International rules

[Zulu]

What real costs are there tho? Use of GAA Grounds (probably free), use of DCU facilities, facilitated by a few already contracted coaches / officials, the cost of a few Business class plane Tickets - probably freebies from Emirates who are involved as Sponsors.

There would be a lot of costs involved in organising these things. Not to mention staff employed in organising these events and other such things.

Players then get salaries and the majority of them don't make it.

The no of players making it in a niche sport such as Aussie rules is pretty disappointing. I just don't really see much of a result out of the Aussies putting in so much endeavour, maybe the results will change now - Glass and McKenna seem to have made the breakthrough this year but Tuohy and Hanley is a very disappointing return from the no of players who have gone over in the past 10 years.

Willl the younger Hanley head back to Mayo this year? Will he be much of an addition?

I'd imagine professional sport organisations are well capable of assessing the value of these things so the fact they continue is clearly evidence that they are worthwhile. Besides there is a pretty good level of success for Irish kids and it will probably grow as our players go over with a better level of fitness and awareness of nutrition etc.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I really doubt there is any significant financial cost. Ultimately they persist so there is obviously value for money there.

It's not as if the AFL is the English Premier League. There's not a limitless pool of money and the success rate of GAA player in AFL is pretty poor to be honest.

[Zulu]

I really doubt there is any significant financial cost. Ultimately they persist so there is obviously value for money there.

It's not as if the AFL is the English Premier League. There's not a limitless pool of money and the success rate of GAA player in AFL is pretty poor to be honest.

Why are you arguing something that is clearly wrong? AFL teams have money and they, unlike you, will have all the facts and figures as well so if they are continuing to invest in Irish players they obviously feel they are getting a worthwhile return. The success rate of Irish players is surely quite high?

[6th sam]

I really doubt there is any significant financial cost. Ultimately they persist so there is obviously value for money there.

It's not as if the AFL is the English Premier League. There's not a limitless pool of money and the success rate of GAA player in AFL is pretty poor to be honest.

Good luck to any player who chooses to go down the professional path, and there are certainly less risky and potentially more sustainable and more lucrative options than the comparatively higher risk, lesser return of AFL. In the time that a tiny number have had sustainable benefit from AFL, several more GAA  players have succeeeded at Rugby, and many at soccer (which is less attritional and can be extremely lucrative , even at relatively modest levels in the UK).
I think it's interesting that the most succesful county currently , which has many players commited to an elite level, appears to have rejected the Rules series...and I can see where they are coming from. Their players have carved out extremely successful playing careers, and also employment, sponsorship or business opportunities at home. They also appear to have an admirable sense of loyalty to the clubs who put them on this succesful path. Why would they jeopardise all these for a highly risky "made-up" sport, away from their familes and their friends and clubs after another prolonged season. In addition, their continued success means they'll already be getting a team holiday anyway, so i'd imagine they would have difficulty justifying 2 weeks Down Under.
Clubs are already under pressure due to financial, governance and demographic stressors, and anyone's entitled to go Down under  if they want , but the GAA should work on  promoting and creating opportunities  at home , as opposed to giving AFL and Australia a leg-up. We don't do it with soccer and rugby , or vice versa, so why this bizarre relationship with AFL? There are clear yet controversial GAA rules re relationships with other sports, yet not AFL, which doesn't make sense to me. The Rules game has been plagued by controversey and in many cases disrespect from Australia, over several years. There are so many negatives , and with the new fixture calendar on the way for 2018, it's time to pull the plug on it, in my opinion.

[macdanger2]

What real costs are there tho? Use of GAA Grounds (probably free), use of DCU facilities, facilitated by a few already contracted coaches / officials, the cost of a few Business class plane Tickets - probably freebies from Emirates who are involved as Sponsors.

There would be a lot of costs involved in organising these things. Not to mention staff employed in organising these events and other such things.

Players then get salaries and the majority of them don't make it.

The no of players making it in a niche sport such as Aussie rules is pretty disappointing. I just don't really see much of a result out of the Aussies putting in so much endeavour, maybe the results will change now - Glass and McKenna seem to have made the breakthrough this year but Tuohy and Hanley is a very disappointing return from the no of players who have gone over in the past 10 years.

Willl the younger Hanley head back to Mayo this year? Will he be much of an addition?

He's being re-signed by Brisbane for at least one more year

[Il Bomber Destro]

I really doubt there is any significant financial cost. Ultimately they persist so there is obviously value for money there.

It's not as if the AFL is the English Premier League. There's not a limitless pool of money and the success rate of GAA player in AFL is pretty poor to be honest.

Why are you arguing something that is clearly wrong? AFL teams have money and they, unlike you, will have all the facts and figures as well so if they are continuing to invest in Irish players they obviously feel they are getting a worthwhile return. The success rate of Irish players is surely quite high?

They don't have THAT much money?

It's an niche sport in a country that does not have a gigantic population and has plenty of competition within sport. I just don't think they're pillaging of GAA for talent has had much success from their end. If I was a footballer from Dublin or Kerry I think pursuing a GAA career with either of those counties will prove more financially secure. You'll be sorted with a handy job for life, will cream it in on promotional activities and probably get more enjoyment and success out of the game. You can maybe understand lads from weaker counties going over when they knew there is a limit from what they can gain from their profile regardless of how good they are but that's a different argument.

The AFL are regularly taking about 4/5 lads over a year and very few of them are making any sort of tangible impact of game. It's not the English Premier League, it's not a sport that is absolutely flooded with money and has global appeal. I think it's a pretty fruitless endeavor from the Australian point of view.

[Ohtoohtobe]

To me the series underlines that claims that our top footballers train to the level of professional athletes is bullsh*t. We looked really good at the start of both games, but were swamped by the end by a team playing with an alien ball.
I'm not having a go at our players, they can't be expected to hold down a job and reach the top level of conditioning. But they also can't cod themselves that they're superfit - or jump down Jerry Kiernan's throat when he states the obvious.

[Syferus]

To me the series underlines that claims that our top footballers train to the level of professional athletes is bullsh*t. We looked really good at the start of both games, but were swamped by the end by a team playing with an alien ball.
I'm not having a go at our players, they can't be expected to hold down a job and reach the top level of conditioning. But they also can't cod themselves that they're superfit - or jump down Jerry Kiernan's throat when he states the obvious.

We won the series last time, against a better team of Australians.

Australian summers, a lack of players from our best team and a vomiting bug had more to do with our lads fading as any conditioning issues. Please stop trying to mould events to suit a narrative you clearly wanted something to fit into beforehand.

[6th sam]

To me the series underlines that claims that our top footballers train to the level of professional athletes is bullsh*t. We looked really good at the start of both games, but were swamped by the end by a team playing with an alien ball.
I'm not having a go at our players, they can't be expected to hold down a job and reach the top level of conditioning. But they also can't cod themselves that they're superfit - or jump down Jerry Kiernan's throat when he states the obvious.

We won the series last time, against a better team of Australians.

Australian summers, a lack of players from our best team and a vomiting bug had more to do with our lads fading as any conditioning issues. Please stop trying to mould events to suit a narrative you clearly wanted something to fit into beforehand.

fair points re playing success in the series itself.
My points are  nothing to do with our ability to beat the Australians in a made-up sport, it's about contributing to  promoting another sport which has robbed us of some of our best talent. More importantly exposing amateur GAA players to increased risk of injury in an unfamiliar, highly attritional contact sport against heavier ,presumably better conditioned full time top professionals. Even junior club GAA pre-seasons are at least 6-8 weeks long , progressively exposing Players to equip them for the rigours and risks of a game they are familiar with , against fellow amateurs with a similar level of conditioning. Yet with the rules concept , with minimal prep, we are exposing them to the unfamiliar rigours and risks of this sport against full timers, who are usually much heavier and more cynical.  it's indefensible and we need to wise up!

[Rawhide]

Was Tyrone's Conor Mc Kenna playing?

[From the Bunker]

To me the series underlines that claims that our top footballers train to the level of professional athletes is bullsh*t. We looked really good at the start of both games, but were swamped by the end by a team playing with an alien ball.
I'm not having a go at our players, they can't be expected to hold down a job and reach the top level of conditioning. But they also can't cod themselves that they're superfit - or jump down Jerry Kiernan's throat when he states the obvious.

We won the series last time, against a better team of Australians.

Australian summers, a lack of players from our best team and a vomiting bug had more to do with our lads fading as any conditioning issues. Please stop trying to mould events to suit a narrative you clearly wanted something to fit into beforehand.

fair points re playing success in the series itself.
My points are  nothing to do with our ability to beat the Australians in a made-up sport, it's about contributing to  promoting another sport which has robbed us of some of our best talent. More importantly exposing amateur GAA players to increased risk of sport in an unfamiliar, highly attritional contact sport against heavier ,presumably better conditioned full time top professionals. Even junior club GAA pre-seasons are at least 6-8 weeks long , progressively exposing Players to equip them for the rigours and risks of a game they are familiar with , against fellow amateurs with a similar level of conditioning. Yet with the rules concept , with minimal prep, we are exposing them to the unfamiliar rigours and risks of this sport against full timers, who are usually much heavier and more cynical.  it's indefensible and we need to wise up!

Fear maith - It's all well and good going gung-ho into this rubbish. Our lads who are lesser conditioned can end up with a knock that can maybe not end their career but can impair their career in the future. 

GAA people have been watching to much of the Toughest Trade and the shite Sky and AIB - kammy and jeff road to croker (fantasy) telling people in this insular sport how strong and great we are!

[Ohtoohtobe]

I wasn't basing my point on the results of the games - I was basing them on the clear evidence in front of my eyes. Even when we win this, we usually fade badly before the end.

[rrhf]

Was Tyrone's Conor Mc Kenna playing?

He's not Tyrone's anymore

[cavanmaniac]

My points are nothing to do with our ability to beat the Australians in a made-up sport, it's about contributing to  promoting another sport which has robbed us of some of our best talent. More importantly exposing amateur GAA players to increased risk of injury in an unfamiliar, highly attritional contact sport against heavier ,presumably better conditioned full time top professionals. Even junior club GAA pre-seasons are at least 6-8 weeks long , progressively exposing Players to equip them for the rigours and risks of a game they are familiar with , against fellow amateurs with a similar level of conditioning. Yet with the rules concept , with minimal prep, we are exposing them to the unfamiliar rigours and risks of this sport against full timers, who are usually much heavier and more cynical.  it's indefensible and we need to wise up!

Some people just hate this concept and that's fair enough, I used to really enjoy it whereas now I watch it and forget about it quick enough without getting too exercised, but I think you're running away with yourself a wee bit in the rhetoric stakes above.

Your alluding to 'highly attritional' and the 'rigours' and the 'risks' might have had a shred of truth about ten years ago when Aussie pole-axing was defintely de rigeur, but these days the series is largely sanitised. So much so that another chief argument of some detractors, only partly tongue-in-cheek, is that there's never any fighting any more. This in itself is used as a further stick by other detractors, tongue-not-in-cheek, to beat the concept a little more, because if people only watched it for the rows that don't happen any more, then surely we should get rid of it to hell.

The hit on Barrett aside (which was nasty, yes, but occurred in isolation, the forearm by Fyfe near the sideline looked worse than it was I think), there's seldom anything happens these days to start jumping up and down about, and anything that does happen frequently has equivalents occurring on our own playing fields anyway. You'll probably argue the toss about that but before you do, ask yourself simply and calmly whether our own players would genuinely play this game so willingly and as earnestly as we saw at the weekend if they felt they were risking life and limb or a career-ending injury every time they step on the field? Or are they all raving lunatics with barely a scrap of cop on at all at all?

The other notion, that we're promoting another sport and denuding ourselves of our best talent is flat-out farcical, jaded cliche. There's a very limited pool of Grade A, marquee talent in GAA to begin with, and only a further subset of that would be identified by AFL clubs as raw material for their game (Cavanagh yes, Gooch no etc.), and a further subset of that again that actually wants to go over there (Cavanagh no etc.). It's far from the lines shuffling off of coffin ships that you'd have us believe. What's more, what about all the guys who went out and then came home later (there are quite a few) to the actual - heavens above - benefit of their counties and clubs because of the enhanced conditioning and professional environment they had a chance to taste? There are plenty of other positives associated with the series too but they too are well worn at this stage, so I'll spare you, but whatever your read on it, the quality and competitiveness of this year's contests shows that it's a live prospect for the years ahead, the players like it, the brass are behind it so people need to dry their eyes and move on a small bit because it's here to stay.

These doomsday scenarios and dystopian rants every year over a bit of a jolly in the sun over two weekends get on my nerves a bit. There are much bigger and uglier boils much closer to home doing more damage to our game and our players and our efforts would be better directed to addressing those I think.

[Rossfan]

Good post Cavan.
Some people on this forum seem to expect the Sky to fall at any moment every day of the week.
Negative after negative about everything.
One big question from Saturday - whose ghost hit O'Shea in the face??