David Clifford has 2 won 2 minor all ireland and 2 hogans cups. Cooper didnt have a great underage record like DC. Clifford has done the business against ulster sides something which Gooch (people might argue)(never done. He never beat a Ulster team in aI final. Clifford has everything strength, pace, too footed and cool as a cucumber. Will Clifford surpass Gooch cooper to be the greatest footballer of all time and beat his scoring record?I predict today we see the start of one of the all time greats and should score 2-6 against Clare today.Sean O'Shea will also be better player than Declan O'Sullivan.
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
David Clifford and Sean O'Shea two teens who haven't had the opportunity to play U20 for their county are today making their championship debuts at senior level. How about giving them time to settle in than hyping them up on what happened at U18 level?
There are loads of examples of underage stars who never lived up to their potential at senior level. Equally, there are a number of examples of players who were unremarkable at underage(or didn't even get selected), who went on to be incredible players at senior intercounty level.
I'm sure Clifford and O'Shea will go on to be important players for Kerry, but give them a chance to settle in ffs
Let Clifford hold his place firstly before hyping him to kingdom come
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Conversely Roscommon have beaten them at every grade in AI finals, and even ended their four year Minor/U17 run last year to boot..
Jaysus last year's u17 was a stand alone competition and you can hardly add it into 4 in a row minor runs.......
That's straw clutching and no other Rossie would be trying to trumpet it in such a way..... we all were thrilled with beating Kerry in that game but don't hype it into something bigger than it was
Quote from: Syferus on June 04, 2018, 01:48:01 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Conversely Roscommon have beaten them at every grade in AI finals, and even ended their four year Minor/U17 run last year to boot..
You're on top form recently, comfortably the best wum on here.
Quote from: Orchard park on June 04, 2018, 10:09:55 AM
Jaysus last year's u17 was a stand alone competition and you can hardly add it into 4 in a row minor runs.......
That's straw clutching and no other Rossie would be trying to trumpet it in such a way..... we all were thrilled with beating Kerry in that game but don't hype it into something bigger than it was
Out of interest if Kerry were to win the Minor All Ireland this year would it be classed as 5 in a row considering the last four All Irelands they won were U18 and this years All Ireland is U17?
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Cork and Mayo are the the 2 teams with the worst AIF games lost to games played record. Mayo might even be as bad as the Galway hurlers.
So a Kerry vs Cork/Mayo is probably the most likely scenario for a Kerry win.
This is a blot on the Gooch's record, I would say. 2004 and 2006 were turkey shoots.
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Cork and Mayo are the the 2 teams with the worst AIF games lost to games played record. Mayo might even be as bad as the Galway hurlers.
So a Kerry vs Cork/Mayo is probably the most likely scenario for a Kerry win.
This is a blot on the Gooch's record, I would say. 2004 and 2006 were turkey shoots.
Ah, 12 AI final losses is a significant amount? There was some amount of suffering in the 40's and 70's for Galway supporters and lets not mention the 12 Apostles!
When is the last time Galway beat Kerry or Dublin in an AI final? In fact when is the last time they beat either in the Championship?
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2018, 04:40:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Cork and Mayo are the the 2 teams with the worst AIF games lost to games played record. Mayo might even be as bad as the Galway hurlers.
So a Kerry vs Cork/Mayo is probably the most likely scenario for a Kerry win.
This is a blot on the Gooch's record, I would say. 2004 and 2006 were turkey shoots.
Ah, 12 AI final losses is a significant amount? There was some amount of suffering in the 40's and 70's for Galway supporters and lets not mention the 12 Apostles!
When is the last time Galway beat Kerry or Dublin in an AI final? In fact when is the last time they beat either in the Championship?
Galway beat Kerry in the 1964 and 1965 finals
They beat the Dubs in 1934
On average they win an All Ireland every 15 years or so
The difference with Mayo is they do win every so often
In 1951 Mayo and Galway were tied on 3.
I have no idea about semifinals
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2018, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2018, 04:40:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Cork and Mayo are the the 2 teams with the worst AIF games lost to games played record. Mayo might even be as bad as the Galway hurlers.
So a Kerry vs Cork/Mayo is probably the most likely scenario for a Kerry win.
This is a blot on the Gooch's record, I would say. 2004 and 2006 were turkey shoots.
Ah, 12 AI final losses is a significant amount? There was some amount of suffering in the 40's and 70's for Galway supporters and lets not mention the 12 Apostles!
When is the last time Galway beat Kerry or Dublin in an AI final? In fact when is the last time they beat either in the Championship?
Galway beat Kerry in the 1964 and 1965 finals
They beat the Dubs in 1934
On average they win an All Ireland every 15 years or so
The difference with Mayo is they do win every so often
In 1951 Mayo and Galway were tied on 3.
I have no idea about semifinals
I do love when a Galwayman looks at ancient history to argue/prove a show how superior his county is to Mayo. By the way Mayo people who have one more AI than Roscommon do the same.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2018, 06:09:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2018, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2018, 04:40:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 04, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Cork and Mayo are the the 2 teams with the worst AIF games lost to games played record. Mayo might even be as bad as the Galway hurlers.
So a Kerry vs Cork/Mayo is probably the most likely scenario for a Kerry win.
This is a blot on the Gooch's record, I would say. 2004 and 2006 were turkey shoots.
Ah, 12 AI final losses is a significant amount? There was some amount of suffering in the 40's and 70's for Galway supporters and lets not mention the 12 Apostles!
When is the last time Galway beat Kerry or Dublin in an AI final? In fact when is the last time they beat either in the Championship?
Galway beat Kerry in the 1964 and 1965 finals
They beat the Dubs in 1934
On average they win an All Ireland every 15 years or so
The difference with Mayo is they do win every so often
In 1951 Mayo and Galway were tied on 3.
I have no idea about semifinals
I do love when a Galwayman looks at ancient history to argue/prove a show how superior his county is to Mayo. By the way Mayo people who have one more AI than Roscommon do the same.
Galway footballers are good when they get a team together.
If Mayo could just win one the dynamic would probably change. At this stage I'd take a Connacht Sam regardless of the county.
So Clifford's a goodun then
Quote from: JimStynes on June 04, 2018, 10:17:52 PM
So Clifford's a goodun then
Apparently so ::). Wait till the Ulster blanket gets the hold of him ;)
Quote from: illdecide on June 04, 2018, 10:27:44 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on June 04, 2018, 10:17:52 PM
So Clifford's a goodun then
Apparently so ::). Wait till the Ulster blanket gets the hold of him ;)
Heard that all last year about the same thing happening to Dublin.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2018, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 04, 2018, 10:27:44 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on June 04, 2018, 10:17:52 PM
So Clifford's a goodun then
Apparently so ::). Wait till the Ulster blanket gets the hold of him ;)
Heard that all last year about the same thing happening to Dublin.
Fair enough and true...but the Dubs are something else like
He scored 1 point from play against Clare, hardly the second coming of Gooch.
He's very accurate and clinical any time I saw him as a minor but doesn't have much pace. Cooper though had a fantastic game intelligence but that develops over time, people will just need to give Clifford time and patience.
Paul Geaney still their go to forward
Quote from: Orchard park on June 05, 2018, 03:34:36 PM
Paul Geaney still their go to forward
Yes and probably one of the most underrated forwards in the game today.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
He scored 1 point from play against Clare, hardly the second coming of Gooch.
He's very accurate and clinical any time I saw him as a minor but doesn't have much pace. Cooper though had a fantastic game intelligence but that develops over time, people will just need to give Clifford time and patience.
Interesting to see how he goes alright. Thing is he was a very big minor and used his size advantage to literally swat away smaller defenders at times. Obviously he has the skills but the physical advantage he had is now gone for the most part at senior. He'll be fine I imagine as he has the skills to make space for himself despite not being the quickest.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Galway actually still have a decent record against Kerry overall mainly because they were actually considered Kerry's bogey team at one point. It's only since the 80's that the trend reversed strongly in Kerry's favour.
Hopefully beating them in an All-Ireland U-21 semi-final last year and in the league down in Kerry this year will stop the rot going forward.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 05, 2018, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Galway actually still have a decent record against Kerry overall mainly because they were actually considered Kerry's bogey team at one point. It's only since the 80's that the trend reversed strongly in Kerry's favour.
Hopefully beating them in an All-Ireland U-21 semi-final last year and in the league down in Kerry this year will stop the rot going forward.
You are talking about 50+ years of History there! The trend happened way before the 80's!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
He scored 1 point from play against Clare, hardly the second coming of Gooch.
He's very accurate and clinical any time I saw him as a minor but doesn't have much pace. Cooper though had a fantastic game intelligence but that develops over time, people will just need to give Clifford time and patience.
The hype is silly. He could bully players at underage and played on excellent teams, he doesn't have a physical advantage at senior and Kerry are only maybe the best team in a group of six or seven teams below Dublin so it's a very different environment to be operating in. He's going to a quality player in time but even though this is a WUM thread the sentiment expressed in the OP isn't far removed from what it is elsewhere, which is incredible pressure to put on a teenager.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 05, 2018, 04:53:29 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 05, 2018, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Galway actually still have a decent record against Kerry overall mainly because they were actually considered Kerry's bogey team at one point. It's only since the 80's that the trend reversed strongly in Kerry's favour.
Hopefully beating them in an All-Ireland U-21 semi-final last year and in the league down in Kerry this year will stop the rot going forward.
You are talking about 50+ years of History there! The trend happened way before the 80's!
I didn't know we were cherry picking periods of time. Easy to twist anything doing that but I agree our record against them since the 80's has been awful. We didn't actually play them at all in championship during the 70's. Avoided each other in the early 70's when we had a very good side and by the late 70's heyday of that great Kerry side, Roscommon had taken over in Connacht.
Did galway play kerry much in the 90s? Or are we talking league too? I am not sure i can remember a championship game.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
He scored 1 point from play against Clare, hardly the second coming of Gooch.
He's very accurate and clinical any time I saw him as a minor but doesn't have much pace. Cooper though had a fantastic game intelligence but that develops over time, people will just need to give Clifford time and patience.
Yep, he's nothing like Gooch, a poor comparison.
He's already a big man though, and what he was supposed to be very good at v Clare was winning ball and laying it off. Seems to have plenty of game intelligence, not the quickest but has a burst in him, and well able to kick scores.
There's plenty of people in Kerry who think Sean O'Shea is going to be even better. As a Dub, I didnt relish him kicking over a few long range frees!
But good for both of them that Geaney is still the main man and O'Donoghue showed some signs of coming back to form. Seems the plan might be to play him as a playmaker 11.
Perhaps Dublin's biggest weakness is if you can get 1-on-1 with their full back line. They're not great man-on-man, bar Cooper maybe. But you need to play 6 forwards to stop them having a sweeper, and then that leaves the Dubs even more dangerous at the other end.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 05, 2018, 04:53:29 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 05, 2018, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 03, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Depends how many finals he plays against Cork and Mayo. Depends whether or not the Ulster crowd can leave mediocrity behind. Depends on Kerry being ready when the Dub empire is sacked.
You can add Galway to that! Kerry love playing Galway more than even Mayo!
Galway actually still have a decent record against Kerry overall mainly because they were actually considered Kerry's bogey team at one point. It's only since the 80's that the trend reversed strongly in Kerry's favour.
Hopefully beating them in an All-Ireland U-21 semi-final last year and in the league down in Kerry this year will stop the rot going forward.
You are talking about 50+ years of History there! The trend happened way before the 80's!
No it didn't actually.
Galway and Kerry were level pegging in terms of head to head c'ship games against each other until they met (once) in the 80s.
They didn't play each other again until the AI final in 2000.
It's been one way traffic since then.
Quote from: Hound on June 05, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
He scored 1 point from play against Clare, hardly the second coming of Gooch.
He's very accurate and clinical any time I saw him as a minor but doesn't have much pace. Cooper though had a fantastic game intelligence but that develops over time, people will just need to give Clifford time and patience.
Yep, he's nothing like Gooch, a poor comparison.
He's already a big man though, and what he was supposed to be very good at v Clare was winning ball and laying it off. Seems to have plenty of game intelligence, not the quickest but has a burst in him, and well able to kick scores.
There's plenty of people in Kerry who think Sean O'Shea is going to be even better. As a Dub, I didnt relish him kicking over a few long range frees!
But good for both of them that Geaney is still the main man and O'Donoghue showed some signs of coming back to form. Seems the plan might be to play him as a playmaker 11.
Perhaps Dublin's biggest weakness is if you can get 1-on-1 with their full back line. They're not great man-on-man, bar Cooper maybe. But you need to play 6 forwards to stop them having a sweeper, and then that leaves the Dubs even more dangerous at the other end.
There was one play in the highlights on TSG where he won a ball and set up Geaney with a lovely dummy. The thing was he had half a chance to shoot himself but he made the smart play and set up Geaney for a much higher percent almost tap-over effort. For a young lad of 19 on his intercounnty championship debut it was very smart/composed play.
Overall on Kerry I doubt any team will give Kerry as much space as Clare appeared to give them.
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 05, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 05, 2018, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
He scored 1 point from play against Clare, hardly the second coming of Gooch.
He's very accurate and clinical any time I saw him as a minor but doesn't have much pace. Cooper though had a fantastic game intelligence but that develops over time, people will just need to give Clifford time and patience.
Yep, he's nothing like Gooch, a poor comparison.
He's already a big man though, and what he was supposed to be very good at v Clare was winning ball and laying it off. Seems to have plenty of game intelligence, not the quickest but has a burst in him, and well able to kick scores.
There's plenty of people in Kerry who think Sean O'Shea is going to be even better. As a Dub, I didnt relish him kicking over a few long range frees!
But good for both of them that Geaney is still the main man and O'Donoghue showed some signs of coming back to form. Seems the plan might be to play him as a playmaker 11.
Perhaps Dublin's biggest weakness is if you can get 1-on-1 with their full back line. They're not great man-on-man, bar Cooper maybe. But you need to play 6 forwards to stop them having a sweeper, and then that leaves the Dubs even more dangerous at the other end.
There was one play in the highlights on TSG where he won a ball and set up Geaney with a lovely dummy. The thing was he had half a chance to shoot himself but he made the smart play and set up Geaney for a much higher percent almost tap-over effort. For a young lad of 19 on his intercounnty championship debut it was very smart/composed play.
Overall on Kerry I doubt any team will give Kerry as much space as Clare appeared to give them.
Its a feature of Div 2 teams this year it seems. Cavan gave loads of space to Donegal and were destroyed,Tipp against Cork likewise and remains to be seen how much space Cork and Roscommon will give to Galway and Kerry in the provincial finals.
Clare for the last few years have been on an upward curve and looked like a potential banana skin for some of the bigger teams.
I think the gap between the stronger and weaker counties may be growing :(
I think it's only fair at this stage that David Clifford be split in two.
Nevermind Gooch, I think Maurice Fitzgerald is the best Kerry player I've seen... Armagh were lucky that he fell out with Páidí
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 05, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
Clare for the last few years have been on an upward curve and looked like a potential banana skin for some of the bigger teams.
I think the gap between the stronger and weaker counties may be growing :(
We've hammered Clare in the league the last two years.
Where did they get this rep?
Quote from: Jinxy on June 06, 2018, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 05, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
Clare for the last few years have been on an upward curve and looked like a potential banana skin for some of the bigger teams.
I think the gap between the stronger and weaker counties may be growing :(
We've hammered Clare in the league the last two years.
Where did they get this rep?
They beat the current best team in Connacht to qualify for the AIQFs in 2016.
Clifford gave an exhitibition of shooting last sunday. Hopefully referee will watching monaghan off the ball tactics
1-4 from play against Galway
1-3 from play against Monaghan
Largely living off scraps in both games amidst disjointed Kerry performances to put it lightly.
The fella is a class act, only going to get better. A long way to go to surpass the gooch, but plenty of time to do it
He is excelling in an otherwise mediocre Kerry side.
Doesn't have the same players around him that Gooch had and I think he has frightening potential.
I'd hope the fact that Clifford is getting all the plaudits will give Geaney a kick up the arse.
Throw Donaghy into the mix and that FF line should be the stuff of nightmares for a FB line.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
I'd hope the fact that Clifford is getting all the plaudits will give Geaney a kick up the arse.
Throw Donaghy into the mix and that FF line should be the stuff of nightmares for a FB line.
Could you imagine?
Trying to prevent a twisting and turning Geaney who can go off left or right. Clifford who can beat you high or low and shoot from the next field.
Donaghy who is the best high ball winner we've ever had.
You have to get ahead of them as Monaghan did or they can annalihate you.
I couldn't believe they didn't play Donaghy v Galway---complete no brainer to play him in my opinion
D Clifford is just class
Quote from: Gold on July 23, 2018, 11:44:34 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
I'd hope the fact that Clifford is getting all the plaudits will give Geaney a kick up the arse.
Throw Donaghy into the mix and that FF line should be the stuff of nightmares for a FB line.
Could you imagine?
Trying to prevent a twisting and turning Geaney who can go off left or right. Clifford who can beat you high or low and shoot from the next field.
Donaghy who is the best high ball winner we've ever had.
You have to get ahead of them as Monaghan did or they can annalihate you.
I couldn't believe they didn't play Donaghy v Galway---complete no brainer to play him in my opinion
D Clifford is just class
I thought Donaghy was lucky to stay on the whole game, other than the knock down for the goal he barely touched the ball. Also he played most of the game around midfield, he is too slow to keep up with his man so he was a bit of a liability when Monaghan had the ball and were attacking in numbers.
He could have took the guys head off with that swinging elbow as well, could easily have been sent off.
More of a Maurice Fitz than a Gooch, insane levels either way.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
I'd hope the fact that Clifford is getting all the plaudits will give Geaney a kick up the arse.
Throw Donaghy into the mix and that FF line should be the stuff of nightmares for a FB line.
Does Clifford have the ability to bring other players into play and get the best out of them? Is he affecting the Kerry team dynamic?
I think he took the bull by the horns yesterday because he had to, but I've seen him bringing others into play in previous games and I don't think he's in anyway selfish (as young forwards can sometimes be).
Geaney saw plenty of the ball yesterday, with very little to show for it.
If he had his eye in he could have had 3/4 points from play.
Geaney is more of an out-and-out full forward for me and I would let Clifford roam out the field as he has a monster boot on him.
I would keep Geaney close to goal and have a mixture of Clifford, Donaghy & O'Donoghue rotating in and around him.
If O'Donoghue plays his way back into form he will be a massive weapon as I think he has matured a bit and would not necessarily need to be the main man.
Ideally, an in-form O'Donoghue would start with Donaghy kept in reserve for the 2nd half.
When was O'Donaghue last in form? It might be 4 years ago.
I agree that a 2 man full forward line of Geaney and Clifford is the ideal set up for Kerry with Donaghy as a plan B from the bench.
O'Donoghue is one of the most over rated footballers in the country very reliant on raw pace.
O'Donoghue has lost a yard of pace, but he's still a handful one on one for a defender.
I think if he could reinvent himself somewhat he would be a serious asset to that forward line.
He probably feels like he should be the main scoring threat, but he could do a lot of damage roaming out the wings and letting good, accurate high balls into the FF line.
You'd also fancy him to bury a goal chance.
There is a bit of a 'galacticos' feel to this Kerry forward line.
They are currently less than the sum of their parts because I'm not sure they've figured out how to work together in a proper, tight championship game where they have to work off limited possession.
Having Donaghy inside gives the attack a focus, and you get the feeling the forwards in general are happier when he's on the edge of the square.
Not sure they should be relying on him at this stage though.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 01:51:24 PM
O'Donoghue has lost a yard of pace, but he's still a handful one on one for a defender.
I think if he could reinvent himself somewhat he would be a serious asset to that forward line.
He probably feels like he should be the main scoring threat, but he could do a lot of damage roaming out the wings and letting good, accurate high balls into the FF line.
You'd also fancy him to bury a goal chance.
There is a bit of a 'galacticos' feel to this Kerry forward line.
They are currently less than the sum of their parts because I'm not sure they've figured out how to work together in a proper, tight championship game where they have to work off limited possession.
Having Donaghy inside gives the attack a focus, and you get the feeling the forwards in general are happier when he's on the edge of the square.
Not sure they should be relying on him at this stage though.
Isn't that how Kerry got the goal too?
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 23, 2018, 12:15:38 PM
When was O'Donaghue last in form? It might be 4 years ago.
When did he put his shoulder out?
Yep.
Actually, having watched the replay of the goal multiple times, it really is a thing of beauty.
Catching the ball (if he was able) wouldn't have done Donaghy any good, as he was too close to goal with men all over him.
He knew 100% what he was doing when he palmed the ball down in front of Clifford he didn't just throw a hand at it.
Then the speed at which Clifford secured possession and got it down onto his boot.
THEN, look what he had to aim at!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiybwaYW0AAeWpj.jpg)
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 02:22:53 PM
Yep.
Actually, having watched the replay of the goal multiple times, it really is a thing of beauty.
Catching the ball (if he was able) wouldn't have done Donaghy any good, as he was too close to goal with men all over him.
He knew 100% what he was doing when he palmed the ball down in front of Clifford he didn't just throw a hand at it.
Then the speed at which Clifford secured possession and got it down onto his boot.
THEN, look what he had to aim at!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiybwaYW0AAeWpj.jpg)
Very few players would have scored that goal.
The speed of thought to actually get the shot away as quick as he did and then the unerring accurate finish to match it. Very few if any other forwards in the country could have executed. The touch from Donaghy was straight from a basketball court and was clearly intended, his hands are his strength.
Love the crowd reactions in the background as well.
As much as I'm loath to admit it, Star was the one demonstrating the real skill in that move.
The goal was a target man goal at its very best. Star on his game is one of the finest exponents that I can recall of playing the target man....I love watching him. He's a gouger and an annoyance and that's what I love about him. Too often Defenders get away with bullying forwards. He bullies defenders and I love it!!
You need two things to be a successful target man in gaelic football.
Big hands and a big arse.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 03:07:44 PM
You need two things to be a successful target man in gaelic football.
Big hands and a big arse.
Absolutely!!!! As someone who played it for years I certainly had the latter...and still do🤣
Imagine the carnage you could unleash now on the edge of the square with that arse.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 03:14:11 PM
Imagine the carnage you could unleash now on the edge of the square with that arse.
I'm trying to pass on my wisdom to a few Mead men with ample arses at the minute.....they're just too honest!!!
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 02:38:13 PM
Love the crowd reactions in the background as well.
All 6 Kerry supporters. They don't deserve Clifford.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 23, 2018, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 02:38:13 PM
Love the crowd reactions in the background as well.
All 6 Kerry supporters. They don't deserve Clifford.
There was a healthy enough sprinkling of Kerry people there in fairness...
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 23, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 03:07:44 PM
You need two things to be a successful target man in gaelic football.
Big hands and a big arse.
Absolutely!!!! As someone who played it for years I certainly had the latter...and still do🤣
But your big head makes you well balanced. :D
Quote from: armaghniac on July 23, 2018, 07:35:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 23, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 23, 2018, 03:07:44 PM
You need two things to be a successful target man in gaelic football.
Big hands and a big arse.
Absolutely!!!! As someone who played it for years I certainly had the latter...and still do🤣
But your big head makes you well balanced. :D
Piss off ye cheeky fecker ;D
2-6 yesterday again. What a player Clifford is. Best young player I've ever seen and if he stays injury free god knows how good he will end up.
He might never win a senior AI.
I wonder does he regret not taking up an AFL contract now. Different class of a player and has actually lived up to the hype.
He will win an all-Ireland, and Kerry have a good team coming though they are about 3yrs away! I its the older hands who don't seem up to it at the minute! I they have problems in both lines of defence and midfield! I Geaney and O Donghue hardly lead the line this year!
He's too slow for Aussie rules I think. He will win plenty of senior All Ireland's and i would say he could end up being the first pro Gaelic footballer. Made the right call to stay here imo.
Quote from: JimStynes on August 05, 2018, 07:18:32 PM
He's too slow for Aussie rules I think. He will win plenty of senior All Ireland's and i would say he could end up being the first pro Gaelic footballer. Made the right call to stay here imo.
Is he moving up to Dublin?
Quote from: JimStynes on August 05, 2018, 07:18:32 PM
He's too slow for Aussie rules I think. He will win plenty of senior All Ireland's and i would say he could end up being the first pro Gaelic footballer. Made the right call to stay here imo.
??? Huh ?
Don't even know where to start with that one
I mean I don't think he will end up working for the Bank or doing a 9-5 job. He will effectively be a full time Gaelic footballer. I think Jason Sherlock was the closest I can remember to being a GAA star in Ireland. There have been others who have taken the odd year out to concentrate on GAA but I think Clifford could end up being the first proper GAA star in Ireland.
Quote from: JimStynes on August 07, 2018, 09:29:58 PM
I mean I don't think he will end up working for the Bank or doing a 9-5 job. He will effectively be a full time Gaelic footballer. I think Jason Sherlock was the closest I can remember to being a GAA star in Ireland. There have been others who have taken the odd year out to concentrate on GAA but I think Clifford could end up being the first proper GAA star in Ireland.
The first proper GAA star?
What about Joe Canning, Bernard Brogan, Aidan O'Shea etc etc.
What are they, milkmen? ???
Didn't Donaghy take a year out from work to focus on football? Paid for by whoever his employer was?
Yes and no. A few of the former Ulster Bank employees who took a redundancy offer, got a daycint lump sum payment. They lived off that during their year(s) off focusing on their GAA "career". Darren O'Sullivan & Karl Lacey did similar. Am going purely on interviews the players themselves gave & not any insider knowledge.
O Shea gets a new sponsored Audi every couple of months. The elite players are well looked after. Not indentured slaves to the game like Brolly would say.
Stats from how he performed in the Super 8 from DontFoul
QuoteDavid Clifford is extraordinary. Super 8s
0-02 from 2 on frees (yellow)
4-00 from 4 on goal attempts (red)
0-12 from 17 (71%) on point attempts (white = left, black = right)
That's 78% (4–14 from 23) in total scoring ~11 points more than an avg intercounty player would #Yeesh
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkGAYLSXgAACITE.jpg)
Clifford gave a exhibition of point kicking last week. Is there s better forward in the game?
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 07, 2019, 04:26:44 PM
Clifford gave a exhibition of point kicking last week. Is there s better forward in the game?
Last week as in v Clare where he kicked 0-3 1f?
Clifford cleaned out Benny Harrison and Lee Keegan and gave a exhibition of point kicking, is there a better forward in the game? Early contender for player of the year IMO.
https://www.the42.ie/david-clifford-kerry-mayo-player-watch-4724957-Jul2019/
Be interesting to see how the Kerry management deal with his personality going forward. A very strong character who takes exception to rules now and again, so I'm told.
Quote from: WhoDat on July 19, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Be interesting to see how the Kerry management deal with his personality going forward. A very strong character who takes exception to rules now and again, so I'm told.
Nonsense Clifford is a role model and great example to young lads.
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on July 19, 2019, 01:20:14 PM
Quote from: WhoDat on July 19, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Be interesting to see how the Kerry management deal with his personality going forward. A very strong character who takes exception to rules now and again, so I'm told.
Nonsense Clifford is a role model and great example to young lads.
Who says he can't be both?
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 07, 2019, 04:26:44 PM
Clifford gave a exhibition of point kicking last week. Is there s better forward in the game?
Any number of them.
Quote from: WhoDat on July 19, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Be interesting to see how the Kerry management deal with his personality going forward. A very strong character who takes exception to rules now and again, so I'm told.
What this exception to the rule? He doesn't drink or smoke,.
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on July 19, 2019, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: WhoDat on July 19, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Be interesting to see how the Kerry management deal with his personality going forward. A very strong character who takes exception to rules now and again, so I'm told.
What this exception to the rule? He doesn't drink or smoke,.
Are those two the only rules in the world?
What was your initial post about?
At this stage in his career he is the best I have seen, his strength and ability to hold off a player is unreal, he seems to anticipate the break of the ball like no other i have seen and his pace and kick accuracy are excellent. If he keeps it up over a few years he will easily earn that best ever tag.
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on July 19, 2019, 04:41:17 PM
What was your initial post about?
That he has a strong character, likes to do things his own way, can be a bit of a handful, etc. My post had nothing to do with drink or what have you, just a general attitude.
Quote from: WhoDat on July 19, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on July 19, 2019, 04:41:17 PM
What was your initial post about?
That he has a strong character, likes to do things his own way, can be a bit of a handful, etc. My post had nothing to do with drink or what have you, just a general attitude.
Apologies I took you up wrong.
Gave a exhibition of point kicking against tyrone. Wont be long when himself and Seanie Shea surpass Cillian OConnor on the scoreboard.
The Gooch wasn't ever better than Maurice Fitz within his own county.
Clifford to make dung of the dubs.MOTM and first goalscorer
Clifford has a long way to go before he can be compared to Gooch. Has the potential but not even a conversation at this stage.
Clifford was imense. Definitely a all star for no 13
Paul Murphy new Kerry captain taking over from Clifford
David giving an exhibition. Watching 47 years. This man is a god.
David Clifford.... What a performance, unreal talent.
A Munster semi-final would be a much better occasion to put in a performance than a league game against a crumbling Galway.
Quote from: greatpoint on May 15, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
A Munster semi-final would be a much better occasion to put in a performance than a league game against a crumbling Galway.
Some nonsense talked on here, the post I quoted above hits the nail in Kerry we judge our players by medals and there not Munster medals, when u look at Clifford in ten years time and he hasn't 5/6 medals then forget it when we look at him and Seany Shea, and then you compare them to gooch Spillane dara o connide Declan o Sullivan oggie Moran bomber Mickey S etc yes they all played in different eras but forget about it a. Clifford has a lot of potential as a man says he hasn't quite done it yet in Kerry terms (all Ireland medals )
I don't care of he never gets a medal he's a joy to watch... Some people be determined to suck the life out of everything
Quote from: John Egans left boot on May 15, 2021, 04:27:03 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on May 15, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
A Munster semi-final would be a much better occasion to put in a performance than a league game against a crumbling Galway.
Some nonsense talked on here, the post I quoted above hits the nail in Kerry we judge our players by medals and there not Munster medals, when u look at Clifford in ten years time and he hasn't 5/6 medals then forget it when we look at him and Seany Shea, and then you compare them to gooch Spillane dara o connide Declan o Sullivan oggie Moran bomber Mickey S etc yes they all played in different eras but forget about it a. Clifford has a lot of potential as a man says he hasn't quite done it yet in Kerry terms (all Ireland medals )
Gooch and Dec Sullivan seemed to disappear in key moments against Tyrone and Dublin.
Clifford is a better player than Gooch.
He might already be the most complete forward to play the game.
Some bit of skill.
https://mobile.twitter.com/eirSport/status/1393583281694728195
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2021, 06:03:07 PM
Some bit of skill.
https://mobile.twitter.com/eirSport/status/1393583281694728195
You think? ::)
Maurice Fitz played on poor Kerry Teams for 10yrs, was it his fault the rest round him weren't up to his standards
Great piece of composure but the defending for that goal was shocking for inter county level.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
Great piece of composure but the defending for that goal was shocking for inter county level.
Yeah, it's a good goal. But there has to be context. Scoring a goal against an already humiliated defence?
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 15, 2021, 06:52:40 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
Great piece of composure but the defending for that goal was shocking for inter county level.
Yeah, it's a good goal. But there has to be context. Scoring a goal against an already humiliated defence?
What about the context of scoring 3-6 against a top 5 team?? By any metric Galway are one of the top 5 teams in the country so it's pretty impressive overall, he is class.
Will be interesting to see how this translates to the championship but he is probably the best forward on the country right now.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2021, 06:26:32 PM
Maurice Fitz played on poor Kerry Teams for 10yrs, was it his fault the rest round him weren't up to his standards
It was a Kerry poster who brought up medals. What 'greatpoint' rightly said was that Clifford was poor against Cork last year. He was far from the only one, but his uncharacteristic multiple misses effectively cost Kerry a spot in the All Ireland semi final. Scoring 3-6 in a league game against a shambolic Galway team doesn't make up for that. Putting Cork to the sword this year and then playing well in All Ireland semi is required.
All young players will have bad games, but Clifford is an extreme talent and I'm sure he'll win multiple all stars and medals. His after match interview also showed he's completely filled out now, an impressive specimen!
Quote from: screenexile on May 16, 2021, 12:29:00 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 15, 2021, 06:52:40 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
Great piece of composure but the defending for that goal was shocking for inter county level.
Yeah, it's a good goal. But there has to be context. Scoring a goal against an already humiliated defence?
What about the context of scoring 3-6 against a top 5 team?? By any metric Galway are one of the top 5 teams in the country so it's pretty impressive overall, he is class.
Will be interesting to see how this translates to the championship but he is probably the best forward on the country right now.
By any metric? They haven't won a game since pre Covid and have been hammered in several. Time to review your metrics.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-clifford-haspotential-to-bebest-gaa-player-ever-ex-donegal-ace-brendan-devenney-40494146.html
Agree with Devanney. The best ever to play the game better than Micky Sheehy
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-clifford-haspotential-to-bebest-gaa-player-ever-ex-donegal-ace-brendan-devenney-40494146.html
Quote from: CumminsCiderLarry on June 03, 2018, 11:11:35 AM
David Clifford has 2 won 2 minor all ireland and 2 hogans cups. Cooper didnt have a great underage record like DC. Clifford has done the business against ulster sides something which Gooch (people might argue)(never done. He never beat a Ulster team in aI final. Clifford has everything strength, pace, too footed and cool as a cucumber. Will Clifford surpass Gooch cooper to be the greatest footballer of all time and beat his scoring record?I predict today we see the start of one of the all time greats and should score 2-6 against Clare today.Sean O'Shea will also be better player than Declan O'Sullivan.
Would have Clifford ahead of Mikey Sheehy, Matt Connor, Peter
Canavan , Gooch , Maurice Fitz and Pat Spillane who greatest forwards in fame.
He has no Senior AI. Until he wins one he is just another inter-county football player.
Team game.
John Divilly has one or maybe even 2 AI medals.
Ciarán McDonald hasn't any.
Quote from: macker15 on June 12, 2021, 08:24:22 AM
Quote from: CumminsCiderLarry on June 03, 2018, 11:11:35 AM
David Clifford has 2 won 2 minor all ireland and 2 hogans cups. Cooper didnt have a great underage record like DC. Clifford has done the business against ulster sides something which Gooch (people might argue)(never done. He never beat a Ulster team in aI final. Clifford has everything strength, pace, too footed and cool as a cucumber. Will Clifford surpass Gooch cooper to be the greatest footballer of all time and beat his scoring record?I predict today we see the start of one of the all time greats and should score 2-6 against Clare today.Sean O'Shea will also be better player than Declan O'Sullivan.
Would have Clifford ahead of Mikey Sheehy, Matt Connor, Peter
Canavan , Gooch , Maurice Fitz and Pat Spillane who greatest forwards in fame.
He has played only a couple of seasons of inter county football so you can't make that judgement until he finishes his career. Let's wait until the end of this summer to see where he sits relative to other top current forwards first of all before making assertions that he is the greatest ever. There is a rush to go over the top with the superlatives with a new talent but he will be judged on championship performances in big games not regulation league matches.
Last year it didn't work out largely through no fault of his own but If be surprised if Kerry don't get to at least an AI semi final this year do he will have a chance to show if he has gone up a level.
What's with the rush to declare him the best player of all time when he hasn't done nearly enough to be considered as such?
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2021, 11:10:45 AM
Team game.
John Divilly has one or maybe even 2 AI medals.
Ciarán McDonald hasn't any.
Gaelic footballers are measured on AI medals. It's a snobbery thing, usually measured by counties who win AI's.
The flick off the ground to assist burns point there was sublime
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 12, 2021, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2021, 11:10:45 AM
Team game.
John Divilly has one or maybe even 2 AI medals.
Ciarán McDonald hasn't any.
Gaelic footballers are measured on AI medals. It's a snobbery thing, usually measured by counties who win AI's.
Are or aren't?
Plenty of fantastic footballers from counties who didn't win the all Ireland and it doesn't make them any less. You look at Marty forde, Declan Browne, dermot Earley etc etc . They are well remembered.
The Dublin setup is so good that on an individual level I am not sure as many will be remembered as should be.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vincent_hogan/status/1403765356922032133?s=21
Quote from: macker15 on June 12, 2021, 11:14:10 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/vincent_hogan/status/1403765356922032133?s=21
Christ.
I thought David gave an exhibition of shooting last night. Kerry kick passing was a joy to watch. Best forwards in the country.
Is he better than Gooch, yes, nxt benchmark Fitzgerald, then when he's about 26, same age M Connor finished I make a assessment again him.
David and Co togging for UL against Galway University. Should be a good game.
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
Bound to win it this year or next!
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
Only a Mayo man could have those negative thoughts.
Quote from: lenny on February 17, 2022, 07:57:38 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
Only a Mayo man could have those negative thoughts.
Mayo must have nearly the full 15 now?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 17, 2022, 08:11:57 AM
Quote from: lenny on February 17, 2022, 07:57:38 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
Only a Mayo man could have those negative thoughts.
Mayo must have nearly the full 15 now?
Mayo have 14 players on best never to win an All Ireland team, Charlie Vernon is the 15th. Mayo players haven't been allocated a position yet as that team don't know where to player Charlie either.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
I would be shocked if Clifford retires without an All Ireland in all honesty.
With the talent they have coming through it's a matter of time.
Could well be 2022.
Last year was considered a disaster for Kerry but they took the AI champions to extra time and if a few things had went a bit differently they'd have been there or thereabouts. (Yes they didn't but it's coming and not like in 2014 when they were a poor Kerry team though they need a better defense than they have).
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
Bit like Mayo so
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
I completely disagree. We shall soon find out.
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
I would be shocked if Clifford retires without an All Ireland in all honesty.
With the talent they have coming through it's a matter of time.
Could well be 2022.
Jack O'Connor has a habit of winning the All-Ireland for Kerry the year after Tyrone won it. Kerry have a lot of improvement required in defence if they are to land Sam this year though.
putting McGeary back in defense would be a start.
Dunno what the last 10 pages have said, but looking at the title, he may well surpass the Gooch, but will he surpass Cillian O'Connor?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 17, 2022, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
I would be shocked if Clifford retires without an All Ireland in all honesty.
With the talent they have coming through it's a matter of time.
Could well be 2022.
Saying this Kerry team need to improve defensively is like saying mayo need to improve at not f**king up in all Ireland finals. They've had the same problem every year, and they haven't improved this year, there's no sign they will
Jack O'Connor has a habit of winning the All-Ireland for Kerry the year after Tyrone won it. Kerry have a lot of improvement required in defence if they are to land Sam this year though.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 05:30:11 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 17, 2022, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM
I feel like when the dust settles we could be talking about David Clifford in the "best xv never to win an all Ireland" discussion
I would be shocked if Clifford retires without an All Ireland in all honesty.
With the talent they have coming through it's a matter of time.
Could well be 2022.
Saying this Kerry team need to improve defensively is like saying mayo need to improve at not f**king up in all Ireland finals. They've had the same problem every year, and they haven't improved this year, there's no sign they will
Jack O'Connor has a habit of winning the All-Ireland for Kerry the year after Tyrone won it. Kerry have a lot of improvement required in defence if they are to land Sam this year though.
Like I said we will soon find out!
I think its kerrys to loose as well. But have a feeling that the Dubs will have a major say when they get their players back. All depends on the referees these days of course.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 05:30:11 PM
Saying this Kerry team need to improve defensively is like saying mayo need to improve at not f**king up in all Ireland finals. They've had the same problem every year, and they haven't improved this year, there's no sign they will
It's a new Kerry management with a new defensive coach and it only February a long way from the business end of the championship.
Last year i didn't see Kerry winning the All-Ireland under Peter Keane and his management it remains to be seen will that change under O'Connor who knows what it takes to win All-Irelands with Kerry.
They are hardly miles away though. Even with defensive frailties last year things could have been different were Clifford not injured. Small margins and luck.
Quote from: iorras on February 17, 2022, 05:20:41 PM
Dunno what the last 10 pages have said, but looking at the title, he may well surpass the Gooch, but will he surpass Cillian O'Connor?
Be very difficult for Cifford to surpass O'Connor as in Seanie O'Shea is a heavy scorer too and takes most of the frees for kerry.
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
I completely disagree. We shall soon find out.
Year on year the media and fans alike fall over themselves to proclaim Kerry as the Champions in waiting. This is Clifford's 5th year on the panel and there's no evidence they're any closer to winning an All-Ireland.
Surprised that some would say Clifford now better than Gooch, maybe in time he will. Has yet to achieve at Senior level, though no doubting that he's a generational talent.
Quote from: greatpoint on February 17, 2022, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
I completely disagree. We shall soon find out.
Year on year the media and fans alike fall over themselves to proclaim Kerry as the Champions in waiting. This is Clifford's 5th year on the panel and there's no evidence they're any closer to winning an All-Ireland.
Now that Dublin aren't nailed on, Kerry have a very good chance of winning the AI.
Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2022, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on February 17, 2022, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
I completely disagree. We shall soon find out.
Year on year the media and fans alike fall over themselves to proclaim Kerry as the Champions in waiting. This is Clifford's 5th year on the panel and there's no evidence they're any closer to winning an All-Ireland.
Now that Dublin aren't nailed on, Kerry have a very good chance of winning the AI.
Didn't you say the same thing last year? ;) :P
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2022, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2022, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on February 17, 2022, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
I completely disagree. We shall soon find out.
Year on year the media and fans alike fall over themselves to proclaim Kerry as the Champions in waiting. This is Clifford's 5th year on the panel and there's no evidence they're any closer to winning an All-Ireland.
Now that Dublin aren't nailed on, Kerry have a very good chance of winning the AI.
Didn't you say the same thing last year? ;) :P
Verbatim, probably! ;D
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2022, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2022, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on February 17, 2022, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2022, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
It's coming every year, they don't have it in them to do it
I completely disagree. We shall soon find out.
Year on year the media and fans alike fall over themselves to proclaim Kerry as the Champions in waiting. This is Clifford's 5th year on the panel and there's no evidence they're any closer to winning an All-Ireland.
Now that Dublin aren't nailed on, Kerry have a very good chance of winning the AI.
Didn't you say the same thing last year? ;) :P
That sort of punditry would get you a job on RTE or the Irish Independent for life ,"I think Kerry will do it this year", bound to be right once every 10 years also "I cant see Mayo doing it this year". I've just written Martin Breheny's columns for the next two years
:D ;D ;D :D
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 05:30:30 PM
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Just knew he'd be handy at basketball too. Great sportsman
Quote from: JoG2 on April 10, 2022, 05:33:33 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 05:30:30 PM
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Just knew he'd be handy at basketball too. Great sportsman
How does he compare to Michael Schumacher though?
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 06:01:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 10, 2022, 05:33:33 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 05:30:30 PM
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Just knew he'd be handy at basketball too. Great sportsman
How does he compare to Michael Schumacher though?
great point
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 05:30:30 PM
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Jordan would have killed his own granny to win and duly mopped up plenty of titles. Great basketball player but he was a bit of an asshole off the court. I don't get the comparison between Jordan and Clifford other than the fact that they were both very good at their chosen sport.
Stylistically Clifford probably isn't the most graceful of players when you compare him to the effortless style of the likes of Maurice Fitz or Shane Walsh but he is incredibly effective, a one man scoring machine. He does have the appearance of a lad that has worked really hard on his game. I think he will win several AI titles and if he stays injury free he can go on to become the greatest Gaelic footballer in memory.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 10, 2022, 06:52:35 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 05:30:30 PM
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Jordan would have killed his own granny to win and duly mopped up plenty of titles. Great basketball player but he was a bit of an asshole off the court. I don't get the comparison between Jordan and Clifford other than the fact that they were both very good at their chosen sport.
Stylistically Clifford probably isn't the most graceful of players when you compare him to the effortless style of the likes of Maurice Fitz or Shane Walsh but he is incredibly effective, a one man scoring machine. He does have the appearance of a lad that has worked really hard on his game. I think he will win several AI titles and if he stays injury free he can go on to become the greatest Gaelic footballer in memory.
Are you comparing him with Shane Walsh?
To me, there's no comparsion. I think he looks natural enough. Style of kicking were good, plus the basketball type bounce.
Skilful player but too early to say he'll be a great.
Quote from: marty34 on April 10, 2022, 07:53:25 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 10, 2022, 06:52:35 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on April 10, 2022, 05:30:30 PM
Clifford up there with Michael Jordan according to Off The Ball.
Jordan would have killed his own granny to win and duly mopped up plenty of titles. Great basketball player but he was a bit of an asshole off the court. I don't get the comparison between Jordan and Clifford other than the fact that they were both very good at their chosen sport.
Stylistically Clifford probably isn't the most graceful of players when you compare him to the effortless style of the likes of Maurice Fitz or Shane Walsh but he is incredibly effective, a one man scoring machine. He does have the appearance of a lad that has worked really hard on his game. I think he will win several AI titles and if he stays injury free he can go on to become the greatest Gaelic footballer in memory.
Are you comparing him with Shane Walsh?
To me, there's no comparsion. I think he looks natural enough. Style of kicking were good, plus the basketball type bounce.
Skilful player but too early to say he'll be a great.
No I'm just pointing out the contrast in styles. Clifford is a very skilful footballer but he can look ungainly at times but he is incredibly effective and so powerful. Walsh is like a gazelle but he doesn't have anywhere near the same output as Clifford given his level of natural ability.
https://mobile.twitter.com/gaa__joe/status/1550156145418985474?s=21&t=QagW3HmS1gx4fw9quojorg
Brolly claims Clifford is greatest player of all time.
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2022, 08:42:01 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/gaa__joe/status/1550156145418985474?s=21&t=QagW3HmS1gx4fw9quojorg
Brolly claims Clifford is greatest player of all time.
He's not yet, but he has the tools and the platform/supporting cast to be.
What a joy he is to watch! One of the greats and he's only early 20s. If he continues like this he'll surely go down as the GOAT
Quote from: JimStynes on July 24, 2022, 09:14:59 PM
What a joy he is to watch! One of the greats and he's only early 20s. If he continues like this he'll surely go down as the GOAT
Plenty of contdenors for GOAT in Ulster, some of whom never won an AI
Quote from: JimStynes on July 24, 2022, 09:14:59 PM
What a joy he is to watch! One of the greats and he's only early 20s. If he continues like this he'll surely go down as the GOAT
.
Great 12 months for Clifford. Will break all the records. He is unstoppable and expect to collect another Sam Maguire this year.
Quote from: Gael85 on January 15, 2023, 04:00:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on July 24, 2022, 09:14:59 PM
What a joy he is to watch! One of the greats and he's only early 20s. If he continues like this he'll surely go down as the GOAT
.
Great 12 months for Clifford. Will break all the records. He is unstoppable and expect to collect another Sam Maguire this year.
Hopefully he stays injury free. Probably the most naturally talented player I've seen
Clifford is a super player.
But you could not let today define his greatness.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 15, 2023, 05:21:06 PM
Clifford is a super player.
But you could not let today define his greatness.
Yep. Too many boys with Christmas bellies on the other team. Actually a good few looked the same in the intermediate game too
The best player on the Rathmore team, Spiers had a belly on him to, seemed fine
Spiers used to be a very light, fast lad when he played for Magherafelt, always a big scorer but was small for inter county. Filled out a fair bit since then.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2023, 05:43:17 PM
The best player on the Rathmore team, Spiers had a belly on him to, seemed fine
11? Very good player. 14 for Stewartstown was a tidy player too.
Gareth Devlin has been a brilliant club player in Tyrone for 15 years now. On the fringes of the Tyrone squad for a few years as well. Outside of Clifford, he was the best forward on show today in either match.
Quote from: square_ball on January 15, 2023, 06:45:14 PM
Gareth Devlin has been a brilliant club player in Tyrone for 15 years now. On the fringes of the Tyrone squad for a few years as well. Outside of Clifford, he was the best forward on show today in either match.
Yeah I was impressed with him. 2 good feet and one of those players with a good football brain
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 15, 2023, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2023, 05:43:17 PM
The best player on the Rathmore team, Spiers had a belly on him to, seemed fine
11? Very good player. 14 for Stewartstown was a tidy player too.
14 was good on the frees... what was 13 taken off for? It felt like the manager put those lads on for their last hurrah
What happens from now depends on how successful Kerry are. Gooch won 5 all Irelands, including 2 against Mayo and 2 against Cork.
Clifford may not be so lucky.
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
What happens from now depends on how successful Kerry are. Gooch won 5 all Irelands, including 2 against Mayo and 2 against Cork.
Clifford may not be so lucky.
It's Ok, Galway are the new force from Connacht and there should be a few handy AI's there, They got one handy AI already! Gooch missed out on another handy one in the early 00's! ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 15, 2023, 07:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
What happens from now depends on how successful Kerry are. Gooch won 5 all Irelands, including 2 against Mayo and 2 against Cork.
Clifford may not be so lucky.
It's Ok, Galway are the new force from Connacht and there should be a few handy AI's there, They got one handy AI already! Gooch missed out on another handy one in the early 00's! ;D
Depends what way Dublin go, don't think anyone else will beat them this year. Although think if we played them in Croker it would be a classic.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 15, 2023, 07:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
What happens from now depends on how successful Kerry are. Gooch won 5 all Irelands, including 2 against Mayo and 2 against Cork.
Clifford may not be so lucky.
It's Ok, Galway are the new force from Connacht and there should be a few handy AI's there, They got one handy AI already! Gooch missed out on another handy one in the early 00's! ;D
Kerry have been below their usual high standards since the mid 00s. They never beat that Tyrone team and they could not beat that Dublin team.
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2023, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 15, 2023, 07:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
What happens from now depends on how successful Kerry are. Gooch won 5 all Irelands, including 2 against Mayo and 2 against Cork.
Clifford may not be so lucky.
It's Ok, Galway are the new force from Connacht and there should be a few handy AI's there, They got one handy AI already! Gooch missed out on another handy one in the early 00's! ;D
Kerry have been below their usual high standards since the mid 00s. They never beat that Tyrone team and they could not beat that Dublin team.
Look how close a shadow of that Dublin team ran them last year.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 15, 2023, 07:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
What happens from now depends on how successful Kerry are. Gooch won 5 all Irelands, including 2 against Mayo and 2 against Cork.
Clifford may not be so lucky.
It's Ok, Galway are the new force from Connacht and there should be a few handy AI's there, They got one handy AI already! Gooch missed out on another handy one in the early 00's! ;D
Mayo 4 Sam.
Should Mayo not know, there no handy all-Irelands.
Clifford will be first player since JACK o'Shea to win back to back player of year awards since Jack O'Shea. Has it in the bag.
Matt Connor, Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Canavan 3 best forwards I ever saw. Clifford is above them now and not in his prime yet.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41193340.html?fbclid=IwAR11-r9CbIng2ULXISzafucj3QP2r1dqa9LtzSimvwwiaYFIvF7rxKPhsbs
Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 30, 2023, 02:48:24 AM
Clifford will be first player since JACK o'Shea to win back to back player of year awards since Jack O'Shea. Has it in the bag.
Matt Connor, Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Canavan 3 best forwards I ever saw. Clifford is above them now and not in his prime yet.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41193340.html?fbclid=IwAR11-r9CbIng2ULXISzafucj3QP2r1dqa9LtzSimvwwiaYFIvF7rxKPhsbs
remains the best forward I've seen and a real shame his career ended so soon.
David Clifford scored 12-128 (164) in 28 championship games. Clifford currently aged 24
Matt Connor Scored 13-142 (181) in 26 championship games. 24 years old his career ended
Matt Conor a different class.
Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 30, 2023, 02:48:24 AM
Clifford will be first player since JACK o'Shea to win back to back player of year awards since Jack O'Shea. Has it in the bag.
Matt Connor, Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Canavan 3 best forwards I ever saw. Clifford is above them now and not in his prime yet.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41193340.html?fbclid=IwAR11-r9CbIng2ULXISzafucj3QP2r1dqa9LtzSimvwwiaYFIvF7rxKPhsbs
I think Clifford is an absolute genius, the best in the land by a country mile but none of the 3 lads mentioned would have missed the opportunities he had at vital moments yesterday. The lad is human and the pressure placed on him by Kerry and the wider GAA public is immense. All this GOAT nonsense and expectations placed every time he laces his boots are beginning to become unrealistic to live up to. He didn't play well yesterday and they lost. Had he played well they would most likely have won - that's the burden he carries every time he walks in a pitch. Yesterday showed that the burden of responsibility can grow as you get older and it can weigh heavily. Canavan was a master at carrying that burden and he did it for years without ever failing in those most vital of moments. I'm not specifically referring to the post I quoted here as Buzz didn't refer to Clifford as being the greatest of all time but it's been said very often in recent weeks. I reckon we let Clifford's career pan out before anointing him, there'll be plenty more clutch moments for him and I'm pretty sure he'll be up to the task.
Think Kerry have had an over reliance on him this season. Others never really stepped up. He didn't have a great game yesterday but there were still moments in the game that if someone playing in another county put in the performance he did they'd be raving about them. He had a bad game by his own standards but there were still some bits of play that were fantastic and he pretty much took on the Dubs backs on his own those last 10 mins. He put it all on his back and unfortunately for him and Kerry he missed the chances that he pretty much created on his own.
In terms of legacy, we're about 10 years injuries permitting from really placing him in the right place among the greats but right now he's box office and in a time when Gaelic football isn't at it's best, he's the one the kids want to be like and I think he's great for the game.
From Kerry GAA stats
Top ten Kerry scorers in the championship
1.Colm Cooper 85 games Scored 23-283(Dr. Crokes) 352pts (4.1 pts per gm)
2.Mike Sheehy 49 games Scored 29-205(Austin Stacks) 292pts (6 pts per gm)
3.Maurice Fitzgerald 45 games Scored 12-204(St. Mary's, Cahersiveen) 240pts (5.3 pts per gm)
4.Sean O'Shea 31 games Scored 6-173(Kenmare) 191pts (6.1 pts per gm)
5.Dara Ó'Cinneide 54 games Scored 11-150(An Ghaeltacht)183pts (3.4 pts per gm)
6.Pat Spillane 56 games Scored 19-122(Templenoe)179pts (3.2 pts per gm)
7.Bryan Sheehan 66 games Scored 6-161(St. Mary's, Cahersiveen)179pts (2.7 pts per gm)
8.Paul Geaney 53 games Scored 14-134(Dingle)176pts (3.3 pts per gm)
9.David Clifford 29 games Scored 12-131 (Fossa) 167pts (5.7 pts per gm)
10.Mike Frank Russell 56 games Scored 8-130(Laune Rangers)154pts (2.8 pts per gm)
Clifford is the best forward in the game but he misfired on Sunday. It had very little to do with Fitzsimmons, on another day he would have scored 1-6. The constant talk of being the goat or a genius is just over the top hyperbole used by pundits to grab headlines but it sets a standard that he is judged against every time he plays. So far he has coped very well but it can't be easy for any amateur sportsman to deal with that level of scrutiny on his every performance.
Paul Flynn doubling down on his tweet claiming that Fitzsimmons got the better of Clifford. Originally he stated that he got smoked! Which wasn't actually true at all, I thought Fitzsimmons was fairly poor but then Clifford will make most defenders look poor. Fitzsimmons was no better than McKaigue in the semi final (in actual fact McKaigue probably got closer to him), the only difference being that Clifford shot the lights out that game. I don't understand why Kerry didn't land a few longer balls in on top of Clifford similar to the Galway final last year. I think he had the beating of Fitzsimmons one on one inside and at the very least it would have made them think.
It took a late night tweet for Flynn to drop the David Brent style management speak and give an actual opinion even it was done through blue tinted glasses.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 01, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Paul Flynn doubling down on his tweet claiming that Fitzsimmons got the better of Clifford. Originally he stated that he got smoked! Which wasn't actually true at all, I thought Fitzsimmons was fairly poor but then Clifford will make most defenders look poor. Fitzsimmons was no better than McKaigue in the semi final (in actual fact McKaigue probably got closer to him), the only difference being that Clifford shot the lights out that game. I don't understand why Kerry didn't land a few longer balls in on top of Clifford similar to the Galway final last year. I think he had the beating of Fitzsimmons one on one inside and at the very least it would have made them think.
It took a late night tweet for Flynn to drop the David Brent style management speak and give an actual opinion even it was done through blue tinted glasses.
Hampsey did better than the pair of them. Tyrone smoked on all other fronts
Paul Flynn usually very PC and never seems to want to say a thing out of place too but I suspect he did that when boozing.
All things considered Fitzsimmons was ok but had plenty of backup too. That plus an off day.
As you say Hampsey probably did the best job.
Clifford is an unbelievable talent but to label him the best player of all time is a bit over the top at the minute imo. The expectations set for him game in game out are are very high.
There is too much pressure put on him - he's only human. The level he was at against Derry you just can't reach every day.
Fitzsimmons is one of those players whom I've always thought isn't that super, a potential weaklink and could be easily exposed by the right man, when you look back now, it's never really happened and he's very very rarely had a poor game, solid as they come.
Clifford is obviously a huge talent but I've never understood the GOAT talk for such a young fella with the majority of his career ahead of him.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 01, 2023, 04:36:45 PM
Fitzsimmons is one of those players whom I've always thought isn't that super, a potential weaklink and could be easily exposed by the right man, when you look back now, it's never really happened and he's very very rarely had a poor game, solid as they come.
Clifford is obviously a huge talent but I've never understood the GOAT talk for such a young fella with the majority of his career ahead of him.
I have a friend who was an intercounty forward for 10 years. Says he is the best player he's ever been marked by. Make what you will of that.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 01, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Paul Flynn doubling down on his tweet claiming that Fitzsimmons got the better of Clifford. Originally he stated that he got smoked! Which wasn't actually true at all, I thought Fitzsimmons was fairly poor but then Clifford will make most defenders look poor. Fitzsimmons was no better than McKaigue in the semi final (in actual fact McKaigue probably got closer to him), the only difference being that Clifford shot the lights out that game. I don't understand why Kerry didn't land a few longer balls in on top of Clifford similar to the Galway final last year. I think he had the beating of Fitzsimmons one on one inside and at the very least it would have made them think.
It took a late night tweet for Flynn to drop the David Brent style management speak and give an actual opinion even it was done through blue tinted glasses.
A look at the conditions the two games were played in would probably tell you why. Weather did neither set of forwards any favours on sunday but probably effected Kerry more as it took the long ball out of their armoury. Also when operating in the tightest of spaces, as Clifford has to, a greasy ball is gonna reduce the cleanness of the strike of the ball and hence your accuracy.
Matt Connor was actually 26 when he was in a car accident Christmas 84, think he was the nfl top scorer for, 5/6 straight seasons.He was the only player I held above Clifford but even though Clifford was poor on Sunday he already at this level if not now above it.
Fitzsimmons was OK had a good game, but Clifford got away 4 scores under less pressure he had against Derry and missed, (2 were very poor and most forwards (Mayo aside) wouldn't missed) had they went over, we be saying Fitzsimmons struggled on him.
Quote from: passedit on August 01, 2023, 06:24:52 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 01, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Paul Flynn doubling down on his tweet claiming that Fitzsimmons got the better of Clifford. Originally he stated that he got smoked! Which wasn't actually true at all, I thought Fitzsimmons was fairly poor but then Clifford will make most defenders look poor. Fitzsimmons was no better than McKaigue in the semi final (in actual fact McKaigue probably got closer to him), the only difference being that Clifford shot the lights out that game. I don't understand why Kerry didn't land a few longer balls in on top of Clifford similar to the Galway final last year. I think he had the beating of Fitzsimmons one on one inside and at the very least it would have made them think.
It took a late night tweet for Flynn to drop the David Brent style management speak and give an actual opinion even it was done through blue tinted glasses.
A look at the conditions the two games were played in would probably tell you why. Weather did neither set of forwards any favours on sunday but probably effected Kerry more as it took the long ball out of their armoury. Also when operating in the tightest of spaces, as Clifford has to, a greasy ball is gonna reduce the cleanness of the strike of the ball and hence your accuracy.
I think that's a fair argument regarding weather conditions particularly the use of the bounced kick pass in front of Clifford which they seemed reluctant to supply him with. Part of the reason was the slow Kerry build up from defence to attack and also a reluctance to kick from deep on the greasy surface. However the long ball fired in on top of Clifford I felt could have at least been tried a few times by Kerry. He is good in the air and Fitzsimmons was gambling a lot by marking him 2/3 yards in front. But they brought little variation to their game.
Quote from: Armamike on August 01, 2023, 04:26:04 PM
Clifford is an unbelievable talent but to label him the best player of all time is a bit over the top at the minute imo. The expectations set for him game in game out are are very high.
Clifford is a brilliant player , and he'll probably get better.
But I still rate Maurice Fitzgerald higher. He had everything. He made the game look so easy , and he looked like he had all the time in the world when in possession of the ball. And the things he could do with a ball was unbelievable. It's just a pity Kerry was in the doldrums for a lot of his county career
I think Clifford is a different type of player. He is the Haaland of Gaelic football. He has single handled dragged a fairly average Kerry to an all Ireland and only for a complete one off poor performance he would have had 2 in a row. I think he is always worth going to see and whilst I don't expect Kerry to be back in the mix for a year or two I can see him going on to win 2 or 3 all Irelands in the future.
Fitzgerald, never scored remotely near as much from play, granted he played half his career on poor to average kerry team.
Quote from: rrhf on August 01, 2023, 09:58:26 PM
I think Clifford is a different type of player. He is the Haaland of Gaelic football. He has single handled dragged a fairly average Kerry to an all Ireland and only for a complete one off poor performance he would have had 2 in a row. I think he is always worth going to see and whilst I don't expect Kerry to be back in the mix for a year or two I can see him going on to win 2 or 3 all Irelands in the future.
I would expect that Kerry would be seen as the main challengers at this stage next year?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
Fitzgerald, never scored remotely near as much from play, granted he played half his career on poor to average kerry team.
He also would have played a lot further from goal a lot of the times too.
Paudie Clifford is very under rated. When he doesn't fire Kerry are usually a lot worse. This is tbh a good part of what happened towards the end against Dublin and a good part of the reason why Derry got so close. A dirty player yes but a good one. (Jack McCaffrey really put him on the back foot and the yellow killed him).
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 09:44:14 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
Fitzgerald, never scored remotely near as much from play, granted he played half his career on poor to average kerry team.
He also would have played a lot further from goal a lot of the times too.
Watched a re-run of the '92 Munster Final a few years ago. He was playing wing forward, and spent most of his time a long way from goal. He wasn't even taking the frees initially. Took Jack O'Shea to miss a couple of handy ones before he got to take them.
IIRC he played anywhere from 8 to 15.
People have such high standards and expectation of David Clifford now that his deemed poor/off days like last Sunday would be more than decent for many other forwards.
David Cliffford's stats from last Sunday totted up by Journalist Pat Nolan
Made 21 plays (9, 12).
Scored 0-3 (0-1f).
Directly assisted 1-1.
Fouled for a converted free.
Completed one kickpass, leading directly to a goal.
Completed eight handpasses, one leading directly to a point.
Nine solo runs.
One tackle, resulting in a turnover.
Turned over once.
One fumble.
Four wides.
Dropped one shot short.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 02, 2023, 05:38:50 PM
People have such high standards and expectation of David Clifford now that his deemed poor/off days like last Sunday would be more than decent for many other forwards.
David Cliffford's stats from last Sunday totted up by Journalist Pat Nolan
Made 21 plays (9, 12).
Scored 0-3 (0-1f).
Directly assisted 1-1.
Fouled for a converted free.
Completed one kickpass, leading directly to a goal.
Completed eight handpasses, one leading directly to a point.
Nine solo runs.
One tackle, resulting in a turnover.
Turned over once.
One fumble.
Four wides.
Dropped one shot short.
Disagree that this would be decent for other forwards. Imagine another forward like Paul Geaney missed 5 shots and had another couple of turnovers - especially in key periods going down the stretch - they would rightly be criticised.
If he had kicked 0-2 from play and set-up 1-2 alone, and had 2 or 3 wides / turnovers that would have been a good game
Quote from: inroundthesquare on August 02, 2023, 08:36:23 PM
Disagree that this would be decent for other forwards. Imagine another forward like Paul Geaney missed 5 shots and had another couple of turnovers - especially in key periods going down the stretch - they would rightly be criticised.
If he had kicked 0-2 from play and set-up 1-2 alone, and had 2 or 3 wides / turnovers that would have been a good game
Paul Geaney off the top of my head missed 1-2 on Sunday, goal chance early on, point efforts that went wide and off the post and general view was he had a decent game however he doesn't have the high expectation of David Clifford to be judged on.
Here there a no. of great forwards that feel his pain, when you on a team with 3 or so great forwards, teams struggle, as they can't man mark or cover space for all. When it's only 1 like Clifford, McGuigan, McManus, O'Neill, it's alot harder
Seems David is an excellent golfer too.
The Gooch played with better forwards and beat Mayo and Cork for 80% of his all Irelands. He also played fewer matches per season.
Austin Stacks Fossa IFC semi-final has been some game. 0-21 each. David Clifford scored an incredible point to take it to penalties here.
Fossa win 3-2 on pens.
David Clifford equaliser with the last kick at the end of ET.
https://x.com/tomasoruanaidh/status/1700932081440735541?
Quote from: clarshack on September 10, 2023, 07:21:31 PM
David Clifford equaliser with the last kick at the end of ET.
https://x.com/tomasoruanaidh/status/1700932081440735541?
Unreal player, best that has ever played.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 01, 2023, 07:13:49 PM
Matt Connor was actually 26 when he was in a car accident Christmas 84, think he was the nfl top scorer for, 5/6 straight seasons.He was the only player I held above Clifford but even though Clifford was poor on Sunday he already at this level if not now above it.
Matt Connor said himself in a interview that he was 25 at the time of the car accident and 24 for his last championship game for Offaly.
Quote from: ck on September 10, 2023, 08:20:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 10, 2023, 07:21:31 PM
David Clifford equaliser with the last kick at the end of ET.
https://x.com/tomasoruanaidh/status/1700932081440735541?
Unreal player, best that has ever played.
Is it really that good of a point? Ball gets threw to him for the kick as well. Didn't even try to hand pass.
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 11, 2023, 01:46:27 AM
Quote from: ck on September 10, 2023, 08:20:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 10, 2023, 07:21:31 PM
David Clifford equaliser with the last kick at the end of ET.
https://x.com/tomasoruanaidh/status/1700932081440735541?
Unreal player, best that has ever played.
Is it really that good of a point? Ball gets threw to him for the kick as well. Didn't even try to hand pass.
Yes. Yes it was
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 11, 2023, 07:19:42 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 11, 2023, 01:46:27 AM
Quote from: ck on September 10, 2023, 08:20:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 10, 2023, 07:21:31 PM
David Clifford equaliser with the last kick at the end of ET.
https://x.com/tomasoruanaidh/status/1700932081440735541?
Unreal player, best that has ever played.
Is it really that good of a point? Ball gets threw to him for the kick as well. Didn't even try to hand pass.
Yes. Yes it was
It was a good point but not out of this world.
However I think the game situation adds a lot of context - it was in injury time in the second half of extra-time.
From the reports I've seen it was a fiercely competitive game throughout.
Also I'm not sure what the weather was like in Killarney yesterday but if it was anything like where I was - it was likely hot and humid possibly with thundershowers - just horrible conditions for playing ball. Throw in the fact that he had already scored 12 point up to then 9 of them from play.
Also from what I know of Kerry club football this is the equivalent of David beating Goliath or a Division 4 intercounty team beating the likes of Kerry or Dublin.
Stacks have won the most county championships in Kerry and Fossa have never won anything prior to the Cliffords.
I think I give plenty of credit to the lad, Dr Crokes about 2/3 mile down the road and he stuck playing with what was a Junior fball team. I seen so many others transfer .
No need to in Kerry, you get to play Senior with an area team.
But never win a senior all-Ireland club. He could with the club down the road.
I'd say he'll get by without one of them ;)
He's already won a Junior one with his OWN CLUB, and will likely win an Inter one as well.
He could join Kilmacud if he really wants a Senior one.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 11, 2023, 08:21:44 PM
But never win a senior all-Ireland club. He could with the club down the road.
Since 1996 only one Kerry Club has won a Senior Club All Ireland Final.
That's one title in 27 years.
Playing for a Kerry Senior club does not guaranteed AI club success.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 11, 2023, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 11, 2023, 08:21:44 PM
But never win a senior all-Ireland club. He could with the club down the road.
Since 1996 only one Kerry Club has won a Senior Club All Ireland Final.
That's one title in 27 years.
Playing for a Kerry Senior club does not guaranteed AI club success.
Which tells us the current Kerry club format makes it easier for their club teams to win the Junior and intermediate All Ireland titles and harder to win the senior AI?
Fossa I don't think strong enough to win a inter club all-Ireland, without the Clifford's they wouldn't have beat Stewartstown, only other stand out player for them was their tall No.15.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2023, 12:43:00 AM
Fossa I don't think strong enough to win a inter club all-Ireland, without the Clifford's they wouldn't have beat Stewartstown, only other stand out player for them was their tall No.15.
Whoever wins the Kerry Intermediate Final will win Munster at a canter. Rathmore last year won the Munster Semi by 8 points, Final by 10 points and All-Ireland semi by 9 points. The Munster champions are scheduled to play Connacht this time around so it will depend who comes out of the West to see can stop the Kerry champions getting to Croke Park. On the other side of the draw Clonoe are red hot favourites to win Tyrone and Ulster and a Fossa v Clonoe All-Ireland Final if it were to happen would be tight (and spicy). Matt Rennie the Fossa midfielder was outstanding against Austin Stacks so they have obviously other players apart from the Cliffords. They are a very big physical side and will be hard to stop again this year.
This thread was started 5 years ago when Clifford was in his late teens. Considering the hype then (and now) and the burden on such a young man's shoulders, it's testament to the man that he has lived up to the hype and delivered for both club and county year after year. Surpassed the Gooch imo
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 11, 2023, 10:54:24 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 11, 2023, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 11, 2023, 08:21:44 PM
But never win a senior all-Ireland club. He could with the club down the road.
Since 1996 only one Kerry Club has won a Senior Club All Ireland Final.
That's one title in 27 years.
Playing for a Kerry Senior club does not guaranteed AI club success.
Which tells us the current Kerry club format makes it easier for their club teams to win the Junior and intermediate All Ireland titles and harder to win the senior AI?
Probably a fair enough summary. There's only 8 Senior clubs (and 10 divisional sides) in Kerry SFC now and almost everyone realises it should be pushed up to 10 clubs which would have a big knock on effect at Intermediate and Junior level.
Croke park are saying no to it though. They are saying 16 team only is going to be a rigid rule for SFC in every county. Which is absolutely stupid if you ask me. In Cork for example there are 245 clubs and Croke park are saying the same rule should apply there as to Leitrim with 20 odd clubs.
Similar to the minor age grade debacle, the people making decisions in Croke park are far, far removed from the realities on the ground and making decisions that can have a detrimental effect on clubs and players. Kerry are not going to sacrifice the quality of SFC or the Divisional structure that has served us so well over the years, so until Croke park take their head out of their ar5e then the admitted imbalance in Kerry Intermediate and Junior winners will remain.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 14, 2023, 01:05:33 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 11, 2023, 10:54:24 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 11, 2023, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 11, 2023, 08:21:44 PM
But never win a senior all-Ireland club. He could with the club down the road.
Since 1996 only one Kerry Club has won a Senior Club All Ireland Final.
That's one title in 27 years.
Playing for a Kerry Senior club does not guaranteed AI club success.
Which tells us the current Kerry club format makes it easier for their club teams to win the Junior and intermediate All Ireland titles and harder to win the senior AI?
Probably a fair enough summary. There's only 8 Senior clubs (and 10 divisional sides) in Kerry SFC now and almost everyone realises it should be pushed up to 10 clubs which would have a big knock on effect at Intermediate and Junior level.
Croke park are saying no to it though. They are saying 16 team only is going to be a rigid rule for SFC in every county. Which is absolutely stupid if you ask me. In Cork for example there are 245 clubs and Croke park are saying the same rule should apply there as to Leitrim with 20 odd clubs.
Similar to the minor age grade debacle, the people making decisions in Croke park are far, far removed from the realities on the ground and making decisions that can have a detrimental effect on clubs and players. Kerry are not going to sacrifice the quality of SFC or the Divisional structure that has served us so well over the years, so until Croke park take their head out of their ar5e then the admitted imbalance in Kerry Intermediate and Junior winners will remain.
This comment is fair enough. Kerry have the best championship system for giving good players a high level of competitive football.
It's up to Croke Park to come up with a solution to the Intermediate and Junior AI club fiasco.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 14, 2023, 05:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 14, 2023, 01:05:33 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 11, 2023, 10:54:24 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 11, 2023, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 11, 2023, 08:21:44 PM
But never win a senior all-Ireland club. He could with the club down the road.
Since 1996 only one Kerry Club has won a Senior Club All Ireland Final.
That's one title in 27 years.
Playing for a Kerry Senior club does not guaranteed AI club success.
Which tells us the current Kerry club format makes it easier for their club teams to win the Junior and intermediate All Ireland titles and harder to win the senior AI?
Probably a fair enough summary. There's only 8 Senior clubs (and 10 divisional sides) in Kerry SFC now and almost everyone realises it should be pushed up to 10 clubs which would have a big knock on effect at Intermediate and Junior level.
Croke park are saying no to it though. They are saying 16 team only is going to be a rigid rule for SFC in every county. Which is absolutely stupid if you ask me. In Cork for example there are 245 clubs and Croke park are saying the same rule should apply there as to Leitrim with 20 odd clubs.
Similar to the minor age grade debacle, the people making decisions in Croke park are far, far removed from the realities on the ground and making decisions that can have a detrimental effect on clubs and players. Kerry are not going to sacrifice the quality of SFC or the Divisional structure that has served us so well over the years, so until Croke park take their head out of their ar5e then the admitted imbalance in Kerry Intermediate and Junior winners will remain.
This comment is fair enough. Kerry have the best championship system for giving good players a high level of competitive football.
It's up to Croke Park to come up with a solution to the Intermediate and Junior AI club fiasco.
The problem is that Croke Park only have a limited power to force counties to adopt better structures.
Even if counties aren't going to adopt divisional teams, they should be looking at Kerry to see what other improvements they could take for their county structures.
To make it a more level playing field in the provincial and All-Ireland Junior and Intermediate series rename the current Kerry Intermediate Championship to Senior 2 (like in Dublin), the Premier Junior then becomes Intermediate and Junior stays as Junior. However this will never happen as the No. of titles Kerry clubs would win would be reduced.
Quote from: clarshack on September 14, 2023, 08:03:40 PM
To make it a more level playing field in the provincial and All-Ireland Junior and Intermediate series rename the current Kerry Intermediate Championship to Senior 2 (like in Dublin), the Premier Junior then becomes Intermediate and Junior stays as Junior. However this will never happen as the No. of titles Kerry clubs would win would be reduced.
Nah. You're either a Senior club or you're not. Simple as.
The obvious and common sense solution would be to allow structures that have worked well for decades to continue - I.e: divisional teams in Kerry. Let them increase the number of Senior clubs, which everyone agrees is needed and everyone benefits.
Size of Kerry, there should be 12-16 senior teams as is the case in many a smaller county. Get show up that they are very strong at Inter and Junior as they playing against lesser graded teams but get badly shown up against a team of equal grading. Hard to believe Glen were in intermediate football 10/12yrs bck and couldn't get out of Derry.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 15, 2023, 08:21:39 PM
Size of Kerry, there should be 12-16 senior teams as is the case in many a smaller county. Get show up that they are very strong at Inter and Junior as they playing against lesser graded teams but get badly shown up against a team of equal grading. Hard to believe Glen were in intermediate football 10/12yrs bck and couldn't get out of Derry.
You clearly don't understand how the Kerry system works.
Know excately how it works, what the point in a divisional team which can be a mixture of 5/6 teams. Not really what the GAA had in mind. If you played equal graded teams at lower levels you wouldn't win too many. Imagine the 11th team in Dublin Div 1 playing Intermediate football.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 15, 2023, 09:30:57 PM
Know excately how it works, what the point in a divisional tram which can be a mixture of 5/6 teams. Not really what the GAA had in mind. If you played equal graded teams at lower levels you wouldn't win too many. Imagine the 11th team in Dublin Div 1 playing Intermediate football.
What is the point of Divisional teams? Seriously. If I have to answer that then forget it.
Yeah answer it, what to find players that otherwise be missed?.
I'd say it's to give every player in Kerry a chance of Senior football while keeping very competitive Club Championships.
Also the bonus of pissing off Nordies ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2023, 12:05:20 PM
I'd say it's to give every player in Kerry a chance of Senior football while keeping very competitive Club Championships.
Also the bonus of pissing off Nordies ;D
Kerry and Kilkenny are ruthless. Kilkenny doesn't have a football team. Kerry has a club system where the level is more or less consistent in order to have the highest level of competition in order to benefit the County team. Kerry and Kilkenny are strategic. Guess which 2 counties are top of the all Ireland list for hurling and football.