth Westmeath Offaly Laois Wicklow Carlow Wexford London Waterford Limerick Sligo Laythrum. .
One of the remainder with the right draws and home venues and luck might just upset a few apple carts and squeeze in.
And yet so many of those counties voted for this nonsense. Self interest put before the greater good.
Was the county delegates that voted it in and those counties delegates were influenced by HQ with countrywide roadshow to vote it in. A public vote would have been very different.
As I have said before the championship is a cup competition and the story of the underdogs upsetting the odds is that makes any cup competition great, the introduction of a round robin system for the last 8 is now more or less killing off any chance the underdog has of reaching the last 4 now.
Sure it's only in for three years...
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 07:00:20 PM
After years if arrogantly asserting that everything was wonderful in their Chamoionship the hurley crowd went into a panic when the new football Quarter Finals Series was adopted.
Not enough hurling games the roared.
Then they got more.
Now they want to blame "the likes of" Fermanagh and Donegal.
Sickening hurley arrogance!!!
I'm a football person not a "Hurley" person as you state. (well id go to both but its football first). Where were people saying there wasnt enough hurling games? Again though the people this affects are in a situation they didn't want.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 10, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 10, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 05:31:12 PM
Contenders are all this year's Div 1 teams plus Ros Cavan Cork Armagh Tipp.
No hope for Antrim Derry Louth Westmeath Offaly Laois Wicklow Carlow Wexford London Waterford Limerick Sligo Laythrum. .
One of the remainder with the right draws and home venues and luck might just upset a few apple carts and squeeze in.
And yet so many of those counties voted for this nonsense. Self interest put before the greater good.
Was the county delegates that voted it in and those counties delegates were influenced by HQ with countrywide roadshow to vote it in. A public vote would have been very different.
As I have said before the championship is a cup competition and the story of the underdogs upsetting the odds is that makes any cup competition great, the introduction of a round robin system for the last 8 is now more or less killing off any chance the underdog has of reaching the last 4 now.
Exactly. Look the league is brilliant, easily our best formatted competition. In a perfect world for me a 32 county championship with 8 groups of 4, league divisions decide the seedings in the groups, top two go through, bottom 2 into a secondary competition. Last 16 straight knockout. The more knockout games the better. It won't happen but that's what I'd like.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 05:31:12 PM
Contenders are all this year's Div 1 teams plus Ros Cavan Cork Armagh Tipp.
No hope for Antrim Derry Louth Westmeath Offaly Laois Wicklow Carlow Wexford London Waterford Limerick Sligo Laythrum. .
One of the remainder with the right draws and home venues and luck might just upset a few apple carts and squeeze in.
On oddschecker there are 6 counties whose odds are below 50/1
Armagh are 150/1 which is hardly contender territory
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:22:21 PM
what a load of shite with all due respect Syferus.
did you have the same opinion of Kilkenny when they dominated hurling or do you follow hurling at all....
Show me the Dublin player who isnt an amateur.........
ie name any player who isnt either a student or employed gainfully and then label them as not amateurs.. HYPERBOLE or where i come from total bullsh*t
Well, I can agree with your first sentence without reading it!
But, if you want to compare Kilkenny's recent extended run of success with that of Dublin at present, you may have picked a bad example. The Cats have only 12 senior sides and when the members of their brilliant side began to drop out, there weren't enough quality coming along to replace them. Much the same as happened to the Kerry team of the late 70s and early 80s. Dublin will never have that problem.
Another things that separates the Cats from the Dubs is money. After at least one of their AI wins, the Kilkenny players had to stand outside church gates with plastic buckets to get the money to pay for their holiday abroad. Talk about a busman's holiday! Can't see Berno or Dermo hving to do that anytime soon, can you?
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2018, 07:08:59 PM
Sure it's only in for three years...
I doubt that very much. The whole purpose of this was to create more interesting games, which of course will result in more revenue. I for one am in favour of this as the amount of good competitive games recently has been few.
My guess is that this will be successful and nobody (almost) will have any interest in going back to the current format. I'm also a fan of a second tier as long as winners and runners up rejoin the championship at some stage..
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
There's little excitement left in the championship without your usual approach of ignoring the Dublin problem and fixating on format changes to make it even worse.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field
Because it is a cup competition and shocks are very much part of any cup competition. The league is the best format the GAA have and a league format is the very best format in world sport to find the champion team.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
Róisín , they are a decent guide to form.
I don't remember the last time a county at 150/1 won Sam. Maybe 1943? ;)
I was only talking about the last 8 Seaf.
Leagues might be Championships in other sports but not ours Captain as teams have different priorities, different fitness levels, trying out new players, missing players due to Club commitments, resting veterans etc etc.
The Summer competition (s) us/are the CHAMPIONSHIP.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
The Champions league and World cup are cup competitions and far from secondary competitions and both competitions don't have the daftness of a robin round group stage for its last 8.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 09:03:58 PM
I was only talking about the last 8 Seaf.
Leagues might be Championships in other sports but not ours Captain as teams have different priorities, different fitness levels, trying out new players, missing players due to Club commitments, resting veterans etc etc.
The Summer competition (s) us/are the CHAMPIONSHIP.
Leagues are treated more serious in the majority of other sports. The priority for the GAA heads at the top is to chop and change its cup competition when they really should make its best format the league more important.
Quote from: Syferus on April 10, 2018, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2018, 04:29:03 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:22:21 PM
what a load of shite with all due respect Syferus.
did you have the same opinion of Kilkenny when they dominated hurling or do you follow hurling at all....
Kilkenny's population is less than many of their competitors. They don't have an unfair advantage.
I cannot believe that needed to be pointed out to someone who isn't from Dublin. And don't forget about the fianicial advantages they enjoy.
Show me the non amateur player on the Dublin panel as alleged
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 10, 2018, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
The Champions league and World cup are cup competitions and far from secondary competitions and both competitions don't have the daftness of a robin round group stage for its last 8.
As far adls I'm aware those 2 soccery competitions have group stages first and then the best teams play out the knock out stages then.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 09:55:01 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 10, 2018, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
The Champions league and World cup are cup competitions and far from secondary competitions and both competitions don't have the daftness of a robin round group stage for its last 8.
As far adls I'm aware those 2 soccery competitions have group stages first and then the best teams play out the knock out stages then.
they dont have kind of knockout but with a second chance, then another separate knockout thing then a group thing near the end of the competition and finally for the last 4 proper knockout.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 09:55:01 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 10, 2018, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Why do some folks keep calling the CHAMPIONSHIP a "Cup competition"???
It's for finding the best or Champion team not for providing shocks like soccer where cup thingys are only secondary competitions for a bit of diversion.
And Seafóidín betting odds don't decide the last 8 it's results on the field😉
The Champions league and World cup are cup competitions and far from secondary competitions and both competitions don't have the daftness of a robin round group stage for its last 8.
As far adls I'm aware those 2 soccery competitions have group stages first and then the best teams play out the knock out stages then.
Tonight in the Champions league a European cup competition. Liverpool 3rd in the English league knocked out the champions of England to be Manchester City and Roma 4th in the Italian league table knocked out the league leaders of Spain and one of the Champions league favorites Barcelona
The best don't always get through to the latter stages and upsets happen without them any cup competition would be very dull.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 10, 2018, 04:06:24 PM
Chris Barrett and Keith Higgins will be back in contention for this game. The latter spent the spring hurling for the county, and though you wouldn't see that in Dublin or Galway, I think he needed it for freshness and it's no bad thing.
Is PJ really comparing Galway to Dublin? ;D I know they topped D1 but :o
Super 8s mmmm
Has the potential to work and I for one am looking forward to the games between some of the best teams (and dublin) in Ireland.
I see its draw backs however....The Cavan's Laois,Kildares,Fermanagh's Armaghs's Derry's and Westmeath's (who all on their day could upset the apple cart are now probably going to drift further behind the big 4(Tyrone Mayo Kerry Galway)because of the the provincial system and the draws...I don't include Dublin as they are out on their own in terms of everything and will probably win the all Ireland for next 10 years....(money money money)
The Roscommons and Tipps and Corks of this world will always have a chance year after year due to their lack of games to reach a provincial final.which in turn gives them a great chance to reach the super 8s
Time will tell!
Quote from: Unlaoised on April 11, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
Super 8s mmmm
Has the potential to work and I for one am looking forward to the games between some of the best teams (and dublin) in Ireland.
I see its draw backs however....The Cavan's Laois,Kildares,Fermanagh's Armaghs's Derry's and Westmeath's (who all on their day could upset the apple cart are now probably going to drift further behind the big 4(Tyrone Mayo Kerry Galway)because of the the provincial system and the draws...I don't include Dublin as they are out on their own in terms of everything and will probably win the all Ireland for next 10 years....(money money money)
The Roscommons and Tipps and Corks of this world will always have a chance year after year due to their lack of games to reach a provincial final.which in turn gives them a great chance to reach the super 8s
Time will tell!
Amazes me how many Leinster folk have this defeatist attitude. Dublin have made and won 5 All Irelands since they made the 2011 final which was their first final since 1995. Their winning margins have been 1, 1, 3, 1 (after a replay) and 1. So effectively they've played in 6 All Ireland finals since 1995 and their points difference is +7.
Winning the All Ireland for the next 10 years simply will not happen.
Winning the vast majority of them will happen, though.
When Kerry are the romantic champions you know there's something seriously wrong in the sport.
What's Dublin's points difference in the 12 Leinster Finals they've played in from 2005?
Id say it's well over 100.
Quote from: Unlaoised on April 11, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
Super 8s mmmm
Has the potential to work and I for one am looking forward to the games between some of the best teams (and dublin) in Ireland.
I see its draw backs however....The Cavan's Laois,Kildares,Fermanagh's Armaghs's Derry's and Westmeath's (who all on their day could upset the apple cart are now probably going to drift further behind the big 4(Tyrone Mayo Kerry Galway)because of the the provincial system and the draws...I don't include Dublin as they are out on their own in terms of everything and will probably win the all Ireland for next 10 years....(money money money)
The Roscommons and Tipps and Corks of this world will always have a chance year after year due to their lack of games to reach a provincial final.which in turn gives them a great chance to reach the super 8s
Time will tell!
Unlaoised, could you explain the bit in bold please?
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 10, 2018, 05:15:30 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:47:59 PM
so now a weaker team instead of being trounced in an all ireland quarter final like we were in the replay last year will have it happen 3 times
Roscommon drew the first game which would be a point in this new format.
If it was in play last year Roscommons group would have been
Kerry
Armagh
Monaghan
Easier or harder to reach the semi final than trying to beat Mayo in replay?
Easier. Ros always choke against Mayo been going on 30 years now
Quote from: Kurtz on April 11, 2018, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 10, 2018, 05:15:30 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on April 10, 2018, 04:47:59 PM
so now a weaker team instead of being trounced in an all ireland quarter final like we were in the replay last year will have it happen 3 times
Roscommon drew the first game which would be a point in this new format.
If it was in play last year Roscommons group would have been
Kerry
Armagh
Monaghan
Easier or harder to reach the semi final than trying to beat Mayo in replay?
Easier. Ros always choke against Mayo been going on 30 years now
Thats like saying Mayo always choke against Jim Gavins Dublin. The simple fact is Mayo have been better than Ros and the best chance any underdog have of winning is the first day.
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
Hang on to that memory , at this stage twenty year old men cant remember that glorious day for ye.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
I did say sorta. Whatever about 20 yr olds not remembering, I certainly remember the drive home - not a word spoken.
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Come to think of it. The amount of Connacht titles Mayo have compared to All Ireland's is an embarrassment
When you consider, that most of those wins meant they were straight in to a semi final
What does "a bit of a wash" mean?
Is it Ulsterscotch ?
6 to 1, half a dozen to another.
Quote from: Kurtz on April 12, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Come to think of it. The amount of Connacht titles Mayo have compared to All Ireland's is an embarrassment
When you consider, that most of those wins meant they were straight in to a semi final
Same could be said of Cavan?
Quote from: Kurtz on April 12, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Come to think of it. The amount of Connacht titles Mayo have compared to All Ireland's is an embarrassment
When you consider, that most of those wins meant they were straight in to a semi final
Totally agree.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: Kurtz on April 12, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Come to think of it. The amount of Connacht titles Mayo have compared to All Ireland's is an embarrassment
When you consider, that most of those wins meant they were straight in to a semi final
Same could be said of Cavan?
Corks record is not great either.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: Kurtz on April 12, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Come to think of it. The amount of Connacht titles Mayo have compared to All Ireland's is an embarrassment
When you consider, that most of those wins meant they were straight in to a semi final
Same could be said of Cavan?
Corks record is not great either.
Corks record is similar to Galways, about one win to every 5 provincial titles.
Mayo's is one win for every 15 provincial final.
Down though, 5 wins from 12 Ulster titles.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 12, 2018, 12:02:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: Kurtz on April 12, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 11, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 11, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Gerry Lohan's goal 2001 -choked a few Rhubarbs
We sorta got our revenge since then.
Roscommon has about half the population of Mayo and also about half the number of Connacht titles as Mayo too so it's a bit of a wash, to say the least.
Come to think of it. The amount of Connacht titles Mayo have compared to All Ireland's is an embarrassment
When you consider, that most of those wins meant they were straight in to a semi final
Same could be said of Cavan?
Corks record is not great either.
Corks record is similar to Galways, about one win to every 5 provincial titles.
Mayo's is one win for every 15 provincial final.
Down though, 5 wins from 12 Ulster titles.
Never mind that, how about Limerick winning 2 All-Irelands from 1 Munster title!
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 11, 2018, 02:59:14 PM
Quote from: Unlaoised on April 11, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
Super 8s mmmm
Has the potential to work and I for one am looking forward to the games between some of the best teams (and dublin) in Ireland.
I see its draw backs however....The Cavan's Laois,Kildares,Fermanagh's Armaghs's Derry's and Westmeath's (who all on their day could upset the apple cart are now probably going to drift further behind the big 4(Tyrone Mayo Kerry Galway)because of the the provincial system and the draws...I don't include Dublin as they are out on their own in terms of everything and will probably win the all Ireland for next 10 years....(money money money)
The Roscommons and Tipps and Corks of this world will always have a chance year after year due to their lack of games to reach a provincial final.which in turn gives them a great chance to reach the super 8s
As in if Tyrone Mayo Kerry Galway plus Roscommon Tipp Cork Obv Money bags Dublin make the Super eight year after year it will only make them stronger and stronger Thus making the gap bigger to the teams who Used to spring the odd surprise or two ....I know maybe there is one or two either way you could change but in general this is the way it will go and counties like my own Laois and say even Kildare Meath Derry etc will drift further back.
You'll have
DUBLIN way out in front
Kerry
Mayo
Tyrone
Galway
Cork
Roscommon
Tipp
Maybe Monaghan/Cavan/Donegal(for the moment)
The rest will drift away year after year!
Time will tell!
Unlaoised, could you explain the bit in bold please?
What I meant was, will it make much difference to those counties you've listed, compared to the previous system?
Each year a team or two might reach the Q/F that mightn't have been expected to. Those teams will now get to play three big games, at least one of which will be at Croke Park. There is the argument that it'll be harder to reach the semi-final, which is probably true, although there have been a few hidings there in recent years, but at least they'll get the exposure on and off the field that goes with new system. Would that not bring these teams on?
What about the teams that will get 2 Championship games and be gone by the 9th June?
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
What about the teams that will get 2 Championship games and be gone by the 9th June?
What about them? The new system will do as much and as little as the new one I'd have thought. Or am I being a bit innocent? :-\
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 12, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
What I meant was, will it make much difference to those counties you've listed, compared to the previous system?
Each year a team or two might reach the Q/F that mightn't have been expected to. Those teams will now get to play three big games, at least one of which will be at Croke Park. There is the argument that it'll be harder to reach the semi-final, which is probably true, although there have been a few hidings there in recent years, but at least they'll get the exposure on and off the field that goes with new system. Would that not bring these teams on?
Hard to argue with that point I just think the 5 or 6 teams that are in it every year will just get stronger on the back of it ,one from playing those games and the county reaping the rewards with the interest it will create and the money it will bring...
Will a Westmeath say ever go further than a Tyrone or a Galway now?Would Tipp have reached a semi in 2016?
Quote from: Unlaoised on April 12, 2018, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 12, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
What I meant was, will it make much difference to those counties you've listed, compared to the previous system?
Each year a team or two might reach the Q/F that mightn't have been expected to. Those teams will now get to play three big games, at least one of which will be at Croke Park. There is the argument that it'll be harder to reach the semi-final, which is probably true, although there have been a few hidings there in recent years, but at least they'll get the exposure on and off the field that goes with new system. Would that not bring these teams on?
Hard to argue with that point I just think the 5 or 6 teams that are in it every year will just get stronger on the back of it ,one from playing those games and the county reaping the rewards with the interest it will create and the money it will bring...
Will a Westmeath say ever go further than a Tyrone or a Galway now?Would Tipp have reached a semi in 2016?
If it's the same five or six, you're probably right. On your second point, probably not. But is Tipp reaching one SF more or less beneficial than playing the three Q/F games they'd get with the new system? I can see both sides.
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 12, 2018, 04:39:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
What about the teams that will get 2 Championship games and be gone by the 9th June?
What about them? The new system will do as much and as little as the new one I'd have thought. Or am I being a bit innocent? :-\
Wouldn't it be better if those teams and the Westmeaths etc all played 3 rounds in a group system ?
Would bring them all on a bit?
Or is it just about the €€€€?
The jury is out on this super 8. We will know this summer what it has to offer. Personally, I see it for what it is a revenue junket to get extra home games for the biggest supported (and most catered for county) Dublin. It does nothing for my own county but add more expense and travel over the month of July on Mayo supporters (if we qualify). Also asking Amateur players to go out and play what will probably be three intense games over three weekends shows lack of regard for the players.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2018, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 12, 2018, 04:39:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
What about the teams that will get 2 Championship games and be gone by the 9th June?
What about them? The new system will do as much and as little as the new one I'd have thought. Or am I being a bit innocent? :-\
Wouldn't it be better if those teams and the Westmeaths etc all played 3 rounds in a group system ?
Would bring them all on a bit?
Or is it just about the €€€€?
The qualifiers need a shake up. Groups for that to find the 4 teams for the last 8 would have made more sense than group stage for the last 8.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2018, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on April 12, 2018, 04:39:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 12, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
What about the teams that will get 2 Championship games and be gone by the 9th June?
What about them? The new system will do as much and as little as the new one I'd have thought. Or am I being a bit innocent? :-\
Wouldn't it be better if those teams and the Westmeaths etc all played 3 rounds in a group system ?
Would bring them all on a bit?
Or is it just about the €€€€?
Might do, but then you're getting into getting rid of the provincials and that whole other discussion.
I was merely discussing the system that we now have in comparison to the one we just had.
Must be all about the money. Loadsa people sayin' it.
Keep the Provincials anyway.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
The jury is out on this super 8. We will know this summer what it has to offer. Personally, I see it for what it is a revenue junket to get extra home games for the biggest supported (and most catered for county) Dublin. It does nothing for my own county but add more expense and travel over the month of July on Mayo supporters (if we qualify). Also asking Amateur players to go out and play what will probably be three intense games over three weekends shows lack of regard for the players.
Isn't it just one extra home game for Dublin?
Isn't it over 4 weekends?
I don't disagree with your overall point though.
Quote from: westbound on April 13, 2018, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
The jury is out on this super 8. We will know this summer what it has to offer. Personally, I see it for what it is a revenue junket to get extra home games for the biggest supported (and most catered for county) Dublin. It does nothing for my own county but add more expense and travel over the month of July on Mayo supporters (if we qualify). Also asking Amateur players to go out and play what will probably be three intense games over three weekends shows lack of regard for the players.
Isn't it just one extra home game for Dublin?
Isn't it over 4 weekends?
I don't disagree with your overall point though.
Correct on both counts. And sure Mayo people were happy last year travelling all over the country - well some on mayoblog were anyway.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 13, 2018, 04:57:34 PM
Quote from: westbound on April 13, 2018, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 12, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
The jury is out on this super 8. We will know this summer what it has to offer. Personally, I see it for what it is a revenue junket to get extra home games for the biggest supported (and most catered for county) Dublin. It does nothing for my own county but add more expense and travel over the month of July on Mayo supporters (if we qualify). Also asking Amateur players to go out and play what will probably be three intense games over three weekends shows lack of regard for the players.
Isn't it just one extra home game for Dublin?
Isn't it over 4 weekends?
I don't disagree with your overall point though.
Correct on both counts. And sure Mayo people were happy last year travelling all over the country - well some on mayoblog were anyway.
But why is it that travelling is enforced on one set of supporters? Why are Dublin so special? Why? Why can you not see this? Why? Is it a GAA thing that is just accepted? Is it?
I know plenty of Mayo people who were well pissed with all the travelling, especially the Roscommon replay!
He would be more pissed if ye didn't have a replay to take psrt in